[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby PictureSarah » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:55 pm UTC

I'm sorry you're having expensive, anxiety-producing issues, Moo. That sucks. Having a baby is enough of an ordeal without additional complications!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:44 pm UTC

Does anyone else have problems getting listened to by doctors? It seems I can only get proper medical attention and am listened to about my own body when I take a male friend.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby poxic » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:51 pm UTC

I have had to be insistent about getting some tests done in the past. Sometimes I was justified by the results, sometimes not.

I'm trying to mentally add up whether there was a doctor-gender divide for this (since I only have one patient-gender axis). I don't recall a clear trend. Just one fellow that I saw for several years who refused to acknowledge a blood sugar problem I was having until I argued him into sending me for a glucose tolerance test. Result: hypoglycemia, not revealed by the earlier fasting blood glucose test.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby natraj » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:44 pm UTC

i 110% have this problem basically all the time. i have never been exactly sure /what/ to chalk it up to (i am black, deaf, crazy, poor, female-presenting much of the time, trans... there's like a million reasons they are probably not listening) but when i take a buffer of Cis White (or white-passing) Person (most often male just due to the couple friends I have who tend to be available for such, although sometimes my partner's mom would come and it worked just as well so idk, but she is older and Respectable looking and Has Money so these are probably all factors too) suddenly the doctors will listen to me.

or well, not to me, but to the things i tell my Buffer Friend to tell them on my behalf.

i hate the medical industry sooo much D:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:56 am UTC

When I was pregnant I had to change ob/gyns twice to find someone who just sort of kind of tolerated my birth preferences.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:08 am UTC

It is Very Good in my experience to have someone with me at the MD's.

I have an I was too female story:
It is not a medical story.
Spoiler:
I bought a car.
Everything was settled.

It was the car I wanted at the price I wanted to pay.
All the paperwork was done.
The Manager and the Salesman and I had all signed the papers.

The Salesman happily took me into an office where a woman was waiting.

This, we agreed, was to be The Last Step.
It was time to Pay for the car.

The woman had the finance papers drawn up for me to sign.
I said, "No." I was ready to pay for the car with Cash or Check.

I was Not ready to sign finance papers.
I had been saving for a car.

Then she said, "No." She would not finalize the sale.
I had been chosen, because I looked like a good risk.
They made their Real Money on financing.

I was SOOO! Upset.
I picked up the papers and went home.

I just happened to have a friend visiting me.
He was 6 foot 4 inches tall. He weighted in at #240.
He had Money. He looked like he had money and acted it, too.

He went back to the car dealership.
I went in and told the woman and salesman, I had a signed agreement.
I wanted to buy the car.

They were giving me a ration of shit.
My friend, Jerry, was listening.
He stepped up and cleared his throat.

Fuck All! He said not one word. They changed!
They were suddenly willing to take my money!

Until that day, I did not know I was being fucked with Here, There and Everywhere.

In the medical world another set of eyes, another set of ears make a World of difference.
Did I hear that right?
What would you do?
Why??


Sometimes, I get a little overwhelmed.
Spoiler:
Hey! And; My formal education is in medical!

I know to write questions down, I don't always remember to read and ask them.

The last few times I have been to speak to MD's I have had someone with me.
I highly recommend it.

Once; Only once was it even a little uncomfortable.
I love my specialist and I think she likes me.

When I have a guest with me,
we must be a little tiny bit more formal.

Another good reason to have a guest with me at the MD's is
people ask questions. I can let the guest answer them.

Gossip is not alway mean spirited.
(shrug) I'm not a private person.
I don't have secrets.

In my limited experience, my guest has been a God Send for local gossip.
I might be too tired or sick to talk about it. My guest can tell the story.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby bluebambue » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:59 am UTC

Spoilered for lack of similar experience and derailing to be about my own "problems" and what is basically me typing out some thoughts that have been bouncing around my head for a while:
Spoiler:
I'm not sure what it is, but I cannot recall a single experience where I've had someone not listen to me like that. As an extreme counter example, I was able to get permanently sterilized at the age of 21 without even being the one to bring it up (went in for an IUD initially). All I did was wear business casual clothing at a consultation with the surgeon-doctor and spend 5 minutes talking about not wanting kids ever.

This is definitely privileged-person-problems (white, cis, and born into minor wealth), but I sometimes feel left out of a lot of the normal bad experiences of women. I've never noticed being interrupted in meetings, I've never had someone repeat my idea and have had them listened to, and I rarely get catcalled on the street despite walking through busy areas and taking transit every single day. In some ways I feel like my experience of feminism is closer to a man's, who has to believe the women in his life that all this actually does happen all the time. I do actually feel some flattery when I get cat called, as when I don't I sometimes feel like something is wrong with me.

Some things that I think are true about my communication:
-I rarely talk about emotions or feelings, but focus more on measurable outcomes
-I don't always notice someone else's discomfort, so will sometimes bulldoze over them a bit to make my point (though this does have other ramifications)
-Although I do hedge my assertions with things like "I'm not 100% sure on this, but.." I will present the best evidence I have for something at that time.

I would definitely categorize my communication style as traditionally male. My current theory as to why I can do it without getting any push-back about being a bitch/overly assertive is that my physical presentation is obviously female (but without being particularly feminine) and that I have enough generally odd mannerisms that my communication style can be at least partly chalked up to weird rather than male.

Though it just occurred to me that maybe one reason why I've had a ton of trouble having my existence remembered by the BI team for the first year in my current role is that I'm female, and combining that with a title that was originally not at all tech-y, they always rounded down both my technical ability and my ambitions in what I would build (and thus require from them to lay the groundwork for).

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Echo244 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:08 am UTC

I've had some problems with doctors. In the end, I ended up liking the specialist who accepted me as a patient then failed to respond to any kind of contact for almost three months. Mostly because I had explored all reasonable avenues of getting in contact with him and ended up having to go through one of his employers, broadcasting his professional failure and essentially being able to drop him in deep trouble with his professional association at will, so the power dynamic shifted and he did as asked, within the bounds of reason (and which I never attempted to go beyond).

The worst problem was with the GP I'm formally registered with, who was awful, uninformed about what I needed, didn't listen to me or anyone else more informed, and did what she wanted. Now I've discovered that one of the other doctors at the practice is a whole lot better, and ask for this other doctor, by name, every time. I think that was more "I am the Doctor, you are the Patient, I make the decisions and you will get what you are given and you will like it" than anything gender related, though.

As for work... eh. I'm a woman in a minor leadership role in a STEM career. I try to engage positively with people, but if I get the slightest hint of being pushed aside by someone, I trample over them. Hard and fast and stopping to jump up and down on them, just to make the point. It wins me few friends among the ambitious crowd, but once I've asserted myself and can dictate the tone, I do my best to collaborate and be inclusive and create a friendly and open environment and so on. And it only works because I'm good at what I do.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:44 am UTC

That reminds me, I've been thinking about my experiences as a private and moderately wealthy patient in South Africa. Here I often get what I ask for (except when it comes to birthing options) because it's very much a service provider / paying customer dynamic.

In the UK, I had similar experiences as Echo - awful "assigned" doctor, always asked for another by name. Even then I didn't get anything resembling the help I was asking for when I went to her with mental health issues.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:32 am UTC

(ech) Moo; In the US I was struggling financially and paid $165.00 for a provider to accuse me of Drug Seeking.
When I finely got to a Doc that could hear and believe me, I was very, very sick. The disease had progressed.

That is my big concern with what Sungura is going through.
My guy referred me. Then the specialist referred me.

I got referred a bunch with the primary doing his job.
We was acting like a Project Manager, not a God.

He's my Doc, now.
He reads reports and gives me hugs.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:09 pm UTC

bluebambue
Spoiler:
I'm jealous! I'm in STEM fields and I have always gotten along better with males (my speech, the way I interact, etc). So I am really not sure why I have troubles with doctors, other than being female. I am cis-presenting (although not fully cis, people assume so) white as well, so I have those privs. I try different presentations to doctors and can't find one that works. Being myself clearly doesn't work. So I've gone in and tried to play the crying damsel role, that doesn't work. I've also tried the Spock role (what I call no-emotion all-facts) and that doesn't work either. Being myself means a touch of emotion (letting myself "be sick", but approaching everything from facts). If I'm missing something, I don't know what it is. :/ I don't seem to have issues at work. I did have troubles in grad school - my department all the females had troubles with our graduate officer for the department. But other than that, overall, people respect my intelligence / ideas it seems. It did take me until 27 to find a doctor to take my uterus out once and for all. Had I pushed for that in Michigan, it woudln't have been an issue, but the IUD was working then and so I wasn't looking to do surgery.


I do have priv (white, cis-presenting) and while I grew up poor I was always able to be in school and was good enough to get scholarships and all that. I am well spoken, and being from science can speak with doctors on their level (first year grad school since I did it in a med school was the same courses as the med students took, even!). I almost feel like they resent me for that. So I have tried hiding that, and play the "dumb patient" role and play up to their god-complex, but that doesn't work either. I didn't seem to have as much trouble in Michigan as I do here. I had some troubles, but not anywhere to this level. So it probably is partially a Southern issue. And it's not just male doctors who treat me poorly, it's the females too. I actually seem to have worse luck with female doctors than male! I mean...when you say at least four times you can remember distinctly to not stick the left arm, and it still happens, what the fucking hell? But I've been sick for three weeks now. They didn't get the blood drawn, and sent me with a script to go to a lab to get it drawn (which, I will have to pay extra for, which I don't think is fair - they can't employ good enough phlebotomists so I have to pay? they damage me, so I have to pay?) And I'm not sure I can go to a doctor again, emotionally. At least not for a while. I'm certainly not going to get these blood tests done in my current emotional state.
spoilered for abuse trigger warning
Spoiler:
Also this recent experience triggered a lot of old emotions about abuse. The whole saying-no many times, until finally just too exhausted and sick to say no any more, and then Bad Shit happens. I understand doctors sometimes cause pain for various procedures. I get that. But UNDUE pain for stuff that I warn WILL hurt, and ask specifically for it to be done gently/differently (because I know, from past, and can coach on how it /wont hurt/). This I don't understand why they insist on causing pain, and then treating it like it's my fault when I scream. I am better today, but yesterday I was feeling so horribly violated. It was exactly the emotions I experienced with abuse in the past, and was rather triggering. Because it's not different. I don't care doctor or not, NO means NO. And now I'm just kinda terrified of doctors at all, I've had so many bad experiences where my body was not respected and this is the worst yet. And I am suffering long term for it, because now i have the temporary nerve damage that happens. Luckily since they were using a butterfly - which is a smaller needle - the damage is less and I think I will be back to 100% in a week or two, instead of it being a month or so.

NO means NO. No matter who you are. I wish doctors understood this.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Echo244 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:32 am UTC

<Offers Sungura a hug through the internet>

I've always taken the path of saying not just "No" but "Never" when I don't want something done one way, and tell them what is OK and what they do have consent to do. Usually involving blood, too. The language of consent really closes down their options and they take blood from the arm I tell them to; if they push back, I start asking to speak to their manager/senior nurse/whoever, who will generally take one look at the situation and say "Do what she says".

If they just keep trying to grind you down... I don't really know what to suggest. Walking out isn't much of an option unless you have somewhere else to go.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:13 pm UTC

(hugs back)
Well the sad thing is, the young phlebotomist wasn't comfortable to do it himself, so he did go get the clinic manager, who is the one who fucked up, the doctor who had seen me came into the room during, and made her stop attempting to get the needle in. How fucked up is that?! But yeah...i need to find a good clinic. I've seen probably a dozen different docs in my couple years here, not been too happy with any of them.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Echo244 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:45 am UTC

Yeah, sounds like that clinic just doesn't have someone experienced, or didn't have them around at the time. The manager really ought to be finding someone not just good but also in practice, rather than trying to do what *they* wanted themselves, just to solve their management problem and avoid having to spend extra time/manpower doing the right thing.

It may be worth asking around - are there patients' groups or anything who might be able to advise which places (and more importantly, which staff) are really good for taking blood? This sort of info usually gets around some sort of grapevine...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:49 pm UTC

So since I've been advised I can ask about this here... *clears throat* Hi. What's the best way to cope with incompatible measurements for a bra?

By that I mean I've been measured, and I am apparently a band size 52 (inches? I assume so), but not even quite an A cup. I'm currently making do with bandeaus (size 3X, I think), but they're already starting to fray. I've looked online, though, and 52s don't seem to go much below Bs. I don't want to have to use inserts, and while I can use extenders, they're only good for certain kinds of bras, and I need to use TWO on the few bras I already bought. The straps splay a little wide as a result.

Am I doomed?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby PictureSarah » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:44 pm UTC

You may be a little doomed. You should be able to find sports bras that work, but to get a true 52A in a variety of styles, especially anything cute, you'll probably have to go the custom route.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:58 pm UTC

You seem to be confused on sizing so just in case that's throwing you (because it is confusing!) get a flexible tape measure (Walmart or wherever has sewing supplies), and measure around your ribcage under your breasts - if you're in the U.S. Use inches (UK sizing is similar but I find it to be measurement minus 2 for UK bras) anyway, then measure around the fullest part of your chest over your breasts. If the difference is 1", then that's an A cup, 2" is B, so on (approx, every brand/ shape can fit differently, but this gives you a starting point). So say you are 52, and measure 54 around with breasts, then that's approx 52B. Anyway. I hope that helps. My mom wears a 3x shirt size and is 44 so I'm wondering if your measure technique is off a bit. There isn't any "add x inches" or whatever, that's all really old. Bravissimo has a really good bra fitting video, actually. Which helps for fitting once you have the bra in hand to try on. Once you find a style you like (even if you approximate and order and none quite fit right) the video would help you figure out what to do to fix the fit. And layne Bryant might work if you are in the U.S. and want a physical store.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby CelticNot » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:02 pm UTC

Actually, when I was measured for this last, it was at a women's fashion store, and it DID seem accurate... but last week I decided to re-measure myself, and to my surprise and shock, I'm down to a 46" band. Which, amusingly, is exactly the size of the two bras I'd already bought, but needed extenders for. I've been able to start wearing those with some confidence, though they're C-cups and I am... not there yet.

I think I underestimated exactly WHERE I would lose my weight from when I started on my diabetic diet. I seem to be losing it all over, rather than in the places it's most concentrated. In similar fashion, my feet now actually fit women's size 12-13 shoes (NA sizing, anyway).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:47 am UTC

In my experience weight loss is very individualistic in how it works. I was told all growing up that women gain and lose in their breasts first. I don't find that true at all (other than a bit of extra water weight when I cycled making them 1/2 to a full cup larger). I am the same as you though, I lose weight all over. Or I gain it all over. I carry my weight very well. Even doctors will guess in 160-170 range but I'm 200 give or take 5. I tend to notice weight loss and gain in my breasts and tummy most, because of bras and pant waists but it really is all over.

And totally keep measuring your bra size. With weight loss like that n all, it will keep changing. Expect a lot of flux. And also different styles of bras (plunge, half cup, full cup, balconette, tshirt) will all fit a little different. I do well in half cups and plunges. The different bra shapes fit different breast shapes better and you won't know until you try on. And do be careful with store folk measuring. Very few can do it properly (even "trained" people) and go for the fit above all. The band should be quite tight and hold most of the weight. The shoulder straps are for security and should only be tight enough to not skip off your shoulders. The BEST fitting places won't even use a measure except maybe for a starting size idea. But it is the fit not the numbers.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:07 am UTC

I'm lying in a hospital bed waiting for my laparoscopy. The anaesthetist has just been here explaining about putting in a drip and a breathing tube and how likely I am to be nauseous from the gas they're going to pump into me and how air bubbles might get trapped under my diaphragm and be really sore for days...

I am not sure why I agreed to this.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Ashlah » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:47 pm UTC

I'm not sure what specific procedure you're having done, but I had a laparoscopic abdominal surgery a few months back. I didn't have any issues with the breathing tube or nausea the day of surgery (I did get nauseous the next day, presumably from the painkillers. Puking after your abs have been cut open is not great. I'd suggest getting a prescription for anti nausea meds, if you're open to it.) I was also worried about the catheter, but it didn't cause any trouble either.

And the gas trapped inside afterwards is pretty weird. Mine went up into my shoulders. One night it was super painful, but most of the time things just felt a little "off" and really tight.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Moo! It's definitely not fun, but you'll get through it.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:02 am UTC

Moo wrote:I'm lying in a hospital bed waiting for my laparoscopy. The anaesthetist has just been here explaining about putting in a drip and a breathing tube and how likely I am to be nauseous from the gas they're going to pump into me and how air bubbles might get trapped under my diaphragm and be really sore for days...

I am not sure why I agreed to this.

umm. I thought it was something about wanting to carry another baby.
I'm so sorry you have to have a medical procedure. I hope you are well.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Moo » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:22 am UTC

Thank you.

Haven't been too nauseous, although there's definitely gas trapped on my right side, and that shoulder hurts like heck, strong painkillers notwithstanding. A heat pack is helping a bit.

The drip freaked me out the most, I have bad veins and a history of bad experiences, so anything related to sticking things in my arm/hand makes me very anxious - especially if it wants to stay in there. Luckily I wasn't awake for very long after they put it in.

I just needed somewhere to freak out, didn't want to worry my family with my ramblings. Thanks for being there, Woman Thread.

Doc removed one fibroid, he's pretty happy with how it went.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Quercus » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:31 am UTC

Yay! Moo's back from surgery, and it went well :) (was thinking about you, and hoping it would go well). Hope your pain goes away soon, and the rest of your recovery goes smoothly. Take care of yourself *hugs gently, if wanted, avoiding right side*

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:46 am UTC

Sungura wrote:Does anyone else have problems getting listened to by doctors? It seems I can only get proper medical attention and am listened to about my own body when I take a male friend.

So yea, late to the party, but I have the same problem, especially when it comes to mental problems.

I have a long history of problematic treatments when it comes to my mental issues. I spent most of my teens being so drugged up by various doctors that I don't remember most of them. I've been (mis)diagnosed with pretty much every mental condition between heaven and hell and have gotten so used to people giving more heed to their personal assumptions (and, you know, some pretty heavy breaches of privacy and confidentiality) than listening to what I'm actually saying, that it's become really hard to have any faith in anyone who's supposed to help me out.

Add this with some bad experiences with doctors when it comes to physical problems cause I don't really express that I'm in pain in a way doctors consider genuine (kidney stones blamed on period pains, being told my broken bones were just me whining too much etc.) and I've got some serious trust issues talking with doctors at all.

So for the last few years I've been bouncing between doctors, and I don't really feel anyone's listening to me when I try to explain things unless the things I explain are very obvious. They've dealt pretty well with my broken arm and burning my hand, I try to explain that I'm spiralling into depression and want to die and I get the "it's not so bad, lighten up!"-attitude. I also don't feel anyone understands how eating disorders actually work, I try to breach the subject and I'm told "just eat a healthy and balanced diet!" I guess part of the problem is that I tend to put on a really positive attitude when dealing with authorities, in order to avoid them disliking me and thus purposedly trying to make my life hell, which in turn means they don't take me seriously when I say I have problems or am in pain.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Echo244 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:52 am UTC

Yay for Moo being back from surgery, hope the recovery goes well.

And yeah, I think the doctors are dealing with the things they can see and understand, AngrySquirrel, and failing at the things they don't understand and can't see right in front of them. Would it help to keep some sort of diary of how things are for a little while, so you can show them how things are when you're not in positive-attitude-to-deal-with-authorities mode? Would any of the doctors pay attention to that?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Artemisia » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:26 am UTC

@Moo: hope you recover well!

@related doc discussion: I've not had the best experience with docs the past few times, but apart from hassle I have no complaints about the overall quality and as we have mandatory health insurance, I do pay 110 Euros or so per month but I never have to worry I have to pay for necessary medical procedures. Although I finally found a nice GP practice in the UK, I ended up paying a lot more for the NHS than I now do for my insurance and get overall generally better health care.

in other unrelated news that I posted elsewhere on the fora too but had to share here because I need female commiserations (I feel like a whiner given the serious issues being discussed right now but I'm sure the Woman Thread understands) :
My bf and I are discussing moving in together but he seems super-sensitive about the topic and has a wish list that is just endless. I feel like he is not taking my wishes into consideration and I also feel like I need to tip-toe to ensure he still wants to pursue the moving in scenario. I do not feel comfortable about this! I like the idea of taking the next step together, but I am very happy where I live right now and I rather keep the relationship where it is in its current state than feeling like I am the only one who needs to compromise in order to live together. It would be nice if I felt he's actually on board with the plan rather than doing this for me.
This too shall pass

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Echo244 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:07 am UTC

<Offers hugs>

Talk to him. I dunno, if he's doing this for you, but it's not what you want... hopefully there's a way to both be happy about not doing it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby poxic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:57 pm UTC

If he's not ready to compromise, he's not ready to be a roommate. Or a husband, or a parent, or any of the rest of it. Enjoy him in the state he's currently in and maybe he'll mature a bit along the way.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:03 pm UTC

poxic wrote:If he's not ready to compromise, he's not ready to be a roommate. Or a husband, or a parent, or any of the rest of it. Enjoy him in the state he's currently in and maybe he'll mature a bit along the way.

Seconded.

Spoiler:
Who is guy, Sherman from The Big Bang?
He'll have sex with you? That's good.

I do not feel comfortable about this!
Spoiler:
I like the idea of taking the next step together, but
I am very happy where I live right now and I rather keep the relationship where it is in its current state than feeling like I am the only one who needs to compromise in order to live together. It would be nice if I felt he's actually on board with the plan rather than doing this for me.

Gee.
If someone I loved said that to me...
What would I say in response?

Umm. Poxic is so much nicer than I am.
(if I don't capitalize your name, it turns into toxic.)
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby poxic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:07 pm UTC

addams wrote:(if I don't capitalize your name, it turns into toxic.)

(That was more or less its origin. I came up with it when all my other choices were unavailable (at another site, maybe ebay?), which annoyed me very much.)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Artemisia » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:28 pm UTC

thanks all. We had a good talk yesterday, turned out I misinterpreted his signals, he's backed down on a few variables and said he's definitely on board, it just shows in a different way than how I am preparing for it.

For those interested: here is my lengthier explanation

@addams: I am unsure what you mean. I am reading: "if you were my OH and said that you are happy with where you are right now, I'd feel hurt"
Is that what you mean?
What I meant was that I think it's essential to come from a good place and stepping into/enjoying a relationship in addition to a life that already feels good, rather than hoping a relationship would fix your life. I don't need to live with him to be happy with him, though I do consider moving in together an added bonus. (He was very apprehensive in the early start of our relationship and he came round slowly, knowing I was also happy with the status quo)

[edit] Dear Woman thread, sorry for continuing to cross-reference, but if no one has mentioned yet that we should all read Come as you are by Emily Nagoski, I hereby do.
It is impossible to summarise what's in the book, but it had a profound impression on me. Anyone with body issues or who would like to understand more about their sexuality, this is the book to read.
Here is my full recommendation
This too shall pass

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:01 pm UTC

Artemisia wrote:thanks all. We had a good talk yesterday, turned out I misinterpreted his signals, he's backed down on a few variables and said he's definitely on board, it just shows in a different way than how I am preparing for it.

For those interested: here is my lengthier explanation

@addams: I am unsure what you mean. I am reading: "if you were my OH and said that you are happy with where you are right now, I'd feel hurt"
Is that what you mean?

ahh! I don't know!
What is an OH?
It's not a hydroxyl unit!

If you were someone I knew and loved,
I would worry if you were putting your happiness at risk.

You wrote, "I am happy."
If something or someone adds to your happiness; Do That.
If something or someone detracts from your happiness; Don't Do That.

I know.
In life there are many things we do as a Gamble on future happiness.

If you gamble.
I hope you win.

Spoiler:
What do the Wise Guys say?
"Don't gamble more than you can afford to lose."

Sometimes, in life, we do not gamble willingly.
That, Dear Women, is a different story.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Artemisia » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:04 am UTC

Thanks addams! I get it now (:
OH means Other Half. I think the fora uses SO, Significant Other more frequently.
This too shall pass

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby addams » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:50 pm UTC

By happenstance, I ended up in a strange three some.
(pervs; stop now;)

Three woman were required by the confines of an automobile to be in close quarters.
It was a bit of a Road Trip. I don't mind stepping into the role of ...

Chairwoman of the Female Three Stooges.
Nah...We were not That bad. (shrug)

Do you like all girl Events?
...It kind'a depends on the Event. Right?

I was arested.
jeeze. More than once.

That is an All Girl Event.
For the most part it was, for me.
Spoiler:
One time I had been arrested:
I was put into a locked from the outside room with women I had never seen before.

We had all been given a blanket.
We had settled down for what rest we could get.

Each one of us was tired.
Getting arrested is hard work.

After arrest, we were all thrown in, together.
We instinctively formed a circle.

(I thank God and what the US used to be for my education, Everyday.)

We told our stories.
What happened?
Why are you here?

It seems, I was last.
When asked, I became, kind'a, catatonic.

So they started making Guesses.
When I either laughed or gasped, That was my Diagnosis from The Group.

My crime was High Class Whore. (so, funny)

In the night, 3am, when the human bodies circadian rhythm drops,
The Lights were All Turned On! a group of One Man with other men as back up;

Came in, ordered us up and took us to a room that had been recently Hosed Down.
He said we were moving because they had to clean. The wet room had Lights Out.

We were a bunch of women that had been though Hell.
Some were not used to being treaded like that.

Some were ...violent criminals with a very low self control index.
Thank (fucking) God! The lights were out!

First one woman then another sat down and said, "It's not so bad."
There were small screams as women sat down in little puddles of cold water.

I used my hands to test the surface and recommended it to the people nearest me.
Everyone was talking about what a fucked up bunch of AssHoles 'They' were.

It was angry talk.
The woman next to me and I started to talk about something else.
I started telling her a Fairy Tale of Aasope or Greek Gods or Something.

The woman next to her started listening.
It wasn't long before I was telling the Greek Myth of
Persephone and her Mother Demeter.

This is the way someone might tell the story.
http://www.mythicarts.com/writing/Persephone.html.

This is what Wikipedia has to say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persephone

Some of the roughest woman yelled at me to "Shut The Fuck Up, Bitch!.
The other woman, many of them said, "No. Don't stop. Tell us The Story."

Not one of those women had ever heard that story, before.
It was an all Girl Event.

Sometimes when they arrested me, it was not an event, at all.
I was put in a cage; All by myself.

Being alone is better than being with Mean Girls.
Nice girls are a lot better than being all alone in a fucking cage.

I forgot what my Point was.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Artemisia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:25 pm UTC

addams wrote:By happenstance, I ended up in a strange three some.
(pervs; stop now;)


I was confused and amused by your story. Sounds like an experience at the very least. and yay for not being stuck there.

The opening line was especially funny, as if you casually walked into a threesome. ...as one does...

Did anyone read my book recommendation yet? I am such an advocate, I cannot stop emphasising how all women need to read it!

in other womanly news, I was told by my boyfriend I had a typically female over-reaction to something he said. I certainly did over-react so he was right about that, but I can't help cringing at the stereotyping...
This too shall pass

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Quercus » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:33 pm UTC

Artemisia wrote:Did anyone read my book recommendation yet? I am such an advocate, I cannot stop emphasising how all women need to read it!

[Raises hand sheepishly]. I'm about 3 chapters in and it's great. I'm not a woman, but It's still been well worth reading so far, because a) It's also relevant to lots of people (including me) from the point of view of having female partners and b) it's really clear on which bits are universal human stuff, and which bits tend to be different between men and women - and it emphasizes that these are mostly only tendencies, and male and female sexuality is in some ways an overlapping spectrum often with more within-gender variation than between-gender variation.

It also is the only thing on sexuality that I've ever read that explicitly acknowledges trans* people (including non-binary people) and intersex people, which earns it major brownie points from me. Admittedly she Emily1 (the author) says that there is very little research on trans* sexuality, so she can't really address it in a book focused on scientific evidence, so the book is basically about cisgender women, but if you're going to write a book based on published evidence, that's unfortunately about the best you can do at the moment (that said, I wouldn't recommend it for transwomen with dysphoria, because she's very affirming of cis female bodies, which is great in general, but probably not ideal if you're a woman whose body doesn't match that).

Oh, and for those who haven't seen it this is Artemisia's recommendation.

1Just realised I should probably actually use people's names when referring to them.
Last edited by Quercus on Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:19 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Artemisia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:13 pm UTC

[=

did I mention the book really hit a nerve? I'm extremely rational and don't have an awful lot of patience with my own feelings. Emily is having none of that and explains simply and factually why that kind of attitude is not helpful. I had to put the book down at times because I was a bit overwhelmed. For me this was mini-therapy.
This too shall pass

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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Sungura » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:24 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
Artemisia wrote:Did anyone read my book recommendation yet? I am such an advocate, I cannot stop emphasising how all women need to read it!
for those who haven't seen it this is Artemisia's recommendation.

I actually missed that post I guess, but I find it interesting and maybe I should get the book.

edit: was at a bookstore today and saw it so i got it. I shall see if it is helpful at all to my current problems.
Last edited by Sungura on Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

Postby Quercus » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:43 pm UTC

Sungura wrote:So...does the book address any of that?

I would say from what I've read so far that it likely does address lots of that, but just in case Artemisia doesn't get back to you feel free to pester me in a couple of weeks once I've had a chance to read the whole thing and I'll let you know for definite.


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