Shadowrun Returns

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Chen
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Shadowrun Returns

Postby Chen » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:40 pm UTC

I picked this up on Steam yesterday. It seems kinda fun. Very similar to the old SNES Shadowrun game. The default campaign is extremely linear though. No real exploration or the like.

From what I can see though the biggest appeal is the editor that came with it. If its like Neverwinter nights I expect a bunch of player made content to come out, which should hopefully be better than the original campaign (again similar to Neverwinter nights). 2 smallish campaigns had already been made during the alpha and watching the Lets Plays on Youtube made them look pretty decent. I'm not exactly sure what level of customization is allowed through the editor though. Can I make 10 different kinds of Cyberlegs with different bonuses? Can I make a flamethrower (by making a gun use the flame spells for example)? I haven't really looked into that yet.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:19 pm UTC

I like the plot and ambiance + nostalgia value (some of the musics even sound like the SNES ones) but the rest is astoundingly mediocre. Would not recommend.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:43 pm UTC

I'm looking forward to what gets made with the editor. There is a project to recreate the snes game, as well as one to make all the shadowrun modules printed. Give it a few months, and there could be lots of fantastic stuff created for it.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:49 pm UTC

I was pretty happy with it overall. I was up until about 5 playing it Saturday night/Sunday morning before I decided I needed some sleep. After I woke up I put a couple more hours in and beat it.

Took me about 12 hours to beat it, which isn't bad for a 20 hour game. I have a few minor quibbles, but overall I was really satisfied with it. Definitely happy that I pledged to the Kickstarter.

I'm looking forward to playing through with a different character build so I can try some different things.

And I'm really looking forward to seeing what else they, or talented fans, do with it.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Chen » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:10 pm UTC

There are still some bugs in the game and some implementation that's just plain lazy. For example, Wire Reflexes lets you Dodge the first attack that comes at you each round. However, apparently ANYTHING in the game appears to count as an attack, so any buff spells are immediately dodged too. That's something I can understand overlooking. The fact I can dodge reloading my weapon is fucking ridiculous. That's just plain sloppy coding. Also from what I've read the assets (spells and equipment) CANNOT be modified by the editor. Apparently their reasoning was "to keep it in line with the lore" which is also pretty bullshit. You can manually edit those files, but can't official do it with their editor. Which means making custom weapons, armor or cyberware does not appear possible in upcoming player made modules. That seems like a pretty big limitation on the system frankly which has dropped my hopes a bit about the upcoming user based content.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:20 pm UTC

Well all in all it was a gigantic shitfest of terrible programming and design. Adept design is terrible (can't use cyberware, can't use special attacks with killing hands, etc) and rigger can easily solo the game, unless drone bonuses randomly turn off and some spells are useless while others (haste 3) are utterly broken.

If someone wants a better presentation of the bad guys (spoilers obviously):

Spoiler:
www.5thwallgaming.com/shadowrun/Church.pdf

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Anyone can use cyberware as long as you don't mind the essence hit. That's exactly how the tabletop rpg works.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:23 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:Anyone can use cyberware as long as you don't mind the essence hit.


But choosing the option makes you trash on adept.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby clockworkmonk » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:42 pm UTC

it is overall gentler on the relationship between cyberware and magic than the tabletop, to be perfectly honest.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
pseudoidiot wrote:Anyone can use cyberware as long as you don't mind the essence hit.


But choosing the option makes you trash on adept.


If the Adept = Magic User and trash = poor in quality, this is exactly how the tabletop game works where even one minor cybernetic implant makes your magic skills completely worthless.

So.. working as intended.

In D&D terms, this would be the same as wondering why your wizard sucks ass while wearing full plate and packing a heavy steel shield. And a ball-gag for good measure.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:51 pm UTC

I was just rebutting your assertion that adepts can't use cyberware.

Plus it just depends on what you want out of your character build. Later in the game I went for a small bit of Alphaware and my adept was still plenty effective -- the small increase in cooldown didn't change how I used him in combat, so I felt like the trade-off was worth it.

Would I load down an adept or a mage or shaman with Cyberware? Not at all.

Either way that's no sort of design failure of the crpg since that's exactly how essence & cyberware have always worked together in Shadowrun. If you want to use a lot of cyberware just don't play an awakened character.

EDIT: and clockwork monk is correct, the penalty for cyberware in the video game is far less onerous than in the tabletop.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Xeio » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:EDIT: and clockwork monk is correct, the penalty for cyberware in the video game is far less onerous than in the tabletop.
<_<
>_>
<_<
Spoiler:
Both of them then, as I recall the FPS wasn't too bad about it either.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Enokh » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:05 pm UTC

This game is fantastic and I can't wait for other campaigns to come out. Some day, I hope for an FPSRPG of Shadowrun, but this will hold me over.

I also can't wait to get my hard copy of 5th Edition Shadowrun :D

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:22 pm UTC

Speaking of other campaigns, this is some ambitious shit right here: http://www.shadowrunidentity.org/Home_Page.html
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Zapheod » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

so.. Is there ever a real use for a Decker or should I just restart as something more useful? So far there has been one tiny section for decking.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:58 pm UTC

There's some really awesome sequences later on that you need a talented Decker for. Probably my favorite parts of the game.

Having said that, the game won't let you go into those sequences blind and gives you plenty of warnings that you'll need a decker so you can hire one if you aren't one.

I know some people that got a lot of mileage during those parts by being a decker and hiring another.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:There's some really awesome sequences later on that you need a talented Decker for. Probably my favorite parts of the game.

Having said that, the game won't let you go into those sequences blind and gives you plenty of warnings that you'll need a decker so you can hire one if you aren't one.

I know some people that got a lot of mileage during those parts by being a decker and hiring another.


My beef with decker is that you are probably going to be shit at combat, compared to a support mage or shotgun user or w/e. Sure, you could use your high intelligence to use drones - but going decker means you are not going to have enough points for the double rank S 4 ap drones. Plus, it looks like NPC deckers can equip your own gear, so if a matrix segment is too hard you can probably just rewind, buy awesome excalibur shit, then have them go in again.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Chen » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:28 am UTC

There are two missions that require decking and both are EASILY taken care of using either the decker provided on the mission or the one they recommend hiring (who is pretty cheap). Being a decker yourself in this module isn't very useful considering the ratio of decking/non-decking fighting.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:31 pm UTC

The game is so easy that it doesn't matter anyway. I mained a pistol decker on very hard and solo'd some missions. If you pick up Haste 3 on a spellcaster/gunner hybrid though you can effectively destroy anything without trying, running a decker main just makes it slightly more challenging.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby 3fj » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:39 pm UTC

I've heard a lot of recommendations, but don't know anything about the old SNES game. Can you explain/compare the gameplay to any other games?
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 am UTC

3fj wrote:I've heard a lot of recommendations, but don't know anything about the old SNES game. Can you explain/compare the gameplay to any other games?


It's like a very similar to a much shorter, simplier, buggier XCom (the recent one). The story is better but that's not exactly an amazing feat.

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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:49 am UTC

Played thought Shadowrun:Dragonfall. It's Shadowrun as I've always seen it described - by the end of the mission you have no idea what's going on but are alive and glad it's probably settled.

I liked Deitrich, but didn't use him too much as Blitz, Glory and, as I named her, Agent Fuck You* were just too damned useful and Deitrich just too damn unpredictable. Seems his summons always turned on him in a round, his spells wiffed, etc. everyone else, even Blitz's drone I rarely used as despite it always being there I kept forgetting he had it, was more useful and reliable. Which is a shame as an aged punk who is a Shaman of a deity who simply wants him to fight everything and anything is an amazing character.

Played as a female troll adept named Baby, which made all the conversations hilariously personal. And the Baby Civic Center is just perfect.

Did everyone's personal quests too.

Spoiler:
Deitrich's ended well with Alexander moving in with the orks. Blitz's ended well with the accountant whacking Meat Grinder. Eiger's I botched. Only suspicions that he Engineer was working with some Norwegian group that started with an L. And Glory.... We killed the dude, she got a flamehand and I'm pretty sure she's possessed by the Adversary, so they got that to look forward to.


I think I need to play through it as a Mage, as that's a class that wasn't represented in my group. One who is charismatic as fuck, as so many different etiquettes kept popping up.

*So named because every time Eiger shot it was as though she was manifesting my will of "fuck that guy, fuck this guy, fuck all them in the back" with her guns of "Fuck that person in particular" and "Fuck everyone in that general vicinity"
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby TaintedDeity » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:42 pm UTC

I have only played Dragonfall and it was really great. I spent last year listening to my friends go on about how much they enjoyed it. Very pleased with the plots, Glory was wonderful and the glimpses into the wider shadowrun world is good fun. Shame about the gameplay, really ;)
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:46 pm UTC

Playing Returns, seeing how Dragonfall improved it, but still... What's wrong with the gameplay? It's a turn based squad combat RPG.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby TaintedDeity » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:14 pm UTC

I never played Returns, so I can't comment there, but I suspect my problem with it is that it's a turn based squad combat RPG :P
I was in it for the world and the story. Some of the combat was really interesting such as
Spoiler:
the experimental cyberware troll escape smuggle thing
, but some of it was really repetitive and I just wanted to get on with everything else.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:48 am UTC

I can see that. I suppose it helped that I was a troll adept. Mostly for noting that one punch was more effective than a shotgun blast at point blank range. It made combat hilarious to me - not in the assumption that guns were ineffective, but in the assumption that magic punchy troll woman was just that damn good at magic punches.

Also, I rather enjoy squad based tactical combat when there are readied actions/over watch/whatever you want to call it.
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Re: Shadowrun Returns

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:44 am UTC

See, I was playing a decker with high charisma (it was recommended to be able to see the most stuff) so I was largely relying on Eiger and Glory to deal damage. It was a safe thing to rely on.

I definitely still enjoyed it, I should say.
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