[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby sophyturtle » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:46 pm UTC

Problem I had with the original NYT article:
Chivers, who favors high boots and fashionable rectangular glasses,

WTF!!!
Why would that have any place in the article? When talking about male scientists who study sex do we comment on their 'broad shoulders and fashionable shirt'?
That you for linking that blog Delalyra, it is important to point out that just because you have some data does not mean you have proof for one thing or the other, you just have evidence of something.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Jessica » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:50 pm UTC

I read the first page before stopping. I was also startled by that comment sophy. I was also wondering: Are we sure that the measure they had for arousal in women was accurate? It seemed to spike for everything... maybe that means that their measurement was bad, as opposed to "women are aroused by anything that moves".
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Hyphe » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:57 pm UTC

I seem to remember being informed that the measure for both genders was pretty terrible, and the only reason it's used is because there's not much else. But, I'm no a scientist, so really I have no clue. :|

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Cytoplasm » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:14 pm UTC

aging.child wrote:Woman Thread- Stealing babies from fundies, and infecting them with knowledge.

This is our new mission.


I'm in.


Belial wrote:Let me know when it develops language, and I will have occasional conversations with it. Childrearing on the main, however, can be left to those who like that sort of thing.

I think I might want to carry the child. :D I will have the child in my womb if someone(s) will help raise Belial 2.4! We can raise the child as a community and give her/him/it many educational opertunities? Who's in for baby experimentation?
I have really wanted to be pregnant lately..I'm not sure why.
¡No tengo miedo a fantasmas!

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Cytoplasm: I have catoragized some of my family into lolcats.
Felstaff: For a drudging Thursday afternoon, that level of cuteness has really made my day. Can... Can I keep you?

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Cytoplasm wrote:shannonigans

<3

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Jessica » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:18 pm UTC

Cytoplasm wrote:
aging.child wrote:Woman Thread- Stealing babies from fundies, and infecting them with knowledge.

This is our new mission.


I'm in.


Belial wrote:Let me know when it develops language, and I will have occasional conversations with it. Childrearing on the main, however, can be left to those who like that sort of thing.

I think I might want to carry the child. :D I will have the child in my womb if someone(s) will help raise Belial 2.4! We can raise the child as a community and give her/him/it many educational opertunities? Who's in for baby experimentation?
I have really wanted to be pregnant lately..I'm not sure why.
Oh man, I can't wait to be Aunty Jess for so many people. Except currently the people who have children probably will never have their kids call me Aunty Jess... But, one day. When A gets preggers, she's already asked me to be the child's godparent. So, I'm quite happy about that.
doogly wrote:On a scale of Mr Rogers to Fascism, how mean do you think we're being?
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Cytoplasm » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:22 pm UTC

Yay! Aunty Jess (or Jessie?)! Let's hope Belial finds me suitable enough to womb service his clone.
¡No tengo miedo a fantasmas!

Spoiler:
Cytoplasm: I have catoragized some of my family into lolcats.
Felstaff: For a drudging Thursday afternoon, that level of cuteness has really made my day. Can... Can I keep you?

Felstaff wrote:
Cytoplasm wrote:shannonigans

<3

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Jessica » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:27 pm UTC

I hope so too.
doogly wrote:On a scale of Mr Rogers to Fascism, how mean do you think we're being?
Belial wrote:My goal is to be the best brain infection any of you have ever had.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby aging.child » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:27 pm UTC

As for having children later in life, I seem to remember reading something about how, in an older woman's womb, the hormones are more likely to get out of balance, and the child is more likely to be gay. Before the family influences him/her at all. Has anyone heard about this? It was probably on Wikipedia or something....

And where is the scientific method in that study? They have no control (that I saw from reading the first page). They should show a picture of a cat playing with a string and see if that arouses anyone.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Sungura » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:29 pm UTC

I like kids, I enjoy teaching them and playing and goofing off with them. However, I like handing them back to their parents. I could see wanting kids in the future, but I'm not sure. I definitely can't see having kids in the next five years at least. I just started grad school, and I've never even had a bf much less a serious relationship so I'm far from getting married. Heck, I've never been asked on a date before! Maybe I'm too nerdy. Anyway, so yeah, no kids in the near future for me. I like 'em okay, but I can't see raising one. As far as the idea of having kids I've always been more attracted to the idea of adoption...there are just so many unwanted kids in this world I'd rather adopt, especially the "unadoptables" - kids with some sort of illness/disease/handicap. Or keeping siblings together. Something like that.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Jadestone » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:53 pm UTC

Ooh! I meant to comment on the forum/this thread raising a child earlier but I forget to respond. Can I help? Depending on when we... someone... er... Cytoplasm? well when it is had, I could be an older cousin or something. You know, the cool kind that lets them stay at their apartment and get out of the house for a few days when they're angsty teens. Except I don't see why this child would want to with such awesome parents. So maybe just a babysitter >.<'

Since Jess is Aunty Jess and my real name is also Jessica maybe he/she/it will just have to call me Jade though. Hmm.



In other news... I was planning to wear the corset tomorrow but I am having sudden doubts/nerves now and... I don't know... >.<
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Cytoplasm » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:57 pm UTC

YAY COUSIN! Let's all just hope I will be baby-mama.

WEAR IT. DO IT. WEAR. NOW.
¡No tengo miedo a fantasmas!

Spoiler:
Cytoplasm: I have catoragized some of my family into lolcats.
Felstaff: For a drudging Thursday afternoon, that level of cuteness has really made my day. Can... Can I keep you?

Felstaff wrote:
Cytoplasm wrote:shannonigans

<3

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Jessica » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:58 pm UTC

Do it! It'll be aweosme :)

I'm glad that I've called aunty Jess :)
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Enuja » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

The corset looks great! I even think it looks great with the black T-shirt; the T-shirt makes it more causal and school-appropriate. The only convincing argument not to wear it would be if your school's dress code contains a "no clothes traditionally considered to be underwear on top", and you should simply check your school's dress code to see if that's true. Now, that corset-top is just as much traditionally underwear as a logo T-shirt, but if your school has that dress code line, then I'd be concerned. Otherwise, it appears perfectly acceptable and quite cute.

With all of this discussion of wanting to have a baby and not raise it or raise and baby and not have it: would you all like to head on over to my A new system for inheritance, career and society thread? I've gotten comments there that people really wouldn't want a system like this, and you all are my best counter-argument.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby studyinserendipity » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

I'm unsure about children - not whether I want them or not (I want to adopt 1 or 2) but what I'll do for work once I have them. I don't know if I will be able to deal with teaching young children all day and then dealing with young children at home. I'm afraid it will feel like work all the time, and I'll end up a horrible teacher or a horrible mother. Instead, I'm thinking of changing my career slightly so I'll teach piano and conduct research when I decide to have kids. That way I can make my own hours yet still meaningfully contribute to a field in which I'm interested and invested.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby libellule » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:42 am UTC

Is the NYT article the one that ran in the magazine a few weeks with the muddled signs of female arousal and rape fantasies? If so, I can't even bear to click on it as the original reading of it creeped me enough already. I'm usually quite level-headed and capable of thinking things through and generally finding flaws in most studies and arguments, but this one pushed a whole load of bad buttons for some reason.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Carnildo » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:41 am UTC

Jessica wrote:I read the first page before stopping. I was also startled by that comment sophy. I was also wondering: Are we sure that the measure they had for arousal in women was accurate? It seemed to spike for everything... maybe that means that their measurement was bad, as opposed to "women are aroused by anything that moves".

According to the article, it's a fairly direct measurement of physical readiness to have sex. How this correlates with mental arousal is anybody's guess.

Hyphe wrote:I seem to remember being informed that the measure for both genders was pretty terrible, and the only reason it's used is because there's not much else. But, I'm no a scientist, so really I have no clue. :|

It's a reasonably accurate measure of physical arousal. The problem with using it is that you can't tell if the person is being aroused by the stimulus you're providing or by something else, or if they're actively suppressing arousal. You're probably remembering debates over either using penile plethysmograph tests in criminal trials (not a permissible form of evidence in the United States), or using the tests in treatment of convicted sexual offenders (permitted, but contraversial).

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:04 am UTC

Cytoplasm wrote:Yay! Aunty Jess (or Jessie?)! Let's hope Belial finds me suitable enough to womb service his clone.


I'm not clear on the regs, but I think I'm required to ask my girlfriend before I impregnate anyone.

Just a feeling.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Shro » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:07 am UTC

The NYT article actually requires further reading to not get super upset about it. On the last page or so, the researcher (Chivers) says "Arousal IS NOT consent"and the semantics and difficulties in discussing "rape fantasies". They discuss the evolutionary pressures of physical arousal in reaction to stimuli. So women don't get turned on by seeing other women because they're all lesbians. It is because the sexual cues tell them, hey if something happens, lets produce some lubrication and stuff so it doesn't hurt like a bitch if intercourse is forced.

The basic gist of the article comes down to women want to be wanted, it is what inspires lust. The narcissism thing made me do a little questioning though. I feel like taken by itself, the article is somewhat benign, but if used as "evidence" in the wrong hands, it brings up a truckload of bullshit like "women are more likely to be lesbians because it's biological" and "women like being raped" and even "women are self-centered and narcissistic".
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:32 am UTC

I can't read too much of that article because it pushes my angry button.
Where is it even explained how they know vaginal blood flow is a measure of arousal?
(See, I might suspect something like thinking about what one's vagina is doing might cause some kind of involuntary response, like "you are now aware of your tongue" does. Me personally, how close I am to an orgasm doesn't really correlate with the fluids.)

It sounds too much like the "erect nipples" crap.

It is good that they admit that cultural factors might be important, but they kind of pushed it to the back there.

DJorgensen wrote:It's very possible. You can get drugs to assist with milk production, but even just through stimulation it can induce lactation.
So I've wondered, is there potential money in this?
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby DJorgensen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:55 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:
DJorgensen wrote:It's very possible. You can get drugs to assist with milk production, but even just through stimulation it can induce lactation.
So I've wondered, is there potential money in this?

Wet-nurses still exist. Rather uncommon but some people still like to go that sort of route. Also there is a whole fetish community for that sort of thing (though if its money you are after, it seems to me you'd just be better off selling your used panties on ebay).

Why do I know these things? :D
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Delalyra » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:47 pm UTC

...used panties actually make money on ebay?
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby semicharmed » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:00 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Cytoplasm wrote:Yay! Aunty Jess (or Jessie?)! Let's hope Belial finds me suitable enough to womb service his clone.


I'm not clear on the regs, but I think I'm required to ask my girlfriend before I impregnate anyone.

Just a feeling.


I don't think you'd actually need to impregnante anyone, it just being a clone. Would you need to ask permission before giving up some of your epithelial cells, say from your cheek?
I'm pretty sure that's all we'd need to start the clone babies. And some eggs, from somewhere. Which, if Cyto is still up for womb service, we should be able to get from her.
/me knows too much about cell bio + somatic cell nuclear transfer.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Belial » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:04 pm UTC

I'm just saying, if someone is going to be carrying my clonebaby, she should probably be aware.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:10 pm UTC

Delalyra wrote:...used panties actually make money on ebay?
It's probably for the best to not really think about it.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Magic Smoothie » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:15 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Delalyra wrote:...used panties actually make money on ebay?
It's probably for the best to not really think about it.
Creepy guys buy them from vending machines in Japan.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby DJorgensen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:40 pm UTC

You can pretty much sell anything you've worn or 'produced' to the right people...
Ebay may actually have rules against it, I am not sure anymore.
Google will help you out in you efforts!

SecondTalon wrote:
Delalyra wrote:...used panties actually make money on ebay?
It's probably for the best to not really think about it.

You are right. Though, for some reason I've read into it a fair bit...
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

DJorgensen wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Delalyra wrote:...used panties actually make money on ebay?
It's probably for the best to not really think about it.
You are right. Though, for some reason I've read into it a fair bit...
See, I know the reason I've read in to it... most of it can be boiled down to the word Really? said with a certain inflection.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:57 pm UTC

I'd heard that selling used underwear in vending machines was now not on in Japan. But it is something that happened once upon a time.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby DJorgensen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:57 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
DJorgensen wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:
Delalyra wrote:...used panties actually make money on ebay?
It's probably for the best to not really think about it.
You are right. Though, for some reason I've read into it a fair bit...
See, I know the reason I've read in to it... most of it can be boiled down to the word Really? said with a certain inflection.
That was likely my initial thought too, and then is was more... hmmmmm, I could always use more money. Maybe one day. ;)
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:00 pm UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:I'd heard that selling used underwear in vending machines was now not on in Japan. But it is something that happened once upon a time.


If the story I heard was true, the politicians and police were furious about it, but that there was no law against it.

Then one clever young officer got the vending machine company for selling second hand property without the appropriate license/ regulations.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby SDIX » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:04 pm UTC

ew, um, hmmmm I have some I've been meaning to get rid of :thinks intently about this:

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Isotope_238 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

I really need to check back more often. Sorry I'm so late here, la fée verte.

la fée verte wrote:Isotope, this rang alarm bells for me hard enough to drag me out of my usual lurkiness. Who on earth has convinced you that you have to give up your career in order to have children? There is daycare, there is shift-work, there are even *gasp* house-husbands :wink: It is so entirely possible to be both a good mother and a career woman at the same time. Probably 75% of the women I work with are proof of this, and one day, if all goes well, I plan to be too.

Please don't interpret that as yet more Oh me yarm YOU MUST HAS BABIEZ, by the way. It is of course your choice and no one else's. But if you choose not to have kids, please let it be for good reason (i.e. because you don't want them) and not just because you want a career more and you think you have to choose one or the other.


Thanks. That was a very nice response. My problem is more that I see a child and my reaction is "For the love of all that's holy, I don't EVER want that." I have younger siblings, and I'm a terrible big sister. I have no patience with their immaturity. I'd be a terrible mother, and I don't think I could live with the knowledge that I wasn't doing a good job by my own child. I'm primarily concerned with my own self-image, but if that translates to one less job for social services, that's fine by me. And now I'm trying to justify my selfishness. Thanks again.

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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby obituary » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:17 pm UTC

Good god, my ovaries/uterus are trying to eat their way out of my body.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:04 pm UTC

I don't think you need to justify yourself at all Isotope! Not everyone wants children--and it's not like there's a threat that your not breeding will end the species or something.

I don't even think it's about being selfish or not being selfish. There are plenty of incredibly selfish parents out there.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby grapefruit1 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:57 pm UTC

So. Tried to use a tampon for the first time a couple minutes ago.

I can't even locate my vagina! How the hell am I supposed to insert a tube into the thing?? God damn it. I'm just going to have to wait until mom gets home, the embarrasment of which might actually kill me. Yay.

Anyway. Today altogether sucked. I know it comes around this time of month, and in retrospect I should have seen it coming from the back pain, but I thought I was safe. Up until now, it's always skipped a month. ALWAYS. And now it chooses to rear its ugly head? Stupid Shark Week.
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:02 pm UTC

grapefruit1--I know it might sound like a weird idea, but why not find out where you vagina is with a mirror? I assure you it exists.

I'm sure you'll sort it out though, whether you need to talk to your mom about it or not. At this point, I'm much more able to embarass my mom than she is to embarass me. :D It's a skill I use occasionally, particularly through description of my cycle or diva cup...
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby grapefruit1 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:39 pm UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:grapefruit1--I know it might sound like a weird idea, but why not find out where you vagina is with a mirror? I assure you it exists.

I'm sure you'll sort it out though, whether you need to talk to your mom about it or not. At this point, I'm much more able to embarass my mom than she is to embarass me. :D It's a skill I use occasionally, particularly through description of my cycle or diva cup...


Oh, I have no doubt it exists. Where else would all the god damn blood be coming from? It's just that, I don't exactly own a mirror smaller than my closet. And I could ask my grandmother but...at this point, I really don't want to get out of bed unless it's necessary. My mom will be home in a few hours anyway.

To tell you the truth, I'm a bit scared of the whole 'put a small cotton wad into your body' concept, and would rather wait until my mom assures me that it's okay before trying it myself. Yeah, I'm still a bit of a baby.
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obituary
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby obituary » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:17 am UTC

Aww, don;t feel bad, grapefruit -- I am little freaked out by it too.

I assuaged my uterus's mad escape attempts with a sacrifice of Ben and Jerry's.
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aging.child
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby aging.child » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:21 am UTC

Huh. Eating always makes my cramps worse. Especially if its sugary or salty.

I must confess, I don't know where my vagina is either. And I don't think I'll ever need to care.

Edited for failure to revert properly back to English grammar after French homework.
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Delalyra
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Re: Woman Thread - The thread that gives (about once a month)

Postby Delalyra » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:43 am UTC

Grapefruit1, aging.child, obituary: your vaginas exist! And very fun once you know where they are.

This site is pretty awesome about anatomy and finding where your parts are (totally NSFW). I must confess it didn't help me a ton in locating my vagina, but I did find it madly informative.

Knowing about your body is good; still, there's no shame in not knowing if you're not ready. *fallopian hugs and all that*

I always think Moo would do these posts better. I can never pull off the right motherly tone without feeling out-of-character.
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