Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

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CorruptUser
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:39 pm UTC

The last time I bought a computer game from a store was Skyrim, and that was from Walmart because no other store had it. Walmart had dozens of copies, because they probably strongarmed them.

Never buying from a store again.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:23 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Steam was $50. Did I overpay?

Also I never quite understood why Steam is the same price as the box. I mean, they don't have to manufacture the boxes and dvds, they don't have to worry about making more boxes than people will buy. And they can offer random deals to get the people who weren't going to buy in the first place. Plus, kiiinda hard to pirate when it requires steam. Valve is raking in the money if you ask me. What, is Half-Life 3 going to be inside a VR system?


The game is €50 on Steam for me, yet I can pre-order it from several stores for about €38 including shipping, and those aren't even the large stores. They charge €50 or more, including shipping.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ahammel » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:15 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Game stores force this. They require that online sales are at least as expensive as offline sales, or they refuse to sell the game.

Wonder how long it'll be before the online sales are a large enough fraction of the market that they can tell the game stores to fuck themselves.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:58 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
Diadem wrote:Game stores force this. They require that online sales are at least as expensive as offline sales, or they refuse to sell the game.

Wonder how long it'll be before the online sales are a large enough fraction of the market that they can tell the game stores to fuck themselves.

Particularly annoying is when you go out and buy a physical copy of the game from a shop only to find once you get home that it's actually just a product key and a stub for the online installer - if I wanted to buy the downloadable version, I'd stay in my nice climate-regulated house rather than venturing Outside...

In my case, it's doubly annoying because I'm on a bandwidth limited connection, so if I want to install something like Starcraft II, I have to pay a fee for exceeding my monthly bandwidth allowance, leaving me with spare DVD cases that contain less data than a floppy (and most of that is the background image for the launcher) but take up just as much shelf-space as a game that doesn't require a full day of internet to install because the boxed copy actually contains the game in the box...

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Yakk » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:58 pm UTC

Game stores can demand such things because they provide marketing placement (the boxes themselves).

On the other hand, physical book stores have basically been defeated by Amazon in a similar confrontation.

Steam and steam sales attempts to recreate that kind of thing, with the popups and the like being the equivalent of the game store "boxes on shelves" and "cardboard displays".

The grail of online selling is to become the place where people go to check out what they want to buy when they have money burning a hole in their pocket (I want a new game), because that gives them the leverage of being able to direct where consumer money goes, and that lets them turn around and demand higher margins (and or kick backs) from producers.

You can also see this in your local grocery stores, who squeeze their sellers (give us a good deal and markup, or we won't place your product), which are places people go with money burning a hole in their pocket to buy food.

On the down side, this is why producer costs for food have plummeted, but retail costs have remained high and growing.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:32 pm UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, e-books are already cheaper than physical books. Seems like a similar situation, what caused that?

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Diadem » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:47 pm UTC

Amazon is big enough that they can tell publishing houses to go fuck themselves if they tried to make demands like that. And remember that Amazon got big selling physical books, way before ebooks were a serious thing, because ereaders weren't up to par yet.

Honestly though I think it should be possible for games too. I'm not sure why game companies don't tell gaming stores take a hike. You'd think window shopping is very irrelevant for games. I would expect gamers to look online for reviews, and talk to other gamers.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:59 am UTC

When Valve comes out with Half-Life 3, you can bet your ass they aren't going to listen to what the retailers say.

Half-Life 3 confirmed!

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:10 am UTC

Wait, you're paying $50?

On Steam it tells me its $89.99. I know the aussie dollar isn't as strong as the US, but that markup is ridiculous. Am I paying for shipping? No! What gives?
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:26 am UTC

On top of that, the UK is getting a really good deal; as it stands now

Aus: €63,85 / $83,97 / 50,99 GBP / 89,99 AUD
EU: €50,00 / $65,76 / 39,93 GBP / 70,47 AUD
US: €38,01 / $49,99 / 30,35 GBP / 53,57 AUD
UK: €37,56 / $49,39 / 29,99 GBP / 52,93 AUD

So the Australians pay almost 70% more compared to the UK/US and ~30% more than the EU. Frankly, this is ridiculous. Luckily, if I get it from somewhere else than Steam, I can get prizes similar to the UK/US ones and still have a Steam-enable copy and all the pre-order bonuses, for ~ 25% less, I know what I'm gonna do.

Although I might wait to see if they actually release a demo or some of the reviews right after release...

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Sytri » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:20 pm UTC

I just pre-ordered on amazon.co.uk and got it for £26.99 and with amazon if they raise the price, I still get it for £26.99/$44.40/€33.81

Yay I got a bargain :)
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:48 pm UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:Wait, you're paying $50?

On Steam it tells me its $89.99. I know the aussie dollar isn't as strong as the US, but that markup is ridiculous. Am I paying for shipping? No! What gives?


Based on Diadem's claim, I think it's because the retailers in Australia sell it to you for $90, therefore steam has to as well.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:54 pm UTC

It's just the general Australia markup.

100 years of expensive imports has left a mark.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:01 pm UTC

Apparently Harmony is getting Godzillas to do their fighting.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:45 am UTC

GOHZIRRA!

Anyway, since this seems to be Civ V in space, can we get a Master of Magic version of Civ V the way we got Master of Magic version of Civ I? Please?

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Gopher of Pern » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:59 am UTC

Hmm, I cant order the game code from Amazon.co.uk, it says its only available for US customers.

I have found one Aussie online retailer selling it for $50AUD, which is a bit more reasonable.

The markup is unbelievable.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:29 pm UTC

Game Stores v. Physical Stores.

Completely off-topic, but here's why it's not going to change for a while.

PC Games are not the driving force. Console Games are.

RIght now, I can buy pretty much any PC game I could want via some sort of online service, probably Steam, maybe GoG or Green Man or whatever. Humble Bundle even. All the physical stores around me pretty much sell WoW, Sims and shovelware for the PC. But the prices in the store are more or less the same as online, because of the distribution contracts EA, Vivendi and so on have signed. EA, Vivendi and so on also create console games. These are the big sellers and the primary focus because.. it's far more difficult to pirate a console game than it is to pirate a PC game. But the Brick&Mortar store won't sell the console games if the PC games are being sold at a reduced rate online. So they have to keep selling at the same price.

The only way to counteract that is to not give a damn what the box store says and just sell online. But there are very few companies who make PC-Only games and who know they have no desire to get into the console market such that they have no problem pissing off Wal-Mart forever.

So PC games are $50-60 New, just like in the store.

Now... the whole "It's $50 on Steam but Gamestop is seling at $38 if I pre-order"... that's a specific deal Gamestop worked out with the game company or whatever, and is considered a sale, not a price. The game is still $50 at Gamestop, there's just some immediate price savings or whatever, and in a month or after release or whenever, the price will jump back up to $50. It's a sale, not a constant price. They do it, especially on pre-orders, because there's a significant number of people who pre-order games, pay in full, and never pick the game up. Or at least there were 12 years ago, I see no reason why this would have changed.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:08 pm UTC

Given that consoles are designed to be hooked up to the Internet ANYWAY, why not build consoles that can purchase games through the net? Like, you are playing your X-Station and you purchase the latest NFL: The Maddening for $40. No big box store middlemen, you don't even need to leave the couch.

Would that save the world for PC games?

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:20 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Given that consoles are designed to be hooked up to the Internet ANYWAY, why not build consoles that can purchase games through the net? Like, you are playing your X-Station and you purchase the latest NFL: The Maddening for $40. No big box store middlemen, you don't even need to leave the couch.

Would that save the world for PC games?


Nintendo has the Virtual Console thing going, and I believe Sony and Microsoft have their own equivalents - ways to buy old/indie games to run on your shiny new console over the internet...

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby freezeblade » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:27 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Given that consoles are designed to be hooked up to the Internet ANYWAY, why not build consoles that can purchase games through the net? Like, you are playing your X-Station and you purchase the latest NFL: The Maddening for $40. No big box store middlemen, you don't even need to leave the couch.

Would that save the world for PC games?


They won't do this, because money is made on the over-priced games, the console hardware itself is generally sold at a loss.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:53 pm UTC

How would it lower their revenues? If Sony can sell directly to the consumer, it skips out Walmart entirely. They can charge 2/3 the price and still make more money. It's Walmart that gets fucked.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby freezeblade » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:09 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:It's Walmart that gets fucked.


One does not just simply fuck walmart. no seriously, companies are too afraid of them to do it.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Yablo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:17 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Anyway, since this seems to be Civ V in space, can we get a Master of Magic version of Civ V the way we got Master of Magic version of Civ I? Please?

I can't possibly second this request fast enough. For years, Master of Magic was the reason to have a computer. I heard once that if Master of Orion III did well enough, we'd get a Master of Magic II.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:41 pm UTC

Stardock tried to obtain the rights to do that. They made Elemental instead. It was... Incomplete. I did get a free game out of it though.

Age of Wonders 1 and 2 were okay I guess. Never could get into them though. Haven't tried 3.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:15 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Given that consoles are designed to be hooked up to the Internet ANYWAY, why not build consoles that can purchase games through the net? Like, you are playing your X-Station and you purchase the latest NFL: The Maddening for $40. No big box store middlemen, you don't even need to leave the couch.

Would that save the world for PC games?
Ehhh... even with internet being such a big thing, I can only assume they are watching the numbers of total consoles sold v. unique consoles online during the average month and conclude that direct selling over the internet is simply not financially viable.

Because why else would they sell first party software in the store if they could sell it online and get more of that $50-60 for themselves?
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:47 am UTC

Some people buy console games as gifts for friends' children. It just doesn't seem right to open your Christmas presents and find a code you redeem for CoD42 rather than the game itself. And roughly 30% of last generations' consoles weren't hooked up online at all, so online only sales meant only 70% of possible market.

That's ignoring the possibility of a Devil's Deal where the big box stores would drop you if you tried online games before online grew large enough. I mean, even I was hesitant to switch to online purchases at first, but now I love it.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:16 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's ignoring the possibility of a Devil's Deal where the big box stores would drop you if you tried online games before online grew large enough. I mean, even I was hesitant to switch to online purchases at first, but now I love it.

What do you mean by online purchases? Buying the game in whatever form online or essentially just buying a license to the game, then having to download it? My experience so far with buying boxed copies online is that you still get a DVD in the box. Mass Effect 3, Tropico 5, Civilization 5 and Anno 1404/Venice/2070 were all boxed copies I ordered online, because they were cheaper than buying them on Steam or Origin, all came with discs in the box. In fact, the only example I have for just a code in a box is when I bought BF2142: Northern Strike from an actual store. On the other hand, I also don't mind ordering from Steam; when downloading large files from Steam my internet speed will often reach 20 MB/s, so even large games are done downloading within 15 minutes. These days I just buy what's cheaper.

Now back to the game, has anyone seen the virtues yet? It seems like an interesting system, choosing multiple virtues from the same category will net you a bonus corresponding to that category (extra science and culture for knowledge, etc), but getting virtues from the same tiers, but not necessarily the same categories will get you bonuses as well, such as free virtues/technology or even +10% food/science/production/culture in ALL cities. Seems better than Civ 5 where you sort of need to finish a policy tree for the kicker, but some policies are useless (free great admiral, anyone?). I'd still like to see a social engineering screen next to this, which you can change at will depending on what you need, like in previous games, but I suppose this might work good as well.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:00 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:It just doesn't seem right to open your Christmas presents and find a code you redeem for CoD42 rather than the game itself.

...so... Steamplay games? Orange Box is the first physical game I bought that did this, I understand Skyrim also did something pretty similar.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:37 am UTC

Well, based on all the playtroughs I've seen, I caved and pre-ordered it at 25% of the steam price.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

4 days to go *squee*

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Adacore » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:47 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:It just doesn't seem right to open your Christmas presents and find a code you redeem for CoD42 rather than the game itself.

...so... Steamplay games? Orange Box is the first physical game I bought that did this, I understand Skyrim also did something pretty similar.

I know the copy of Forza that came with my Xbox One just had a square of cardboard with a QR code in the box. I actually like the system, but it would be really obnoxious if I didn't have an awesome internet connection.

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:36 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:4 days to go *squee*

4? I thought it was released on the 24th, so 7 days to go still. Hope I'm wrong though :P

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:46 pm UTC

Whoops, I'm wrong. :(

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:11 pm UTC

Should anyone have bought it on steam, you can pre-load it now. I'm still waiting for my physical copy

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Gopher of Pern » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:34 pm UTC

Ordered yesterday, and just now pre-loaded the game. Debating whether to take tomorrow off.

Probably going to go heavy science / Supremacy for my first play through.
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:21 pm UTC

Wait, doesn't it come out on Friday, not tomorrow?

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby clockworkmonk » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:11 am UTC

unlock time by location, spoiler'd for sized
Spoiler:
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:41 am UTC

Tomorrow is Friday, my time-hampered friend :)
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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby ArgonV » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:37 am UTC

I really do hope my copy actually comes in today, since it'll be unlocked during the night here. That means I can get up and play, since tomorrow evening I will have friends over for dinner, I have to work Saturday and after that I will be going to the bockbeerfestival in the evening. So that means either playing drunk or wait 'till Sunday :(

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Re: Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:57 pm UTC

Dammit I was hoping to get some sleep tonight...


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