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parkaboy
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hello hypocracy!

Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:29 am UTC

so everyone is all "yay Live Earth is great!" because it was a giant concert with a lot of big names to raise money for a decent cause.

This concert was brought to you in part by Al Gore. Way to put on a good show, eh?

http://www.liveearth.org/

now take a look at the list of artists involved in this show.
http://live-earth.awardspace.com/live-earth-artists

just off the top of your head, how many of these artists were denounced and censored (via those little black and white stickers, warning lables and even outright editing under the threat of limited distribution) ((not officially as far as i'm aware of but have you ever bought a cd from walmart? yeah. edited to hell b/c they wont carry it otherwise)) by al and tipper when the PMRC ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Mu ... rce_Center ) was established? a whole freaking lot. Maybe not in the original "attack", but in the lingering effects if nothing else.

(eat THAT paragraph, grammar nazis)

so i'm getting this image of my head of al and tipper raving about censorship and then going "oh, erm, we can use this to make money? WELLLLLLlllll.... i guess it IS for a good cause.... well o-kay i guess..." and for some reason it just doesnt sit right with me.
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Postby EvanED » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 am UTC

And did any of the bands there play (during the concert) any of the songs that were the cause of those "explicit lyrics" labels and such?
Last edited by EvanED on Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Castaway » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:33 am UTC

Umm... that was the most retarded thing I probably have read all week (beating out Boyz 2 Men on a wedding schedule). Just because they want to keep children from screaming profanities (not passing judgment on whether that's good or bad) does not make Al Gore any less of a grown man who is allowed to condone people who swear. The two are not even slightly similar. Also, these artists arent being exploited by anyone but themselves. Do you know how much publicity they're getting for Live Earth? A shitload. Politicians would be crazy not to jump on the bandwagon, especially for a cause.
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Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:37 am UTC

silly me, how dare i have a problem with dishonest (and that includes hypocrits) politicians by now. i should know better that to expect more. *rolleyes*

and i'm sure they are getting great publicity and i'm sure a lot of the artists knew what they were doing when they signed up for the deal but that isnt the point of the post.

the point was that in MY opinion something about it FEELS wrong.

not that they should all die and go to hell and let the earth burn with them.

fuck me for having an opinion, i'll never give one out again.
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Postby wocket » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:38 am UTC

Seriously, the PMRC went a bit nutso at its height, but all Tipper wanted was a sticker saying "hey, your 10 year old shouldn't be listening to this".
She even admitted to liking Prince (whose song "Darling Nikki" started the whole kerfuffle).

EDIT: Also, wow, you are getting quite butthurt over something that's not really a big deal. Yes, you have an opinion, but other people have opinions that contradict yours, and we have just as much of a right to voice ours as you do to voice yours.

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Postby Castaway » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:41 am UTC

But you're also giving a lot of butthurt for something that isn't a big deal.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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Postby Oort » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:42 am UTC

I'm with castaway, I don't really have a problem with this. Letting certain artists appear at his concert isn't that bad, even if he did disaprove of some of their lyrics.

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Postby Bakemaster » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:14 am UTC

News flash, everybody! Politics is still politics! Who knew!?
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Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:20 am UTC

meh *shrugs* you guys are all entitled and right in your opinions.

then again, as you said, so am i.

i just feel a little discouraged that it seems like i'm the ONLY person who feels this way. the obvious "you cant PROVE an opinion" out of the way, that vantage point certainly does make one feel that they are wrong.

good way to put it, bm.
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Postby EvanED » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:24 am UTC

apocralypse wrote:i just feel a little discouraged that it seems like i'm the ONLY person who feels this way. the obvious "you cant PROVE an opinion" out of the way, that vantage point certainly does make one feel that they are wrong.


My personal feeling is it would be hypocracy if Al Gore recruited the bands to play the songs that got them the explicit labels, then he encouraged kids to watch.

It's not like the Explicit Lyrics says that the music by a band is bad, or that people shouldn't listen, or anything like that. It's a warning that some songs on it are, depending on your opinion as a parent, unfit for children.

Until then, I have no problem with it.

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Postby hotaru » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:29 am UTC

most politicians don't care about what's right or wrong. they care about what will get them the most votes.
that should clear up any apparent hypocrisy.
also, if you want to talk about hypocrisy, why not bring up this?

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Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:32 am UTC

gaaar! i cant open the link at work.
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Postby tessuraea » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:51 am UTC

hypocrite
hypocrisy

Unless there's a regional spelling thing I don't know about.

Oh, and I have no issue at all with people promoting explicit lyrics labels or media rating systems, and then collaborating with artists who produce explicit media...

I mean, I like some pretty interesting erotic and fetish art, but I wouldn't want it to be in with the Dr. Seuss books.

"Mommy, why is that man tied up?"

Edit to add: Oh, and Al Gore's not running for anything.
Last edited by tessuraea on Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:57 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:56 am UTC

my oops on the spelling. its another one of those brain fogging nights. i didnt do that one on purpose.

funny you should say that about dr suess....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Lady_Godivas

the story i got at the bookstore was that his wife had it banned from reprint, which is why the book was labled at $150 there and kept in a glass case. might not be accurate.

*edit* also not to say this is fetish art by any means, but the example brought it to mind.
Last edited by parkaboy on Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tessuraea » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:59 am UTC

Hah! I want that. :)

I only corrected the spelling because of all the common spelling mistakes on the intertubes, that one is my absolute least favorite. Drives me mad.
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Postby Bakemaster » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:12 am UTC

I'm not sure how I feel about being nicknamed "BM"...
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Postby parkaboy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:12 am UTC

i was just being lazy and using it as an identifier. it probably wont stick.
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Postby tessuraea » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:16 am UTC

Better come up with something else quickly. I won't ever call you "BM" but others might...

Bakey?

BakeM?

Dunno... Bakester...
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Postby une see » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:18 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about being nicknamed "BM"...


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Postby EvanED » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:20 am UTC

apocralypse wrote:i was just being lazy and using it as an identifier. it probably wont stick.


Ha. It wouldn't had you not said that.

I won't contribute, but I will watch and laugh ;-)

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Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:04 am UTC

I can see where you're coming from, but maybe it is a good thing? That he is willing to lay aside his own agenda on the explicit lyrics thing in order to make as much money for the Live Earth thing as he can.

Also, how much say did they actually have in what bands played? I was of the opinion that they just set up the egenral framework for Live Earth, but different people were running the individual events.

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Postby TheTankengine » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:19 am UTC

apocralypse wrote:i just feel a little discouraged that it seems like i'm the ONLY person who feels this way. the obvious "you cant PROVE an opinion" out of the way, that vantage point certainly does make one feel that they are wrong.


You are not the only one, believe me.

Government censorship is wrong.
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Postby Phenriz » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:54 am UTC

TheTankengine wrote:
apocralypse wrote:i just feel a little discouraged that it seems like i'm the ONLY person who feels this way. the obvious "you cant PROVE an opinion" out of the way, that vantage point certainly does make one feel that they are wrong.


You are not the only one, believe me.

Government censorship is wrong.


yep, i feel the same way.

Just because a portion of people here are drinking the Gore-aide doesn't mean everyone is a "believer".

Just because they're politicians/celebrities doesn't give them a "say-one-thing-do-another-and-get-away-with-it" free card. I get called out on my mistakes and idiocy on a daily basis, and i'm no one important.
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Postby Oort » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:03 am UTC

Considering that all the artists were at the concert voluntarily, and that (to my knowledge) they didn't play songs containing "suggestive" lyrics, I don't see the problem. Gore didn't insult the artists, he just didn't want those particular songs in his concert. What's the problem?

EDIT: If you don't like the PMRC itself I get that, I just don't see how it conflicts with this concert in particular.

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Postby darry » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:00 am UTC

government censorship is largely wrong, but censorship and content warnings are unrelated - i think everyone agrees that film classifications are sensible. as for live earth, surely the goal of the events is far more important than any other issues surrounding them? who cares if a few people have to put aside their differences, it's not really that big a deal. the only real hypocrisy i thought was that every concert was held in a huge venue, with bands being flown in on jets, massive P.A. systems and huge lighting rigs everywhere... saving energy, cutting carbon emissions? hmm.

despite this, the awareness that it could potentially raise is probably larger than the damage caused.
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Postby lesliesage » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:30 pm UTC

What's wrong with hypocrisy? If it's good enough for Jeeesus, it's good enough for me.

Anyway, at least Al has his priorities in order. Environment before social control.

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Postby EvanED » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:44 pm UTC

darry wrote:government censorship is largely wrong, but censorship and content warnings are unrelated - i think everyone agrees that film classifications are sensible.


Well, a sensible idea anyway. I'm not convinced that the current implementation is sensible.

I'm also not totally convinced that a gov't mandated content warning is sensible.

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Postby darry » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:57 pm UTC

i'm in england, so i can't speak for america, but over here content rating is handled pretty well, and there are independent bodies that regulate the majority of it. and while i'm not a huge al gore fan, at least he's doing something to flag up a very important topic.
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Postby TheTankengine » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:18 pm UTC

darry wrote:i think everyone agrees that film classifications are sensible.


The concept of classification is okay as general guidelines to parents, but the actual process of how it is done is ridiculous. I guess you've never seen This Film Is Not Rated.
darry wrote:the only real hypocrisy i thought was that every concert was held in a huge venue, with bands being flown in on jets, massive P.A. systems and huge lighting rigs everywhere... saving energy, cutting carbon emissions?

The Arctic Monkeys refused to participate in the concerts because (I'm paraphrasing, don't remember the exact quote) "the stage lights alone can power 10 houses". They also said the entire concept is extremely hypocritical.
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Postby Phenriz » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:31 pm UTC

lesliesage wrote:What's wrong with hypocrisy? If it's good enough for Jeeesus, it's good enough for me.


that'd be a nice counter if i were christian. Seeing as how i'm not, i could care less if Jeesus was or wasn't.

Anyway, at least Al has his priorities in order. Environment before social control.


Do as we (global warming fundies) say, not as we (all the celebrities with their names attached to it) do.

I'd say social control is well in effect here, more than anything else.
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Postby lesliesage » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:06 pm UTC

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Postby OCR » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:13 pm UTC

apocralypse wrote:silly me, how dare i have a problem with dishonest (and that includes hypocrits) politicians by now. i should know better that to expect more. *rolleyes*


They have honest politicians now? WHERE? I want one!
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Postby Phenriz » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:31 pm UTC

lesliesage wrote:a joke my friend, a joke!

I agree totally. I obviously have a Machiavellian streak in me... worrisome.


Sorry i didn't catch it ;)
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Postby TheTankengine » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:37 pm UTC

lesliesage wrote:Clinton has my approval to represent whatever idiot majority will elect her if she can do so while backing pro choice, gay rights, etc.


Right, because video game violence and censorship is clearly more important than a real war with billions of dollars spent and thousands of people dying every single week.
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Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:05 pm UTC

TheTankengine wrote:
lesliesage wrote:Clinton has my approval to represent whatever idiot majority will elect her if she can do so while backing pro choice, gay rights, etc.


Right, because video game violence and censorship is clearly more important than a real war with billions of dollars spent and thousands of people dying every single week.

NOW you understand! About time...

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Postby ehiunno » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

hotaru wrote:most politicians don't care about what's right or wrong. they care about what will get them the most votes.
that should clear up any apparent hypocrisy.
also, if you want to talk about hypocrisy, why not bring up this?


qfgj and because everyone ignored the second half of that post.

You could also discuss the amount of energy live earth used.

I really dont see a lot of hypocrisy in his band usage though. meh

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Postby QuantumTroll » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:35 pm UTC

What's wrong with carbon offsets? As long as they're not fake or stupid (like planting temperate forests), they put money in places where it can do a lot of good.

Alternative energy research, the purchase and retirement of carbon credits, what's wrong with that?

Yeah, it looks hypocritical to have a big honking house with bay windows and whatnot while tooting the climate change horn, but offsetting with carbon credits is a valid way for rich people to contribute to the solution. It's lazy, it looks bad, but it's not really bad. Better than nothing, anyway . :P

Once the people in power (read governments and corporations) agree that action will be taken, events like LiveEarth and traveling slideshows will cease to be helpful. Right now we still need to convince everyone that we need action. That includes motivating those who already believe in climate change to get off their butts, conserve power, stop driving, and purchase carbon offsets. Live Earth attempts to do that, but I can only hope the net effect is beneficial. It'd be nice to see some numbers on that...

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Postby darry » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:45 pm UTC

i'm sure that the benefit of live earth will outweigh the costs, and while offsetting with carbon credits is better than nothing, the rich should not be able to get away with it and claim they are 'helping' when people in less advantageous positions have to make much larger sacrifices. the whole point is that we cannot keep living as we are, and if people are allowed to believe that it's fine to buy their way out of it, then nothing is ever going to change. of course the reality about that report on gore's house is that it's such a proportionately tiny amount of energy he's using, it doesn't really make any difference. not that that should stop him leading by example.
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Postby peter » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:45 pm UTC

QuantumTroll wrote:Yeah, it looks hypocritical to have a big honking house with bay windows and whatnot while tooting the climate change horn, but offsetting with carbon credits is a valid way for rich people to contribute to the solution. It's lazy, it looks bad, but it's not really bad. Better than nothing, anyway . :P


Um.. What's wrong with bay windows..?

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Postby Belial » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:49 pm UTC

They lose heat like a motherfucker, I assume.

And therefore, you have to spend more energy heating the house.
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