Therian Saga

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DaBigCheez
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:17 am UTC

Hm. If need be, I could always just whip up a few +4.7 Jewelry potions with a Star of Jotun (I've got a few hundred of the things sitting around), I can hit high enough with a potion to make those. That said, it sounds like my best bet is to start saving up for some runic pliers or start farming some pearls for an Autocrat (or discard the idea altogether, ofc).

Is a second boar important/useful, or kind of a luxury item?
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:41 am UTC

Considers two Boarserkers useful. Outperforms most/all companions. (Wants Boarserker for that reason, after all.) Depends how often you grind dungeons.

Current grinding party: Boarserker/Boarserker/Rowan/Golem Monster. (Demoted Gaspard/Cerrydwen for Golem Monster.) Recruited one Boarserker on two other characters. Never sees combat. Usually assigns two combat, one trade skill, and five gatherers per non-grinding character. Cannot afford Boarserker's defiance. Selects Cerrydwen + Gaspard as combat, generally. Chooses Rowan or Yraen sometimes.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:38 pm UTC

Got my Boarserker. It's a +3!

...in Hills. -1/+1/-2 on Offenses. Well, at least it's not a -3, I guess...

Debating whether to rush a second Boarserker or get an Autocrat. Second boar's probably more useful, really, so I should probably spend my time doing that, getting my butt handed to me by Mister Golem repeatedly, and debating how to raise Alchemy high enough to start on the balm quest. My best guess is to make a few tannins/resins until I can discover fortified cement, then churn that out en-masse with marl sand and some of the substances I have a million of. Or assassin mandibles, since I suspect *those* will be piling up in bulk as I farm more foggy pearls for another companion.

Meanwhile, alt's got 8 laborers mining away and is just about to unlock steel/armor plates, then I'll get them working on some forestry to get the wood for mountain concessions, then on to churning out healing potions in between the armor plates. Woooo~
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Deva
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:12 am UTC

Recalls a roughly twenty-eight day recruitment cooldown for Boarserker. Might prefer Autocrat first.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:13 am UTC

If possible I would suggest going to Nostria and doing quests until you can have your Telluric sanctuary, so pearls will only be a matter of afk grinding. Then you will have no dilemma.

Otherwise it really depends if you plan to spend much time in dungeons.

In other news I am now balming my T4 companions; I am learning most balm recipes in the process. I can't find a boen idol on market, but strongish bones have been strong enough so far.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:49 am UTC

Ah, I hadn't considered the possibility that boars would have a recruitment cooldown. That makes it a bit easier for me to go for Autocrat and not feel guilty about being "suboptimal". I'll reserve that guilt for my choices about which offenses to train instead! (...probably concluding with "screw it, I'll just let them attack everything and not worry about it")

And yeah, Telluric Sanctuary sounds good, especially since I used my detour back to the mainland to finish off my old quests and can now build a Den concession.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:42 am UTC

Checked out Charbalitic Clusters.

Processes it with 20 Steel Chisels (and Emerust).
Yield: 1-2 Small Uncut Stardust Stone, 20-30 Thundercoal, 15-25 Anthracite, and 15-25 Coke.
Total time: Approximately 18.5 hours.

Will give away Thundercoal to anyone interested. Do not expect any soon, however. Plans to enlist Autocrat and level Jewelry (again).
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:52 am UTC

Mister Golem acquired, woo! Even had my "onward to Norstria" companion loadout at the time, so might keep'm with me as ninth over-Defiance companion for a bit :) Probably Golem for blunt, Rowan for pierce, Boar for slash/wildcard, and then Gaspard as a wildcard will be my combat party for the next bit. Yraen and Cerry are still with me, but on standby.

Edit: Huh. No slash on Mister Golem...I take it that "Mister Golem" and "Golem Monster" are actually two separate things? I'll look more into this...*browses wiki*...ah. I figured Golem Monster was an upgraded form of Mister Golem, but looks like they're totally unrelated :) The fact that Golem Monster is Ferocity, rather than Defiance, seems...useful.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:45 am UTC

The Golem Monster is pretty much the last quest currently available in game. It's also primarily for blunt offense and high defenses.

As to leveling Boar's offense, there are two schools of thought. You can micromanage it and try to raise piercing and slashing together. This has some advantages since the boar piercing is the highest in the game as well and some monsters have high slash defense and low pierce defense (Wyvern and Swamp Catos notably). It is a major pain to do that though and you can get yourself into situations where raising slashing can be hard/impossible. Personally I just maxed the slashing on both my boars instead. Even with max slashing (83) one of my boars can still, theoretically gain piercing offense on the swamp catos.

Also note the last blog post mentione combat training buildings coming up. So it may be possible to raise their offenses purely out of combat using those, which might make things much easier. That said my intuition tells me the combat training buildings will be like academies/beatariums and require high end mats to raise high skills. That is just speculation on my part though.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:10 pm UTC

...if you run out of money to pay your passive-gathering companions, they just throw everything they've collected out the window? now that is some bullshit right there. RIP about four days of passive-gathered stuff from my alt's 8 companions because I was a bit too slow getting to a mailbox >:/

EDIT: ...wait, I'm wrong, it just magically teleported into my profession chest. Which is still bullshit in a sense, but in a different way; I don't even have to go there to pick it up if I just get rid of all my money for a bit...? Though I do still have to go there to restart them, at least.

Also, while trying to get my Forest/Snow skills up for the checkpoints in the Norstria quests, it's becoming painfully apparently that I need to update my armor again. Who do I talk to for that? Is Izawwlgood/Jhalias still playing? I'm currently wearing a hodgepodge of bronze/steel and copper/steel harnois; I think I need to upgrade to steel/odiemel or odiemel/eliandel, and I'm guessing the latter is out of my price range. At the very least, I need to replace my copper/steel head and gloves (and boots, but for those I'll need to look elsewhere), since having a slashing hole the size of a small moon is no fun when trying to grind land skills by attacking Vigored-up oroglodytes.

I can provide steel ingots, over time, and even steel plates with some time spent on my main, but not reinforcements. I don't really have a good source of odiemel at the moment, so that'd be either cash or trying to deal with the market.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:49 pm UTC

Yes Jhalias is still playing and can make you better armor; I can make you better boots.

(steel/fortified leather boots would be 51/48/41 and quite cheap; wyvern leather boots would be 51/61/45 or 51/50/56).

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:55 pm UTC

Izzy is not playing for the next bit apparently but I have access to Jhalias so I can make the armor you need.

What are your combat stats at? No sense in making a set of odiemel armor if you can't wear it. I suggest steel/bronze as the mid way armor between what you're using and Odi/Dom armor.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:59 pm UTC

No issues with defense stats, I'm at 52+ across the board on hero defenses which I think lets me wear any armor in the game. I've got steel/fortified boots atm, and half of my slots are bronze/steel already, I just had to fill in gloves/head with copper/steel. My main issue is that the slashing hole means I'm still getting wrecked by oroglodytes and the like; it's not *quite* as bad on the bronze/steel pieces, but oroglodytes in particular are enough above the bronze/steel bits that it's still a problem.

Odi/dom is generally accepted as the "best" armor, then? I would think that the blunt hole would cause problems from time to time - or is it common to keep a set of odi/eli for stuff with higher blunt and use odi/dom for piercing-heavy enemies/general use?

I might be naive due to not having really hit all the endgame stuff yet, but I feel more comfortable in an armor set with no major holes. Maybe odi/dom with a +bluntdef amulet is the way to go, though :)
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:43 pm UTC

Main Blunt Offense monsters: Watchmaker, Royal Goat, Sleepwalker, Mud Elemental, and Vorsicus Equus.
Main Piercing Offense monsters: Wyvernus (usually), Loupridon, Nyxeconos, Troglowolf, Albino Wyvern, Renegade Isbjorn, and Unverstaker.
Main Slashing Offense monsters: Oroglodyte, Praius Omnis, and Swamp Catoblepas (usually).

Left out Anderversan Woods creatures and some others.

Manipulates Swamp Catoblepas and Praius Omnis into attacking Piercing. Manages fine in Odiemel/Domane against Royal Goat and Mud Elemental. Faces too few Oroglodytes (and other, unlisted Slashing monsters) to justify armor.

Farmed more Loupridons/Nyxeconos (Ingots), Troglowolfs (Swamp, some Forest, some Snow, Rowan/Cerrydwen Slashing Offense), and Albino Wyverns (Wyvern Blood) individually than all others combined, probably. May want Odiemel/Eliandel for Watchmaker and Sleepwalker grinding. Chooses not to bother.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:57 pm UTC

Ah, gotcha. So the oroglodytes are fairly rare in general, I'm just running into a lot while trying to get my snow/forest up. Makes sense.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:52 am UTC

As Deva said you won't farm that much with high blunt offense (unless you want to farm zombies in the depths for gold). Watchmaker's blunt offense is generally high enough that no matter what armor you're using he's going to two shot you if he hits the same bar twice (I think I've seen sub 50 hits in my krya armor but even then it's uncommon).

And farming the zombies is tough to do without krya armor anyways. Odi/Eli can work but its less efficient and much more dangerous than farming ice lab in Odi/Dom.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:19 pm UTC

Just a heads up there was a pretty big market bug yesterday (Sept 10) and people were exploiting like crazy selling huge amounts of things like Wingu/Salancedar for super low prices. If anyone happened to buy any of those please send in a ticket or something to determine how to give the stuff back. Falk (one of the Virtys devs) was on yesterday and asked people to give any ill-gotten gains back. They mentioned they'd be able to track it down so seems there's an amnesty until they decide to do something about it. I don't think it was active for long so people may not have even noticed it. That's what the quick downtime yesterday was for.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:55 pm UTC

I wasn't involved; did you mean buying, or high prices? Also were they making money off other players, or off the game?

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:28 am UTC

The exploiters in question were:

1) Buying out all high-value goods (krya ingots, wingu fabric, blue crowns, etc.) from the market with a seemingly-inexhaustible supply of gold
2) Listing obviously-duped stacks of items on the market (e.g. stacks of 9999 Wingu fabric for 10s apiece)
3) Outright giving those items away for free (I said something in chat - along the lines of "lol" - and one of the 'sploiters tried twice to send me stacks of 10k wingu/10k salancedar in the mail, no COD. I wasn't touchin' that shit)

So, the market got hugely distorted pricewise from them buying it out, then they tried to flood the game with high-end materials. I strongly suspect some kind of duping exploit, meaning they probably made their seed cash by just selling duped items to NPCs; however, some money did certainly change hands on the market (in particular, people were selling BCs at inflated prices in response, I assume the 'sploiters wanted the crowns in order to unlock infinite sell slots).

They took down the servers about 2-3 hours after this started, and seemingly purged any traces from the market with no rollback; I assume they're working on tracking down all the materials that got distributed, but I'm curious what they're going to do about e.g. blue crowns that got bought/sold for unusual prices *and redeemed* during this period. v0v
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:16 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Tanning: 43 (Solone/Lanferite/Huberian)
Sewing: 44 (Salandrin/Borm/Blueroc)
Jewelry: 43 (Solone/Lanferite/Blueroc)

Rises to 49, 50, and 49 with a Fashion House, respectively. Requires it for better Sewing. Costs a fortune, though. Recommends the above machines before the Fashion House.


BTW is the fashion house a constant +6 bonus, or is it supposed to be proportional or something? I am considering upgrading mine (which is exactly as you suggested right now).

Likewise, is lab bonus a +6 one as well?

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:24 pm UTC

Calculates it as 10 + (Machine * 0.9).

Tanning example:
10 + (43 * .9) = 10 + 38.7 = 48.7. Rounds to 49.

Applies to Laboratory too.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:13 pm UTC

Ah ! Thanks.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:30 pm UTC

That's pretty much the standard way to calculate almost anything in game.

Final value = Base_value + [(100-base_value)/100]*( C_1*stat_1 + C_2*stat_2 +...+C_n*stat_n)

So as Deva said a fashion house has a base 10 in sewing/jewelry/tanning. So in those cases C1 is 1 (100%) and stat_1 is the appropriate machine stat.

For composite long bows it's something like: 25 + 0.75* (0.4*hardness + 03*rigidity + 0.2*finesse + 0.1*lightness)

where hardness, rigidity, finesse and lightness come from some combination of the pieces you use to make it. For composite bows the highest of each stat is taken from all the components. Harnois I believe works similarly. However, plate armor actually averages the stats of each component which is why using two metals for plate and the same two for harnois give different stat distributions (and harnois has a higher base value of course).

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:57 pm UTC

So if someone made a machine with a bonus inferior to 10, they would be able to use 100 % of their fashion house bonus \o/.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:38 pm UTC

Grop wrote:So if someone made a machine with a bonus inferior to 10, they would be able to use 100 % of their fashion house bonus \o/.


Uh what?

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Grop » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:19 pm UTC

Nevermind that was nonsense.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:09 pm UTC

The best kind of sense.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:41 pm UTC

Updates
Owns lots of Thundercoal (65 Thermal Strength) now, for those interested.

Learned Solettam, Demonam, Nocturiam, and Nuertam Dyes (Shadow dyes). Working on Glory dyes next.

Reaches 40 Soriason and Jotungar on a Stone-focused character tomorrow. Accesses Runic Mortar and Pestle and Lithosnow Monolith. Might be useful someday. (Put in Giant Pine actions recently. Still stands a ways away. Realizes a Foundrywork/Engineering Temple comes first.)

Current goals
- Harvest Salancedar. Plans to offer it to guild members for cheap. (Depends on annoyance, though.)
- Increase Jewelry. Means churning out awful Clearmoon Yggdracin.
- Glory dyes (as above).
- Improve personal guild. Includes factories and Megalithic recipes. Currently a low priority.

Wishes to purchase a Runic Axe, also. Will provide a rune and potion. Lacks Kryamane Ingots. (Would not mind other runic tools either.)
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:32 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure cutting salancedar is REALLy annoying currently. I don't think its possible to do it without a potion and last I checked I think it's not possible to build a sleeping area in the swamp (don't think you can meet the land requirements on anything even with the protosensor).

Also if you need Deva there is room in the alt Krya guild for a character if you want to start mining. The factory and mine are up, and the mansion is being worked on.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:13 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I'm pretty sure cutting salancedar is REALLy annoying currently. I don't think its possible to do it without a potion and last I checked I think it's not possible to build a sleeping area in the swamp (don't think you can meet the land requirements on anything even with the protosensor).

Assumed as much with 68 skill. (Dealt with Tarasquan Botany already.) Expects 1-3, ~30% every three hours. Creates excellent rails, though, among other machines. (+8 over Azulio for Rails for Stones/Ore.)

Admits to wanting a mill too. Never checked the math. Presumes a high time investment. Hrm.

Assume four actions per day. Averages 4 * (2 * .3) = 2.4 logs per day. Recalls 1-2 planks per log. (Did not learn the recipe yet.) Equals 2.4 * 1.5 = 3.6 planks per day. 500 / 3.6 = 138.889 days (and 278 potions) per watermill. Means 16.667 days for Rails, consequently.

Chen wrote:Also if you need Deva there is room in the alt Krya guild for a character if you want to start mining. The factory and mine are up, and the mansion is being worked on.

Pass. Dislikes dealing with the record system. Would rather build everything in the personal guild. Exists to avoid similar with Charbalitic Clusters.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:22 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Assumed as much with 68 skill. (Dealt with Tarasquan Botany already.) Expects 1-3, ~30% every three hours. Creates excellent rails, though, among other machines. (+8 over Azulio for Rails for Stones/Ore.)

Admits to wanting a mill too. Never checked the math. Presumes a high time investment. Hrm.

Assume four actions per day. Averages 4 * (2 * .3) = 2.4 logs per day. Recalls 1-2 planks per log. (Did not learn the recipe yet.) Equals 2.4 * 1.5 = 3.6 planks per day. 500 / 3.6 = 138.889 days (and 278 potions) per watermill. Means 16.667 days for Rails, consequently.


The real problem I find is the micromanagement since you can't automate more than one attempt at a time. Would probably mean, personally, I could only get 2-3 actions in per day. And even that might be tricky since moving in and out of the swamp is pretty damn deadly so you'd need to micromanage that too, if for nothing else to drink a pheonix elixir if you get mutilated going TO your concession.

Chen wrote:Pass. Dislikes dealing with the record system. Would rather build everything in the personal guild. Exists to avoid similar with Charbalitic Clusters.


Fair enough. Though I'll note the recording system is going to become less of a hassel at the alt guild since you can actually just pick up your finished clusters and store em in your bag since the alt will, eventually, never need to leave the spot. In any case, let me know if ya need something like the factory or whatnot built (although again I think we have a ton of extra factory blueprints).

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:03 pm UTC

Chen wrote:The real problem I find is the micromanagement since you can't automate more than one attempt at a time. Would probably mean, personally, I could only get 2-3 actions in per day. And even that might be tricky since moving in and out of the swamp is pretty damn deadly so you'd need to micromanage that too, if for nothing else to drink a pheonix elixir if you get mutilated going TO your concession.

Shrugs. Finds it decent. Ought to manage two actions per potion. Typically logs in twice a day, at least.

Always exited and entered from the north. Braves Troglowolves daily for runic fragments in weak armor. Rarely dies. Constructed a 40 Comfort Hut in Lufomir for decent rest. (Might spring for Starfield. Grabbed a Snow Protosensor already.)
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:33 am UTC

Deva wrote:Shrugs. Finds it decent. Ought to manage two actions per potion. Typically logs in twice a day, at least.

Always exited and entered from the north. Braves Troglowolves daily for runic fragments in weak armor. Rarely dies. Constructed a 40 Comfort Hut in Lufomir for decent rest. (Might spring for Starfield. Grabbed a Snow Protosensor already.)


Hmm the encounters at the Tarrasquan gates going INTO Starfield also trigger Starfield encounters? It didn't used to be like that. If you entered from the Swamp side you used to get Swamp encounters and if you entered from the Starfield side you got Starfield encounters.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:18 pm UTC

Hmm. Recalls only Starfield encounters at Tarasquan Doors, regardless of direction. Never mattered. Rested after leaving. (Crossed through after Wyvernus sometimes too. Remembers nothing bad.)
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:18 pm UTC

Maybe Im just misremembering then. I may run some tests later on this evening if I have time.

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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:27 pm UTC

Ah, there we go. Norstria reputation questlines finished, and doors to Lanfar revealed. No more boat trips for me (just getting #rekt by swamp catoblepas and friends, apparently...)

Now on to learning metascience, maybe boosting Forging and learning Harnois, building my Den sanctuary, and generally faffing about~
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:58 pm UTC

If you can doing the Loupuntar daily action to get runes and such is quite useful. You need around 40 Archeology for it, but its much easier to manage if you're walking through the swamp (or flying there :P)

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DaBigCheez
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:09 pm UTC

Yeah, I should get in the habit of doing daily actions, keeping reputation turn-ins on cooldown, etc. I've pretty much not been bothering while still doing questlines, which I'm sure is gonna come back to bite me <_< Have just been chillin' in the Great Heron room to accumulate some cash during downtimes.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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DaBigCheez
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:21 pm UTC

So, what's the deal with the Nortstrian Temple? It lists Forging, Herbalism, and Strength bonuses, including Runic strength, but I don't see any actions available there. Is it something locked to the guild leader (starting something equivalent to the Rhumbular Festival), or is there a quest I have to do somewhere, or...?
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Deva
Has suggestions for the murderers out there.
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Re: Therian Saga

Postby Deva » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:29 pm UTC

Only allows Runic Forging and Runic Potions. Displays nothing without recipes. Learns them from reputation vendors.
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