Gaming fleeting thoughts

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Ginger
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:19 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:My guess: first time it happens, media outrage! Parents concerned! Splashy headlines! Second time around, without the shock value that a game that has players take on the role of a professional thug and rewards them for massacring bystanders, killing cops, and generally being a violent criminal also has a minigame for having consensual sex in the context of a relationship. Without that shock value, and without any on-screen action, what's the story? "Parents fail to read back of game case"?

Not bad guesses. I suppose you right? Anyways, games often... exotic up others' cultures especially white peoples' games... making blacks into tribal savages or urban OGs? Kinda weird, odd and strange that... white men are sometimes criminals yet. Never quite as over the top as black peoples' savages and criminals? I not saying... it's true of, like, every game and even the series we talking about had white male protagonists just. I see the exotic upping of black tribes in RPGs a lot. The orcs' original skin tones were even... brown, like real brown peoples' and some black peoples', skin tones... and those were monstrous later turned green skins orcs? Not humans? Anyways so: Other cultures especially black women's and men's cultures get treat badly in games I feel. Just my thoughts love them or leave them? Ha-ha. :D
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:56 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Is anyone else annoyed by the seeming trend in MMOs of eliminating the holy trinity, such that the only obstacle to success is 'more dakka'? I feel like there's a lot of room to share role burden, and maybe making it so everyone can do a little of everything is fine, but a lot of the games that I've been seeing over the last few years seem to have more or less completely done away with all notions of role diversity.

In a tabletop game, screw the Trinity; everyone play what you want, and I'll write a damned fine story to suit what you've made.

In an MMO, the Trinity is important. For soloing or questing, any classes/roles should be able to handle it, and for that, you need a little overlap like self-heals and aggro-dump abilities, but in a dungeon or raid, teamwork is the real challenge. If five characters who can tank, heal, and DPS at the same time go into a dungeon, it's boring, and the one good player can easily carry the rest.

Focusing on your role makes the cooperative experience worthwhile. I remember when World of Warcraft first introduced the concept of Heroic-level dungeons. They were hard. Not only did you have to know your role, but you had to be good at it, too. And even then, you had to try, and everyone had to be on the same page.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:24 pm UTC

I've found that roles only really matter in dungeons, raids and PVP battlegrounds on my little game. Just questing for your Artifacts Weapons and whatnot? You can tank, heal and DPS. Yourself. I've even solo take on like, five or six enemies, with just my li'l gnomish holy priestess. In dungeons tho' I got to know my roles. Healing is really, really truly difficult. I like doing damages better. I use my destruction warlock blood elf lady/woman/girl to blast them with Shadowburns, Rains of Hellfire, Chaos Bolts... Cataclysms? And the AOEs definitely help me take on multiple mobs at once yet: One stray enemy gets out, ppls not doing their tanking DPSing or healing and... I die, die, die really fast and quick regardless what classes I picked.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 am UTC

In dungeons, roles seem to matter more for large pulls than single, powerful ones. When Zul'Aman (I think - it was one of the raids-turned-heroics) was formatted for 5-man heroics, I tanked it on my warrior. We got to the last boss (the shapeshifting one), and everyone else died almost instantly. With my health-leeching and self-healing, I managed to solo the boss. It took forever, and I should have just wiped so everyone could participate, but I wanted to see if I could do it.

I shouldn't have been able to, but the game had been gradually shifting toward self-sufficient characters for so long that I just had to remember when to use my self-healing abilities, and it was a foregone conclusion.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 am UTC

Yeah, from a design perspective, varied roles such that no one character can cover everything sufficiently is crucial to designing a multiplayer game (as opposed to a single-player game where you can team up with other people and play together). The trouble with such an intrinsically multiplayer setup is that it means some players are forced to adopt roles other than their preferred in order to enable a party to succeed. Also, players who have trouble finding a group to play with will have a worse time, and a group only missing one role will still have to take pot luck on random strangers to find someone actually competent who can fill that role...

Allowing players to build characters capable of covering all roles (just barely) is going to mean that players have more freedom in party composition, but also means that players will potentially be able to solo the game by doing extra grinding to stay ahead of the level curve...

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:35 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Allowing players to build characters capable of covering all roles (just barely) is going to mean that players have more freedom in party composition, but also means that players will potentially be able to solo the game by doing extra grinding to stay ahead of the level curve...

While I still very much prefer a setup that requires varied roles to succeed in situations like dungeons, I'm much more accepting of a game that rewards a player with that level of power due to grinding or even blind luck than I am of one that rewards a player for handing over $19.95 for a gear upgrade pack or something similar.

Of course, take all the money you can for things like cosmetic changes, race and server changes, pets and mounts, whatever ... Just don't give out anything that provides an actual in-game advantage to someone willing to spend the money. I understand it's a perfectly viable business model, but it completely turns me off.

One exception is if the game is free-to-play with no restrictions up to a certain level and then has a subscription model for higher-level content.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:50 pm UTC

Blizzard gets me with their in game shop's items so, so much... and it's like: $60-65 dollars to go straight up boosting to 110? Why Blizz why?
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:00 pm UTC

Oh, sorry, I absolutely should have specified that this only applies to MMOs.

I liked the way Rift did it, and each class has specs available that let them do any role (dps, tank, support, heals). I'd be cool if games came up with more roles! But I find ditching the roles entirely to be less fun. GW2 kind of abandoned it, but someone spec'd for heals is usually required for some of the later dungeons, though it still doesn't feel like classically keeping the party alive. Black Desert Online does the more dakka routine where a few classes have tank or heal 'trends'.

I did a Pathfinder play by post recently and took a few heal/support spells, and ended up barely needing them. It was disappointing.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:17 pm UTC

Ginger wrote:Blizzard gets me with their in game shop's items so, so much... and it's like: $60-65 dollars to go straight up boosting to 110? Why Blizz why?

Hmmm ... Two hours of work to buy my way to max level or a few days of grinding and instancing to get there. It may be counter-intuitive, but as much as I hate leveling now (since I've done it so much), I would still rather put in the time than hand over the money.

Izawwlgood wrote:Oh, sorry, I absolutely should have specified that this only applies to MMOs.


It's a little disheartening to be in a group where the designated "healer" decides he's just going to DPS in Shadow-spec rather than heal in Holy because "it'll be faster that way." It's also disheartening to see a traditional Tank-Healer-3 DPS group where everyone is max level except one DPS who is only level 20, and that level 20 is second on the DPS meter because he's the new race/class/whatever and is wearing the best gear he could buy with real money.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:54 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:It's a little disheartening to be in a group where the designated "healer" decides he's just going to DPS in Shadow-spec rather than heal in Holy because "it'll be faster that way."
In most situations I would be surprised if this worked.

Yablo wrote:and that level 20 is second on the DPS meter because he's the new race/class/whatever and is wearing the best gear he could buy with real money.
I have never seen this happen, and would find that to be terrible game design if it did. Even at the height of Rift's cash grab, when they were selling heirloom lvl capped adaptive gear and just released a new class, it wasn't that bad.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:56 pm UTC

Ginger wrote:Blizzard gets me with their in game shop's items so, so much... and it's like: $60-65 dollars to go straight up boosting to 110? Why Blizz why?
Oh, in a lot of cases, I think the grind to cap is tedious and unneccesary, especially if you've already done it on a couple of characters, and if all the content is aimed for characters at cap. I don't find a bunch of 'kill six $thing' quests to be particularly interesting at any point, nor do I think the grind to cap is particularly entertaining.

It's training. It's to make sure you understand your class, and in most cases, it's clear that most players who get to cap still don't, so, as a training mechanism is kind of a poor one.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:00 pm UTC

Oh yes, I agree: Much better contents, dungeons, PVP battlegrounds and raids and scenarios from Pandaria and Pet Battles? So, much better at 110. So I pay anyways, whenever I can like, afford it and not overspends? Anyways, I agree too re: Training you to use your class by grinding to level caps is tedious, boring and makes me want to sleepy times. So I pay to have a better experiences and I am. I've done Maw of Souls on Heroic difficulty already and beat up Helya twice. I am not saying I am an awesome player woman yet: If I can learn my class by dying a lot at max levels why can't other players if they got the cash? So I feel: No shame.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Yablo wrote:and that level 20 is second on the DPS meter because he's the new race/class/whatever and is wearing the best gear he could buy with real money.
I have never seen this happen, and would find that to be terrible game design if it did. Even at the height of Rift's cash grab, when they were selling heirloom lvl capped adaptive gear and just released a new class, it wasn't that bad.

The reason I was so specific is that it happened to a World of Warcraft group I was in a couple days ago. Granted, it was a Valentine's Day holiday event rather than an actual dungeon, but yeah. It was a level 20 Warlock of whatever the new Elf race is.

New races and classes are almost always terribly overpowered until things have a chance to balance. The same thing happened with Monks and Death Knights.

When Wrath of the Lich King came out, I had pretty much given up on everything but PvP for a while. I had top of the line PvP gear on my level 80 Mage, and I was out minding my own business (on a PvP server). A little gnome Mage waited until I had a large group of spiders I was fighting, and he jumped me. I froze the spiders, turned, and one-shotted the gnome. The gnome went and got his level 68-ish Death Knight guildie (or maybe it was his alt), and he proceeded to murder me about 5 or 6 times in a row.

I know balance is something that has to work itself out, and it's a never-ending process, but still ... There are test servers for a reason. Balance should never be that off, even with a brand new race or class, and it happens every time.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:27 am UTC

And as to MMORPGs fantasy genre in general: Stop with so much magics, elves and even some high convoluted technology babbles they do. I like sci fi, I like high fantasies I just: No more skinny, anorexic elves. I'd even take undead, ogres or bug ladies and women over... skinny, magic addicted elves. Or high convoluted engineering that doesn't even follow real sciences?
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:41 am UTC

Yablo wrote:The reason I was so specific is that it happened to a World of Warcraft group I was in a couple days ago. Granted, it was a Valentine's Day holiday event rather than an actual dungeon, but yeah. It was a level 20 Warlock of whatever the new Elf race is.
Weird and disappointing.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:53 am UTC

Yablo wrote:It was a level 20 Warlock of whatever the new Elf race is.

Horde gets Nightborne and Alliance gets Void Elves? Two elves' species for the prices of one expansion? Yay yay elfies' prides~! *Power fist gestures everywhere.*
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:39 am UTC

Ginger wrote:
Yablo wrote:It was a level 20 Warlock of whatever the new Elf race is.

Horde gets Nightborne and Alliance gets Void Elves? Two elves' species for the prices of one expansion? Yay yay elfies' prides~! *Power fist gestures everywhere.*

I'd gladly trade regular gnomes for leper gnomes, too.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:48 am UTC

Gnomes are already least represented in Blizzard's game. And, like, totally I agree with adding leper gnomes. A lot a lot of them were irradiated in the fall of Gnomeregan, which is a silly name for your race's capitol but yo? What you gonna do? *Shrugs her bony shoulders a bit.* Anyways, the starting quests in Gnomeregan for gnomes tell entirely how, you irradiated and in danger of becoming a 'degenerate leper gnome,' so: Why not add leper gnomes to the Alliance's forces? Gross green radiation Gnomes For the Alliance's glories and victories in future wars! /me cheers for the leper gnomes!
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:26 am UTC

Anyone tried the DLC for Civilization 6? Is this game finally playable yet?

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Xanthir » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:42 am UTC

If you disliked Civ 6, the update won't change anything. But I really liked everything the update did.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:06 am UTC

I like StarCraft and all... but... managing all my li'l bugs/Zergs, my base AND expanding my territories with patrolling soldiers? No. No way. I can barely keep up with upgrading my main hive, spawning new and creative Zergs... I just get to Hydralisks stages of development and it seems like my enemies have no troubles beating me with regular Terran marines or whatever. I just... can only play one character at a time? Like in an MMORPG. One pretty, nice, prettily femme avatar for me, not what seems like: Hundreds of tiny little bugs all clamoring for my attentions, which are fragmented and split as it is. Nice try Blizzard yet no chocolate bars for you guys and girls?
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby New User » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:34 pm UTC

Yeah, I was never into the real time part of real time strategy. It adds a layer of multitasking that, in my opinion, reduces the strategy part. I can handle real time strategy games if they have the pause-and-queue-commands interface.

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Ginger » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:12 pm UTC

That's why I like JRPG strategy games. Because at least with a pretty boy named Beowulf or whatever riding a chocobo, you can pause him when it's his turn, choose his actions and then he takes his turn, the female knight lady takes her turn and the enemies take their turns. All nicely and orderly. And the chocobo even gets a turn if it's a regular character, which is very... awesomely cute like.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Yablo » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:39 pm UTC

New User wrote:Yeah, I was never into the real time part of real time strategy. It adds a layer of multitasking that, in my opinion, reduces the strategy part. I can handle real time strategy games if they have the pause-and-queue-commands interface.

Same here. The only real value I see in real time strategy is that it forces the player to think quickly and recognize certain basic and complex situations.

Many years ago, a friend and I would play chess all the time, but our games would take forever. We would take five minutes or more analyzing every possible move before eventually going with our first instinct anyway. One day, we got a chess clock and we played dozens of fast, timed games. After a week or so of that, we played without the clock, and our regular games were so much faster.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Sableagle » Thu May 03, 2018 5:52 pm UTC

I'm not sure this spider's big enough.

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu May 03, 2018 5:57 pm UTC

That must be from the Australia MMO
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Sizik » Fri May 04, 2018 4:06 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:That must be from the Australia MMO

Pretty close, it's actually the New Zealand MMO.
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Xeio » Sat May 12, 2018 6:16 am UTC

Finally played/finished Breath of the Wild... seemed very overrated to me.

There's a great game there, it's just buried under so many tedious and unpleasant mechanics.

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Xanthir » Tue May 15, 2018 8:44 pm UTC

First, I respect your opinion, because we all experience games differently and have different opinions about them, and that's all valid.

Second, I'LL FITE U
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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby SuicideJunkie » Wed May 16, 2018 3:19 pm UTC

Ginger wrote:I like StarCraft and all... but... managing all my li'l bugs/Zergs, my base AND expanding my territories with patrolling soldiers? No. No way. I can barely keep up with upgrading my main hive, spawning new and creative Zergs... I just get to Hydralisks stages of development and it seems like my enemies have no troubles beating me with regular Terran marines or whatever. I just... can only play one character at a time? Like in an MMORPG. One pretty, nice, prettily femme avatar for me, not what seems like: Hundreds of tiny little bugs all clamoring for my attentions, which are fragmented and split as it is. Nice try Blizzard yet no chocolate bars for you guys and girls?

You might like to try the custom maps I made:
Small Squad Tactical Maps
They're really just the regular maps, but the mineral piles are dramatically reduced, and the custom settings make it so your excess Vespene gas will slowly trade into more minerals when you are low.
Territory matters a lot, since even a depleted geyser is pretty valuable.
Keeping your peeps alive and repair/healing is important.
And seeing a single battlecruiser is very scary in those games.

(note: the first file there, "(7)The dying of the light.zip" is the opposite; you and any of your friends start with a million minerals, and then the tap of zerglings gets turned on and you see how many you can fend off before the screen completely fills with purple.)

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby New User » Thu May 24, 2018 12:50 pm UTC

More than once, I have taken a poll or survey that asks what my favorite genre of game is, and "puzzle" is not a choice.

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Re: Gaming fleeting thoughts

Postby Sableagle » Fri May 25, 2018 3:42 pm UTC

fgfs-screen-001.png


FlightGear 2018.1's Hurricane with no joystick and insufficient idea how to use the mouse as a yoke handles quite a lot like Acorn Aviator used to. I think it makes takeoffs and landings even harder, though.

The Lancaster's surprisingly pleasant to fly. The Cessna's ..... slow? Underpowered? A minibus with a motorcycle engine? Something like that, by comparison.

The scenery's a big improvement from Aviator.

Image

Big improvement.
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