[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby manictheatrefan » Fri May 06, 2011 2:57 am UTC



*sigh* Really? I live in Vancouver too and I just cannot believe this. ugh.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby poxic » Fri May 06, 2011 3:05 am UTC

What was that thing Harper said when he won a majority government (basically due only to the split in the non-Harper vote)? Something about "no secret agenda, no surprises, it'll be the same old thing as before"?

I wasn't terribly comforted by that statement. This sort of shit is why. >.<
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Hope_ » Fri May 06, 2011 12:22 pm UTC

There's an abortion debate going on in the show thread. I'm going to ramble about it here because it's really annoying me but I don't want to be involved over there.
Spoiler:
It's a load of men deciding what I should be allowed to do with my body. If it were a load of women it would be the same problem. Some of them make very good points but I just wish they would all get the fuck out of my uterus. Frankly I am past the point of caring whether someone else thinks it's moral or immoral for me to have an abortion. It would make absolutely no difference to their lives if I had one but it would make a hell of a lot of difference to mine.
People can and should take whatever moral view of abortion they like, but please respect my right to take whatever moral view I like and act on it if necessary. I am so fed up of having the same debates over and over again, just stay the fuck out of my uterus and I will stay out of everybody else's.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Shro » Fri May 06, 2011 2:35 pm UTC

Hope_ wrote:There's an abortion debate going on in the show thread. I'm going to ramble about it here because it's really annoying me but I don't want to be involved over there.
Spoiler:
It's a load of men deciding what I should be allowed to do with my body. If it were a load of women it would be the same problem. Some of them make very good points but I just wish they would all get the fuck out of my uterus. Frankly I am past the point of caring whether someone else thinks it's moral or immoral for me to have an abortion. It would make absolutely no difference to their lives if I had one but it would make a hell of a lot of difference to mine.
People can and should take whatever moral view of abortion they like, but please respect my right to take whatever moral view I like and act on it if necessary. I am so fed up of having the same debates over and over again, just stay the fuck out of my uterus and I will stay out of everybody else's.

Here is my own rant.
Spoiler:
I think it's absolutely stupid too. What are they scared of? That if women won't be forced home have our body/time be used as a baby-incubator what will happen? I just sometimes it stems from a positively neanderthal wish to maintain "breeding rights" and that they have to "pRotezks thEE baab33s!" It's happened throughout history in one form or another throughout history (and probably before) and I just want to be like "Really Society? Aren't we over this yet?" I also think that some people have this weird dystopian view of what the future would be like if complete reproductive rights, from the femtosecond of fertilization were given to the woman? That we end up with all the power in the relationship, we get to decide wether or not we're going to procreate. That women would actually get to start picking responsible baby daddies? That if men wanted to have kids, they'd have to be, you know, fathers? That getting some chick pregnant no longer enough to have your genetic line spread? My fiance's mom is a pharmacist and my mom is a computer scientist. My mom was doing her graduate degree while I was growing up. They have the same expectations of babies from me as I do for myself. Not until my thirties - and I can tell that this is something that they wanted for their daughters - the ability and opportunity to have a independent career before having babies.


Here's an article, but you will most likely want to rant too after you read it. Probably not the article, but what the article is about. And you won't want to get into an abortion debate, but sometimes you just need to talk to some women about it. We're here for you.
Last edited by Shro on Fri May 06, 2011 2:41 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby tin » Fri May 06, 2011 2:39 pm UTC

Hope_ wrote:There's an abortion debate going on in the show thread. I'm going to ramble about it here because it's really annoying me but I don't want to be involved over there.
Spoiler:
It's a load of men deciding what I should be allowed to do with my body. If it were a load of women it would be the same problem. Some of them make very good points but I just wish they would all get the fuck out of my uterus. Frankly I am past the point of caring whether someone else thinks it's moral or immoral for me to have an abortion. It would make absolutely no difference to their lives if I had one but it would make a hell of a lot of difference to mine.
People can and should take whatever moral view of abortion they like, but please respect my right to take whatever moral view I like and act on it if necessary. I am so fed up of having the same debates over and over again, just stay the fuck out of my uterus and I will stay out of everybody else's.


Having just checked out the thread, can I just say I agree with all of this you just said? I don't understand why it is so hard for people to get that my body = my choice.
i dare you to take me on...

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Fri May 06, 2011 2:53 pm UTC

Guys, that whole (most recent) business started because I tried to say politely that because a lot of people on the forum share views on some things it's assumed everyone does and those who don't are ignoramuses who get talked about and giggled at behind their backs. It's not the case, and that's why there are abortion threads for those discussions.

I know that's not what you guys are doing right now, but there is a certain critical mass of "I know, rite??" posts that end up making it feel like a space you can't participate in if you don't hold the popular view.

I am NOT looking to tell anyone what to do or not to do with their bodies, but I am asking the discussion be held in appropriate threads. I get it's pissing you guys off, and I understand and sympathize. I just please don't want to feel like I'm the only kid in school not wearing the cool thing and thus all the cool kids are laughing at me and it's easier to just cut school. Hope I'm making sense. Apologies for any stepped on toes, not intended.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 3:38 pm UTC

There is a place for "I no rite??" posts, too. It is nice to have a place to rant without having to fight against a bunch of opponents like in a proper abortion debate thread. But now "I no rite" posts have been banned in the abortion safespace thread, and you jump on them whenever they appear in the Women's thread or the Rant thread, so we're not ever allowed to have some outrage therapy?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sandry » Fri May 06, 2011 3:42 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:There is a place for "I no rite??" posts, too. It is nice to have a place to rant without having to fight against a bunch of opponents like in a proper abortion debate thread. But now "I no rite" posts have been banned in the abortion safespace thread, and you jump on them whenever they appear in the Women's thread or the Rant thread, so we're not ever allowed to have some outrage therapy?

I thought actually Moo's point was entirely fair and well-stated. This thread is a safespace thread, and it shouldn't be threatening to anyone.

If we need a place to talk this over besides the initial, let's make another thread, or find a more suitable space. I don't see why this isn't that place.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Fri May 06, 2011 3:43 pm UTC

Thanks Sandry, you saved me from posting a response not befitting this thread.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby sophyturtle » Fri May 06, 2011 3:56 pm UTC

I think it is a little tricky, because that is more tailored to people who have had abortions and their experiences verses being upset with the fact there is a debate in general. I mean, I am cool with opening up that space a bit to include simply thoughts around abortion that are not judging women who have had them but that was not really what it started as.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 4:00 pm UTC

No, ranting was already banned in that thread. I'm frustrated because there is now no place for these types of gatherings.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Fri May 06, 2011 4:03 pm UTC

Start a thread?
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 4:06 pm UTC

Hmmm...has there ever been a "Rants just for X Particular Topic"? How open would it be for people to enter and just turn it into a regular abortion fight thread again? Hammer suggested FaiD but I've never been interested in posting there.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby roband » Fri May 06, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Hmmm...has there ever been a "Rants just for X Particular Topic"? How open would it be for people to enter and just turn it into a regular abortion fight thread again? Hammer suggested FaiD but I've never been interested in posting there.


Male here (but whatever), if you can have a safespace for one side of an argument, surely you can have a safespace for the other side?

*runs away to leave the ladies to their own devices*

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby KestrelLowing » Fri May 06, 2011 4:12 pm UTC

You could always just go to the rant thread. That's exactly what it's for :wink:

I agree with Moo. While I mostly agree with what everyone is saying, I don't fully and it does leave a sour taste in my mouth. I don't want to debate here, but sometimes it's hard not to.

Just like one of my previous posts here (about my weight, specifically) was a little objectionable to the community as a whole, I think this is as well. Everyone may, or may not, agree, but it's a little like talking, in gruesome detail, about periods in a typical engineering company. There's just a better place somewhere!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby doogly » Fri May 06, 2011 4:14 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Hmmm...has there ever been a "Rants just for X Particular Topic"? How open would it be for people to enter and just turn it into a regular abortion fight thread again? Hammer suggested FaiD but I've never been interested in posting there.

Unless it is a bona fide safespace, I predict it would take very little time at all.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Jessica » Fri May 06, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

I find that ranting using vague terms (in the ranting thread) helps when I want to rant about something that some people will argue against me. It helps me get things off my chest, and keeps people from replying.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 4:42 pm UTC

KestrelLowing wrote:You could always just go to the rant thread. That's exactly what it's for :wink:

No, I've seen people get jumped on for that in that thread. And it WILL turn the thread briefly into another fight.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Shro » Fri May 06, 2011 4:59 pm UTC

And I feel like this is the only safespace people feel they have for talking about things like that without getting jumped on. And things are making me angry and really mad at people, and I need somewhere I can spit some GRAAAAHHH without people telling me I'm being political or controversial. There needs to be a place for emotional release about the subject, because it has the potential to be so offensive, but sometimes you just want to yell at things, and it's better to keep these things out of places that they will start fights. (Which is why I believe, they were spoilered to try and avoid debate). But if people are uncomfortable with that as well, I have no problem moving the talk to another thread, but can we please not have "Abortion" in the title?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Jessica » Fri May 06, 2011 5:12 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
KestrelLowing wrote:You could always just go to the rant thread. That's exactly what it's for :wink:
No, I've seen people get jumped on for that in that thread. And it WILL turn the thread briefly into another fight.
Yeah, I know what you mean. The rant thread is not a place to just vent frustration, because it's not a safespace, and people will call you on things there, or pick fights there, or be twits there.

Hence the vagueness.

But, I think Sophy's trying to change this thread into what you need.

There is also IRC for ranting if you can get on there. Or blogs. I created a blog on FAID for my own personal ramblings and mutterings because I couldn't feel safe saying these things in other threads. And I wanted a blog.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby apricity » Fri May 06, 2011 5:19 pm UTC

I'll figure out what to do about this after I get back from work, if another mod hasn't done so first. Until then, please stop debating what a Safespace is, and return to discussion that we know is Safespace-appropriate. Thank you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby sophyturtle » Fri May 06, 2011 5:30 pm UTC

On to other lady things!

It's the end of shark week, and I have also been riding my bike to work more and wearing heels in the office more. Cue intense lower back pain.
My worry is that it is UTI related not heels plus your bike seat is a little too low and your uterus is spasm-tastic. Cue drinking lots of cranberry juice and water.

Do other people get this with heels? The back pain? I am avoiding them until I figure this out or until that fancy dress party and the Slut Walk on Saturday.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri May 06, 2011 5:42 pm UTC

I had my doctors appointment today. Talked about getting breast-reduction surgery. Good news: My doctor agrees with me and was it up to her I'd get it on the day. Bad news: getting the surgery requires an application to be approved by the hospital. The hospital only looks at numbers. Namely BMI.

Fuck BMI.

Now for waiting. I hate waiting.

sophyturtle wrote:Do other people get this with heels? The back pain? I am avoiding them until I figure this out or until that fancy dress party and the Slut Walk on Saturday.

I tend to get back pains from heels. But then I get backpains from walking normally as well, so I'm not really a good person to judge what's normal.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 6:47 pm UTC

I just get fatigue in my legs, added on to scrapings if the heels don't fit well.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby KestrelLowing » Fri May 06, 2011 6:56 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:I had my doctors appointment today. Talked about getting breast-reduction surgery. Good news: My doctor agrees with me and was it up to her I'd get it on the day. Bad news: getting the surgery requires an application to be approved by the hospital. The hospital only looks at numbers. Namely BMI.

Fuck BMI.

Now for waiting. I hate waiting.

sophyturtle wrote:Do other people get this with heels? The back pain? I am avoiding them until I figure this out or until that fancy dress party and the Slut Walk on Saturday.

I tend to get back pains from heels. But then I get backpains from walking normally as well, so I'm not really a good person to judge what's normal.


Sorry if I'm missing something, but what does BMI have to do with breast reduction surgery? Still, if numbers prevent you from getting something that will probably just make your general life easier... :evil:

As for the heels, whenever I walk in them (which isn't very often), I usually get sore somewhere - sometimes it's just the feet, but sometimes it's the back. I think that's when I'm just not walking in them quite right (forget they're heels and try to walk like I would in tennis shoes).

So, body image boost of the day: My boyfriend got around to watching the 11th Doctor in Doctor Who. He told me that Amy Pond reminded him a bit of a certain facet of my personality and that I would look awesome in her clothes. :D As she's definitely my favorite companion so far, I don't mind the comparison at all! For those of you who don't watch Doctor Who (By the way, you should really get on that - it's awesome!) or haven't watched the 11th doctor, Amy Pond is The Doctor's companion and is typically dressed in a mini skirt. So it's a bit silly of me, but it's nice that he thinks I'd look good. (Which he tells me all the time!)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Shro » Fri May 06, 2011 7:01 pm UTC

It's usually my feet that end up hurting. I have a really cool pair of heels that I really should wear more often. I just have to find something cute to wear them with: I don't want to hide them behind jeans.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby sophyturtle » Fri May 06, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

I have some great heels that give me no trouble, maybe because they have a chubby heel not a thin one like these work shoes. I can get away with my sneakers in the office (like right now) but I feel more professional in the heels. Blarg shoes.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 7:08 pm UTC

KestrelLowing wrote:As for the heels, whenever I walk in them (which isn't very often), I usually get sore somewhere - sometimes it's just the feet, but sometimes it's the back. I think that's when I'm just not walking in them quite right (forget they're heels and try to walk like I would in tennis shoes).

Okay, so, tangent: how do you all walk in heels?

I never did anything in childhood to help me develop a graceful natural gait even in flats or sneakers. My normal (read: in flats) walking style has been variously described as "tromping," "steamrolling forward," and "like a man." Now, add to that the fact that I've worn heels only a handful of times, sometime in the last year, and while I can now travel without falling down every other step, I'm worried that my heels gait is probably as clumsy as my non-heels style is. What are y'all's tips for this problem?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri May 06, 2011 7:34 pm UTC

KestrelLowing wrote:Sorry if I'm missing something, but what does BMI have to do with breast reduction surgery? Still, if numbers prevent you from getting something that will probably just make your general life easier... :evil:

They consider the risk for anestesia (this might be the wrong word, but I can't be arsed to get my dictionary right now) and surgery complications too big if your BMI is above 30. And since I'm very short (150cm), have a pair of freakishly huge boobs (J-cup) and have a lot of muscles (hi kickboxing!) my BMI is up around 35 somewhere. So if they only look at the numbers and don't take anything else into account they will not approve the application unless I get my BMI down below 30. My hope is that they will look at the height and use their brain a bit, but my previous experience with these things aren't making me too hopeful.

Anyways, if they do tell me that I need to get my BMI down to get the surgery I will fire up all my rage, track whoever made the decision down and make them see it my way.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Jessica » Fri May 06, 2011 7:35 pm UTC

Usually my heals don't fit, so they give me blisters, as well as just general foot pain.
The ones that do fit though just hurt on the balls of my feet.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby blue_eyedspacemonkey » Fri May 06, 2011 7:40 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:They consider the risk for anestesia (this might be the wrong word, but I can't be arsed to get my dictionary right now) and surgery complications too big if your BMI is above 30. And since I'm very short (150cm), have a pair of freakishly huge boobs (J-cup) and have a lot of muscles (hi kickboxing!) my BMI is up around 35 somewhere. So if they only look at the numbers and don't take anything else into account they will not approve the application unless I get my BMI down below 30. My hope is that they will look at the height and use their brain a bit, but my previous experience with these things aren't making me too hopeful.

Anyways, if they do tell me that I need to get my BMI down to get the surgery I will fire up all my rage, track whoever made the decision down and make them see it my way.
...That they haven't previously looked at (at least) your height and your breast size and realised that they're kindof in the way of you getting you're BMI down is ridiculous. I understand that guidelines are needed but surely the doctors can also use their own judgement in these things?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Jessica » Fri May 06, 2011 7:41 pm UTC

I can't see them just looking at one number and then saying no.
They may only look at the numbers, but they probably also look at more than just BMI, no?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Shro » Fri May 06, 2011 7:45 pm UTC

I think in certain cases, it just has to go through an extra stage of approval if the BMI is over a certain level, and get approved on a case by case basis. Hopefully the process will not be too tough/long and it's just a little paperwork.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby ashtraygirl » Fri May 06, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

Maybe ask your GP to write a note about it in the referral letter? He could ask the anaesthetist to review you individually?

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby KestrelLowing » Fri May 06, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
KestrelLowing wrote:As for the heels, whenever I walk in them (which isn't very often), I usually get sore somewhere - sometimes it's just the feet, but sometimes it's the back. I think that's when I'm just not walking in them quite right (forget they're heels and try to walk like I would in tennis shoes).

Okay, so, tangent: how do you all walk in heels?

I never did anything in childhood to help me develop a graceful natural gait even in flats or sneakers. My normal (read: in flats) walking style has been variously described as "tromping," "steamrolling forward," and "like a man." Now, add to that the fact that I've worn heels only a handful of times, sometime in the last year, and while I can now travel without falling down every other step, I'm worried that my heels gait is probably as clumsy as my non-heels style is. What are y'all's tips for this problem?


When I remember, I usually walk like I'm tip-toeing. This helps because you don't get the sudden jarring of the heel because your heels are so much taller than normal. For me, if I tip-toe, I usually hit the toe a little before, but usually at the same time as the heel. This allows you to "glide" like in Ms. Congeniality :) I figured this out one band concert in high school when my friend and I raced down the hall in heels. It's a lot easier to run for me because it's pretty natural to run on your toes.

However, I hardly walk in heels, so someone who does so more often may have a better idea.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri May 06, 2011 8:47 pm UTC

Just for reference the Abortion Thread Where Meaux Might Yell At You in FaiD is probably where you want to go if you want to sit around with me and say things like, "Wow, i love how men will never have to have an abortion but they think they have a right to tell me what I should do." It's not a safespace, but it's a damn sure full of yelling space.
So y'know it's better than here or in the other abortion thread in Dear SB because you don't have to be nice just because you're talking to another person.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby podbaydoor » Fri May 06, 2011 9:03 pm UTC

Hmm...well, that might be a reason to join FaiD (and sink even more time into this forum D: ) I can get pretty abrasive when I'm in yelling mode. A lot of passionate feelings about this subject. I will consider this. Thread sounds awesome, though.

Edit: Heels, thank you Kestrel. Googling guides seems to bear out the walking on tip-toes strategy, although I should pretend I'm not on my tip-toes? They're telling me to come down heel first.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby felltir » Fri May 06, 2011 9:17 pm UTC

podbaydoor wrote:Hmm...well, that might be a reason to join FaiD (and sink even more time into this forum D: ) I can get pretty abrasive when I'm in yelling mode. A lot of passionate feelings about this subject. I will consider this. Thread sounds awesome, though.

Edit: Heels, thank you Kestrel. Googling guides seems to bear out the walking on tip-toes strategy, although I should pretend I'm not on my tip-toes? They're telling me to come down heel first.


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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Angua » Fri May 06, 2011 9:28 pm UTC

AngrySquirrel wrote:
KestrelLowing wrote:Sorry if I'm missing something, but what does BMI have to do with breast reduction surgery? Still, if numbers prevent you from getting something that will probably just make your general life easier... :evil:

They consider the risk for anestesia (this might be the wrong word, but I can't be arsed to get my dictionary right now) and surgery complications too big if your BMI is above 30. And since I'm very short (150cm), have a pair of freakishly huge boobs (J-cup) and have a lot of muscles (hi kickboxing!) my BMI is up around 35 somewhere. So if they only look at the numbers and don't take anything else into account they will not approve the application unless I get my BMI down below 30. My hope is that they will look at the height and use their brain a bit, but my previous experience with these things aren't making me too hopeful.

Anyways, if they do tell me that I need to get my BMI down to get the surgery I will fire up all my rage, track whoever made the decision down and make them see it my way.

Hopefully if you can get them to see that most of your excess weight is muscle, not fat, you will have a better chance as it is the fatty tissues that can cause most of the complications a lot of the time as it changes the way you absorb and metabolise the anaesthetic. Though I'm not a doctor yet, so I don't know the actual procedures, just the science :P Definitely try and make sure they take that into account and good luck.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Oregonaut » Fri May 06, 2011 9:28 pm UTC

I don't mean this to sound wrong, but if you're doing kickboxing and you're a J-cup, I applaud the hell out of you. Seriously, mad cheering props. That's flat awesomesauce.
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