Apocalypse shopping

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folkhero
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby folkhero » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:39 pm UTC

If you are going to have potatoes as a staple of your diet, you will definitely want some fat to mix with them. Potatoes have a pretty bad texture if they don't have some fat mixed with them, which is why butter and sour cream are common condiments for potatoes. Cooking oil will probably work fairly well to mix with mashed potatoes, or you can hash the potatoes and fry them in oil, just make sure they don't run out.

Pigs can be a useful animal for turning food scraps and various things that you don't want (such as looters) to eat into something you do want to eat. The problem being that they would be a net energy loss if too much of their diet is consists of food that you would be eating.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 pm UTC

NeilFann wrote:Bike is a good call. I've got one but am short on puncture repair kits and that would be a single point of failure.


There are solid bicycle tires. It's more work to ride the bicycle, but they never ever go flat.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:59 pm UTC

There's lots of old John Deere manual and low-powered devices for farming, including small tillers, potato planters, potato pickers, ditch witchers, etc etc, that make hand farming easier. You can get them at auctions for less than fifty bucks.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby farnsworth » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

folkhero wrote:Pigs can be a useful animal for turning food scraps and various things that you don't want (such as looters) to eat into something you do want to eat. The problem being that they would be a net energy loss if too much of their diet is consists of food that you would be eating.
Pig fat can be rendered into biodiesel. Keep that in mind.

You, sir, name? wrote:
NeilFann wrote:Bike is a good call. I've got one but am short on puncture repair kits and that would be a single point of failure.


There are solid bicycle tires. It's more work to ride the bicycle, but they never ever go flat.
If you have solid tires, you would need shock absorbers or a bicycle seat with springs. A bumpy road will make you sore really quickly.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:16 pm UTC

farnsworth wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:There are solid bicycle tires. It's more work to ride the bicycle, but they never ever go flat.
If you have solid tires, you would need shock absorbers or a bicycle seat with springs. A bumpy road will make you sore really quickly.


Shock absorbers are just another failure point. If you want a bicycle that lasts, it's not going to be a bicycle that's comfortable. You're looking at something similar to a military bicycle (solid steel frame, single gear, spokes that are twice as thick as regular ones). You can ride these things to hell and back and they won't break.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby fizzgig » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:36 pm UTC

NeilFann wrote: Anyone know how long dry seeds last? And are the seeds of plants you've grown likely to be fertile? I'd heard that garden shops breed them infertile to keep you coming back.


I think how long the seeds last depends on what type they are and how you keep them. If you buy them from a place that sells heirloom (or I think organic) varieties, then you will be able to save the seeds and use them for your next crop.

You can also get bike tyres that are neither solid nor require tubes. They're called tubeless tyres, oddly enough. It's still a problem if you put a hole in them, but they're a bit hardier than tubes, and possibly a bit easier to repair if you do get a hole, because you can repair them from the inside? This is pure speculation on my part though, as I use latex sealant in mine, which automatically seals any holes I might get. Of course the down side of that is that you need a ready supply of sealant, which may or may not be easier to get than tubes.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby ikrase » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:07 am UTC

If you are going to be able to build your own infrastructure(i.e. electric power from solar or wind, or something) you might want a lathe and a forge. Then you can fix both your own stuff and other people's after replacement parts rapidly run out.
Modify a small lathe to be powered with a treadle, the old way?

if you will be alone, build an alarm device to wake you up in case of danger. Can be simple stones and triplines or a technological artifact.

What about solar wristwatch? maybe if you hoard the rechargeable batteries for when they wear out?

Get hard copies of the Following books:
Phillip K. Dick's Encyclopedia of Practical Recopies and Processes http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Encyclopedia-Of-Practical-Receipts-And-Processes/
If there Is No Doctor (third-world medical care book)
Merck Manual of Med. Information

Hoard pre-apocalypse or loot pharmaceuticals.
The rest is all about rebuilding civilization.

If interested in fast civilization reboot from an incomplete apopcalypes,, you may want to try to hardcopy or local-copy as many datasheets (for ICs, equipment, motors, etc) as you can.
If one can get a little bit of infrastructure together (i.e. good wind power array) you might want to have a system to archive and hardcopy data from looted Web servers, to build a library out of the ruins of the Internet. Hoard all types o fmedia players. (would this even work?)
Make sure to have a lot of paper and a way to make writing instruments, or get some dip pens.

Build a system to provide well-regulated DC and AC at various voltages from crappy homemade AC or DC. Have on hand some new computers (laptop for low infrastructure? or desktop for parts availabilty? plus some older ones.
Library would be valuable, to you and others.
Get a voltmeter, an oscilloscope if you can. Hack to run on crappy DC?
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Marauder_Pilot » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:27 am UTC

yawningdog wrote:6. I like the bicycle idea, I wish I had thought of it. But if we're shooting for the post-apocalypse cliche (And who doesn't want to do that?) Then you need either a Harley Davidson Sportster or a big dirt bike.


Why a Sportster?

Also, big dirt bike aren't always the best idea. I ride a Kawasaki KLR650, a dual-sport bike, and while it's great for dirt roads, it takes a skilled rider to manover it at any sort of speed down dirt trail-it's powerful, and you can easily go around with two people and a hundred pounds of gear on it, but it's weight make it a tricky proposition on a dirtbike trail. I'd have one for distance travel, or moving through a city, but not for pure off-road travel (Unless it was across a reasonably flat, open pace-plains or desert would be just fine). For that, I'd take one of the smaller eudros, a Honda CRF230 or Yamaha WR250 or KTM XT250.

On that note, buying a 4x4 vehicle would be good too. I'd recommend a Jeep Wrangler/CJ of some sort. Fuel efficiency isn't great, but as long as you're only using it to move heavy stuff occasionally (And move it to wherever the hell you want to), it won't be a big deal. More importantly, they're very, very common and very, very easy to work on if something goes wrong. They're like Legos for adults-the original military models were built to be assembled by a GI with a spanner and a rifle butt, and they haven't changed since then.

Plus, with a little mechanical know-how and a trip to a junkyard, anything with an engine is an instant generator-just add one high-test junkyard alternator to an appropriate output shaft. Hook one up to the drive chain on a bike or a driveshaft on a truck, and rig up a collection of old car batteries in parallel for a bank and you're set to go.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:22 am UTC

http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=powe ... hant&hl=en
if you have the money, something like this could be invaluable, and it's not even that expensive.

it takes 6 hours to fully charge it by dynamo, but it can also be charged by DC, so you could hook it up to solar panels or a wind turbine, or even a rain/water (since you're on a spring, that would be quite effective, all water you use and all waste water could be redirected to go past a turbine) turbine (it would probably make sense to set up all 3, no reason to not have redundancy) but the greatest advantage it has is it has 230V AC output as well as 12V DC and 5V USB, so you'd be able to run basically anything you can now, for at least a short amount of time.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Dhes » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:57 am UTC

Depending on the size of the apocalypse (what happened, what percentage if any died) food (at least in a western country) shouldn’t be a problem the first year or so. Just make sure you loot all the bottled water and canned goods when everybody else is busy looting TV’s and stuff like that.

If you have to be on the move, it’s nice to have an E-reader (E-ink not LCD), they are light weight and can hold a lot of books (for entertainment and information). Most (if not all) e-readers charge trough a USB connection, USB power is easy to get/make, you can even get it from 2 AA batteries.

It’s still a good idea to have at least a few essential books on paper.
If got a nice Polytechnic pocket book that has fact and figures on Math, Physics, Optics, Chemistry, Electronics and material properties
Next to this maybe a book on basic medicine and general survival.

*Disclaimer for any spelling mistakes I didn’t catch
I’m dyslexic, so I tent tot pull things way out of contacts.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Ptolom » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:40 pm UTC

A pocket ref would probably useful. Less so outside of America as it uses US units, but there are also conversion tables. A set of solar panels and a Lead-acid battery could provide power for a long time. Batteries need replacing, but I imagine they'd be easy to come by.
Lots of good quality tools, from farming gear to electronics stuff.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Pandorly » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:42 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:
Pandorly wrote:I'd definitely go with crossbow over guns; not nearly as messy upon impact
Very wrong. Bows and crossbows kill by opening a vein or artery and bleeding the animal to death, unless you hit a lung, brain or kidney. If you hit a kidney or brain, yea, it'll be a quick and relatively clean death, but it would also be so with a small caliber firearm. If you hit a lung, you now a slowly dying animal supping wet breaths and bleeding and probably trying to run away. If you hit anywhere else you have a bleeding animal trying to run away or struggling and hemorrhaging. Firearms can cause the same kind of deaths, but they are also more likely to cause hydrostatic shock or aneurysms. Ballistic trauma for both bullets and arrows (or bolts) is a pretty complex science, and blanket statements are difficult to make, but for the most part bullet deaths are cleaner, quicker and less painful than bolt or arrow deaths.

Ideally, prey would be shot in one of the major organs, preferably the heart or the brain, to minimise the struggle and mess and cause death more quickly. I did mention that it would be quieter, less complex and without the same depletion of ammunition a gun would cause. Also, I live in Ireland and unless you're from a rural area, you can't purchase any form of firearm so a gun just wouldn't be feasible for me. I've only seen a real one once in my life so I wouldn't have a hope of keeping up with the maintenance and repair necessary.

AvatarIII wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=powerplus+elephant&hl=en
if you have the money, something like this could be invaluable, and it's not even that expensive.

I just watched the episode of Breaking Bad where Jesse leaves the keys in the ignition of the camper for two consecutive days which drains all the battery and they get stuck in the desert; I was just coming to this thread to emphasise the importance of a hand-wind jump starter! It occurred to me that a camper van could be a good investment. It would mean a nomadic existence would be possible, and if there were anarchic raiders and looters it would be easier to evade them by keeping on the move constantly. It would make animal haulage difficult and crop cultivation more difficult but on a small scale some food production would be possible.

Also, I forgot music. It's in the same category as literature in that it's non-essential but in terms of recreation it's hugely important. Aside from musical instruments (I have a several string instruments, a tin whistle and a harmonica), a non-digital music device like a minidisc or cassette player (walkman?) would be pretty handy, with the relevant discs/tapes. I'd say my laptop will hold up for a few years and after that the hard drive might be salvageable but after that I certainly don't want to be without familiar music.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby stevey_frac » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:52 am UTC

When the zombie apocalypse happens, I'll have the most fun.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Pandorly » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:10 am UTC

Arguably, yes. But do you have this house?
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby stevey_frac » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:20 am UTC

Why buy a house like that, when you can buy ammo by the truckload for a fraction of the price?!

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Dason » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:30 am UTC

stevey_frac wrote:Why buy a house like that, when you can buy ammo by the truckload for a fraction of the price?!

Because some of us need sleep.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby ikrase » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:41 am UTC

To protect against rampaging starving people stealing your crops, you might grow crops that are not edible right out of the field.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby NeilFann » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:28 am UTC

Brilliant people.

The wind up power cell is one of the best suggestions to date. I'm looking for a guide on how long it would last with a full wind up but it it looks good I might stick one in storage. Music is a definate concern - life without music would not be good so one of these with some spare ipods could get me a few years at least.

A lot of you are working on the assumption of the availability of fuel. I'm not - this could be a major apocalypse spark in my view. Therefore not campervans or motorbikes. I'm going to stick with making my home defendable. My next project is to build a cellar at home so I have room to store the apocalypse survival gear + tonnes of dried food.

Airgun v Bow and arrow/crossbow? What's best for pinging squirrels and rabbits for someone who's never used one?

My real hope for security is not to get noticed. I'm not that isolated but can your average looters tell a row of carefully cultivated potatoes from the rampant weeds that wil grow everywhere? I hope not. Valid point on crops that are not visably food. That's an argument for potatoes against fruit trees - I had been contemplating an orchard but that would be pretty obvious!

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby AvatarIII » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:50 pm UTC

i believe the wind up thing i posted contains a car battery type thing a quick google search shows that car batteries are typically 40 Ampere-hours.

air rifle vs bow and arrow for a beginner? clearly gun would be easier, but relies on you having pressurized air.

as for cultivating potatoes in a line, why not cultivate them in a squiggle? :lol:

also, a single fruit tree wouldn't be too bad, and not too obvious to passers by, we have a plum tree and it has a huuuuge yield, an orchard might be a bit obvious though.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Yakk » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:02 pm UTC

There are hand-pumped air rifles. In fact Lewis and Clark used air rifles when doing their cross-north-america trip (so they wouldn't have to carry enough powder to last the entire trip).
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Kang » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:27 pm UTC

Since I've seen this one today and it's fairly relevant:
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby folkhero » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:44 pm UTC

NeilFann wrote: My real hope for security is not to get noticed. I'm not that isolated but can your average looters tell a row of carefully cultivated potatoes from the rampant weeds that will grow everywhere? I hope not. Valid point on crops that are not visably food. That's an argument for potatoes against fruit trees - I had been contemplating an orchard but that would be pretty obvious!

If their lives depended on it, I don't think it would be wise to underestimate them.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby ikrase » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:20 am UTC

That's another option, though I was thinking more of grains and things that must be harvested and threshed. There are also things like cassava, which is actually poisonous if not prepared properly (the preparation is easy IIRC but it does need to be done. ) One does of course have to balance extra workload with security. I like the idea of stealth farms - one could take some hints from people growing illegal drugs.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby folkhero » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:39 pm UTC

I saw this and immediately thought of this thread.
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:24 pm UTC

the best thing to have is one you already got: that tool between your ears.

knowledge, experience, and good judgement is better than a warehouse full of survival equipment.

one thing i didn't see mentioned is tools.

hand tools, maybe a few power ones if you can afford the power.

a good carry kit is important in case you have to leave your residence.

-water filter

-5 mre meals.

-swiss army knife

-leatherman tool (with needlenose pliers and wire cutters)

-larger defensive/tactical/bushman knife (handy for brush, larger woodworking, defense, etc.)

-camelback/backpack with water.

-small first aid kit

-map of your local area

-small am/fm radio

-option: if you are a ham radio operator, carrying one will be a godsend.


also, if you have any friends in the area, make plans ahead of time to make sure you have other places to go so you are not stranded out in the chaos.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby flickering_candle » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:33 pm UTC

What most surprised me about the suggestions listed was a lack of simple mechanical fasteners. Basic carpentry supplies (hammer/nails, hand drill/screws/screwdriver) are kind of included in the tools some people mentioned, but other things like rope, strong synthetic strings and (cliche because it is so often true) duct tape are not. Synthetic strings are especially useful, being strong enough to hold heavy (static) loads, and the ends of a cut piece can be melted to keep it from unraveling. A few years back I had a plentiful supply and found myself using it around my apartment frequently; I suspect it is one of those things that tend not to be thought of as a solution unless it is readily available. Rope and synthetic strings become more useful if your apocalyptic survival plan includes rural or sparsely settled regions, but I would suggest making sure you have some on hand even if it does not.

The other suggestion I would make is to do some stockpiling of inclement weather goods (clothes for sun/rain/snow/winter, extra blankets, insect netting, etc). Some of this will depend on where you live, but many (non-zombie) apocalyptic scenarios have some effect on the weather, at least in the short term, often from dust or ash kicked up into the atmosphere (nuclear war, comet/meteor impact, massive volcanoes, etc). Even if your particular apocalypse leaves the sun shining and the seasons in place, it's still a good idea to have some extra supplies for inclement weather. Clothes and blankets wear out, and while some repair is possible with sewing kits and the like, any (new) children and friends may need supplies beyond what was sufficient for your original family/tribe. Sunscreen and insect repellent do not have that long a shelf life, unfortunately ( I've mostly seen 1-2 years quoted), so wide-brimmed hats and sun-protective clothing are needed for areas where the sun is a threat, and insect netting for the home is a must where nocturnal-insect-vector parasites are already common.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:39 pm UTC

flickering_candle wrote:What most surprised me about the suggestions listed was a lack of simple mechanical fasteners. Basic carpentry supplies (hammer/nails, hand drill/screws/screwdriver) are kind of included in the tools some people mentioned, but other things like rope, strong synthetic strings and (cliche because it is so often true) duct tape are not. Synthetic strings are especially useful, being strong enough to hold heavy (static) loads, and the ends of a cut piece can be melted to keep it from unraveling. A few years back I had a plentiful supply and found myself using it around my apartment frequently; I suspect it is one of those things that tend not to be thought of as a solution unless it is readily available. Rope and synthetic strings become more useful if your apocalyptic survival plan includes rural or sparsely settled regions, but I would suggest making sure you have some on hand even if it does not.

The other suggestion I would make is to do some stockpiling of inclement weather goods (clothes for sun/rain/snow/winter, extra blankets, insect netting, etc). Some of this will depend on where you live, but many (non-zombie) apocalyptic scenarios have some effect on the weather, at least in the short term, often from dust or ash kicked up into the atmosphere (nuclear war, comet/meteor impact, massive volcanoes, etc). Even if your particular apocalypse leaves the sun shining and the seasons in place, it's still a good idea to have some extra supplies for inclement weather. Clothes and blankets wear out, and while some repair is possible with sewing kits and the like, any (new) children and friends may need supplies beyond what was sufficient for your original family/tribe. Sunscreen and insect repellent do not have that long a shelf life, unfortunately ( I've mostly seen 1-2 years quoted), so wide-brimmed hats and sun-protective clothing are needed for areas where the sun is a threat, and insect netting for the home is a must where nocturnal-insect-vector parasites are already common.



i like that thing about having good cordage.
also, i may add, 550 cord is your friend.

and, get it in a neutral colr such as brown, black, or grey. probably all those colors.

best to not attract attention to something that you don't want other people tampering with.

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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Yakk » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:24 pm UTC

flickering_candle wrote:Sunscreen and insect repellent do not have that long a shelf life, unfortunately ( I've mostly seen 1-2 years quoted)

Zinc Oxide. Indefinite shelf life!
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby philsov » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:35 pm UTC

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.as ... InCategory

The THRIVE™ 1 Year Food Supply comes complete with 84 #10 (gallon size) cans of grains, fruits, veggies, protein & beans, dairy, and baking essentials. With over 4,800 servings and many foods with a shelf life of up to 25 years, this package will give you variety, nutrition, and peace of mind.

12 month food supply for 1 Person
6 month food supply for 2 People
3 month food supply for 4 People
Shipment arrives in 14 separate boxes
Grains and rice have a shelf life of up to 30 years
Freeze-dried foods have a shelf life of up to 25 years
Dehydrated foods have a shelf life of up to 15 years
Simple rehydration instructions, recipes, and helpful tips are included on each can
4,866 total servings
84 gallon-sized cans
This THRIVE™ 1 Year 1 Person Food Storage package contains 84 #10 (gallon size) cans. See below for specific package contents.

Grains:

8 Cans of Instant White Rice (48 servings per can)
12 Cans of Hard White Winter Wheat (44 servings per can)
3 Cans of 6 Grain Pancake Mix (46 servings per can)
2 Cans of Elbow Macaroni (25 servings per can)
Vegetables:

6 Cans of Dehydrated Potato Chunks (42 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Sweet Corn (46 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Green Peas (41 servings per can)
1 Can of Dehydrated Chopped Onions (45 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Chopped Onions (45 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Broccoli (52 servings per can)
Fruits:

2 Cans of Organic Apple Slices (48 servings per can)
2 Cans of Freeze-Dried Strawberries (45 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Blueberries (50 servings per can)
1 Can of Freeze-Dried Blackberries (49 servings per can)
2 Cans of Freeze-Dried Raspberries (48 servings per can)
Dairy:

6 Cans of Powdered Milk (43 servings per can)
3 Cans of Chocolate Drink Mix (48 servings per can)
Proteins/Beans:

The taste and texture of TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein) is consistent with real meat, making it a great addition to vegetarian diets

3 Cans of Bacon TVP (47 servings per can)
3 Cans of Beef TVP (44 servings per can)
3 Cans of Chicken TVP (45 servings per can)
2 Cans of Taco TVP (42 servings per can)
6 Cans of Pinto Beans (49 servings per can)
1 Can of Black Beans (49 servings per can)
2 Cans of Lima Beans (49 servings per can)
3 Cans of Lentils (51 servings per can)
6 Cans of Whole Eggs (236 servings per can)
Cooking Basics:

2 Cans of White Sugar


All for the low, low price of $800. I think they do free delivery too.
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Tomlidich
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:53 pm UTC

the above looks interesting. i will have to see if i can get that for my family.
of course i do just have some grain that i bought and stuck in vacuum sealed metal canisters.

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Feddlefew
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Feddlefew » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:49 pm UTC

If you're going to plant a medicanal herb garden, I'd recommend carefully going through the medical literature to find the herbs that have actual effects, few harmful side effects, and don't have finicky/very narrow dosages. Planting a willow tree around where you plan on living after the end is a good idea; trying to make homemade digitalis is not. You should also try to get you hands on some basic reusable lab supplies and try to find easyish ways to extract the active ingredients from the plants

If you can set up an incubator and obtain some good specimens, you might be able to grow your own antibiotics.
My spelling is abysmal. Just saying.

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Tomlidich
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:08 pm UTC

Feddlefew wrote:If you're going to plant a medicanal herb garden, I'd recommend carefully going through the medical literature to find the herbs that have actual effects, few harmful side effects, and don't have finicky/very narrow dosages. Planting a willow tree around where you plan on living after the end is a good idea; trying to make homemade digitalis is not. You should also try to get you hands on some basic reusable lab supplies and try to find easyish ways to extract the active ingredients from the plants

If you can set up an incubator and obtain some good specimens, you might be able to grow your own antibiotics.


i would be careful about trying to incubate antibiotics. if you get a harmful growth mixed in and don't notice it you can make matters worse

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LaserGuy
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

Here's a few things that I'd probably want....

Tools - hammer, nails, screws, screwdrivers, sandpaper, measuring tape, duct tape... basically all of your standard everyday maintenance stuff. An axe and hatchet. Some lengths of rope and a ladder maybe. A couple pairs of good shears and scissors. A wheelbarrow probably would be useful, and they're pretty indestructible.
Knives - Probably about six of various sizes and functions would be good. Swiss army knife, hunting knife, machete, good serrated knife. Get a couple of whetstones and learn how to properly sharpen them and your axe.
Sewing kit and extra thread
Extra clothes - be prepared for the extreme weather of your area, or even worse in case you need to travel or something. Good hiking boots and/or work boots are essential. Work gloves, a hat and a couple extra pairs of sunglasses would all be good too. Stuff that you can clear brambles or broken glass with. Heavy rain gear--maybe some of those plastic ponchos or something. If you have kids, keep sizing in mind.
Extra blankets, sleeping bags, a tent and a small tarp.
Contraceptives probably wouldn't be a bad idea, particularly if you are a woman or have women in your household. I'm not sure if any are particularly reliable if unused for extended periods though. Some sorts of reusable feminine hygiene products would be a good idea if you're a woman as well.
Cleaning supplies--soaps, maybe some shampoos or household cleaners like bleach.
Fire-making supplies of various types. Waterproof matches, flint/steel.
Growing some form of Hemp (or Cannibus) is probably not a bad idea. The fibres from these plants, is super-useful for making clothes, ropes, oils, to name a few and the seeds/oils edible. They grow pretty fast, so a small garden of them is a renewable supply of a number of useful products. [edit]Note, that it is probably illegal to own these plants, even the types that aren't typically used for smoking, in the United States. Depends on your jurisdiction otherwise.[/edit]
If you have space, a horse is probably among the best investments that you can make.
Books. In particular, a detailed book of local fauna and flora is probably going to be a big asset. Generic reference books of every type you can get your hands on.
Mosquito netting, if you're in that part of the world.
Large plastic containers with tight-fitting lids of various sizes for storage purposes.
Some sturdy cooking supplies--pots, ladles, spoons probably being the most important.

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Feddlefew
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Feddlefew » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

folkhero wrote:
NeilFann wrote: My real hope for security is not to get noticed. I'm not that isolated but can your average looters tell a row of carefully cultivated potatoes from the rampant weeds that will grow everywhere? I hope not. Valid point on crops that are not visably food. That's an argument for potatoes against fruit trees - I had been contemplating an orchard but that would be pretty obvious!

If their lives depended on it, I don't think it would be wise to underestimate them.

Plant some deadly and bittersweet nightshade in the vicinity. The looters will probably wonder why you're cultivating poisonous plants, but your potatoes will be safe(r). Also works with tomatos, to a point.

Tomlidich wrote:
Feddlefew wrote:If you're going to plant a medicanal herb garden, I'd recommend carefully going through the medical literature to find the herbs that have actual effects, few harmful side effects, and don't have finicky/very narrow dosages. Planting a willow tree around where you plan on living after the end is a good idea; trying to make homemade digitalis is not. You should also try to get you hands on some basic reusable lab supplies and try to find easyish ways to extract the active ingredients from the plants

If you can set up an incubator and obtain some good specimens, you might be able to grow your own antibiotics.


i would be careful about trying to incubate antibiotics. if you get a harmful growth mixed in and don't notice it you can make matters worse


Yeah.... I forgot how hard it would be to keep a sterile lab after the end, but most of the antibiotics I can think of come from fungi or are synthesized, and synthesizing antibiotics requires more equipment and technical knowledge than isolating them.
My spelling is abysmal. Just saying.

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Tomlidich
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:48 pm UTC

yeah, your best bet as far as getting rid of infections would be naturally occuring substances, like maybe garlic.

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Feddlefew
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Feddlefew » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:12 pm UTC

....?

What. :shock:

Penicillin is a naturally occurring substance. Garlic won't save you from raging infections. And... Well...

Erm...

Vodka and other high-proof alcohols can be used to sterilize things?
My spelling is abysmal. Just saying.

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Tomlidich
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:15 pm UTC

penicillin, while naturally occuring, is still mold.
most modern penicillin undergoes pretty rigourous tests to make sure it is safe.

and i mean day to day, if you have a raging infection, you did something wrong.

edit: also, the high alcohol stuff yes can be used for sterilization, pain killers, flammable stuff, etc.

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Feddlefew
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Feddlefew » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:25 pm UTC

It's a last-resort type thing- if you need it, you're screwed without it, so the risks would probably outweigh the benefits. Make-your-own also assumes you have access to medical-quality samples (or got lucky searching for moldy cantaloups) and and know how to make the fungus produce the antibiotic. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get nasty infections, especially if you get an open wound or semi-regularly come in contact with other people in areas with poor sanitation.
My spelling is abysmal. Just saying.

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Tomlidich
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby Tomlidich » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:38 pm UTC

you may be better off just storing and possibly scavenging production medical supplies. less of a risk to yourself.

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SummerGlauFan
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Re: Apocalypse shopping

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:27 am UTC

Something that complex would mean you need prior knowledge of how to do it. Read up a lot before hand, maybe even practice it (grow some samples, get the tested) all well in advance of an apocalypse. I for one don't know the first thing about growing penicillin, including what it even looks like.
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