[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Alder » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:47 am UTC

Oh, they're absolutely lovely...I've a turquoise one in a similar pattern to the top one. I love glass pendants.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Jessica » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:08 pm UTC

Oh wow, those are awesome! :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby parkaboy » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:56 pm UTC

FT that is going in the woman thread: Having sex early in a friend/relationship doesn't make me "easy" - Its me doing what I want to do. AND besides, you've known me exactly as long as I have known you, so maybe YOU'RE the easy one. (this post is not directed at any one or any instance, it just popped into my head, 'bout double standards and all. I am grumpy today)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:39 pm UTC

I often call myself easy, but it works in many contexts. For example, I am easy going and don't care what movie we go to. I am easy to please when it comes to food (hint: cheese). It is easy to get me to do things I like to do.

I am not easy to get into a relationship with, or to keep there. I am much more picky about what I do with my heart, and this makes sense.

But the labels I give myself are not the labels you give you. And double standards are always complete shit.
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby PictureSarah » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:42 pm UTC

I have never actually been called easy (to my knowledge) by the partner that I slept with. Maybe other people have thought or said I was easy, but the men involved have generally recognized that the double standard is bullshit.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm UTC

Only one partner called me easy, and he meant it as in "you are easy to make cum", which is kinda true. Sometimes.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby General_Norris » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:48 pm UTC

parkaboy wrote:FT that is going in the woman thread: Having sex early in a friend/relationship doesn't make me "easy" - Its me doing what I want to do. AND besides, you've known me exactly as long as I have known you, so maybe YOU'RE the easy one. (this post is not directed at any one or any instance, it just popped into my head, 'bout double standards and all. I am grumpy today)


HELL YES! SAY IT MORE LOUDLY!

You have no idea how many relationships I have had gone wrong because her friends told her she was being a slut and looking "easy"*. This is easily one of the worst ideas that exist in society nowadays because there's a lot of crap behind it. A real awful lot.

Two days ago I got close to a girl I liked. She took me to an isolated place and kissed me. We liked each other, we had known each other for quite a lot. But seems society doesn't let her to be happy because she must expect some kind of hero that "saves" her.

Sorry to post in this thread if it's not welcomed or anything.

*I prefer women to be intelligent and capable and not to be drive by what their friends told her so it kinds of sucks twice as much, now not only they are being driven by a stupid society but what I considered an intelligent woman was a feblee one.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:53 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote: what I considered an intelligent woman was a feblee one.
This is not welcome. No woman is feeble because she does not measure up to your standards of what intelligent is or because she values the opinion of those close to her.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Spacemilk » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:46 pm UTC

parkaboy wrote:FT that is going in the woman thread: Having sex early in a friend/relationship doesn't make me "easy" - Its me doing what I want to do. AND besides, you've known me exactly as long as I have known you, so maybe YOU'RE the easy one. (this post is not directed at any one or any instance, it just popped into my head, 'bout double standards and all. I am grumpy today)

This is happening right now in my life. A good friend of mine (male) slept with his new roommate who'd moved in the day before, after they had a night at the bars and were quite drnuk. The next morning she politely informed him that she wasn't interested in a relationship but she'd had a good time, and he said more or less the same thing. But now she's the one being called a slut, or easy, while he's being congratulated and people are saying shit to him like, "So are you gonna try to lay her again?!", while she has quite gone on with her life. She's a perfectly nice girl, he's a perfectly nice boy, but the double standard going on here... good lord it pisses me off to no end. I am SO SICK of sex being a way to cheapen someone into basically being an extension of their genitalia... he's now a "pimp" and she's a "slut".

RAWR! This belongs in the rant thread...

p.s. A friend of mine asked me a question the other day that I couldn't answer: What, if any, is the difference between someone who identifies as the opposite sex, and a transvestite? I stumbled about an answer and realized that I really didn't know enough to say, and decided to hold off til I'd asked wiser people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Jessica » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:23 pm UTC

If by "someone who identifies as the opposite sex" you mean a transsexual, there are a few differences.
1) Visibility. Transsexual people are much more visible. They're at the forefront of the crusade to achieve gender rights, they're portrayed in the media, they're talked about regularly. Most people think of transsexuals when they think of transgendered people. Crossdressers are much more invisible.

2) presentation: Crossdressers often don't live fulltime. Or do it in private, or only for certain events. They have times when they cross dress, and times they don't. Transsexual people's gender (and presentation) generally is solid. They live full time, they often go through the medical field to relieve tension etc.

It's funny you should ask that, as it's been brought up a few times on the blogs I read recently, like here, and here. Actually those are both the same person in different places. Either way...

There's a kind of... looking down on crossdressers from a lot of transsexuals. things like "I'm not a fucking drag queen" from better than chocolate, or the joke "what's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual? About 2 or 3 years."

crossdressers are often viewed as closeted, hetero males who wear clothes because it feels good. but... they're also considered transgendered. It's...

It's hard to talk about them, as a transsexual, as I actually have the privilege in this instance...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Delalyra » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:54 pm UTC

That said, is there a difference between a transsexual and a transgendered person? I've always thought "transsexual" was more derrogatory (or at least used by people who have No Fucking ClueTM), and haven't used it, but I've seen you and Osha and Van use it a bunch, Jess.

Edit, oh: General Norris, don't underestimate the need to fit in with others, or the need to comply with what others expect of a person. Humans, as a species, generally want and will comply, especially in social situations. It's exacerbated for women in our culture because women are socialized to be compliant at all times. Dissing women for things like that is not helpful (whereas speaking out against the double standard without dissing women is helpful, immensely so), and also, what Sophy said.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Jessica » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:09 pm UTC

Transsexual is someone who attempts to transition, either completely or non-surgically from one sex to another.
Transgendered individual is someone who falls under the non-gender conforming umbrella, and includes transsexuals, transvestites, crossdressers, drag queens/kings, female/male impersonators, genderf*cks and any other non conforming gender model.

The original meanings were different (transsexual used to mean someone who gets the surgery, and transgendered used to mean someone who doesn't), but the current umbrella term is a more recent use of the word, to include all trans* people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Delalyra » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:20 pm UTC

Oh! Thanks. :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Jessica » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:28 pm UTC

NP :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:02 pm UTC

Thanks for the translations, Jessica. I will still probably mess it up because I forget things easily though, sorry. (It goes every way though, I was filling out an employment form today and I needed to list my race. I couldn't remember the right word, so I just wrote, "white". What are white people called anyway? I can't remember the proper Basically Decent term.)

Anyway, re the sex/slut stuff...on the opposite side of the coin, I've chosen to wait for sex until after marriage. I get bashed for this! I'm too uptight, I'm too conservative, I'm too <insert term here>. What's wrong with wanting to wait? NOTHING. So...if girls have sex "quickly" they are sluts. If we wait, we are, whatever (I forget the derogatory word used). :?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Moo » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:04 pm UTC

Fun fact: in Afrikaans that term would be "koek", which means cake. Not sure how that's a bad thing :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:06 pm UTC

Moo wrote:Fun fact: in Afrikaans that term would be "koek", which means cake. Not sure how that's a bad thing :)

:D You can call me koek any time. I like cake. That'd be a good term!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Moo » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:11 pm UTC

Actually you raise a good point: on either side of the spectrum it seems like someone doesn't approve of the level of sexual activity we choose for ourselves.

However I feel like guys and girls tend to level the criticism of "slut" but mostly guys; and it's mostly girls who say something about being a "koek". Big citation needed, and I'm using a sample size of one (my experiences) but I think it's interesting and sad how much we judge each other while we're also having to cope with misogyny and societal double standards.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:18 pm UTC

Prude is most likely the word you're looking for, Sungura. If not exactly, it'll do in a pinch.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Spacemilk » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:19 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:Thanks for the translations, Jessica. I will still probably mess it up because I forget things easily though, sorry. (It goes every way though, I was filling out an employment form today and I needed to list my race. I couldn't remember the right word, so I just wrote, "white". What are white people called anyway? I can't remember the proper Basically Decent term.)

I believe it's Caucasian. :)

Thanks for the clarification, Jessica! I thought it was something like that, but didn't want to speak on something I wasn't 100% sure about.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Prude is most likely the word you're looking for, Sungura. If not exactly, it'll do in a pinch.

YES! I think that's it. I couldn't think of the word. I think words are oozing out of my ears these days, it seems to be a standard thing I can't think of the one I want.

Spacemilk - Ah thank you!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby DJorgensen » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

Regarding trans*: I wish I could say generalizations are bad, and so are labels. Yet in the same stroke, they are necessary and general definitions are required as well.
Having said that, I do not like to draw attention to myself - but instead just live as I wish, doing as I need to do in order to remain stable and as comfortable as is plausible. I am no advocate, and I talk very little about being trans (especially these days). Frankly I am a little jaded for the effort that I had put into advocacy when I was younger given the turn of events in the past couple years with... regression instead of progression in terms of legal status where I live (flip side being more and more, people are completely fine with it when the matter comes up).

Regarding sex: I... well I tend to make a move in the first night or two of sleeping in the same bed. It just ends up happening - starting with just nice pets and touches, a massage, kissing, making out, then groping, stripping and further exploring.... It has never been a problem with anyone that I have been with. Though it does prevent me from sleeping in the same bed as some one I do not wish to have sex with.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Jessica » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:49 pm UTC

NP.

Yeah. Double standards suck. A lot.
And people say we don't need feminism anymore... sigh.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby General_Norris » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:21 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote: This is not welcome. No woman is feeble because she does not measure up to your standards of what intelligent is or because she values the opinion of those close to her.


This post had objectionable content.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Wednesday » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

This *is* a safespace, no?

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby tin » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:35 pm UTC

DJorgensen wrote:
Regarding sex: I... well I tend to make a move in the first night or two of sleeping in the same bed. It just ends up happening - starting with just nice pets and touches, a massage, kissing, making out, then groping, stripping and further exploring.... It has never been a problem with anyone that I have been with. Though it does prevent me from sleeping in the same bed as some one I do not wish to have sex with.



This seems to be my pattern of behaviour. If it feels good man, it feels good. I've yet to be accused of being easy, but like some have mentioned, I think it's due to the men I have slept with not having that double standard way of thinking.

In fact, I think if I was to be judged, it'll probably be from certain female friends of mine who believe on holding out to the nth date or some other dating "rule" which won't ever apply to me. Ever. Luckily, i'm not really that close to them anymore, so they won't be getting updates on my lovelife anyway!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Ashlah » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:16 pm UTC

This whole double standard discussion has reminded me that I've been meaning to read two Jessica Valenti books:
"The Purity Myth: How America's Obsession with Virginity Is Hurting Young Women" and "He's a Stud, She's a Slut, and 49 Other Double Standards Every Woman Should Know." (jeez, long titles!) Has anyone here read them? I read her other book when I was first starting to identify as a feminist, and thought it was great.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:33 pm UTC

Ashlah wrote:"The Purity Myth: How America's Obsession with Virginity Is Hurting Young Women"
That title made me cringe a bit. It seems to imply, to me anyway, that waiting until marriage is a bad thing, and therefore I am bad for doing it. That it is a myth I shouldn't try to achieve, because it is hurting me in some way.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby crickets » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:40 pm UTC

I occasionally feel like a very bad person, because whenever i meet someone i like, i pretty much just make myself available to them sexually. This more often than not results in me and my partner-type-person having sex pretty much straight off. Except in the case of the 34 year old man i dated a year and a half ago. It took him MONTHS. He was the first and only guy to get me half naked and then go "You need to get up early tomorrow. Time to put your clothes back on, and i'll talk to you in the morning". I was /so confused/.
And yet, i've never met anyone who thought i was slutty. Probably because i'm chubby and silly and shy. I don't exactly display sexuality, i just sort of /am/. Typically I see the term slutty as something people call others who exude more sexual confidence, in order to make themselves feel better. *shrugs*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby crowey » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:47 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:
Ashlah wrote:"The Purity Myth: How America's Obsession with Virginity Is Hurting Young Women"
That title made me cringe a bit. It seems to imply, to me anyway, that waiting until marriage is a bad thing, and therefore I am bad for doing it. That it is a myth I shouldn't try to achieve, because it is hurting me in some way.

It read differently to me: That the obsession with virginity is hurting women because anyone who isn't a virgin is instantly labeled as a slut/whore/whatever. Making women feel ashamed of having any sort of sexuality hurts them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:33 pm UTC

crowey wrote:
Sungura wrote:
Ashlah wrote:"The Purity Myth: How America's Obsession with Virginity Is Hurting Young Women"
That title made me cringe a bit. It seems to imply, to me anyway, that waiting until marriage is a bad thing, and therefore I am bad for doing it. That it is a myth I shouldn't try to achieve, because it is hurting me in some way.

It read differently to me: That the obsession with virginity is hurting women because anyone who isn't a virgin is instantly labeled as a slut/whore/whatever. Making women feel ashamed of having any sort of sexuality hurts them.
In that case, it makes sense. I just hope it doesn't make the case how I was reading it. I prefer your way of reading it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Ashlah » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:41 am UTC

Yep, I'm fairly certain it's meant in the way Crowey read it. Obviously I haven't read the book yet, but judging by what I know of the author, it would be that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to abstain. That's exactly the thing--society shouldn't shame us for whatever sexual choices we make, as it is our choice!

It's a bummer that you feel like people judge you for choosing to stay a virgin. That whole Madonna/Whore complex is a bitch. :(

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby semicharmed » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:51 am UTC

From this, I think crowey hit the nail on the head. It's about how public/cultural perceptions of virginity/women's sexuality are harming all women, regardless of their personal choices.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:47 am UTC

Well I'm glad I said something so you could straighten me out on my impression of it - which was obviously jaded due to personal experience with people on this subject in the past. :) *hugs for the women of the women thread*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Isotope_238 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:55 am UTC

I'm planning to stay a virgin until if/when I marry (big IF, despite what my parents think). That doesn't mean I have been brainwashed by a patriarchal society bent on total subjugation of women. I am a reasonably intelligent girl, perfectly capable of deciding what I want for myself sexually. I don't mean I think I'm mature enough to have sex; I mean I'm mature enough to know I should not have sex. But that is entirely my personal decision, and if it's backed up by a belief in a higher power than me, that is my business and not for anyone to make snap judgements upon.

On another topic, my best friend is three weeks into her first month of Yaz (I'm pretty sure that's the one) and had a migraine at school. She described the aura perfectly, and said she's never had anything like that happen before. I told her to tell her doctor posthaste, of course, but now I'm very worried about her. I hope I'm not hung up on my own experience with BC.

Spoiler:
On yet another, self-congratulatory topic: I've been accepted to my dream college! *throws medium-sized party and does a happy dance*

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Sungura » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:01 am UTC

*throws a huge party* dream college YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Don't spoiler that silly! *makes cake and hands you some and happy dances with you*

Do tell where!!
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she/<any gender neutral>/snug

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby GraphiteGirl » Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:09 am UTC

Sungura, I have a similar experience with the virgin thing - I'm waiting not until I get married but until I'm in a relationship where I feel like I could feasibly spend the rest of my life with the person and we're in love. (I've been sort of reconsidering this lately because of being in a very odd quasi-relationship, which people in the FaiD singles thread would know about.) I run with a very sex-positive crowd and am very open with talking about these things, and I don't feel out of place because hey, sexuality is pretty awesome, but... Because people know I'm from a religious background, I'm worried about mentioning that I'm a virgin by choice in conversation, for fear my friends will get the wrong impression and think that implicit in my choice is some judgment of them for not being virgins, or some deep fear of or revulsion towards sex - which would be totally off base.
My best friend, in contrast, has been called 'easy', both with humour and with derision, to the point where she's embraced the label - she just likes sex, and whenever she's not seeing anyone steadily she just finds someone, or several someones, to satisfy her desire for sex on a regular basis. We've taught eachother a fair bit about opposite-spectrum views of sexuality; if I hadn't known her growing up I'd probably be much more judgmental, and we're always analysing her reasons for having sex - sometimes she just genuinely craves sex for sex's sake, and sometimes she wants companionship, and sometimes it's just about being bored that day and haoppening to have a male friend around. Sometimes, though, it's about feeling unattractive or undesired and wanting someone to come and prove to her that she's not, which worries me when we talk about it. And she's oddly protective of me - she knows sex means different things to me than it does to her, so she almost has two different attitudes to sex with entirely different emotional considerations - the Best Friend Model and the Graphite Model.
And yay for Isotope!
Last edited by GraphiteGirl on Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:15 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby existential_elevator » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:23 am UTC

I know it took me a long time to be okay with the idea of sex. I would, most likely, have been in the nsbm-crowd were it not for the fact that I really don't believe much in marriage [though I am sure if it's the right choice for you, it is awesome]. Really, though, I think the most important thing is not to wait for some arbitrary time to pass, but more to wait for when it feels right for you, even if that is a year (or five) into a relationship. My big sex revelation was, in the end, that it just isn't really a big deal, and I always feel a little silly in retrospect for treating the virginity/non-virginity line like some kind of irreparable barrier into some other bizarre dimension of living of which I could have no experience. However, I still really don't know how long it would take for me to be okay with sex in a whole different relationship. I get the impression that there is some kind of normal time-span, and that if you're not having sex after 3 months then it's weird. I don't think 3 months is enough time for me to feel sure with what I'm doing.
Anyway, that's my experience and I hope it's helpful in some way.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby Isotope_238 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:49 am UTC

Thanks, Sungura! I'm sorry, but I'm not quite comfortable with putting the name of my college out the interwebs. It's one of those little private Midwestern colleges, with a student body a quarter the size of the rest of the town.

Shameless bragging: With my ACT score of 34, I rate an academic scholarship of $18,000, which is at least half of the yearly tuition, if not a couple thousand more. *throws another party, complete with a giant trampoline for happy dances*

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - #sharkweek on irc.foonetic.net

Postby marshlight » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:23 am UTC

Woman thread! How have I forgotten you! Oh I should have asked some questions before going to the store.

Yeah so. I have been running about one yeast infection every other cycle. It sucks. I got one of the refillable diflucan prescripts but I ran out...called them back, they said to try acidophilus tablets (and make sure I wasn't using Always brand things...what?! I mean, I don't use them, but it was weird to hear one company so targeted). Turns out these are wildly confusing to buy and rather expensive, but I forged ahead and got some by futurebiotics anyway (they seemed the most trustworthy?). Anyone know anything about this? I generally don't like taking supplements like this because I think it's probably better to get it from an original source, but I can only eat so much damn yogurt. If it stops the cycle I will report back.
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