Hearthstone
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- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
I originally thought it became bad due to all the dragons leaving standard, but Drakonid Operative is still good. Apparently it's favored against Quest Rogue, which is probably why Dog ran it...I should watch that tourney
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
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- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
Chen wrote:Kalimos, Blazecaller and Fire Elemental are all basically tempo cards not value ones (assuming you use Kalimos to clear). Servant is value. The only decks I can think of that would go to Fatigue would be some sort of miracle priest deck and they're going to wreck you with Shadow Visions->Un'goro pack or Lyra if the game goes that long.
My understanding of "value" is "effect per card" and tempo is "effect per mana cost." So Pyros is a high value, low tempo card, while Humongous Razorleaf + Silence is a high tempo, low value combo. In that sense, Blazecaller has worse tempo than Fire Elemental but better value. Servant of Kalimos is pretty high value (definitely better than Stonehill Defender, I would argue), but not always. If you don't get the elemental synergy, it is bad tempo and bad value. If all you discover is Air Elemental, Magma Rager, and Dust Devil, it's just bad. Kalimos, however, is guaranteed value if you get the synergy, often better value than Onyxia.
Re: Hearthstone
Generally tempo is spending cards/resources to strengthen your board position. Value generally is building resources; not necessarily at the cost of board position but it usually does come down to that. Most card draw are value plays since drawing cards tends to slow down how well you can fight the board. Cards that produce other cards tend to be categorized as value cards, compared to ones that fight the board which tend to fall under tempo. Clearly there's overlap and the definitions aren't firm. When you talk about "out valuing" a deck it tends to mean running them out of resources while you keep building them.
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
Chen wrote:Generally tempo is spending cards/resources to strengthen your board position. Value generally is building resources; not necessarily at the cost of board position but it usually does come down to that. Most card draw are value plays since drawing cards tends to slow down how well you can fight the board. Cards that produce other cards tend to be categorized as value cards, compared to ones that fight the board which tend to fall under tempo. Clearly there's overlap and the definitions aren't firm. When you talk about "out valuing" a deck it tends to mean running them out of resources while you keep building them.
That seems to be exactly equal to what I said. Mana is a renewable resource, and cards are not. Cards that give a lot of value are "value cards". Cards that can be played early--i.e. low mana cost cards--are tempo cards. In long matches, you want more value, because you will have plenty of mana. In short matches, you want more tempo, because you will have plenty of cards. Cards and mana are pretty much the only real resources in Hearthstone.
Re: Hearthstone
And your life total! That's a resource too.
You're both pretty much saying the same thing, but Chen, I think drawing the line between tempo and value in terms of board position is flawed. Flamestrike is definitely a value card. It can also gain you tempo, and that's often what you're hoping to do (catch-up from all your lost tempo prior to turn 7), but knocking out three or four of their cards with one of yours is clearly card advantage (what value is, at heart). Cards vs. mana is a much cleaner line to draw, and makes it more obvious when you're behind in one, the other, or both.
You're both pretty much saying the same thing, but Chen, I think drawing the line between tempo and value in terms of board position is flawed. Flamestrike is definitely a value card. It can also gain you tempo, and that's often what you're hoping to do (catch-up from all your lost tempo prior to turn 7), but knocking out three or four of their cards with one of yours is clearly card advantage (what value is, at heart). Cards vs. mana is a much cleaner line to draw, and makes it more obvious when you're behind in one, the other, or both.
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- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
Emotes are the fourth resource. I greeeet youuuu. I greeeet youuuu.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
Weeks wrote:Emotes are the fourth resource. I greeeet youuuu. I greeeet youuuu.
That's also the main reason to play Mayor Noggenfogger. JARAXXUS IS . . . sorry.
Unfortunately, Squelch is completely broken and stops all emotes. Brode pls nerf.
Re: Hearthstone
Weeks wrote:I originally thought it became bad due to all the dragons leaving standard, but Drakonid Operative is still good. Apparently it's favored against Quest Rogue, which is probably why Dog ran it...I should watch that tourney
I use dragon priest in wild when I get a priest quest. Zoo and pirates are not fast enough to deal with it and it has enough pressure to out-muscle a control deck too. You can still get games where dragons don't show up or you get no early game against aggro but it has at least decent matchups against anything in wild.
I've seen standard dragon priest, I don't think it's that good. It uses 4 epics from the latest set though which I think scares a lot of people off.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.
Re: Hearthstone
mosc wrote:I've seen standard dragon priest, I don't think it's that good. It uses 4 epics from the latest set though which I think scares a lot of people off.
I assume the epics are the 2 Shadow Visions and 2 Primordial Drake. The drake is neutral though and a great card in many decks. Shadow Visions is also fantastic but I'll grant much more limited since Priest is still not the most popular class. I still haven't crafted them even though they'd be a big deal for my inner fire priest deck. I don't play it enough to be worth the 800 dust and I'm still opening Un'goro packs so I'll give it some time I think.
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
You could also change one primordial for Ysera. Which is a legendary! But one I hold dear as the first I crafted.
My Un'Goro packs have been pretty meh. I got a bunch of Warrior cards, the class I don't play! I don't even have the quest, or any warrior legendary, or even a second Brawl.
My Un'Goro packs have been pretty meh. I got a bunch of Warrior cards, the class I don't play! I don't even have the quest, or any warrior legendary, or even a second Brawl.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
A rogue arena deck I'm not sure about.
Note the massive peak at 3. I wanted to practice my rogue, maybe watch some pro players do a rogue arena to see if I can catch anything I wouldn't see at first glance. I kind of don't wanna mess up what is apparently the second best arena class, and I recently had the displeasure of retiring a horrible shaman arena deck.
edit: As a highlight: I got offered about 5 servants of kalimos. I felt so awful. :(
Spoiler:
Note the massive peak at 3. I wanted to practice my rogue, maybe watch some pro players do a rogue arena to see if I can catch anything I wouldn't see at first glance. I kind of don't wanna mess up what is apparently the second best arena class, and I recently had the displeasure of retiring a horrible shaman arena deck.
edit: As a highlight: I got offered about 5 servants of kalimos. I felt so awful. :(
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
That is a solid deck. 3-drops are the new 2-drops. 2-drops used to be extremely important in Arena - I was happy if I had 6-8 of them. I'm finding more and more that that's completely unnecessary in the new meta. Proof:
Looks a lot like yours, actually! Just ran this a couple of days ago. The spike at 3 seems crazy, but take a closer look at what you've got there. How many of those cards are you actually going to play turn 3? Maybe 6 of them? That's not so bad. The rest are reactionary and give great value for little mana. That's exactly what you want, 3-drops that can take down 5 and 6 drops in the late game. As it happens, that's exactly what you've got here.
The meta is so shifted to control now that 2-drops are useless. I've played many arena runs since Un'Goro was released, and I've always done poorly when I try to have a nice spike at 2. They're just not high value enough, you will lose the late game. My last three or four runs have been more like this, including an 11-3 run with Warlock with just two 2-drops. The above is an extreme example (I'm not saying you should aim to have zero 2-drops), but there is no longer a need for early game tempo. Pick it up in the midgame and you'll be better off.
PS: This is also helped by Rogue and Warlock hero powers being the best Turn 2 plays (with only Paladin really coming close otherwise - you may need to shore up the early game a bit more with other classes).
Spoiler:
Looks a lot like yours, actually! Just ran this a couple of days ago. The spike at 3 seems crazy, but take a closer look at what you've got there. How many of those cards are you actually going to play turn 3? Maybe 6 of them? That's not so bad. The rest are reactionary and give great value for little mana. That's exactly what you want, 3-drops that can take down 5 and 6 drops in the late game. As it happens, that's exactly what you've got here.
The meta is so shifted to control now that 2-drops are useless. I've played many arena runs since Un'Goro was released, and I've always done poorly when I try to have a nice spike at 2. They're just not high value enough, you will lose the late game. My last three or four runs have been more like this, including an 11-3 run with Warlock with just two 2-drops. The above is an extreme example (I'm not saying you should aim to have zero 2-drops), but there is no longer a need for early game tempo. Pick it up in the midgame and you'll be better off.
PS: This is also helped by Rogue and Warlock hero powers being the best Turn 2 plays (with only Paladin really coming close otherwise - you may need to shore up the early game a bit more with other classes).
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- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
That's reassuring, now I don't feel so bad about the draft. I feel worse about potentially botching it though...I'll run it over the weekend I guess. I've been playing the brawl in the meantime, kind of relearning the basics again. Can't hurt.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
Just take it slow and use your cards wisely. That's the key for Rogue.
So... I opened a golden Lysa (sorry, Weeks!
) and an Elise Trailblazer back-to-back yesterday. Thought I'd try building Combo Priest. I felt like I had no idea what I was doing, but just won my first game on turn 5 with a gigantic Tar Creeper, so I guess I must be doing something right!
EDIT: Teehee, game 2 win on turn 7 with a 28/28! I think I like this deck!
So... I opened a golden Lysa (sorry, Weeks!

EDIT: Teehee, game 2 win on turn 7 with a 28/28! I think I like this deck!

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- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
You're tearing me apart Lysa! I would've dusted a golden Lyra though. I dust all golden cards for loads of money.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
I play enough Arena that dust is not usually a problem. Still got a golden Gruul from way back that I would dust first if I ever need to. I'm getting low now though - I think I've spent about 5000 dust on Un'Goro alone!
EDIT: Uh, right, Lyra. Been watching too much Game of Thrones maybe.
This deck is good. Started playing Ranked after a couple trial runs on casual. Still catching myself making mistakes, but I'm learning. Despite that, I'm sitting at Rank 6 with maybe a 85% winrate from Rank 10? I don't like the feeling of sitting there with an empty hand (which happens if they answer your first few threats), but I think that can be managed somewhat if I played my minions smarter. Apart from that, if you draw well, this deck is fantastic.
By the way, Weeks, not sure what you ended up doing with that Lyra, but I'm convinced that Elise is not necessary for this deck. You could build it relatively cheap and it would be just as good as the version I'm playing.
EDIT: Uh, right, Lyra. Been watching too much Game of Thrones maybe.
This deck is good. Started playing Ranked after a couple trial runs on casual. Still catching myself making mistakes, but I'm learning. Despite that, I'm sitting at Rank 6 with maybe a 85% winrate from Rank 10? I don't like the feeling of sitting there with an empty hand (which happens if they answer your first few threats), but I think that can be managed somewhat if I played my minions smarter. Apart from that, if you draw well, this deck is fantastic.
By the way, Weeks, not sure what you ended up doing with that Lyra, but I'm convinced that Elise is not necessary for this deck. You could build it relatively cheap and it would be just as good as the version I'm playing.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
I actually got bored of the combo deck, so I made the dragon priest Dog ran in Dreamhack except with Lyra over Elise. I've only done Hunter on ladder though.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
I did it! Finally! After way too many attempts, I finally made 12 wins with Warlock, just two runs after Weeks watched as I failed twice to take down the final boss in my previous 11-3 Warlock attempt.
7 down, 2 to go.
Weeks, have you played your Rogue run yet with that list you shared? How did it go?

7 down, 2 to go.
Spoiler:
Weeks, have you played your Rogue run yet with that list you shared? How did it go?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
Re: Hearthstone
SDK wrote:IMG_3168.PNG
Teehee!
um. wat.
plytho wrote:Isn't bowling just a subcategory of pottery?
Re: Hearthstone
kalira wrote:SDK wrote:IMG_3168.PNG
Teehee!
um. wat.
You like that? That's the combo in the Priest deck I'm currently playing. Play Divine Spirit (or two or three) to double (or quadruple or octuple) a minion's health, then play Inner Fire to make its attack equal to its defense. It's a solid deck, way more consistent than you'd expect thanks to Shadow Visions.
Are you still playing, kalira? I haven't seen you online. How's it going in the world of HearthStone?
By the way, I meant to say after your last post that you really don't have to spend money on this game at all. I personally have spent a grand total of $7 when I used part of an iTunes gift card to buy one wing of one of the adventures. It takes a while to get all the good cards, but the ranking system Hearthstone uses works great for all levels of players, so if you're patient and don't care about being the best in the world in your first year of playing, you can easily play for free.
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
Re: Hearthstone
Just posting to say that I'm terrible at Hearthstone. Even the computer gives me a difficult time, especially priests. Speaking of priests does anybody know how to get Tyrande Whisperwind? I heard that it was no longer possible or something.
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Re: Hearthstone
Ginger wrote:Just posting to say that I'm terrible at Hearthstone. Even the computer gives me a difficult time, especially priests. Speaking of priests does anybody know how to get Tyrande Whisperwind? I heard that it was no longer possible or something.
Hi Ginger. You're right, it's no longer possible. It was a promotion for Twitch Prime a while back. She is a lot cooler than Anduin.

The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
Re: Hearthstone
I like to post all my 12 win decks, and since this thread is alive again, I'll post them here. If seeing a good arena deck helps you build your own, great! If not, that's okay, I'll just revel in my glory every now and then by reading past posts.

Spoiler:
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
I fucked up a couple of games and ended 3-3. lelSDK wrote:Weeks, have you played your Rogue run yet with that list you shared? How did it go?
I then drafted a Mage and went 5-3. I don't recall any horrible misplays on my part in that run, I just didn't have very high minion quality. I relied on one Pyroblast to close out 3 games.
Now I have a kind of cool looking Priest draft that I'll take more seriously
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
Minions are important, even for mage. Speaking of which...
Good luck with your Priest run!
Spoiler:
Good luck with your Priest run!
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
I'm thinking about making an Evolve Shaman deck, since I have most of the pieces, it looks pretty fun, and it seems to be having some success. The thing is, I don't have Aya or Patches, and I only really have enough dust for one or the other. I've seen lists with both or with just one or the other, but the question is really which will give me more value in the long run. Since I have Edwin already for some potential Rogue decks in the future, is Patches the way to go? Or are pirates on the way out anyway?
I also just opened Al'Akir, which is cool and thematic for my elemental deck . . . but it's just not that great a card. I don't want to dust a classic legendary, though. It seems like it could theoretically work into an evolve deck, since you can attack twice before immediately evolving into a higher stat minion, but it's hard to believe it would actually be worth inclusion, all things considered.
Also worth considering I suppose is that I have Bloodmage Thalnos, so maybe that would make Jade Lightning (and thus Aya) very slightly more valuable.
I also just opened Al'Akir, which is cool and thematic for my elemental deck . . . but it's just not that great a card. I don't want to dust a classic legendary, though. It seems like it could theoretically work into an evolve deck, since you can attack twice before immediately evolving into a higher stat minion, but it's hard to believe it would actually be worth inclusion, all things considered.
Also worth considering I suppose is that I have Bloodmage Thalnos, so maybe that would make Jade Lightning (and thus Aya) very slightly more valuable.
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
Patches is stronger for Aggro, Aya is stronger for midrange. I'd go with what playstyle I enjoy more (in my case midrange, but only slightly). Also whether or not I want to deal with the possibility of Golakka Crawler in their deck (in my case, yeah no thanks, I'd rather play Golakka Crawler myself)
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
Aya is no longer that useful to druid (jade is dieing) and jade rogue is a joke. Patches meanwhile is making all kinds of appearances thanks to combo-ing so nicely even with just bloodsail corsair. Shaman holds onto it's jade mostly because there just isn't much else. I don't think it'll last until it rotates out. Patches is going to have another 9 months of glory.
No question I'd pick patches.
No question I'd pick patches.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
mosc wrote:Aya is no longer that useful to druid (jade is dieing) and jade rogue is a joke. Patches meanwhile is making all kinds of appearances thanks to combo-ing so nicely even with just bloodsail corsair. Shaman holds onto it's jade mostly because there just isn't much else. I don't think it'll last until it rotates out. Patches is going to have another 9 months of glory.
No question I'd pick patches.
Thanks
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
you're welcome
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
Yarr! I'm in charge now!
Spoiler:
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
Re: Hearthstone
8 down, 1 to go.
EDIT: Wow, looking back I've gone 12 wins five times in the last month. I don't usually play enough to qualify for the top 100 list (you need 30 games in the season), but I wonder if I'll make it on this time around. I don't usually track my games, so I'm not sure where I'm at on average for June (or how many games I've actually played).
Spoiler:
EDIT: Wow, looking back I've gone 12 wins five times in the last month. I don't usually play enough to qualify for the top 100 list (you need 30 games in the season), but I wonder if I'll make it on this time around. I don't usually track my games, so I'm not sure where I'm at on average for June (or how many games I've actually played).
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
Dragon Priest is the best thing in Hearthstone and I'm glad I can play (a weird version of it) it occasionally.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
So I (implausibly) won a local tournament in my area (apparently they're called "Fireside Gathering Tavern Hero Qualifiers") and qualified for the "2017 Americas Summer Tavern Hero Tournament," an event organized by Blizzard. It's my first time competing in any tournament for any game of any sort since I lost my first match in a middle school chess tournament twelve years ago. I knew this was a feeder for a bigger tournament going in, but I wasn't even notified of the day (or week) of the bigger tournament until yesterday (Jul 31/Aug 1), about 4.5 days before the start. I know Blizzard tends to get behind schedule, but that still seems damn late. Even if I do manage to win my first couple of matches, I will have to concede, as I already scheduled a tutoring session the same day. Thanks, Blizzard.
For those curious, I won the tournament held at Level Two Games in Avon, Ohio. I have an embarrassing and offensive handle that I apparently can't change that I created back when your chosen username was totally independent of the original username you chose. The only reason I even won the tournament was the Conquest format and the fact that I brought four aggro decks (or technically three aggro decks plus secret mage, which I guess is more midrangey, but people tend to ban mage anyway). They were the only ones I could afford.
For those curious, I won the tournament held at Level Two Games in Avon, Ohio. I have an embarrassing and offensive handle that I apparently can't change that I created back when your chosen username was totally independent of the original username you chose. The only reason I even won the tournament was the Conquest format and the fact that I brought four aggro decks (or technically three aggro decks plus secret mage, which I guess is more midrangey, but people tend to ban mage anyway). They were the only ones I could afford.
Re: Hearthstone
Congrats on the win! That's cool. I know you couldn't finish it anyway, but how did you end up doing?
The biggest number (63 quintillion googols in debt)
- Eebster the Great
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Re: Hearthstone
I pulled a Toast and overslept.
- Weeks
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Re: Hearthstone
ClassicEebster the Great wrote:I pulled a Toast and overslept.
I haven't been playing Hearthstone much but I'll probably grind some packs in Arena for the new expansion. What seems to be broken?
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.
Re: Hearthstone
New expansion adds pretty substantial endgame to all the classes as well as massive anti-aggro. They seem to have put a lot of thought into making hunter/shaman on the slower side of midrange and everything else even more ponderous. Solid AOE added, basically no aggressive minions.
Hearthstone got a lot slower and requires higher arcane dust budgets to be competitive than it did before this epansion.
Hearthstone got a lot slower and requires higher arcane dust budgets to be competitive than it did before this epansion.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.
Re: Hearthstone
Frozen Throne has renewed my interest more than any other expansion I think. I like that the meta has mostly slowed down... maybe 20% of my matches (around rank 10) are against aggro decks. Control Reno-style priest deck has been the most fun deck I've played since Naxx.
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