Portable Audio Devices

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dubsola
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Portable Audio Devices

Postby dubsola » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:12 am UTC

I searched, I did not find. Delete thread and redirect if my search-fu is weak. Just don't feed me to the raptors.

Any suggestions for a straightforward, large-capacitied portable audio device? My 30gb diddy is a year old, almost full, only lasts about an hour fully charged, and the little joystick thing is semi-broken. Cowon iAudios don't have the best build quality, do they?

I just want something that will work, simply and reliably. Don't care about video. Oh yeah, FLAC support would be nice.

...

iPod. Yeah, ok, every man, woman, child and their respective dogs have one, so they can't be that bad. I'm not convinced I shouldn't get one, my reasons against them are:

a. need to install iTunes, and it seems like you lose a bit of control with that particular piece of software, and I hear it's not so hot for Win systems; and
b. there are nuff horror stories of people losing their music libraries (they should've backed up!) when iTunes does some funny synching or some other terrible thing. The gf got a nano and it lost all the music on it after 2 months! I'd blame user error, but it was me who was operating it. :?

Are my fears unfounded? Any iPod/Tunes users here who know how to work this thing?

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Postby noouch » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:15 am UTC

I have a 2GB iPod nano with Rockbox installed. It doesn't require iTunes, you can just read directly from the file system without any fancy databases and libraries. It plays FLAC, OGG, and a load of other formats (even some tracked formats), and is fully customizable.
It does video too, but the screen is a bit small, and it sucks battery like mad (20 minutes playback will completely drain it).
You can get Rockbox for the video ipod as well, but it only plays MPEG2, so you sacrifice a bit of disk space for practical features.
Also, ipods are very durable compared to other players. Mine has survived the most unforgiving environments encountered during travel, and my dad has one that's nearly five years old and shows hardly any signs of quitting. I'd recommend it over any other player if you're willing to pay the price.

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Postby dubsola » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:34 pm UTC

noouch wrote:It doesn't require iTunes, you can just read directly from the file system without any fancy databases and libraries. It plays FLAC, OGG, and a load of other formats (even some tracked formats), and is fully customizable.


Sweet. Looks like it's been around for a while, which is good. I can't quite tell how easy it is to use in day-to-day operation though. Wonder how easy it is for people expecting an iPod interface to work out what's going on.

Also, ipods are very durable compared to other players. Mine has survived the most unforgiving environments encountered during travel, and my dad has one that's nearly five years old and shows hardly any signs of quitting. I'd recommend it over any other player if you're willing to pay the price.


That's the thing. I'm willing to pay a bit for something I use every day, y'know? I'm sick of things breaking so soon.

Thanks for that tip.

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Postby Hawknc » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm UTC

Proper battery care will help your iPod last a long time. My wife dunked her 2nd gen Nano in a gin & coke accidentally for about half an hour before noticing it; a few days of drying later and it was working fine with no problems. (Didn't even need to crack the damn thing open.) The battery is generally the problem, but that's going to be the case for any lithium-based battery when it gets used as intensively as music players are.

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Postby OmenPigeon » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:59 pm UTC

The other selling point for the iPod is that, well, they've sold so damn many of them.

Which is normally sort of a bad thing, right? I mean, we want to be OUR OWN UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS who are FREE THINKERS and NOT FOLLOWING THE HERD. But with the iPod, their ubiquity means that they get all the cool toys, like Rockbox, or awesome stickers.

So, yeah. Buy the same thing everyone else does, so you can buy more stuff.
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Postby noouch » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:05 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:Sweet. Looks like it's been around for a while, which is good. I can't quite tell how easy it is to use in day-to-day operation though. Wonder how easy it is for people expecting an iPod interface to work out what's going on.


It's not quite as simple as Apple's interface, but it's not that much harder to use. In addition to the apple-like database browser (the ipod appends new tracks database every time you add something new), it has a file browser so you can browse the file system directly, which is the method I prefer.

Depending on which theme you have selected, it will show you either loads of information (volume in dBFS, next track, bitrate, file format, proximity to next cat, etc...) or just the basics (track name, time, progress).

Overall it's pretty intuitive, except for some settings which you should read up on before you change them. Also, they say battery life estimation is pretty flaky for ipods, but I find it to be pretty much spot on if I divide it by 3 (it estimates the time assuming I have 1000mAh which is the lowest I can set it, I only have 350).

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Postby Durinthal » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:41 pm UTC

You also don't have to use iTunes for an iPod. There are plenty of free (and not free) alternative programs for it.

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Postby jgcrawfo » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:30 pm UTC

I've honestly never had a problem with my iPod or iTunes, though it pains me to type out iAnything. To hell with your clever branding that defies grammatical conventions, Steve Jobs, to hell with you!
If you're using Windows, getting rockbox or something is probably better than iTunes, since iTunes just isn't as nice on Windows. If you're using a mac, iTunes is great. The only thing it won't let you do is copy off of your iPod, which is a pain, but there is software you can get to do that.

My first generation iPod has survived a lot of shit, including, but not limited to, being left in 30 below (Celsius) weather for days (lost luggage flying home on December 23rd), being dropped from five feet or more several times, and maybe having a minor altercation with some pizza. It's still kicking, though the battery is not very good. I recommend not plugging it in every chance you get, because plugging it into your computer automatically charges it, which can condition your battery to not use it's full charge, so try not to plug it in for long until the battery is running low.

Besides being terribly trendy, I've never used a better product with a nicer interface as far as music machines go, so I recommend it. Get a friend who can knit to make it a sock to prevent the battery from freezing in the winter, or find yourself a cool decal/holder for it if you're worried about looking like a tool. There are plenty of accessories out there.
Personally, I just keep mine mostly out of sight now. The days of being an elite techie with my first generation iPod in a backwater town in Labrador are over, now having one is nothing to flaunt.

And I'd consider getting a used recent one, if you can. Honestly, I don't want a video screen, I'm perfectly happy with what I've got. I'm also happy with the fact that my model still supports firewire, which is faster than usb, but not standard on many computers. That's really a matter of preference though.

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Postby rockintom99 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:31 pm UTC

I have an iRiver h10, which I bought off woot for $90. 20 gigs with a good battery life. Installed rockbox (as the default system is shit), and it is *awesome*. I have doom on my mp3 player! :D
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Postby dubsola » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:47 pm UTC

Ok, iPod it is. I like the idea of having something last and the survival stories here and elsewhere have been pretty damned impressive.

Hm, just noticed something:
dunked her 2nd gen Nano in a gin & coke accidentally for about half an hour before noticing it


Gin and coke, that's unusual. To not notice for half an hour?? Wouldn't it get in the way when sipping? Those nanos aren't that small! :D

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Postby Hench » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:51 pm UTC

This may sound like blasphemy here, but just recently I was in your place, and I ended up getting a Zune, and I'm totally in love with it. Haven't had any problems with it at all, and the battery life is awesome, even when using the FM tuner.
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Postby jgcrawfo » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:01 pm UTC

I'd expect the Zune to be junk just because it's made by Microsoft, though I like the idea of the FM tuner. If you say it's good, maybe it's not too bad, but the incompatibility with non-Microsoft platforms is a downer for me.

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Postby Shro » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:10 pm UTC

My portable audio device: The BlackBerry Pearl.

It even plays video! And there's something just plain awesome having one gadget do *everything*
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Postby Julia » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:20 pm UTC

I've had 3 players over the years, and the iPod is the only one that hasn't quit (and it's been beat up the most), but it's not my favorite features-wise. The best one was my creative, but that was a few years back... I just liked the quality, and it was a no-frills player. It was pretty cost-effective, too.

But yeah, my i-pod's been through rain, snow, extremely low and high temperatures (120 degrees in a hot car, still turned right on!), banging around for days in my purse. At one point, it fell into the bottom of my backpack and was lost there for 2 days, with about 30 pounds of books pushing on top of it. It would probably take a nuclear war to break my iPod.

Also, you can get an iHome for your iPod. Those things are pretty cool, they're pretty much alarm clocks that plug into your ipod and play your music. I use it instead of headphones a lot, because headphones aren't great for the ears.

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Postby 2DMan » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:29 pm UTC

On the other hand, I accidentally took my iPod Nano into a dentist's once when I got x-rayed, and the screen didn't work after that. Fortunately it was still within warranty but it is worth noting that those signs reading 'don't take electronic equipment inside' aren't actually joking.
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Postby Cosmonaut Smut Peddler » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:24 pm UTC

Take a look at Son'y new walkmans. They're great for their price, flash memory means they can be dropped a hundred times and come back tickin'. I had an older model that was a 1gig that lasted me two and a half years before kicking the bucket after it's 500th fall and a little water. Their newer ones are as cheap as $80 for 2gigs and I think they go up from there. Real nice, never had any problems.

Edit: I forgot to mention the new walkmans have 2gigs, FM tuner, sports timer, and a search function built in(not fancy anymore because everyone does).

And I've heard nothing but good from the Zune.

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Re: Portable Audio Devices

Postby WhiteRabbit » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:37 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:a. need to install iTunes, and it seems like you lose a bit of control with that particular piece of software, and I hear it's not so hot for Win systems; and
b. there are nuff horror stories of people losing their music libraries (they should've backed up!) when iTunes does some funny synching or some other terrible thing. The gf got a nano and it lost all the music on it after 2 months! I'd blame user error, but it was me who was operating it. :?


a) Lose control how? I switched to iTunes on windows years ago and have never had a problem with it. My wife, whose windows box is constantly crashing, has never had a problem with iTunes.
b) Again, I've literally been using iTunes since it came out for windows and have never had that kind of a problem, or any really.

I like my first gen shuffle and my wife loves her nano. She treats it horribly and it keeps coming back for more.
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Postby semicolon » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:53 pm UTC

rockintom99 wrote:I have an iRiver h10, which I bought off woot for $90. 20 gigs with a good battery life. Installed rockbox (as the default system is shit), and it is *awesome*. I have doom on my mp3 player! :D

Wow, this is exactly the post I was going to make. Good day to you sir!

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Re: Portable Audio Devices

Postby dubsola » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:24 pm UTC

WhiteRabbit wrote:
dubsola wrote:a. need to install iTunes, and it seems like you lose a bit of control ...


a) Lose control how?


I'm used to (and have grown to prefer) plugging a device in, seeing the files in Windows Explorer, and copying as I see fit. iTunes always confuses me... :oops:

Hard to explain exactly why it's so difficult but it is. I find Macs in general to be difficult, particularly when something doesn't work - there never seems to be a way to find out why.

It's probably just me.

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Postby Master Gunner » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:38 pm UTC

It's not just you, I have yet to find a piece of Apple software that does what I want it to do after anything less than a full 30 minutes tinkering around and trying things again and again (I have yet to actually figure out how to delete clips from iMovie). Those things just never seem to work for me, so I just use Windows and related 3rd party software, as that's what I've being doing since I was around 4 or 5 years old.

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Postby warhorse » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:11 pm UTC

Haha. I have an iAudio. I bought it because the price and features were right, but I felt so dirty using such an iPod clone. It even came with white headphones! I had to buy a set of black headphones just to maintain my self respect.

I'm with OmenPigeon here. I refuse to be like everybody else and buy an iPod just because they're recognizable.
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Postby niko7865 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:21 pm UTC

I bought an iPod because it was the smallest 30GB player that I knew of. I've pu Rockbox and Linux on it but they were just too slow compared to the Apple interface. I do wish I could play other codecs but it wasn't a big deal to convert the few non-mp3 tracks had. I've played with a Zune and I used to have an Archos but they were both just too big, iPod is the best because I can fit it into any pocket.
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Postby Azquelt » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:51 pm UTC

I had a 30GB creative zen xtra until recently when it finally went for good.

The thing most likely to go is the hard-drive from being generally knocked about but as it's easily replaceable with a standard 2.5" HDD I've kept it alive quite well. Now something else is gone, the drive is fine but it won't start :(

I'm considering the Zen Vision :M or an Archos.

I'm in two minds about whether I like the iPod or not. It has a nice interface and it works and I could use it without iTunes from linux with gtkPod but there's a few things I'd miss (playlist control, enqueue) and I'm not entirely convinced by Apple's design of having functions accessed by holding down a button.

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Postby OmenPigeon » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:57 pm UTC

warhorse wrote:I'm with OmenPigeon here. I refuse to be like everybody else and buy an iPod just because they're recognizable.


Actually, I was kind of serious about all the extra toys being a good reason to get an iPod.

I mean, did you look at those stickers? Those are pretty great.

I don't own a digital audio thingy myself, but if I did, it would have to have more than 20 gigs of space on it - there's no point to me carrying something around that doesn't have all my music on it. And I haven't seen a whole lot of people making players with that size hard drive other than Apple. Granted, I haven't looked all that hard, but still.
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Postby xooll » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:16 pm UTC

I have an iriver ifp[somenumbersIdon'tremember], and it's great. The only thing I don't like is the software for loading it up. I've dropped that thing on the sidewalk several times, it didn't even stop playing. Oh, and once it got coated in honey, and it didn't really seem to notice (although it's still a little sticky in some spots). The headphones didn't survive the honey incident, though. But they were just earbuds, I hate those anyway.
Anyway, it's probably smaller than what you're looking for (500 MB), but yeah. iriver=good.
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Postby funkenregen » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:43 pm UTC

i hate the ipod interface so bad. the playlist-making sucks, the wheel is just bullshit, everything is stupid.
i've got a creative zen micro, interface is great, and major plus: replaceable battery (new one for ~30$), although the battery still works great. and this thing is undestroyable!! shitty thing: 6gb -.-

i considered buying an ipod but interface scares me. maybe one of my friends will show me rockbox so i can try it out...

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Postby BlueNowhere » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:17 pm UTC

funkenregen wrote:i hate the ipod interface so bad. the playlist-making sucks, the wheel is just bullshit, everything is stupid.
i've got a creative zen micro, interface is great, and major plus: replaceable battery (new one for ~30$), although the battery still works great. and this thing is undestroyable!! shitty thing: 6gb -.-

i considered buying an ipod but interface scares me. maybe one of my friends will show me rockbox so i can try it out...

I had one of these for about two years and I loved it. I didn't like the iPod that much myself.

My Zen Micro was/is ORANGE, bitches. Yeah, see if your iPod can do that out of the box!

I dropped it a few times and it was fine. The most recent drop killed it though. It was playing at the time. Based on some forum posts and a bit of research I believe the HD crashed. It just won't boot properly anymore. Oh well.

I've since bought myself a Zen MicroPhoto. It's pretty much the same thing, only I've got a bit more storage space now. The new one is Silver. :)
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Postby KicktheCAN » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:29 pm UTC

I personally would not buy an iPod. My brother got a mini back when they were still selling them and, guess what, the thing just broke, plain stopped working, it did not even turn on at points and refused to sync with the computer. This was, of course, just after the warranty expired. My dad got a nano when they came out and ended up getting screwed by the faulty screen thing, you know, the thing the class-action lawsuits were filed for. Of course Apple's mistake was not covered under warranty and he now owns a screenless iPod as he will not buy another one. On a plus you do not HAVE to use iTunes which is one of the worst pieces of software ever. The only reason the iPod succeeded is because it is so easy to use so all the idiots who can not operate a computer can use one.

The Dell DJ's were pretty good back when I had one, I do not know if they sell them anymore.
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Postby mikesty » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:30 pm UTC

I got a Toshiba Gigabeat 40GB on sale from $349 to $109 :)
Installed Rockbox - the included software didn't even work!!!
I rarely use it though because I need to re-ID-tag my MP3s - almost all 5GB+ of them are from P2P, downloaded individually. That's a lot of music to re-tag.

Apparently you can play videos with Rockbox though?
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Re: Portable Audio Devices

Postby Devilsaur » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:52 pm UTC

dubsola wrote:a. need to install iTunes, and it seems like you lose a bit of control with that particular piece of software, and I hear it's not so hot for Win systems; and
b. there are nuff horror stories of people losing their music libraries (they should've backed up!) when iTunes does some funny synching or some other terrible thing. The gf got a nano and it lost all the music on it after 2 months! I'd blame user error, but it was me who was operating it. :?

Are my fears unfounded? Any iPod/Tunes users here who know how to work this thing?
Yeah, iTunes is a poorly written cross platform program. It had a bunch of issues with Vista when that came out, but it seems fine now. I'd talk about itunes in linux but I'd just get a null pointer exception.

The way itunes handles libraries is stupid. It hides a file and doesn't really mention where it is (nor let you change it, iirc). If you wipe it, your library is gone. If you have some weird fiasco with reinstallation or changing something significant (like computers or operating systems), it's probably going to be gone. From experience, importing a library isn't a perfect process either. Also, having all your music in a folder or drive won't solve this for you either. For the most part you can just click the large drive to rebuild your library. Except itunes will convert some formats (ie. wma) and put them in some other folder you can't select without telling you where it is.

Anyways, there are itunes alternatives. I've tried them out (mainly to get last.fm sync working), and while they aren't bad, they aren't amazing either.

It's not all bad though, itunes has this awesome feature called a party shuffle that lets you see upcoming songs on your random. This doesn't sound that cool, but in practice you can open up it up and delete upcoming songs in your queue to get an hour+ (or however long you want) of quality music. It also has filters, streams them nicely, lets you see the last couple of songs played, and so on. I really haven't found anything that emulates this (except from a questionable winamp addon). iTunes also has nice and powerful tag editing capabilities that lets you set specific volumes to songs. I liked tag editing in itunes way more than foobar, especially since I edit tags en mass.

tl;dr: iTunes has really annoying things, but has one or two qualities that make it more than that random piece of software for your ipod.

___________

Edit: Can anyone get iTunes to start reporting ipod plays to last.fm? I uninstalled iSproggler and everything, since it's supposed to be able to do it now. Which would be great, except it doesn't work. :/

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Postby zenten » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:01 pm UTC

Devilsaur: How does iTunes compare to Exaile?

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Postby Devilsaur » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:11 pm UTC

zenten wrote:Devilsaur: How does iTunes compare to Exaile?
I haven't heard of Exaile until now.

However, now that I have, and now that I've checked out the website, it sounds pretty amazing. Especially if it actually has built in SHOUTcast so I can finally uninstall winamp.

But generally, iTunes doesn't have anything going for it other than that cool party shuffle feature I enjoy for long music sessions at the computer. The built in tag editing is more of a bonus and can be lived without.

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Postby semicolon » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:17 am UTC

I had a Creative Jukebox die because I guess the conductor stuff on the inside of the headphone hole got rubbed off, and it just didn't work anymore. I had the second Jukebox's hard drive died. And my iRiver H300's battery died. R.I.P.

Fuck Creative though. If I ever have to use that Mediasource bullshit again I'll kill myself.

And fuck id3 tags. I just want to view all the directories on my mp3 player, please. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Postby KicktheCAN » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:39 am UTC

If we are getting on the subject of desktop players now then I suggest [url="http://www.foobar2000.org/"]foobar2000[url]. It is really basic at first but it is extremely customizable and has tons of addons, it is a lot like Firefox. I even think there is an addon for something like that party mix thing in iTunes. I do not know though because I do not need a really complex music player, I keep it simple.
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Postby zenten » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:39 am UTC

Devilsaur wrote:
zenten wrote:Devilsaur: How does iTunes compare to Exaile?
I haven't heard of Exaile until now.

However, now that I have, and now that I've checked out the website, it sounds pretty amazing. Especially if it actually has built in SHOUTcast so I can finally uninstall winamp.

But generally, iTunes doesn't have anything going for it other than that cool party shuffle feature I enjoy for long music sessions at the computer. The built in tag editing is more of a bonus and can be lived without.


I like it, I started using it because AmaroK kept on dying on me. I'm told it's an iTunes clone, but I've never used iTunes. So I don't know if I'm using this really good program, or something that's just a ripoff of a really good program.

Oh, and last time I tried Shoutcast before just now on it it still wasn't working, but now it is, so how bout that.

It is only version 0.2.10, so sometimes things go a bit weird, but less and less often I'm finding.

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Postby DonChubby » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:54 am UTC

Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the thread.

Anywho, I have a 30 gig iPod and I love it. I've had it for a year+, and it is still working (almost) flawlessly. Sometimes, very rarely though, it will just keep pausing for no apparent reason, even if it's locked.
I absolutely hate iTunes, it's slow, and it can take up to a minute before it recognizes that I've plugged the iPod in. This is all on Windows XP, so I don't know how it is on a mac.
I also hate the fact that you cannot sync music from more than one computer, without erasing the entire damn library.

I'd say get one. The iPod is totally worth the atrocity of iTunes.
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Postby LSK » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:59 am UTC

My portable audio device: A CD player that can read .mp3 files. 700 MB per CD, and I'm happy. I brag to my sister that my CD player and three CDs cost 1/3 of what her 2 gig iPod nano cost.

I have a case that holds 36 CDs, and I basically have a ~25 gig mp3 player. With only a small bit more hassle.
Last edited by LSK on Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby chrispy1 » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:00 am UTC

...have an iPod. 40 Gig, and it's almost full (6,000ish songs). I personally love it, but I never would have bought it for myself (wife and parents went in and got it for me......).

The only thing I'm not too keen on is that if you need to replace the battery (depending on use/recharge ratio, it can be anywhere from 1 to 3 years), it costs $160 USD to get it replaced. You have to ship it to a specific address in the US, and they replace it, and send it back. No guarantees on your music still being there. :-( (this from two friends who have had to have theirs replaced. One lost all his music, the other didn't.
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Postby jgcrawfo » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:15 am UTC

LSK wrote:My portable audio device: A CD player that can read .mp3 files. 700 MB per CD, and I'm happy. I brag to my sister that my CD player and three CDs cost 1/3 of what her 2 gig iPod nano cost.

I like to brag about my smaller device with the ability to browse a library by several criteria and compose playlists at will, in addition to having 25 minutes of skip protection.
The third of the cost thing is nice, but man, I like being able to browse so easily and efficiently and then just whip up or listen to playlists like that.

As for the syncing from only one computer and the file directory things, those are things that are easy enough to work around.

For getting music from more than one computer
Step 1-Slap yourself in the face for being so silly
Step 2-Turn off the auto-sync and set it to manual
Step 3-Take cable & iPod to another computer
Step 4-Don't turn auto-sync on if prompted. Seriously. Don't.
In the event that the newer models do not support this, replace 'yourself' with 'Steve Jobs' in Step 1, then insert Step 1.5 as "Install rockbox or other comparable software"

For dealing with file structure woes
There should be a feature (I hope) on Windows that is analogous to the "Consolidate Library" command on Macs. Basically, this should just consolidate everything into one place in a handy file structure, but it may leave the original files in place, in which case you'll have to delete them to save space.
Downside is obviously that it uses Apple's sorting system for the folders, but if you're going over to iTunes completely, this shouldn't be a problem.
Also, I may be lying. I've never explicitly done this, but if iTunes is lacking in this feature for Windows, it gets a considerably greater magnitude along the 'suck' vector in the application space.

I still don't see how people can hate the iPod interface (iInterface?). When picked up the first sample iPod, it just made perfect sense from the get-go. Maybe it is because I've been using macs since I was six years old (no, I'm not a fanatic, thank you), and I was predisposed to something fundamental in their design process, but the click wheel struck me as nothing short of genius. Intuitive and easy.

And about the notion that the iPod is only such a success because of the computer-illiterate masses, yes, that is true assertion. If you design a simple, easy, intuitive device people will buy it. Not everyone cares about customization, and given that this is a forum for people who like math, science, computers, and sarcasm, well it kind of makes sense that we've got an unrepresentative sample set of the world at large.
Last edited by jgcrawfo on Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:22 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Memo » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:16 am UTC

I use my Nokia N73 as my 'portable audio device'.


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