Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

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Biliboy
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Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Sat May 03, 2014 7:51 pm UTC

Has anyone else been following the development of this game? ( http://novusaeterno.com )(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0SXMTsBtOc)

It's looking like it will scratch an itch I've been having lately. An Eve-scale free to play space battle/colonization game, with heavy ship customization and rts style fleet battles. There's pretty short build times, so losing a battle isn't rage-inducing, and fleets are limited with a 'command point' system, so newbies aren't completely outmatched by veteran players.

According to the devs, it's not pay to win, cash shop items are all cosmetic, similar to LoL's system.

That youtube link above had the game's main developer showing one neat tactic, ships that explode do aoe damage to nearby ships, so he does a micro ftl-jump with a nearly destroyed ship into the middle of his opponent's fleet, where it promptly explodes. Another neat idea is the concept of crews gaining experience, instead of the whole unit, so take that elite cruiser crew and throw them into a battleship to upgrade it's abilities.

They are also talking about giving fighter units different types of missions besides just being a very small damage source. Send them out as a debuff to enemy speed/accuracy, or set them on defensive missions to defend vs missiles/fighters.

*edit* found a new gameplay video from them as of a few days ago, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZ8SNg2 ... 67t9JAGfVg, shows some of the newer additions to the game.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat May 03, 2014 10:18 pm UTC

When's the release? It sounds neat.

If you're interested in another EVE like MMORTS, check out Therian Saga.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Koa » Sat May 03, 2014 11:08 pm UTC

It reminds me most of browser empire/space games like ogame, except of course with a 3d engine. In that case, so many questions. What happens when you log out? Can you be wiped out, or do you have a safety area somewhere like a homeworld? What is to stop people from going around and killing newbies? If a newbie can defend themselves because of a fleet size limit (ignoring getting 3v1'd, which is another problem), how do you become more powerful, and, why would you want to become more powerful if it's more of a superficial thing since fleets build quickly and etc.

A lot of the point of Eve is that you are a lone pilot roaming the universe making ends meet in various forms, but since this is about building an empire and alliances, depending on the answers to the previous questions... What is ultimately the point? What is progression? Is it going to be like a Planetside 2 where you gain a base here, lose a base there, endless battles forever? What is to stop mega alliances from getting out of control and taking over huge portions of the galaxy? They seem rather idealistic when it comes to these conflicting mechanics. Everyone seems interested in the details of the sandbox but in my opinion those decisions will be what defines the game.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Sat May 03, 2014 11:29 pm UTC

This is only info I've garnered from the forums the last few days, but here's some answers to some of your questions.

The command point limit works like population cap, but better techs take more cp's, so a hugely upgraded capital ship will take a large % of your cp total, vs a fleet of basic frigates (or whatever the smallest ship hull is) for the same cost. It sounds like there will be plenty of room for rock/paper/scissors type stuff in the tactics. One of the mechanics they are wanting to add is ships blocking projectiles, so, for example, placing cheap destroyers around your carriers or missile platforms to protect them.

Research is not based on a tech tree, but rather random 'ideas' generated by your dudes on a random timer/battle's etc. The CEO gave the example of a scientist watching a battle from your planet, and getting the idea to improve your anti-missile point defense. You send that to research, and sometime later out pops a slightly better point defense system, with the accompanying slightly higher cp cost per unit. There's a good chance that a newbie player can research something no one else in the area has, and can sell those parts on the market, eg, a ftl engine with a better cooldown. They said there are thousands of these research items, and can easily add thousands more so that no one ever caps out. That sounds to me like small percentage increases mostly, but we'll see.

Alliances cap out at 15 people who can't attack each other, anything more takes real diplomacy, the example was given of an infiltrator joining a multi-alliance clan, attacking one guy in another alliance, switching to another alliance, attacking someone else, and sitting back to watch the fireworks as it falls apart. (side note, if your scan tech isn't good enough, you can't tell who attacked you, according to one video)

Offline status, you're vulnerable, but 15-30 min after logout the AI takes over, with much reduced construction cost/timers on your defending fleets. You can never lose your main planet, and perhaps two are always safe, any other planet can be taken, however there's mechanics that make it easier to retake your colonies you've owned a while. (Loyalty/resistance etc)

As far as the goal of the game, it sounds more like Eve, where progression is defined by the players, and politics is as important as fleet management. One dev said that the reduced fleet costs/build times made the alpha testers 'very british' about combat, little raging over losses and reducing the appeal of griefing.

Personally I'd view it as a rts game, just with the 'lobby' being in game and persistant.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Koa » Sun May 04, 2014 12:37 am UTC

I assume a limit on colonies as well then. It sounds very similar to ogame, but probably/hopefully without the f2p-style progression, and with the rts battles. I don't feel like it could have half of the scope of Eve in terms of 'progression being defined by the players' if they have all of these limits though, and with combat so expendable. 15 person alliance with expendable+limited fleets means there can never be a large scale and costly war with politics and espionage that makes all of the amazing stories that come out of Eve. Instead everyone will be fighting and trading endlessly in their own circle of nearby systems. No one will care what is going on in someone else's circle, because it will always be roughly the same thing, just with different densities and frequencies. I wouldn't compare that to Eve at all. It would be more like the RTS of Planetside 2... if that makes sense to anyone. A lite version of an established genre with persistency elements instead of a win state.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Sun May 04, 2014 9:07 pm UTC

I would think that 15 people with, I don't know, 30-50 ships each (what I've seen from videos) would make for some pretty epic space battles in support of trying to take another alliance's good planets, and if they are relatively cheap, then you get those battles more often. I've read of Eve players and guilds that have essentially infinite ships, if they stick to T2, and don't blow everything on a supercap or something, so it's essentially the same there.

Even if the ships are cheap, there still seems to be limits on how fast you can completely replace your fleet over and over. Only a certain number of hulls can be launched, and while you can stockpile ship parts (and trade them) there'll be a time you run out and have to make more.

I don't see any of this being particularly bad though, if there were no limits on alliance sizes and/or colonies, then you know that someone's clan would end up owning half the universe and denying anyone else any fun. I also know that I wouldn't be in that clan.

I'll enjoy playing the game for the customization and tactics, and take a break from the vast selection of fantasy games that seem to dominate nowadays.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Koa » Mon May 05, 2014 12:20 am UTC

Sure there can be some big battles depending on what their server architecture and networking can support, but I think those big battles will be happening all over the place and while they will have meaning to those players in the battle (or those who are in the local circle that I was explaining before), it won't have any meaning to someone on the other side of the galaxy. Which would be much unlike Eve since events that happen in Eve can affect those who don't even play the game. It was never the size of the battles that made those events interesting. It was the cost.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though, it's not my intent to discredit the game because it's not like Eve. My posts here have been about defining the game because a lot of the concepts presented are mutually exclusive. You can't have a game with large scale politics and stakes like Eve, and have a game where people don't rage over losing a battle with low potential for griefing, like Planetside. Another example would be death penalty in an MMORPG. Death either matters or it doesn't matter, with shades in between of course. The more it matters, the stronger the politics and drama and etc. It's why there are hardly any stories that come out of World of Warcraft or Planetside for people to share. Nothing of note was ever at stake. So, this game leans towards not mattering, and that's fine. It lets people play and have fun with little commitment. I might try it for a while when it comes out. I just don't think that it should be presented in this idealistic way of eating the cake and having it too.

No doubt this game will have politics and trading and war, but not even to half of the extent of Eve, by necessity of the limitations. Maybe that was a misunderstanding between us on namedropping Eve, but I also gathered that from some of the developer videos.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Tue May 06, 2014 12:01 am UTC

Ah yes, I see what you mean. Personally I never liked the games that had huge 'costs' as you define them, because I'm never able to invest enough of my time/interest to get to the point I'm doing the costing, instead of being costed. (I make new verbage woo) All of the games I'm playing at the moment have low potential to annoy me (apart from internet issues like lag, but that's on my end)

Maybe it'll mean that NA won't keep my interest for as long, but I'm willing to trade time-played-total for enjoyment-gained-per-time-unit.

On a related note, the first person to get into this game from the xkcd forums should start an alliance for the rest of us, then we can make our own content, like capturing planets on the galaxy map in the shape of a sand castle or something.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Sypheria » Thu May 08, 2014 3:02 am UTC

Hey guys,

I'm a dev on NA. Biliboy, you say that battles can affect players on the other side of a galaxy in EVE. How do they accomplish this?

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu May 08, 2014 5:16 am UTC

Sypheria wrote:Hey guys,

I'm a dev on NA. Biliboy, you say that battles can affect players on the other side of a galaxy in EVE. How do they accomplish this?

It's a handwavy claim you hear EVE fans make a lot. It's plausible but unlikely. A big war that sinks a lot of resources or disrupts a supply line could feasibly change the market value of goods in Jita, the central market exchange, but it's unlikely to be particularly dramatic, if it's even noticeable.
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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Sypheria » Thu May 08, 2014 5:55 am UTC

We hope to have something like that occur. That is the whole reason behind our research and crafting system being dynamic on a per player basis. We have people right now creating alliances to act as warehouses, wholesalers, shopfronts and shipping. Personally I really like the dynamic if it is successful.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Fri May 09, 2014 12:08 pm UTC

Sypheria wrote:Hey guys,

I'm a dev on NA. Biliboy, you say that battles can affect players on the other side of a galaxy in EVE. How do they accomplish this?



Don't believe that claim was made, at least not by me. I only played Eve for about a month and never left the protected areas. It wasn't really that I disliked it, but that I was already playing another mmo regularly and didn't want to sink the time into eve to get to the 'good stuff'.

However, now that we have you, maybe you could answer some of the questions that've come up? For example, Koa made a point that without some sort of goals eventually the game would get relatively static. Perhaps some sort of small bonuses attached to some planets/asteroid belts/flags that can be captured by a player, and apply to his alliance? That would give reason for larger scale alliance battles defending/capturing them.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Sypheria » Sat May 10, 2014 1:40 am UTC

There are several different sizes of planets; the larger planets giving more bonuses, but being more rare. The largest of all, what we currently call "epic planets" for lack of a better name, allow entire alliances to capture and gain massive bonuses. Only a few epics exist in every galaxy.

For the crafters, around 200 different materials can be accrued to give components(anything equippable on a unit) up to 5 stat bonuses for a smaller amount of CP than it normally would. Some of these materials come from specific space mineable assets, some from specific sized planets including epics, and some are exclusive to certain galaxies.

Likewise, officers give stat bonuses to entire fleets, squadrons, and ships for a fraction of the CP they normally would cost on a component. Higher level officers can grant unique skills which can be used in combat.

Both, craft augmented components and officers can be permanently lost if not cared for. While it's better to always retreat with your hulls badly damaged rather than be obliterated, it becomes more important with augmented components or officers on board. You can quickly replace a low-end fleet, but high end goods, which can give great advantages, will take longer to accumulate.

Every player will gain access to completely different technologies which result in different playstyles and tactics, like a pool of skillsets composed of every DotA, HoN, and League of Legends champion combined, rather than statistical alterations like +10 more DPS. A player who travels to different galaxies collecting components will have a tactical advantage over players who use only their own, neighbour's, or alliance's technology.

There are around 30 types of NPC factions each with their own sub-factions, affiliations, ideals and goals. They are scattered around the universe and constantly attempt to wrestle control of territory from players and other NPCs. Allying with a faction allows you to receive dynamic missions based on the current state of the universe. If players choose and have enough determination and skill, they can team up and wipe a entire faction out of the game permanently.
Last edited by Sypheria on Sat May 10, 2014 5:24 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Koa » Sat May 10, 2014 11:48 am UTC

Well, that sounds like it would put the game on the other end of the spectrum that I expressed. Consider me equal parts confused and interested. I suppose I will have to wait and see but it's good to see that there are some good ideas being planned*.

* Apparently I am terrible at English.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Sat May 10, 2014 12:25 pm UTC

So, as a long time sf fan, I'm interested in seeing how ringworlds and dyson spheres might fit into this universe...

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat May 10, 2014 2:30 pm UTC

I'm curious what separates it from EVE.
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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Sypheria » Sat May 10, 2014 5:15 pm UTC

Biliboy wrote:So, as a long time sf fan, I'm interested in seeing how ringworlds and dyson spheres might fit into this universe...


Dyson Spheres are alliance projects in which all members have a plate and gain massive bonuses. They slowly apply debuffs to all other planets in the solar system and convert their planet types if left long enough. Fully destructible, one plate at a time, they will become high priority targets to revert the state of the surrounding planets.

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm curious what separates it from EVE.


Since I personally have not played EVE, I can only give a general overview about what may differentiate the two games. I would say that EVE and NA are in completely different genres.

NA has the combat of Company of Heroes, Men of War, Homeworld, Sins of a Solar Empire, and League of Legends combined. The empire management resembles a mixture of Sim City, Civilization, and Hearts of Iron. Crafting has parallels with the Diablo 2 Horadric Cube without any static combinations across players. While there is no directly comparable research system that I know of, we want to have a much more expansive research system than Alpha Centari and Hearts of Iron. Unit customization is like Alpha Centari on steroids. Finally, ground combat will approximate Disciples, Civilization and Alpha Centari.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:02 pm UTC

http://novusaeterno.com/?p=22354

This is a Dev update that talks about future projects, so standard 'we want this but no guarantees it'll see release' caveats apply. That being said, this is awesome.
Work Orders
Foreign goods are a non-contractual interaction; once you buy them, they are yours. Work orders, on the other hand, expect the player to perform a specific task or series of tasks. These tasks can be something as simple as producing a product, picking up and delivering products or crafting augmentations to as complex as escorting a fleet and ensuring damage taken by the fleet is within a predefined limit.


and

Syndicates
Players who fulfill work orders by themselves are known as Freelancers. Players have the option to create a Syndicate which contains many players but has a single history, can accept work orders, and can divide up tasks between members. Players apply to syndicates with their past syndicate/freelance history. Syndicates do not have a member limit such as alliances and a player may belong to up to 3 syndicates; however, there is no chat to help facilitate coordination. The higher tiered members of syndicates may post rules or other messages visible to all members, view member history and may offer a task to one or more members, or post tasks directly to a syndicate exclusive offer board.

Members may receive a weekly salary, a weekly salary only if participating that week, paid on completion of a task, or any of the above mixed with a commission. Excess funds may be given out by the leader to members or used to level up the syndicate.


Adding 'Defend my shipping lanes' work orders in a game that promises piracy and you have a real reason for small scale space battles, not just "I shoot red names hurr".

I don't know why more games with any semblance of a player driven economy don't have something like work orders.

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Re: Novus Aeterno - first MMORTS?

Postby Biliboy » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:56 pm UTC

Sort-of-necro for news. I've been checking up every so often on this game because of how interesting it looks, and though it seemed for a bit to have been lost in limbo, it looks like it'll get released after all.

http://forum.novusaeterno.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14679

I'll be throwing some money at it on release it looks like.


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