[SAFESPACE] Woman Thread - All Things Women. Period.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:48 pm UTC

I am a slim to medium sized women, and I think in general larger women and smaller women have problems. And I have problems. Being female leads to being judged first by appearance and second by whatever characteristic we present the strongest.

That said, all clothing is made to make people feel bad. That's why sizes 0-14 are sold in most stores while anything larger needs a 'plus' sized store. This can lead to feeling like an outcast. Tiny itty bitty women (I know some, they is little, like they make me look like an amazon. no wonder I enjoy their company (I like being the big strong one) anyway) still feel too fat.

Not that all women dislike their appearance, but we are all told we need to work harder to look better. From hair removal to clothing to makeup to working out to what shoes we wear. It is hard enough just being female and being judged simply for being in public. Let's not get into which of us has it the worst.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:24 pm UTC

Yes, exactly.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Felstaff » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:20 pm UTC

crowey wrote:more from the world of horrifying underwear: the ass-bra :|

Holy heck! The whole website appears to be solely strange undergarments for white wimmin to catch up with their black counterparts. In the arse department*. When will this 'kachunga booty' fad end, anyhow? Body shapes and sizes in vogue often only last a decade or so, so come 2010, my reckoning's on chin-hair to be the 'next big desirable thing'.

*Or naturally increase boobage size so your breasts look like they were drawn by a randy 13 year old boy, who has no concept of shape, only size.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Grincement » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:28 pm UTC

I really feel that there would be less people suffering from body issues if clothes were made to fit people rather than people trying to fit into clothes.

I'm a very petite frame, size 4 - 6 (UK), that's american size 0 - 2. Finding clothes to fit properly is hard work, but even my friends who could be considered "average" size still struggle to find clothes that fit them.

I know in Italy they were using CCTV footage to reassess the sizes of women...I feel it's about time something was done about the rubbish fitting clothes we're all forced to buy.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby existential_elevator » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:32 pm UTC

Squeak wrote:I'm a very petite frame, size 4 - 6 (UK), that's american size 0 - 2. Finding clothes to fit properly is hard work, but even my friends who could be considered "average" size still struggle to find clothes that fit them.


I'm the same. It doesn't help being short, as well. Most jeans either fit in length but require a tight belt to not slide down past my hips, or fit in waist but were built for someone six foot tall.

When I lost weight, I had to stop being goth. Just because nothing fitted me anymore.

In general, I've noticed that most stores seem to have different sizing to each other [fitting in line with "vanity" sizing, such that the clothes in more expensive places typically have "generous" sizing], and that the size I see most of in racks is usually 12-16.

This all really adds up to why I avoid doing clothes shopping, ever.

[on the good news front though, I've finally gained a little weight, and can almost wear an 8. And I've gained two cup sizes, it seems! w00t!]

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

When it comes to pants I have sizes 3-9 that all fit me. Sizes make no sense. I sort of wish they would just use men's sizing (actual size of waist and inseam) but then women would be strange about clothing more so than they are now.
I bought a really awesome jacket
Spoiler:
Image
Image
edited for pic size
That says it is a size 14. My roommate was shocked and after telling me it was super cute had to tell me many times that it is not really a 14, that I am smaller than that (because when I held up the jacket she noticed the color then the size - it is purple and black with silver in case it is not clear). The thing it I don't care if it is a 14. I look good in it.
That is the part that should matter right?
Last edited by sophyturtle on Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Cassi » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:08 pm UTC

Screw sizes. It was bad enough moving to England and having my size double (6 -> 12). The fact that shops can't even manage consistent sizing within themselves leaves no hope for sizing between shops...It's frustrating, so I have to really be in the mood for clothes shopping or I give up. I *have* gotten very good at judging what will fit me just by holding it up, though, which is useful. I'm still learning to do my best to ignore sizes, though...
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby PictureSarah » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

sophyturtle wrote:The thing it I don't care if it is a 14. I look good in it.
That is the part that should matter right?


That is the thing that matters, but it's also very inconvenient that sizes are so inconsistent...because I'm usually a size 12/14, and I'm pretty sure that anything that fits you would be far too small for me (and potentially too long in the arms/legs).
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby cephalopod9 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:36 pm UTC

I do not understand the fashion industry in the least.

Barely related, my room mate offered to let me read her copy of Elle magazine from april before she recycled it, so I flipped past a million ads to see if there were any good articles. After I finished this one about Montegomery McFate (she's an anthropologist trying to help the American military teach people to not be huge bastards over in Iraq and neat stuff of that sort) and I thought "that's cool, this must be a cool magazine for including that article. I wonder how I would know to buy this magazine?" I WOULDN'T. Except for THE SMALLEST print on the cover just barely admitting that this is their "Intelligent Women Issue", absolutely nothing in any way indicates there's anything other than new expensive ways for your body to be inadiquate in there.

In other news, the diva cup is working out fairly awesome, and I've figured out that the cramp feelings are worse when it gets cold (like if I don't wait for the water to warm up when I wash it out). Although, I feel like I'm going through a lot of toilet paper...
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:03 am UTC

sophyturtle wrote:That says it is a size 14. My roommate was shocked and after telling me it was super cute had to tell me many times that it is not really a 14, that I am smaller than that (because when I held up the jacket she noticed the color then the size - it is purple and black with silver in case it is not clear). The thing it I don't care if it is a 14. I look good in it.
That is the part that should matter right?

Right! And that reminded me of Fat Rant 1! The relevant part being at around 2:30.

People, people, everyone should watch these videos, ESPECIALLY #3, and #3 ESPECIALLY from 4:30 on. We're talking Sarah Haskins level brilliance. Don't have to be fat to be amazed at the awesome.

Fat Rant 1
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Jessica » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:50 pm UTC

Yay clothing sizes! I can bitch about them!

So, yeah. I truely despise being the size I am. Right on the edge of most stores and the plus size. Because of my shoulders I can't fit into fitted shirts unless I get like a 1x, but I'll wear size 14 jeans/pants with no problem. XL stretchy/cotton/t-shirts are perfectly fine.

:\

I'm glad I have a friend who's like the same size as me... or at least close. She lends me her clothes from time to time... I need to take her out shopping with me again to find good clothes.

Whatever.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:44 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Body shapes and sizes in vogue often only last a decade or so, so come 2010, my reckoning's on chin-hair to be the 'next big desirable thing'.


And I am soooo ahead of the trendy curve there.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby vqcg » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:40 pm UTC

I hate clothing sizes cause how can ONE SIZE give any kind of reasonable idea of what size the clothing is in multiple places. This is important since women go in-and-out in different places to HUGELY differing degrees. I can buy a 6 or a 12 (UK sizing) depending on
a) brand
b) item of clothing, and
c) where it's most important it fits (i.e. I have button-up shirts that can't be tight around the bust so I have to get ones that are huge on my waist, and I have a suit jacket with only one button at about waist level, so I got a 6)
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Sebeka2 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:21 pm UTC

Ha, don't forget stores like Chico's that size everything super tiny -- where 1 = 8/10, 2 = 12/14, etc (using US sizing).
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Felstaff » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:58 am UTC

helen wrote:
Felstaff wrote:Body shapes and sizes in vogue often only last a decade or so, so come 2010, my reckoning's on chin-hair to be the 'next big desirable thing'.


And I am soooo ahead of the trendy curve there.

Why...why do I find that...curiously, uh, alluring?

And why the hell don't clothiers get together and unify the standard? A size 12, or 36, or 4 or whatever should have identical measurements across the board. Or at least overhaul the sizing system so you can pick up clothing that you know will fit before you try it on. Why would different clothes (such as grundercrackers and boobsnugglers) use the same single-number method, when I know few people who are the same size on top as the bottom anyway.

You wimminfolk, and gentlefolk-that-dress-as-wimminfolk, must have it so hard. I love the Neanderthalic method of walking into [generic clothing shop], grabbing the first thing that you grunt at, taking it to the prettiest check-out girl, and exchanging money for goods. It's no different than buying a Snickers.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby wing » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:29 am UTC

God, I'm a man and we have the same problems with sizes. A sizable percentage of us fit into sizes 34-38.... When we're under the age of 18. Beyond that, most of us require something in the 40's.
Nobody carries 40. 42 is common. 44, 46 and 48 are impossible to locate in regular stores because everyone that wears them snatches them up quickly. Big and Tall shops often don't carry anything under 50.

End result? There are a lot of men with like 2 pairs of pants and endless seas of size 34 sitting on racks waiting to have clearance tags attached. Oddly enough, we do not have this problem with shirts. Tee shirts, you can find equal quantities of every size from XS to XXX in prettymuch any department store. Other shirts are a little more small-biased, but the large sizes actually exist.

To keep things on topic, J is a size 18. But only at Old Navy and only in a certain style. It fits and it's comfortable. Each store gets an allocation of exactly 1 pair in that size and style. She will literally wear that pair every day until she can locate another copy - washing only every few wears. (Note that I am still not allowed to wear the same thing 2 days in a row. I'm not even allowed to wear another copy of what I wore yesterday because she's afraid I'm really just rewearing the dirty ones. wtf?)

And lets talk for a minute about shoe shopping. WHY OH GOD WHY IS THERE NEVER A DUPLICATE COPY OF A CUTE SHOE IN THE NEXT SIZE UP!?
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Furkins » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:41 am UTC

I hate clothesshopping. For several reasons.
1. Nothing really fits. I hate buying pants because I always feel like the fattest pig on earth because I often don't fit the biggest size in the store (42, which is about a 10-12 in US sizes)
2. My broad shoulders don't fit into Tshirts
3. Bras are too tight around my chest because my ribcage is enourmous
4. Clothes are always too short (especially shirts because my upper body is very long) because 6 feet women dont seem to be the norm
5. I have no money and finding clothes that fit, look nice and are not too expensive is nearly impossible in this cheese country.

/edit: try finding cute womens shoes size 45... if you find out where to get them for cheap, LET ME KNOW!

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby MoonBuggy » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:15 pm UTC

Just to join in with the male invasion for a second, you'd be surprised how liberally the inch can be interpreted. I'm sure it's not remotely as bad as having sizes defined by arbitrary numbers, but we can still easily have the fun of jeans with a size 'x' waist having completely different actual waistbands depending on where they are purchased from. One of the online shops that I particularly like has taken to posting a little note at the bottom of each item saying "Our model has an 'x' inch waist and a 'y' inch chest. He is wearing a size 'z' in this item.", which is nice.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby eternal luna » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:18 pm UTC

Eugh, (my) menstrual blood smells absolutely feral. How did Ms. Greer ever suggest tasting it?
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:55 pm UTC

You know there's a problem with sizing when no matter what body size and shape we are, we all have problems getting clothes that fit. I'm quite little (as those on the post yo fehs page have just found out...) so either I've taken up my pants, rolled them up, or they have ratty ends (it's impossible to take up jeans without changing the entire cut of them, for some reason), and some shops are totally out of the question to shop in: I don't fit a Target size 6 in pants or skirts. I could be wearing anything from a size 6 to a size 12 or 14 shirt, depending on where I've bought it, and don't even get me started on bra sizes.
/rant

eternal luna wrote:Eugh, (my) menstrual blood smells absolutely feral. How did Ms. Greer ever suggest tasting it?


That's... not appetising at all. Yucky, in fact.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Moo » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:03 pm UTC

I'm all for loving your body and accepting your womanhood and all it's processes, but as far as I'm concerned menstrual blood is a bodily fluid, and I don't go about tasting my bodily fluids. Would she advise we should also taste our pee?
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:20 pm UTC

Moo wrote:I'm all for loving your body and accepting your womanhood and all it's processes, but as far as I'm concerned menstrual blood is a bodily fluid, and I don't go about tasting my bodily fluids. Would she advise we should also taste our pee?


My thoughts exactly. According to my OTT angry feminist friend this means I am oppressed as a woman and should be ashamed :roll:
Why on earth does tasting menstrual blood make one freer as a woman? It just means you tasted a waste product from your body. It's coming out for a reason!

Other things I never want to taste: Placenta, umbilical cord, amneotic fluid, pus, poo and pee.
Last edited by crowey on Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Moo » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:24 pm UTC

The satisfying nature of your alliteration is in stark contrast to the icky mental picture conjured by your post :)
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:35 pm UTC

I aim to please.

I also spelt it umbilical chord, which in my mind is some kind of harmony played on an instrument stringed with umbilical cords, somewhat like cat gut strings on a violin.....


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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:28 pm UTC

Moo wrote:The satisfying nature of your alliteration is in stark contrast to the icky mental picture conjured by your post :)

Should have put "placenta" towards the end of the sentence, though, to have more of the alliteration. :-)

But yeah, while as a man I never feel it's my place to voice such opinions, and while I do appreciate that for *some* women doing things with menstrual blood can be liberating or whatever, I really don't get why the pro-menstrual-art people see it as so incredibly different from other things our bodies discard.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:34 pm UTC

I'm not sure how I feel, personally, but it's different on account of being both blood and ...vaginal. (Somebody aside from we're-trying-to-scare-you wannabe-gothkids has tried writing in their own blood, right?) And oral contact with vaginal juices is not a big deal.

I'm probably only ambivalent because I haven't seen mine in a while, and when it comes back I'll be all oh god i wish this never happened.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby existential_elevator » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:45 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote: I really don't get why the pro-menstrual-art people see it as so incredibly different from other things our bodies discard.


Put simply, shit never grew babies.

[edit: also, I imagine blood is easier to paint with than most other bodily fluids.]

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:01 pm UTC

helen wrote: And oral contact with vaginal juices is not a big deal.


vaginal juices aren't a waste product that my body is trying to get rid of because it's no longer good.

existential_elevator wrote:
gmalivuk wrote: I really don't get why the pro-menstrual-art people see it as so incredibly different from other things our bodies discard.


Put simply, shit never grew babies.

[edit: also, I imagine blood is easier to paint with than most other bodily fluids.]


Nor did menstrual blood, that's why it's menstural blood and not a placenta, or whatever. I really don't get the whole *woo, menstural blood is all magic like*. I don't want to eat my gut flora, but they do cool stuff all the time.

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:06 pm UTC

Haven't we mentioned before that the globs and things are sort of interesting to look at? Granted, I wouldn't take it so far as to ask others to look at my menstrual blood, but I do find said menstrual blood is fascinating. Also, don't overlook the power of symbolism. There are other body fluids that carry more emotional connotations in our society, perhaps, tears or breast milk, but like e_e said, not the best to paint with and less readily on tap.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:08 pm UTC

I think blood is pretty awesome. I keep wanting to make art with it.
part of what I like it that it looks a lot like normal blood. And I can take more of it without dying or anything.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

I've been "working" on a project involving menstrual blood in art. I think it's a little icky, but also very pretty. The inspiration behind it was at first to make fun of my snobby art school profs, but once I got to thinking about it I started to take it more seriously. When I watch tv (extremely rarely) I see commercial after commercial for "feminine hygiene products." From "feminine wash," to "feminine deodorizer" to scented tampons and pads...anyone would think that women are the most disgustingly dirty creatures on earth to need so many cleaning products for our ladybits. I resent that, so my project has sort of become a comment on that.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby crowey » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

Those adverts really piss me off. Scented tampons? Seriously, who is going to be sniffing all the way up there?

I don't get blood art, I don't get the symbolism of menstrual blood. I'm a very literal girl I think.... :|

To the last 3 posters, would you taste it?

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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby Quixotess » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:30 pm UTC

No. Blood with mucus makes me gag, I get enough of that from bloody noses. Touched it though. Then washed my hands.

PictureSarah, that sounds awesome and is probably a reason that a lot of the menstrual art crowd have. Because we do get sent the message that we should be ashamed of menstruation/other sexual characteristics, and this is a pretty bold way of saying "I am not ashamed." If nothing else, getting people to talk about it is pretty admirable.
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:33 pm UTC

I'm not really using the blood to symbolize anything. I'm just saying "Just because I'm a woman doesn't make me unclean, menstruation is not shameful or even really objectionable."

I've tasted it too. Not on purpose, though, and not very much. More like I got some on my hands while drying off after a shower during girlweek, and sort of had a reflex of licking my finger. It tasted like blood. Unremarkable.
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existential_elevator
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby existential_elevator » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

I wouldn't have a problem with tasting it, but I am obviously not about to go drink half a cup. And, well, I imagine it just tastes salty.

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sophyturtle
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby sophyturtle » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:01 pm UTC

I think it smells great, and would have no problem tasting it (say there were girl week sexy times, things happen)
I know guys who give head during girl week too, they say the blood is no big deal and just tastes like blood.
I want to get to a place where I am neither conforming nor rebelling but simply being.

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hermaj
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby hermaj » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:09 am UTC

PictureSarah wrote:I've tasted it too. Not on purpose, though, and not very much. More like I got some on my hands while drying off after a shower during girlweek, and sort of had a reflex of licking my finger. It tasted like blood. Unremarkable.


Yeah, I had something similar, I thought I'd nicked my finger with the razor and licked only to find there was no cut. It's just blood. I couldn't really imagine tasting a significant amount of it, though, on purpose. I don't think that is empowering, I just think it is kind of weird. (That said, I think the same of Germaine Greer.)


crowey wrote:Those adverts really piss me off. Scented tampons? Seriously, who is going to be sniffing all the way up there?


I buy scented liners and stuff. I don't see much of a problem with that - the blood when it is purely blood is fine, but when it's at the tail end of the cycle, it is not pleasant stuff to deal with. I would rather not have to smell it myself, nor feel insecure about others being able to smell it. Like if I've been working out or something, since sweat seems to enhance that particular scent. It's more comfortable for me that way. *shrugs*

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LL Cool J
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby LL Cool J » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:18 am UTC

hermaj wrote:I buy scented liners and stuff. I don't see much of a problem with that - the blood when it is purely blood is fine, but when it's at the tail end of the cycle, it is not pleasant stuff to deal with. I would rather not have to smell it myself, nor feel insecure about others being able to smell it. Like if I've been working out or something, since sweat seems to enhance that particular scent. It's more comfortable for me that way. *shrugs*


Agreed, it's more like body odour than anything shameful. I'd just rather smell nice, you know? Scented liners are no different to wearing deodorant, I figure.
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lorenith
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Re: Woman thread - NO HOMERS CLUB

Postby lorenith » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:37 am UTC

I hate the way scented pads smell, I tried some out once before getting my cup, and hated it. (They also seemed to just be more prominent and stinky than a normal one would be so seem to defeat the purpose of being scented).

I've noticed lately that the blood that comes out is more and more often filled with solid parts that don't want to break down so easily, and I think it's a little odd but still intersting to look at. Really annoying in the shower though when I empty my cup in there, since they clog the drain.


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