Boy Thread: put a hat on ur butt

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby space_raptor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:29 pm UTC

There are some things that lesbians just can't do on their own. There's also plenty of women who would get absolutely nothing out of sex with another woman, much like getting a blowjob from a man would not be particularly fun for me.
Last edited by space_raptor on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:30 pm UTC

Why be proud of the genes in that case? Be proud of the accomplishments.

That's like saying "I'm really proud of my hammer, because I built a bookshelf".

Except it would have to be some kind of freaky situation where you weren't even sure if the hammer helped. I dunno, I don't have an analogy here.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Sprocket » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:31 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:You forgot "Pleasuring a woman".

Although with the advent of strap-ons, I guess even that is being taken away from us. Damn feminists.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:32 pm UTC

Sure. But I'm allowed to occasionally look at my hammer lovingly, and maybe I'll talk about my hammer with my friends.

No entendre intended.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:35 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:There are some things that lesbians just can't do on their own. There's also plenty of women who would get absolutely nothing out of sex with another woman, much like getting a blowjob from a man would not be particularly fun for me.


There are also a fair number of women who would get absolutely nothing out of sex with you.

No matter what your configuration, some people will be attracted to you or enjoy copulating with you, and some won't.

dubsola wrote:Sure. But I'm allowed to occasionally look at my hammer lovingly, and maybe I'll talk about my hammer with my friends.

No entendre intended.


The bookshelf is far more interesting, and says more about you.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:36 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:There are some things that lesbians just can't do on their own. There's also plenty of women who would get absolutely nothing out of sex with another woman, much like getting a blowjob from a man would not be particularly fun for me.


Well, presumably you would get nothing out of a blowjob from anothing man because you are heterosexual, and not because men don't have the capability to be just as skilled as women at blowjobs...because I have heard glowing reports from men who have received blowjobs from other men. If a woman gets absolutely nothing out of sex with another woman, it's probably because she isn't sexually attracted to other women, not because women are incapable of pleasing another woman in the same way that a man can. And really...no, there isn't anything that "lesbians just can't do on their own" that I can think of, with the exception of getting another woman pregnant.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby space_raptor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:39 pm UTC

I think we are taking my strap on joke a bit too seriously, here.

And really...no, there isn't anything that "lesbians just can't do on their own" that I can think of, with the exception of getting another woman pregnant.


Hah! The creation of a new life! A wonderful example of something based solely on your genes, and something that requires a man to do. Fatherhood!
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby ZeroSum » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:44 pm UTC

Well, until genetic engineering figures out how to take one X from one woman and put it in the other woman's egg...

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:46 pm UTC

Hah! The creation of a new life! A wonderful example of something based solely on your genes, and something that requires a man to do. Fatherhood!


....congratulations, you can carry out basic biological functions like breeding? You are exactly as awesome as a field mouse?

Would you like a party?
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:49 pm UTC

Belial wrote:The bookshelf is far more interesting, and says more about you.
This almost feels like a compliment, but unfortunately I've never built a bookshelf before.

Well, I've been beaten. Your point is totally valid, and I have not disagreed at all - men and women, in their accomplishments, are almost equally matched. You seem to be missing my point - this is the man thread, and it can be a place where we can celebrate things that are traditionally associated with being manly. Females are more than welcome to join in the fun, if they enjoy bacon or have constructed a bookshelf, it's not exclusive.

edit: and props to Hodge for the consummate burn.
Last edited by dubsola on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:51 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:50 pm UTC

You seem to be missing my point - this is the man thread, and it can be a place where we can celebrate things that are traditionally associated with being manly.


And as far as comedy goes, that can get pretty funny.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:51 pm UTC

Well, to be fair, just because procreation is a pretty basic thing, that, as you say, a field mouse could do does't mean it should be taken lightly. In fact the ability to bring more humans into the world is something I wish more people, men and women (although I think more men tend to take it less seriously because it's much more possible for them to not experience the consequences) would put a lot more importance on.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:52 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
You seem to be missing my point - this is the man thread, and it can be a place where we can celebrate things that are traditionally associated with being manly.


And as far as comedy goes, that can get pretty funny.
Indeed.

PictureSarah wrote:the ability to bring more humans into the world is something I wish more people, men and women would put a lot more importance on.
Me too. It's sad to see single mothers struggling.
Last edited by dubsola on Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:54 pm UTC

PictureSarah wrote:Well, to be fair, just because procreation is a pretty basic thing, that, as you say, a field mouse could do does't mean it should be taken lightly. In fact the ability to bring more humans into the world is something I wish more people, men and women (although I think more men tend to take it less seriously because it's much more possible for them to not experience the consequences) would put a lot more importance on.


Serious decision? Yes.

Great accomplishment? No.

The ability to do it isn't anything special. The ability to make good decisions regarding it has nothing to do with your gender.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:59 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Serious decision? Yes.

Great accomplishment? No.

The ability to do it isn't anything special. The ability to make good decisions regarding it has nothing to do with your gender.
I disagree - most guys are content to leave the practicalities to their partners, ignoring the potential consequences in terms of how any contraception will affect their partner, and of course if their partner gets pregnant.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:00 pm UTC

That's not something they do because they're male. That's something they do because they're assholes.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby space_raptor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:01 pm UTC

I said fatherhood, not just procreation. There's a difference.

Now I suppose you will point out that single women or even two women can raise children just fine, just as a woman could please a woman sexually. Granted. Men would still do these things differently. Like dubsola said, not trying to exclude women from any specific accomplishment. Just saying that there is a difference, and vive le difference, I say.

Furthermore... being a man is part of who I am. Just as being Canadian, and being a member of my family has shaped part of who I am. If I like my family, and think they are a good part of who I am... should I not be proud of being part of the family, even though there surely are other families who are also good?

Edit: Shoot. The Edit button is getting to be a bit addictive.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:03 pm UTC

They may well be assholes, but it's easier to ignore it as a male. Much easier.

Oh yeah, space_raptor reminded me - there is certainly a difference when a child is raised with no father.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:03 pm UTC

And any two fathers will raise their kids differently as well.

They may well be assholes, but it's easier to ignore it as a male. Much easier.


True. Their sex does allow them to be an asshole here. I guess that's up there among the "things being male allows you to do".

Not really anything to be proud of, though.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby rachel » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:05 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:They may well be assholes, but it's easier to ignore it as a male. Much easier.

Oh yeah, space_raptor reminded me - there is certainly a difference when a child is raised with no father.



There is a difference, yeah, but that is (usually) said with such a negative connotation attached to it. Just because a child lacks a father's influence doesn't mean that they're growing up any worse off than another child with a father. It's unfortunate, yes. It happens entirely too often. But the lack of a father in a child's life does not have to be a bad thing.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby ZeroSum » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:07 pm UTC

And two raptors wouldn't raise a kid at all. They'd eat it.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Cheese » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:16 pm UTC

Not all raptors are evil, nasty child-eaters.
Just the ones here.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby dubsola » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:18 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
They may well be assholes, but it's easier to ignore it as a male. Much easier.
True. Their sex does allow them to be an asshole here. I guess that's up there among the "things being male allows you to do". Not really anything to be proud of, though.
We were originally talking about things to be proud of, but obviously had moved on when I said this. It's really important for guys to take an interest in what is going on contraception-wise when they have sex, and a lot of them don't.

What options do guys have? Abstinence (not fun), pulling out (not reliable), condoms (excellent if you're not in a committed relationship, but they do have some drawbacks). Male contraception has been in development for some time, and although it is more difficult technically to make a pill for men, I can't help but think that the reason it took so long to get started was the attitude of 'it's the female's problem'.

rachel wrote:There is a difference, yeah, but that is (usually) said with such a negative connotation attached to it. Just because a child lacks a father's influence doesn't mean that they're growing up any worse off than another child with a father. It's unfortunate, yes. It happens entirely too often. But the lack of a father in a child's life does not have to be a bad thing.
Agreed, I didn't mean it with a negative connotation. It can be a bad thing, though, the kid might find things difficult with their male peers, if they don't have a positive male role model. Not necessarily, of course.

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Cheese » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:29 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:It can be a bad thing, though, the kid might find things difficult with their male peers, if they don't have a positive male role model. Not necessarily, of course.
Many fathers aren't present for much of their child's life, anyway, staying at work (or for the less responsible ones, the pub) all the time, or only giving lavish gifts. I have several friends whose fathers never really talked to them (in actual conversation), and they're alright. The only bad thing I can see from this is bullying, but some children (and adults, too) will pick on anyone who is interesting or different, for whatever reason. Having a father can help quite a lot, but isn't 100% necessary.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:08 pm UTC

BlueNowhere wrote:
mrorange wrote:edit: also, alaska is bigger than texas *ducks and runs*

Yeah? Well, everything is bigger in Texas!

Nah, everything just *seems* bigger in Texas, because your state is so much smaller. Seriously, what you *think* is a reasonable 7 inches in your little state? Yeah, that's only about 4 inches in Alaska. Nothing to brag about.

dubsola wrote:
Belial wrote:The bookshelf is far more interesting, and says more about you.
This almost feels like a compliment, but unfortunately I've never built a bookshelf before.

I have. It's currently in PictureSarah's room. And it will most likely fall down before too long, since 1) there aren't actually any right angles in her room and 2) no one in her apartment had the right tools, so the metal screws are just screwed directly into the plaster, which isn't likely to hold them very well for very long. I know that, were I a real man, I would have remedied this situation with duct tape. But I take solace in at least not failing at manhood as much as these "guys" who sit down to pee...

(I was all prepared to write a serious response to some of the stupid crap people have said about things like sex and parenting, but I'm happy to see most of my points have already been made.)
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby MoonBuggy » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:14 pm UTC

I just made a sandwich that contained both bacon and fried bread as part of the filling :mrgreen:
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:24 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:I have. It's currently in PictureSarah's room. And it will most likely fall down before too long, since 1) there aren't actually any right angles in her room and 2) no one in her apartment had the right tools, so the metal screws are just screwed directly into the plaster, which isn't likely to hold them very well for very long. I know that, were I a real man, I would have remedied this situation with duct tape. But I take solace in at least not failing at manhood as much as these "guys" who sit down to pee...

(I was all prepared to write a serious response to some of the stupid crap people have said about things like sex and parenting, but I'm happy to see most of my points have already been made.)


The bookshelf is hanging tough, Greg. :) I don't think it's going to fall down, actually. Maybe if I put something ridiculously heavy on it.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Akula » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:46 pm UTC

There is one thing men can do that women can't.

Play an entertaining game of basketball.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Cheese » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:49 pm UTC

Wrong, there are plenty of good basketball games go on in PE at my school, and when all the males happen to be subbed off, the game's still quite good.

Being a foot taller than the rest of the players really helps in basketball. I love small people, exactly the same as I love every other size of person.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby space_raptor » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:09 pm UTC

I would much rather watch a girls basketball game than a guys league. Same goes for volleyball too. Actually, women's volleyball is one of the most entertaining sports I have ever watched.

:)
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Verator » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:35 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:I would much rather watch a girls basketball game than a guys league. Same goes for volleyball too. Actually, women's volleyball is one of the most entertaining sports I have ever watched.

:)


...and we all know exactly why you prefer those two sports when being played by women.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby eristic » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:48 pm UTC

space_raptor wrote:I would much rather watch a girls basketball game than a guys league. Same goes for volleyball too. Actually, women's volleyball is one of the most entertaining sports I have ever watched.

:)


Women's volleyball defined:
-women in spandex
-women with kneepads

Need there be anything else?
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Will » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:02 am UTC

Akula wrote:There is one thing men can do that women can't.

Play an entertaining game of basketball.
:lol:


I don't know if it was intended as such, but I took this statement as a Futurama reference.

*laughs at reference*
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:13 am UTC

MoonBuggy wrote:
Prole wrote:
Belial wrote:I'd prefer to just have a strong identity. My own.

Should being a man mean little or nothing to you then?

Yeah, I'd say so. Why build your identity on what people are expecting of you, especially when those expectations are defined by you being a member of a particular group.

Being a man is part of my identity. Just beacuse it is physical, tangible, biological rather than intellectual doesn't mean I should deny or ignore it. I don't define myself only as a man but I do define myself as the unique sum of all my qualities, each of which means a lot to me because the sum means a lot to me. That doesn't demand that I put down people who don't share this quality, or that I reduce the whole of my identity to this one part.
Akula wrote:There is one thing men can do that women can't.

Play an entertaining game of basketball.

Soooo wrong. The girls' bball team at my high school was miles better than the guys' team, and you can't tell me adding boobs to any physical activity makes it less entertaining. This is the man thread, after all.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Belial » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:42 am UTC

Being a man is part of my identity. Just beacuse it is physical, tangible, biological rather than intellectual doesn't mean I should deny or ignore it. I don't define myself only as a man but I do define myself as the unique sum of all my qualities, each of which means a lot to me because the sum means a lot to me. That doesn't demand that I put down people who don't share this quality, or that I reduce the whole of my identity to this one part.


Your eye color or your height are also part of what you are.

Unless you are extremely tall or short, or your eye color is "blind", it probably doesn't effect the way you behave over much.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:02 am UTC

Nor did I claim it did.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby space_raptor » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:38 am UTC

Verator wrote:...and we all know exactly why you prefer those two sports when being played by women.

As long as we're all on the same page. :D

Belial, you are taking this too far. Being male DOES affect the way you behave. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

You're telling me you think the differences between men and women are all in how they are raised? No "nature", just nurture? Genes got nothing to do with it?
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Solt » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:41 am UTC

Belial, you exemplify what is wrong with the perception of masculinity these days. As humorous as my post sounded, I really did mean it.

In my view, it's just plain foolish to deny the huge differences between men and women. I won't start the statistics and evidence game because I really don't have time right now. Though I will mention that only 10% of engineers in the US are women, and only 6% of mechanical engineers. And this is almost a century out from the women's rights movement. Is this partly due to discrimination against women? Certainly. But it just so happens that boys and girls take math and science in high school in equal proportions these days, and MORE women go to college than men- discrimination simply cannot account for the small presence of women in engineering. I bring up engineering because in modern times a lot of the big achievements associated with masculinity are related to engineering and the sciences.

Your gender, together with social conditioning, affects how you think, what you enjoy, and what you're good at, both physically and mentally. I'm not celebrating the genetics as much as I am the social conditioning, because along with this conditioning comes a certain sense of how you should define yourself. Courage, strength, knowledge, logic, ambition. These are all things that are associated with manliness and I don't see how you can encourage these values without that context.

I really think history would have turned out differently if women had played a prominent role. Now, I'm not making judgements about women here, I am trying to only address men in my arguments. We would not have had as many wars- you can't deny that wars have been critically important in advancing the state of humanity to where it is today. We would not have done a lot of things that we did for intangible reasons- like fund the Apollo Missions, or the American revolution. These points are meant to say nothing of any shortfalls in women, but rather to point out those events which were carried out, presumably, in the context of the same ideals which masculinity stands for. Did you know that in his manifesto, Gandhi lamented how "effeminate" British rule had made India and encouraged a return to masculinity as the basis of expelling the British? Again, certain things simply could not have happened without the masculine identity.

Masculinity is like a religion in that it teaches a set of values, but in this case they have a secular, popular basis and a history of positive contributions to society as well as wide acceptance.

Yes, you can define yourself outside the influence of masculinity. But I wonder, then, why you would value logic unless you were a scientist? If you would find strength and the courage to stand up for yourself (both physically and politically) a relevant trait? If you would be fine with allowing a base instinct like emotion to rule your life?
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,
produced a more reliable product. But sailors do
not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a
most annoying habit of splitting in two."
-J.W. Morris

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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:13 am UTC

By the way, I did not say that manliness was boring nonsensical shit and wanted to clarify that in my earlier post but forgot.
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Re: Man Thread: Setting Things on Fire Since 1.8 Million BCE

Postby Solt » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:23 am UTC

I see now that you said macho vs. wimp discussions were boring nonsensical shit. It is duly noted.

But you are still in favor of using a gender neutral basis for constructing your identity.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,

produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

-J.W. Morris


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