Hearthstone

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Xenomortis
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:01 pm UTC

I once got a two legendaries in one pack, one of them golden.
Spoiler:
Unfortunately they were both Hogger.


Have three of the GvG legendaries. Two of them the Warlock demon guy.
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Biliboy
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Biliboy » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:22 pm UTC

I had my best arena run the other day, drafted a mage deck with 3 legendaries, and went 9 wins. I really wanted to go 12 though.

Oh well, I got the new gvg warrior legendary, tried it out once and got the mine to explode but it was vs another warrior who had enough armor to survive and kill me, oh well. I could see it working in a control warrior with perhaps some way of forcing opponent card draw, murloc or dancing swords.

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setzer777
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby setzer777 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:02 am UTC

Is it just me, or are some of the vanilla cards becoming completely obsolete with the arrival of superior Nax and GvG cards? I guess they need to create incentive to buy new packs, but it sucks to make stuff that's almost always superior (and maybe strictly superior in some cases?)
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Xenomortis
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Xenomortis » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:24 am UTC

I think we now have, for the first time, at least one non-class legendary card being strictly superior to another card at the same cost (Dr. Boom vs War Golem).

Things like "Stonesplitter Trogg vs River Crocolisk" aren't strictly comparable - the Crocolisk is a Beast.
But few "vanilla" cards where played anyway - Druids used to run Chillwind Yeti (if only so they could Coin-Innervate it out turn 1), that's it.

Yeah, the new cards have lots of special effects that push them into play, but you can only have so many vanilla cards.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:12 am UTC

Yeah, the only card that's strictly better is Dr Boom vs War Golem, but there is certainly a bit of power creep in the set overall; I don't think it's too outrageous, but it'll be pretty difficult to compete at the top level without a lot of the new cards.
Last edited by Adacore on Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:35 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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setzer777
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby setzer777 » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:26 am UTC

Xenomortis wrote:I think we now have, for the first time, at least one non-class legendary card being strictly superior to another card at the same cost (Dr. Boom vs War Golem).

Things like "Stonesplitter Trogg vs River Crocolisk" aren't strictly comparable - the Crocolisk is a Beast.
But few "vanilla" cards where played anyway - Druids used to run Chillwind Yeti (if only so they could Coin-Innervate it out turn 1), that's it.

Yeah, the new cards have lots of special effects that push them into play, but you can only have so many vanilla cards.


Oh, sorry, I meant "vanilla" vs "expansion", not "no special text".
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Tyndmyr
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:25 pm UTC

I would agree that there seems to be a bit of power creep. The general theme of 'piloted' mechs that drop out a random creature seems strong for the cost...now, I don't know how much these'll affect the meta down the road, but I definitely wish to collect the new set asap to better compete, yeah.

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Biliboy
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Biliboy » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:34 am UTC

I've had some interesting results from the piloted mechs in arena, everything from completely useless to getting milhouse manastorm, a 4/4 without his downside. My opponent surrendered after that one.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:07 pm UTC

I've already seen one video of a guy getting a Doomsayer from a piloted mech when he was way behind on the board. Complete board-clear at zero cost - it was pretty sweet (although it could probably have been played around better by the opponent, he had the ability to kill the 2-3 health minion he was expecting, but not to do 7 damage). I don't have the link to hand, sadly.

I expect I'm gonna be playing a whole lot of arena over Christmas to try and get most of the new cards (and also because arena is fun and I'm going to have much free time).

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Trebla » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:13 pm UTC

It's pretty difficult to avoid the power creep without either stagnating or adding too much complexity. And complexity is already growing with all the new special text (spare parts, recombobulation, piloted golems, oh my). Too much of that and the barrier for entry becomes too high. With power creep, new players can just jump in and focus on the newest cards. I wonder if there's a way to do all of:

a) keep the game fresh for existing players
b) don't make any cards strictly obsolete (e.g., war golem)
c) don't raise the barrier for entry

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:22 pm UTC

Trebla wrote:It's pretty difficult to avoid the power creep without either stagnating or adding too much complexity. And complexity is already growing with all the new special text (spare parts, recombobulation, piloted golems, oh my). Too much of that and the barrier for entry becomes too high. With power creep, new players can just jump in and focus on the newest cards. I wonder if there's a way to do all of:

a) keep the game fresh for existing players
b) don't make any cards strictly obsolete (e.g., war golem)
c) don't raise the barrier for entry


Rolling removal of older cards from a given format. That's about it, really.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby mousewiz » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:02 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:I think we now have, for the first time, at least one non-class legendary card being strictly superior to another card at the same cost (Dr. Boom vs War Golem).


Boom vs Golem is probably about as close as we've gotten to strictly better, but:
- I actually got burned in an arena run (11-3) featuring Velen + Boom by playing Boom after Velen and having my opponent Mind Control Tech the Velen. I still won because I just regular mindcontrolled it back, but if I'd had a War Golem in hand, I definitely would've played it instead.
- Shadow Madness or Cabal Shadow Priest + Auchunai + Circle combo while you're at 1-4 HP would be another reason to want to play a war golem. (I don't like to count 'sucks to be stolen by priest' in the 'strict' comparison because it makes the phrase *completely* meaningless, but this isn't 'sucks to be stolen' it's 'enables being stolen', which I think is reasonable)
- There's that stupid spider that (poorly) hoses battlecry
- Bot explosions might accidentally explode eggs

So yeah, not strictly better in every situation, but it might be the first card that is close enough that I have trouble imagining any meta or deck in which I would run War Golem but would not run Boom.

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Xenomortis
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:18 pm UTC

mousewiz wrote:So yeah, not strictly better in every situation, but it might be the first card that is close enough that I have trouble imagining any meta or deck in which I would run War Golem but would not run Boom.

I'm trying to imagine any non arena deck where I would run War Golem. ;)
But yeah, the phrase "strictly better" should be taken to include obvious caveats (situations like: I don't want to play this 5-4 Goblin Blastmage over some other 5-4 minion because it might pop that Nerubian Egg).

And this expansion, on top of Nax, means new players are so much farther behind now. I feel behind because I don't have cards like Dr Boom, Rag and Sylvanas. My 60 year old dad downloaded the game today* and I've only just really internalised how far behind anyone he might come to play on ladder he is.

*It was interesting to watch someone that had not had any exposure to the game, nor any other game of its genre, struggle to get to grips with the mechanics. And he's not played a real person yet.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby kablurb » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:37 pm UTC

Personally I do enjoy gvg a lot but I have to agree that the gap between newer and older players is huuuuge. My brother recently started playing hs and when he started playing ladder at bottom tier, it seemed like every deck had ragnaros, sylvanas and ysera. I am not saying you need these cards to win the games (since my brother was familiar with mtg he managed to beat most of them) but there are definitely a lot of cards that are difficult to obtain and that basically upgrade your deck. The starting selection of cards is also very limited.
I don't think there is an easy fix for that, though. Maybe there isn't even anything that needs fixing. Giving new players a wider variety of cards seems a little unfair. It might be a good idea that with every new addon (like gvg) a small subset of neutral cards from the last set are made available for everyone (so that the starter card pool scales with the size of the total card pool) but that might also be a terrible idea. :D

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:21 pm UTC

kablurb wrote:Personally I do enjoy gvg a lot but I have to agree that the gap between newer and older players is huuuuge. My brother recently started playing hs and when he started playing ladder at bottom tier, it seemed like every deck had ragnaros, sylvanas and ysera. I am not saying you need these cards to win the games (since my brother was familiar with mtg he managed to beat most of them) but there are definitely a lot of cards that are difficult to obtain and that basically upgrade your deck. The starting selection of cards is also very limited.
I don't think there is an easy fix for that, though. Maybe there isn't even anything that needs fixing. Giving new players a wider variety of cards seems a little unfair. It might be a good idea that with every new addon (like gvg) a small subset of neutral cards from the last set are made available for everyone (so that the starter card pool scales with the size of the total card pool) but that might also be a terrible idea. :D


Yeah, def a factor. I notice that rank climbing, you see better decks closer to the bottom now. At least, no shortage of legendaries.

I actually pulled some of those out of my competitive mage deck, though, as Sylvanas is too easy to play around for good players, and Ysera is slow. Many of my games are already over or effectively decided by the time I could get use out of her. She's great for slower, defensive decks, but dumping legendaries at decks only gets you so far.

Black Knight is really good, though. Efficient, both for mana, and for deck space. 4/5 is a really good size to be at, and hard removal, even if situational, is fantastic.

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Xenomortis
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Xenomortis » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:41 pm UTC

Black Knight is pretty easy to get good value out of; it's pretty much guaranteed to trade for two cards.
Same thing for Carine; two 4/5s for 6 mana is very good.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:21 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:Black Knight is pretty easy to get good value out of; it's pretty much guaranteed to trade for two cards.
Same thing for Carine; two 4/5s for 6 mana is very good.


Cairn's pretty good, yeah. I generally prefer Black Knight, as though he's more situational, no real counter exists. Cairn can eat a silence and be traded for, but Black Knight gets his bonus functionality as he comes into the field. It's close, though. Both are excellent cards.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Yubtzock » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:35 pm UTC

Wooo boy, I haven't posted in here for quite some time now, so here's an update. Expect it to be a bit long and with plenty of screens in the spoilers.


First off, a deck that I made right after Naxx: Secret Anton, Hidden Kel (hearthpwn decklist), or rather "infinite minions, infinite spells".
Key thing is - mage has plenty of spells that generate minions, so whether I cast those with Anton or trade away before dropping kel it's all going in the right direction. This is of course finalised, post-gvg version of it. I tried to keep the secret synergy instead of going full on mech, but I must admit - spare parts are spells generated by minions, so they work just as well, if not better than secrets.
Spoiler:
anton-kelImage

Luckily for me, no one seems to use kezan mystics in every deck yet. Might have something to do with mages mostly running mech decks now.
also:
- unstable portal and duplicate OP.
- archmage has a new sound when a fireball is created, I can't find a video though, so just use your imagination:
Spoiler:
he goes: "a-hahahahahaha"Image



Another deck that I've made back after nax and upgraded post gvg is shaman with ancestral spirit. The reincarnate-Sylvanas-Kel trio proves to be the nightmare of every control deck, and all that is on top of the usual Shaman efficiency. Seriously - before they nerfed the Rag->KT interaction a deck like this was brilliant vs handlock or control warrior.
decklist
Even otherwise unreliable blade masters work well here:
Spoiler:
medic!Image

As it turns out others have realised the power of reincarnate as well so decks like this have become more popular now. This is what you should expect from mirror matches: (also: headaches from trying to remember the order of deathrattles)
Spoiler:
headacheImage

It can get ridiculous at times:
Spoiler:
NEEDS MORE KT
miniominiominionsImage
I actually used hero power in hopes of a taunt which prevented one KT from spawning but that turned out not to matter.



The class I play the most though - and that's like twice as much as any other one - remains to be druid. Mostly because how easy it is to create a deck that not only wins consistently vs hunters but also is pretty viable against any other deck.
Recently though mech mages remain an obstacle so currently my ramp is in experimental state.
Current (often changing) decklist.
Recent changes include explosive sheep instead of a starfall and ancient healbot instead of healing touch (more synergy with recombobulator)
Things you might notice:
- I prefer Claw over Warth - it's better vs hunter as it's cheaper and can be used as a heal if you go for the face.
- "Silent hero of the deck" title goes to poison seeds as an answer to pesky handlocks with their multiple 8/8s - Seriously I thought that card was meant to be played in token decks to equalise big creatures, but it's just awesome as a tool in a control deck. Pity it does not work with explosive sheep as one might expect. I might get back to starfall if I find a way to trim my 5-drops in a meaningful way.
- unstable ghoul is great 2 drop in preparation for swipe.
also: post-gvg faceless value:
Spoiler:
pls no sifon sol Imageoh noes, he did have hadden it. we be dead. At least I got to facesmack his malganis with hero power without taking damage. Q_Q

Spoiler:
Image


The only legendary I got from GvG despite opening around 40 packs now is Malorne - not the best one but at least it's a druid card! I had to make a deck that works with it. It works... okay-ish. The key thing - it's midrange and Malorne alone makes it transition into control-style deck with big drops. Ancient watchers are defensive tool to negate the tempo of mech decks. You should expect to see more ancient watcher druids pop up as a counter to the current mech-meta.

I'm torn about Grove tender - it feels like such a non-card for most intents and purposes aside from milldruid. 2 mana for a 2/4 or 3 mana for a slightly better coldlight oracle isn't something that helps all that much. I run her mostly out of a lack of meaningful 3-drops.

Finally - can I join the recombobWINator hate hype train? It just feels sooo broken FUN. I'll recant what everyone says: at worst it's a cheaper shattered sun cleric (when used in a deck running decent battlecries: Black knight, Ancient of lore, healbot, even BGH as 2hp isn't the best that a 3 drop can have), but at best it can be THE tool to swing the game around.
Spoiler:
I went on to win that one thanks to "bob" alone: Image


Tyndmyr wrote:
Xenomortis wrote:Black Knight is pretty easy to get good value out of; it's pretty much guaranteed to trade for two cards.
Same thing for Carine; two 4/5s for 6 mana is very good.


Cairn's pretty good, yeah. I generally prefer Black Knight, as though he's more situational, no real counter exists. Cairn can eat a silence and be traded for, but Black Knight gets his bonus functionality as he comes into the field. It's close, though. Both are excellent cards.


GvG added Piloted Sky Golem - that thing is essentially Cairne you can run two of. Both are 6 mana, both spawn a 4 drop, and while Cairne spawns second best option*, PSG has more stats before the deathrattle. The only real downside is that it can die to an average 4-5 drop so it's a bit less sticky.

*) - best is dunemaul shaman - I actually got that one once and was surprised there is something better than a yeti for 4

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Biliboy
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Biliboy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:30 am UTC

Been playing with this deck lately that I threw together, and it seems to work. I hadn't played much ranked this season and went from 18 to 15 on a win streak with it, still going.

Would appreciate some input on it, I really didn't expect it to work but it does. I think it needs a second owl, but can't decide what to drop for it.
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Adacore
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:48 am UTC

It looks like you're going for aggro/tempo with that deck, setting up high power minions on turns 2-4, controlling the board into the mid game, then pushing for damage before the opponent can put up too many late game threats that out-scale your midrange stuff.

With that in mind, I don't really thing Voodoo Doctor fits the plan. I get why you included it - it has front-loaded value with the battlecry, so you don't care if it's silenced, but in an aggro/tempo deck, you want to be playing your 1-drop on turn 1, and the battlecry does nothing in that case. I'd strongly consider swapping the Voodoo Doctors out for Flame Imps - they fit your plan of giving you undercosted minions for an early game power spike, and while you can't use the Wailing Soul to nullify their drawback, I think they're still strong.

Similarly with the Earthen Ring Farseers. Is the heal something you rely on? This is more debatable - they're much more solid minions. I guess as a starting point, imagine they were Spider Tanks or Void Terrors, and think about whether one of those would be better or worse than an Earthen Ring whenever you draw one. Admittedly you really won't want to silence a big Void Terror, so there's a bit of anti-synergy, but if you can make them threatening enough that you don't want to play a Wailing Soul, then you probably won't have to play your Wailing Soul until the opponent has dealt with the Void Terror anyway.

Are you genuinely seeing enough secrets for Kezan Mystic to be worth a slot? I guess if every other opponent is Hunter or Mage you might be, but in my experience it's not a strong enough card to make the cut. If it's not, you might be better with a Yeti.

EDIT: Also, it's worth considering Imp-losion over Shadow Bolt. It's normally considered a stronger card, but it does have some drawbacks, especially in a list that runs double Dread Infernal.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:19 pm UTC

The Blackrock Mountain adventure comes out today! Which reminds me I never finished Heroic Naxx - I should get around to that at some point, but first... Heroic BRM!

As someone who never played WoW, BRM seems somewhat less thematically exciting - fiery volcano with random black dragons. Also, I don't have Leeroy, and I'm pretty sure there's going to be a special interaction for him with whichever boss most closely fits the area his video was filmed originally. Still, adventures are always fun, and some of the new cards look pretty exciting to play with. :D

If Weeks can bump the LoL thread for LCS playoffs then surely I can bump the Hearthstone thread for a new expansion?

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:03 am UTC

Yeah, the adventure is really cool so far, and the new cards look like they're going to be really fun :D even though I doubt it's going to be properly playable, I absolutely love Majordomo Executus's design, and can't wait to mess around with him in constructed! Luckily I finally hit Legend with Mech Mage last season, so I don't really feel like I have to take laddering seriously any more.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:29 am UTC

I've not hit legend since the first time I did it last spring, but I've felt like I could've done if I'd put in the time a few times since then.

I'm looking forward to the next wing - it looks like it'll be pretty fun. The first wing was certainly pretty fun (and gave reddit the all Unstable Portal challenge they've been asking for since GvG came out). I beat the first two bosses on heroic on my first attempt, although I had a lot of time to think about it.

Spoiler:
I did the first boss by myself, just using a ridiculous ramp Druid with the 24 highest cost minions I own, plus Wild Growth, Wrath and Swipe. Was reasonably close, but getting free 8/8's almost every turn can generally get enough 2-for-1's and 3-for-1's to keep up. I don't think I even got Kel'Thuzad up, which would've made it super easy.

For the second boss, I was watching Trump bash his head against a brick wall for an hour trying to beat it with a Control Paladin deck, and thought 'this looks like it'd be pretty easy with a freeze/secrets hybrid Mage'. So I left the vod running in the background, built that deck, and won easily on my first attempt. The deck had Vaporize, Mirror Entity, Mad Scientist, Kirin Tor as the secrets package; Frost Nova, Doomsayer, Blizzard, Frost Bolt, Ice Lance as freeze; and Polymorph, BGH, Faceless, Sylvanas, MCT, Tinkmaster Overspark and Fireball, iirc. The idea was I'd use my opponent's minions against him, by copying them with the Duplicate and Faceless or stealing them with Sylvanas and MCT, and then I'd use my efficient removal to get rid of his big stuff after I copied it. It was going fine, then the boss played Millhouse, and I pretty much insta-won... but I think I could've won even without the free spells. Then I went back to watching Trump for another twenty minutes until he finally beat it.

I'm not sure how to do the third one other than just mulligan until you hit a Crazed Alchemist. I want there to be a more reliable way, but I just don't see it.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Chen » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:57 am UTC

Heroic Emperor
Spoiler:
There's no real good way to do this besides mulliganing for Crazed Alchemist. As a priest you can go for power word shield too, but that 3 damage a turn is pretty rough. I beat it with a priest combo deck. Stabilized myself (lightwells help a lot) and then just beefed up a lightspawn with divine spirit and just beat him to death with the 10/10. He has no good way to remove big minions.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:51 pm UTC

Yeah, I got lucky due to playing mage, and getting Millhouse early on. More cards, more cards, kay...play ALL the spells. Boom. First wing went down quickly, but was a good deal of fun. Haven't hit Legend yet, just screwing around trying to collect all the cards...which is pretty obnoxious at this point, as packs are almost wholly dust.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Zohar » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:08 pm UTC

I just started playing this last week. I'm pretty bad, everyone keeps kicking my ass with all of their fabulous cards, including people at my own level. Am I just supposed to buy stuff before I can actually compete against people? Any recommended starting classes? I've been playing some mage, some druid, and a little bit of hunter.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:39 pm UTC

It does suck a bit at the start - more so now than ever before with two adventures and two expansions you're missing out on.
Some upsides:

Arena does not depend on your card collection at all, but it does cost gold to play.
Tavern Brawl only occasionally depends on your card collection - many use pre-made decks.
Aggressive decks can be very successful and use cheap, common cards.

On another note, I went for the TGT 50 pack preorder and received precisely one legendary - Anub'arak. :(
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:24 pm UTC

Note a new season JUST started which means everyone's rank has been reset. That means at the starting ranks 20ish you could be facing Legendary ranked players for the next couple of days while they rank up. It usually gets better as the season progresses. Also Casual is very misleading. Even though it's not ranked the matchmaking there is even more random so you're likely to get ridiculous matches. Just play Ranked and odds are you'll hit at least a couple of opponents that are also beginners like you.

There's a lot of gold you can get via Achievements for free too. Things like getting each char to level 10, beating all the Expert AI opponents and such. You should definitely do those to build up some of your card bases via packs (or playing arena if you feel you're good at drafting). Doing the Tavern Brawl each week (its offline on Monday/Tuesday usually and comes back Wednesday) gets you a free pack for your first win so that's definitely worthwhile doing.

In terms of decks that are cheap and effective you're probably looking at an Agro deck. Something like Face Hunter, or Agro Paladin. Mech mage is pretty cheap too, though you'll need to skip Dr. Boom and Antonidas to start with. Warlock Zoo shouldn't be too expensive either though you won't have the Doomguards or the Imp Gang Bosses. Still they can be replaced without too much of a loss of effectiveness.

If you're going to spend real money on the game, I suggest the Adventures (Naxx and Blackrock Mountain). Personally they're fun, and you get solid cards out of them (along with some garbage of course). Also they're more efficient to buy with real money than gold, compared to packs. Thats why I prefaced this with "if you're planning on spending money". With the same amount of real money and gold used you'll get more packs in the end if you use the real money on the adventures and the gold on packs, compared to the opposite.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:41 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Note a new season JUST started which means everyone's rank has been reset. That means at the starting ranks 20ish you could be facing Legendary ranked players for the next couple of days while they rank up. It usually gets better as the season progresses. Also Casual is very misleading. Even though it's not ranked the matchmaking there is even more random so you're likely to get ridiculous matches. Just play Ranked and odds are you'll hit at least a couple of opponents that are also beginners like you.


It compresses, but it doesn't compress that much. For instance, I finished at rank 10, and began at rank 19. I'll likely never be rank 20 again.

But it IS harder early in the month. Mage is nice for starting. You get that early on. Note that hidden quests exist that can provide a few boosts. Free packs are free packs. Also, getting to rank 20 so you get the rest of the basic cards for the class is big. You can progress on that even on losses. Sure, people will still have better decks than you after that...but the difference will be smaller.

Definitely do tavern brawls. Many of them have precon decks, putting you on a level footing. Ditto, Arena, though I'd suggest getting some familiarity in ranked first. Arena really requires good card knowledge. Brawl does not.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:26 pm UTC

Just started playing, have unlocked all the basic cards for hunter, rogue, and mage.

Questions:
Is this pay to win??
Playing casual games (I have like 35 games ever) I see people dropping multiple legendary's on me. In one game I had 3 legendary cards in a row played on me... I lost.
A hunter killed me in round 4!!! WTF.

Next, how big is the luck factor.
I understand the mana curve aspect, but it seems like there are games where you just get the wrong cards at the worst times and that luck is a significant factor.

(I watched one video of a 'finals match' and at 10 mana one guy drew a 2 man card --- and the commentators said "that was unlucky, it was like not getting a card at all")

Are Arenas the best use of gold?
I did my free Arena --- and did get 1 legendary card out of it. (0/4 fishing guy with 50% chance to draw an extra card).
So that seemed kind of productive.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:54 pm UTC

You pay to avoid grinding. Everything you can obtain with money can be obtained with gold, except for the character portraits.

There are some pretty reliably cheap decks as mentioned before. Mech mage, Face hunter, Agro paladin are all fairly cheap to make (yes you may need to replace some cards that are expensive with cheaper ones until you get those). For hunter consider:

2 Lance Carrier
2 Leper Gnome
2 Abusive Sergeant
2 Worgen Infilitrator
1 Ironbeak Owl
1 Hunter's Mark
2 Knife Juggler
2 Explosive Trap
2 Dire Wolf Alpha
2 Glaivezooka
2 Animal Companion
2 Eaglehorn bow
2 Kill Command
2 Unleash the Hounds
2 Wolfrider
2 Arcane Golem

Once you get some Adventures you can add in Mad scientist, Haunted Creeper and Quick shot instead of the 2 Lance Carriers, 2 Dire Wolf Alphas, 1 Worgen Infilitrator and 1 Eaglehorn bow. The strategy for this deck is pretty braindead. Everything attacks face. Ignore the board unless you need to clear a taunt. It works surprisingly well for a mindless deck/strategy.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:40 pm UTC

It's possible to go completely free to play, but it's hard and grind-y. I personally was entirely free to play until March, when I bought the most recent adventure (Blackrock Mountain) with cash - I've been playing since the game came out of beta in early 2014, and I have most of the useful legendaries (I could have them all if I disenchanted my less useful epics and gold cards). A lot of people say that the best balance, in terms of value for money, is to get the adventures (Blackrock and Naxxramas) with cash, and grind for the rest of the cards. Naxxramas in particular has some very good cards. Blackrock Mountain's major claim to fame is the Grim Patron card, which is the core of possibly the strongest deck in the game (which is also a pretty cheap deck to build - search for Grim Patron Warrior - but is notoriously hard to play well).

Also, generally, if you want to go free to play, gold cards should be disenchanted unless you're actually using them and don't have the non-gold version. They're worth a lot of dust that you can use to craft other things. When crafting, try to limit yourself to epics and legendaries, plus maybe the most important rares. You'll get most common cards in packs pretty easily.

Ixtellor wrote:Are Arenas the best use of gold?
I did my free Arena --- and did get 1 legendary card out of it. (0/4 fishing guy with 50% chance to draw an extra card).
So that seemed kind of productive.

If you can get good at arena, it's the best use of gold. You need to be winning 50% of the time (3 wins on average) in arena to break even, past that you make a profit compared to just buying packs in the store.

EDIT: Also, apparently this past season the rank reset was buggy, so while former legend rank players would normally start the season at rank 15, some of them were reset to rank 24 or 25 this time, which is typically the realm of complete novices.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Zohar » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:20 pm UTC

Thanks for the advice. I don't necessarily want to play completely free, I was mostly wondering what people's experiences were.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:50 pm UTC

I've bought...just the one pack that got you a promo card or whatever. That seemed cool. No other packs bought. Expansions unlocked with gold. Works pretty well, and I don't mind it or feel at a significant disadvantage. There's some legendaries and a coupla epics I don't have yet, but...solving that via card buying would suuuuck. Legendaries just aren't common at all, even if you embrace bulk packs.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby mosc » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:58 pm UTC

So I know I'm late to the party but I've been playing some hearthstone lately. I don't have any legendaries or anything but I've some card playing experience before and have gotten to rank 20 easy enough and some arena success. What I don't understand about the game is that some cards I see people playing don't show up on my crafting list. I did some tracking and they seem to be from Nax and the other "Quest" packs. I haven't spent real money on this game and don't really want to (winning isn't why I play, it's just a nice time killer on my phone) but I did find I could buy different things from these quests for 700g each... looks like 1/5th of the content per purchase making me think I could spend 7,000g (I know, a lot) and get all 5 chunks from both "quests" without spending real money. I'm not sure how this would compare to buying 70 packs and crafting stuff.

My best deck seems to be priest. I got a couple of rares that work well but I can see the potential for a cheap hunter deck (specifically all of 6 rares and nothing higher needed) that just dominates anything else without the purple and legendary class of cards. Seems like throwing this together for around 1000 material would give me a deck that had a fighting chance against nearly anybody. Can I make a lot of gold out of winning games with it or is gold just a reflection of daily little rewards added up over months and months...
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:26 pm UTC

Gold is mostly from daily quests, I believe; you'll get between 40 and 100 gold for a daily that takes between 3 and ~10 games (so, call it about 10 gold/game), and can be stacked 3-at-a-time in some cases; the gold from playing matches in general is 10 per 3 games, and I believe is capped to 100 or 150 per day (to cut down on bots). You can also get it as arena rewards, but getting out more than you put in requires a substantial win streak (7 wins is about where you'll typically get refunded your entry fee, 3 wins is where it breaks even on gold-efficiency to just buying a pack, you can get up to 12 wins).

Whether Naxx/Blackrock Mountain are worth it (in terms of "value relative to buying packs") kinda depends. For Warrior, in particular, one of the most popular setups absolutely requires a couple cards from the Adventures, but they're from fairly early on, so you could potentially "unlock" a high-tier deck without paying much. Some of the adventures don't have much good for most decks, though, and if you want to do e.g. a Flamewaker tempo mage deck, you'll be shelling out a bunch of gold for cards that aren't helping you much to get down to that wing.

Personally, I paid for the adventures about half with gold, about half with $. They're entertaining enough, and the fights have amusing gimmicks.

If you're looking for a cheap yet viable deck, face hunter - which it sounds like you were looking at - is probably the way to go. Not particularly strategic to play, though, and may detract from learning the game in more depth.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Adacore » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:20 am UTC

You have to play a lot of games to hit the daily 100 gold cap on the 10 gold per 3 game rewards - assuming each game is 5-10 minutes, and you win 50% of your games, that's between 2.5 and 5 hours of play. You'll get 50-60 gold per day from the daily quests, so if you play a lot you can save enough gold for one Adventure wing per week, I guess. In general, though, buying adventure wings with gold is pretty inefficient compared to buying packs, at least until you've got most of the common (white) and rare (blue) cards you want.

Naxxramas - the first adventure - has a heap of staple cards that are used in many of the popular decks. Blackrock Mountain is only really needed if you want to play a dragon-based deck.

In terms of earning gold in general, if you can get really good at arena then that's the best way to go. As DaBigCheez said, anything above a 3 win average will get you the same value as simply buying packs, while something in the 6-7 win average allows you to make a profit, while earning packs effectively for free.

My arena average has been pretty awesome lately - I'm on a 6.53 average since BRM came out, but around 8.5 win average since TGT. I doubt that's sustainable, but it's pretty awesome for now (if I can maintain that level, it would put me among the top arena players in the world, but I doubt I'll be able to).

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Chen » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:59 am UTC

Arena is generally the best way to make gold. Even those times when you crap out at 0-3 you can get 20-30g in addition to the pack which almost breaks even on itself. 3 wins (the average) and you'll break even or get more. Anything more than 3 you're almost certainly making a profit over packs and the higher you go the bigger the profit. 12 wins can give you 2 packs and a couple hundred gold. Arena also teaches you some good basics of the game. Check out a site like Heartharena to see some general card rankings or watch a stream of a good arena player and you can get a good feel for at least what cards you should be picking. Then it's really just practice.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:53 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Arena is generally the best way to make gold. Even those times when you crap out at 0-3 you can get 20-30g in addition to the pack which almost breaks even on itself. 3 wins (the average) and you'll break even or get more. Anything more than 3 you're almost certainly making a profit over packs and the higher you go the bigger the profit. 12 wins can give you 2 packs and a couple hundred gold. Arena also teaches you some good basics of the game. Check out a site like Heartharena to see some general card rankings or watch a stream of a good arena player and you can get a good feel for at least what cards you should be picking. Then it's really just practice.


That's incorrect. Three wins is still a net negative compared to simply playing games in ranked and burning your gold on packs.

Pack: 100g
Arena: 150g.

Three wins in ranked gets you 10g. Meaning you buy your pack, and have 60g left over.

Three wins gets you a pack(100g value), 25-35 gold, and a random prize, which is 20-25g OR 20-25 dust OR 1 common OR 1 rare. The common is very frequent, and seriously drags down the expected value. Even getting gold, and maxing both randomizations, you only break even, with a net result of 160g effective value.


Likewise, the crap out also is worse than you portray. You get a pack, and a random reward(gold, dust, or a common). Getting a pack and a common for 150g is particularly rough, and all the options represent a distinct loss.

You end up about equal on expected value at 4 wins, and superior at 5+. On average. It's still possible to pull a pack, 40 gold, and a crap common at 5, but over the long term, you should be marginally ahead.

Average is, of course, three wins. So, arena is a rough strategy unless you're well above the curve on wins.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:19 pm UTC

Fair enough. The only thing not considered there is the relative fairness of arena compared to trying to play ranked (or god forbid casual). Someone who is brand new is going to get stomped pretty hard in ranked or casual, especially the early parts of the month.

Also I'm not sure how often you'd need to win high to compensate for low wins, just due to how much the rewards increase as you get to higher wins.


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