[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Jessica » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:00 pm UTC

*hug again then*
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:09 pm UTC

I am sorry if people felt like I was calling them shallow or being disrespectful. That is not what I did. I was saying 'here is something I believe in' and 'here is something that affects women and makes me angry'. Also, 'here is a problem I have with make up'. To me, it is not an easy, ethically pure topic. I do not wear it, so add me to the group of women that is it not a default bridging topic. I never told people not to wear it, not to talk about it, or not to think about it. I just think it is not good for you. My opinion. Which I thought I was allowed to post. And I treated all of your posts as your opinions and was not trying to belittle them. Thanks for showing the same respect.
Last edited by sophyturtle on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Shro » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:17 pm UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote:I'm totally in favour of both! I think we can talk about anything and everything and it all qualifies on this forum. I think we all pretty much agree that not all women are interested in makeup, or politics, or shoe polish--but we can find connection on the topics we do enjoy and read about new stuff on topics we don't know as much about.

Ok, no one ever talked about shoe polish till now, but i needed a third for balance...


This. Just because we are women doesn't require us to be a large monolithic entity that are interested in the same things. Just because we're all women doesn't mean we all want to talk about the same things. Yeah, sure solidarity of being women on the internet! But we should also have solidarity in our independence as people and individuals. We don't *have* to be interested in makeup just because we are women, but we don't have to hate it either.

You know guys, this isn't our only safe space. Even though we're a minority on the internet, we can you know... branch out. I love this being a catch all for topics people want to talk about, but if there are things that people really want to have an in depth conversation about, we can always start a new thread!

Also, I don't particularly like shoes, and don't have much use for shoe polish for its intended purpose.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:33 pm UTC

Argh, I wasn't expecting this today....Oh well.
I don't particularly want to argue but I don't feel I can let this slide:

sophyturtle wrote:And make-up, make-up is fine as long as you don't use it as a mask to hide your face. I know this is a tricky issue, but wearing make-up every day is not only bad for your skin but buys into the notion that you should look some way that you don't. The idea that you can become more beautiful if you pluck your eyebrows to nothing and cover any flaw makes the natural differences we have become flaws. When everyone alters themselves to be this ideal, those who don't become freaks. I hate it. I always see make-up as part of a costume, something you wear on stage or when you are going for a very specific look (you wanna dress like a pin-up for that party, cool, go for it). If it becomes part of every day it makes me sad because that means every day you wake up and look at your face saying, this is not okay to enter the world with. I will not have the bravery to let people see my actual face.
You wanna know what will make you beautiful (and not the paint you apply the focus of your beauty?), taking care of your skin. It has been said before and should be said again, sunscreen every day your face sees the sun is a good idea. They have it in moisturizers now. Lip balms do too. I understand the desire to make oneself look better. To make it look like you are someone else maybe. But it makes me sad because then who is the person everyone loves?

So do your make-up. I did not mean to rant, it was just seeing more attention paid to eyeliner then to the political craziness that could really hurt me, and the women around me that got me fired up. I will not tell you how to face your life. I have known women who put on make-up every day and it was beautiful. My problem was that they did not know they were beautiful when they took it off at night. It hurts me to see people I love unable to love the same face I do, and only able to love the one that has been chemically altered.


I find this post incredably patronising, and you're making a lot of assumptions about women who wear makeup and why we chose to.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:50 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote:And make-up, make-up is fine as long as you don't use it as a mask to hide your face.


That was my point. If you do not hide behind it, then you do not hide behind it. If you do, it makes me sad. The assumptions I was making are not generalized to everyone. And some people do hide behind it. You may not. Awesome. But there are people who do. I have known them.

I have known women who put on make-up every day and it was beautiful. My problem was that they did not know they were beautiful when they took it off at night.

I am not saying this is everyone. I am saying this happens, but not that it is everyone.

My assumption in general about make up, people put it on to change how they look. This can be good and bad. It is tricky. My rant was obvious taken in ways that offended people, and while I am sorry they where offended I am not sorry I expressed myself.

The idea that you can become more beautiful if you pluck your eyebrows to nothing and cover any flaw makes the natural differences we have become flaws. When everyone alters themselves to be this ideal, those who don't become freaks. I hate it.

Not directed at people who do it, but at the society shaping it. Women pitted against each other based on physical appearance and competition. A society obsessed with appearance. I hate that.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:58 pm UTC

Actually, those bits weren't the bits I have a problem with

sophyturtle wrote: but wearing make-up every day is not only bad for your skin but buys into the notion that you should look some way that you don't.

Patronising, you think we don't know this?


I always see make-up as part of a costume, something you wear on stage or when you are going for a very specific look (you wanna dress like a pin-up for that party, cool, go for it). If it becomes part of every day it makes me sad because that means every day you wake up and look at your face saying, this is not okay to enter the world with. I will not have the bravery to let people see my actual face.

This might not have been intended to be about everyone who wears makeup every day, but it certainly sounds like it, and it is very judgemental. To assume that someone who wears makeup is wearing it as a mask, and hates the way the look without it, and can't face the world without it and is a coward is very condecending. Not to mention plain wrong.

You wanna know what will make you beautiful (and not the paint you apply the focus of your beauty?), taking care of your skin.


again with the patronising.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:08 pm UTC

I was reporting data I collected form some people. For them, make up is worn because they think they are not pretty enough and would never let people see them without the 'mask' of make up. I have heard many people call it their mask. Some people think they need it to be accepted. I am not saying they are bad people. I am saying that makes me sad. How could I feel any other way when I know people who do not think their actual face is good enough to be seen?

And the 'it's bad for you part, well, it is. I do something bad for me too, I smoke. I do it every day because I am addicted. People point that out to me all the time, and I know it but they do it anyway. Pointing it out is their way of saying 'do you really think it is worth it'. I light up and say yes. Horrible for my skin by the by. Sorry for pointing out the obvious. It had been the elephant in the room, and I felt the need to say it.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:13 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote:I was reporting data I collected form some people. For them, make up is worn because they think they are not pretty enough and would never let people see them without the 'mask' of make up. I have heard many people call it their mask. Some people think they need it to be accepted. I am not saying they are bad people. I am saying that makes me sad. How could I feel any other way when I know people who do not think their actual face is good enough to be seen?

But the way you did it was to suggest that ALL women who wear makeup think like that. Which isn't true.


And the 'it's bad for you part, well, it is. I do something bad for me too, I smoke. I do it every day because I am addicted. People point that out to me all the time, and I know it but they do it anyway. Pointing it out is their way of saying 'do you really think it is worth it'. I light up and say yes. Horrible for my skin by the by. Sorry for pointing out the obvious. It had been the elephant in the room, and I felt the need to say it.

Doesn't it piss you off when they do that? It would annoy me, it does annoy me when I get told about the dangers of drink or sports that I do, as if I was unaware of them.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

She has clarified her statement more than once, crowey.
sophyturtle wrote:I am not saying this is everyone. I am saying this happens, but not that it is everyone.

Let's just accept that this is her opinion and that she didn't actually mean offense by it, why don't we?

Personally, I friggin hate makeup! There, I said it! I hate the damn stuff!
It makes my face feel weird, makes me break out half the time, and I don't seem to be able to keep it on long enough to make a difference. Sometimes I wear mascara. That is also a pain in the ass.
But at least I'm not trying to put lipstick on a pig, eh? *nudge nudge wink wink politics*

someone please see what I did there.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby natraj » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:29 pm UTC

Meaux_Pas wrote:But at least I'm not trying to put lipstick on a pig, eh? *nudge nudge wink wink politics*


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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby ThatOneRedhead » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:16 pm UTC

natraj wrote:
Meaux_Pas wrote:But at least I'm not trying to put lipstick on a pig, eh? *nudge nudge wink wink politics*


Oh me yarm SEXIST.


Miss Piggy takes offense to that statement!

/Hi! I'm new, and just found this thread.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Rinsaikeru » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

I think this is the longest discussion of a discussion I've seen/participated in for a while. :D It's sorta fun in a meta-ish way.

I like makeup, mostly to play with--just like I doodle all over everything. Lots hate it--there is no universal bridging topic, though they do say women are the universal reader--because we'll read (as a group--not individually), from any genre from romance to mystery to non-fiction without feeling any stigma for doing so.

I wonder if they include porn in this statement? (I only recall it vaguely from my undergrad. :P)
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby stockpot » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:18 am UTC

I don't think straight-up porn is included in that, but I think the women I know would be more okay admitting to reading semi-erotica than the men would. That might be more a statement on the people I choose to associate with, though.

Ladyquestion: For those of you who wear them, how often do you replace your sportsbras? I have trouble figuring out when mine are worn out because it happens so gradually. *needs an excuse to go bra shopping*

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby hermaj » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:22 am UTC

Can't help you there, sorry. As my title might suggest, I've only just managed to find myself a decent sports bra. :P I guess you would replace them when you started to feel breast pain after exercise, or as though they weren't giving you much support?

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby shinybaby » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:30 am UTC

i guess i replace my sports bras as soon as running/working out starts to get uncomfortable... i really, really hate to *feel* my breasts bouncing too much when i excercise... it makes me self-conscious.

some last longer than others... i have a couple that are still great after a year of use, and i've had several that i've had to toss after a dozen washes... :P

clear as mud, right? :D it never hurts to have an extra sports bra, so... from a stranger on the internet: i give you permission - nay! an excuse! - to go indulge in a new sports bra!! :D
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Rinsaikeru » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:38 am UTC

I really ought to get a sports bras, all of mine are the underwired variety--which I happen to be a huge fan of. Any advice for purchase of sports bras?

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby PictureSarah » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:39 am UTC

Check out http://www.title9.com
Best sports bras ever. Pricey, but worth it. They even have them ranked as to which ones will control bouncing the best, even on the bustiest of women.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:40 am UTC

I'm in danger...since I haven't been going out (consumed with cleaning/packing/internet), I haven't been bothering to put on any bras at all, and...I kind of like it.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:19 am UTC

That sounds like the fun kind of danger, but don't you get sore?
I'm home alone two days a week most weeks, and as much as I like wandering round my house semi-clad, I always end up putting a bra on after half an hour or so. It starts to ache, otherwise.
I'm jealous! :D
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby shinybaby » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:21 am UTC

__jess wrote:That sounds like the fun kind of danger, but don't you get sore?
I'm home alone two days a week most weeks, and as much as I like wandering round my house semi-clad, I always end up putting a bra on after half an hour or so. It starts to ache, otherwise.
I'm jealous! :D
i find this too... i like being braless, but i need at least a little support... i'm a fan of the shelf bra in tank tops for wandering around the house... :D
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:30 am UTC

Comfiest bra + blanket-poncho/giant football jersey = Fridays at my house! :D
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:31 am UTC

__jess wrote:That sounds like the fun kind of danger, but don't you get sore?
I'm home alone two days a week most weeks, and as much as I like wandering round my house semi-clad, I always end up putting a bra on after half an hour or so. It starts to ache, otherwise.
I'm jealous! :D

Not a bit of it. 40D and feeling fine. Maybe if I were being more active, but the exercise I'm doing right now (cleaning/packing) is mostly strength.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby DJorgensen » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:36 am UTC

oh... its been like five years since I've owned and wore a sports bra...
Sad thing is there's really nothing there for it to be supporting (still).
Though I guess that its a good thing is that there is nothing to get in my way or to bounce uncomfortably.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:48 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:Not a bit of it. 40D and feeling fine. Maybe if I were being more active, but the exercise I'm doing right now (cleaning/packing) is mostly strength.


Hm. According to google, a US D is an AUS C, which makes me a US D or DD. I wasn't doing any exercise at all, just walking around, sitting at the computer or reading or drawing. You must have... strong boobies? :shock:
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:57 am UTC

I am woman, hear me roar!
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Rinsaikeru » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:33 am UTC

Bra shopping is my weakness. I wish I was in the UK again, the bra selection--so awesome! They have the brands I love in department stores instead of boutiques. Blah, stupid North America.

You'd think they'd carry every size bra in stores here, but most don't. And if you have a smaller band size and larger cup size--forget about it. For some reason they assume that large breasts necessitate a large rib cage--which is not always the case. *grumble*

Ok..I'll stop myself from a full fledged bra rant, but only just.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:36 am UTC

Rinsaikeru wrote: And if you have a smaller band size and larger cup size--forget about it. For some reason they assume that large breasts necessitate a large rib cage--which is not always the case. *grumble*
My problem exactly. I know how you feel. I'm a 6 or an 8 in terms of band size, but they barely exist for my cup size. I always end up having to get expensive bras, or ill-fitting ones.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Felstaff » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:46 am UTC

Women, re: the purchasing of bras.

1.) How do you go about this?

Before you answer, or tell me this has been covered in the past 293 pages, I would like to tell you how I think they are purchased, based on conclusions I have drawn from many hours spent bored waiting in clothiers.
  • Lady walks into shop
  • 'Shopkeep, I would like to try a bra please'
  • 'Certainly mademoiselle, would you like to be measured?'
  • 'Yes, please'
  • Lady is taken to secret room that men cannot enter, but fear.
  • Room contains GIANT LASER ROBOT that scans each puppy and creates one of those futuristic-green-and-black-graph-3D-rotating-images of the lady's bust. There's a lot of blinking lights, like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise.
  • GIANT LASER ROBOT voice says: 'You are. A. Size. Thirty. Six. C.'
  • Lady exits and grabs a 36C
  • 'What's in that room?' I ask
  • 'Oh, uh, just tampons.'
  • End of conversation.

That is totally what happens, right?
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:26 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:That is totally what happens, right?

Totally.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Hawknc » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:36 am UTC

Men just usually wait until Father's Day/birthdays to receive socks and jocks. Simpler, but less futurawesome.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby hermaj » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:45 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:Women, re: the purchasing of bras.

1.) How do you go about this?

Before you answer, or tell me this has been covered in the past 293 pages, I would like to tell you how I think they are purchased, based on conclusions I have drawn from many hours spent bored waiting in clothiers.
  • Lady walks into shop
  • 'Shopkeep, I would like to try a bra please'
  • 'Certainly mademoiselle, would you like to be measured?'
  • 'Yes, please'
  • Lady is taken to secret room that men cannot enter, but fear.
  • Room contains GIANT LASER ROBOT that scans each puppy and creates one of those futuristic-green-and-black-graph-3D-rotating-images of the lady's bust. There's a lot of blinking lights, like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise.
  • GIANT LASER ROBOT voice says: 'You are. A. Size. Thirty. Six. C.'
  • Lady exits and grabs a 36C
  • 'What's in that room?' I ask
  • 'Oh, uh, just tampons.'
  • End of conversation.

That is totally what happens, right?


... If I am ever in England I am taking you shopping. :P

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby eternal luna » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:54 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:I'm in danger...since I haven't been going out (consumed with cleaning/packing/internet), I haven't been bothering to put on any bras at all, and...I kind of like it.

In danger?

Most days are braless in my world, but those seem to be getting less frequent :( damn growing boobage, I like being able to run painlessly.

I think I might stop plucking my eyebrows. Doing it doesn't really bother me, but it's the only hair removal I perform, and I figure that it's a somewhat pointless use of my few minutes a week. On the other hand, my mother made me start waxing/plucking when I was twelve, and the hairs that do grow back are sparse and really little, so I'm not sure how well they'd grow back. I'll probably end up with a definitive line where I remove the hairs now. Gah, yet I like the shape. I don't know. Here's a picture for reference.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:10 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:Men just usually wait until Father's Day/birthdays to receive socks and jocks. Simpler, but less futurawesome.


I buy underwear all the damn time.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

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Hawknc
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Hawknc » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:11 am UTC

That's because you keep giving them away to groupies.

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Moo
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Moo » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:13 am UTC

Luna, in the end you should do what works best for you. You could try letting it grow back to see how you feel - do you like the not having to bother more, or do you like the shape more? - and waxing / having it waxed off again if you don't like it?
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
Hawknc wrote:FFT: I didn't realise Proverbs 9:7-8 was the first recorded instance of "haters gonna hate"

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby eternal luna » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:02 am UTC

Hawknc wrote:That's because you keep giving them away to groupies.

If he were to speak like his title, I'd be a groupie. Extensive vocabularies make me swoon.

Moo, I really don't know. Has anyone else here tried it? I'm not sure what to expect in leaving them, beyond ingrowns and the like.
Alexius:-Охуели? Нахуя дохуя хуйний нахуярили? Расхуяривай нахуй!
-Хули? Нихуя! Нехуй расхуяривать! Нахуячено нехуёво! Похуярили!
Gojoe: We are all inferior to you luna.

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Moo
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Moo » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:09 am UTC

Well, I'm veeeeery lax with plucking; it doesn't look like I've ever plucked at all at the moment (it's probably been a few months). They just tend to, you know, come back, and stay there if I let them. They don't grow in either. I have more "stray" hairs on the arch of my eye above the lid than between eyebrows though.

I have NO idea what your experience would be though, I'm sure these things vary greatly from person to person.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.
Hawknc wrote:FFT: I didn't realise Proverbs 9:7-8 was the first recorded instance of "haters gonna hate"

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:34 am UTC

sports bras: check out shockabsorber, they are very good. Also they last a long time, I have one that's 2 years old, gets washed weekly and still works just fine :mrgreen:

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Delalyra » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:40 pm UTC

Luna: my mom plucked her eyebrows for years, and eventually the extra hairs stopped growing back in. So if you like the shape (and I think it's quite nice), you might be able to just leave it eventually.
you may remember me from 2008 or 2009. I left for a while. I'm now sporadically back. I tumble here.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:35 pm UTC

Sports Bras: I bought a bunch in high school, and have been a wrestler, cheerleader, rugger (rugby player), pole vaulter, discus thrower, etc. and those bras are still good (amazing since I am now 25). However, I seem to be much less busty than some of the other people here. In that I am a B cup in the US probably making me an A other places.
So I don't really get the soreness from going bra-less. I do have *very* friendly nipples, and if I do not wear a bra they like to make themselves known to just about everyone who passes, telling them about slight temperature changes, breezes, and such things. Of course, while for me a shelf bra is enough to go to work in, I still have my winter bras. You know, the ones that have thinker cups. They hide more of the nipple activity.
Not that I want to suppress my nipples. Sure, they can tell everyone all the things they want when we are in the safety of home. But being told by strangers that they can see your nipples (as if people not not know I have them) since one is 14 gets old after 10 or so years.


Plucking: I did it for a year. I never did it. Never saw the point. But I dated a real asshole who kept on it for 6 months, and then said let me do it for you. SO I let him, and once they were gone I felt like I had to keep them trimmed. I have since stopped. I have big super hero eyebrows that have a fork in them where they grow to either side of the bone in my eye (on the outsides). I like having them back.


HSS thingy (cause someone asked): We are in the official 30 comment period, which ends September 25th. The redefinition of abortion has been taken out but medical professionals have been 'strongly advised' to push the definition.
You can raise a fuss here. Or read an article on it here
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.


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