Pandemic Legacy

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Zohar
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:23 pm UTC

That's pretty hardcore! We always scratched anything we didn't get :)
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rmsgrey
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:58 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:So early August will be our fourth 0-Funding game, with the two April games still our only losses (putting us at 6-2 so far). And yes, I know what's coming, but we need to get there first, and I'm letting other people (who don't know) make most of the long-term decisions rather than trying to steer them.


August went very like July:

Spoiler:
We took the July Win Bonus in the form of a permanent military base in City Zero - one of two rioting Faded cities and I started with City Zero in hand, so played the Soldier, turned it into an equipment and completed the search in two rounds. The rest of the team was the same as July, though the Colonel's upgrades meant that when he spent much of the game running around Faded territory, he left a wake of "treated" Faded. We managed to eradicate Yellow during the game, so it's now been upgraded to level 2 positive mutations, and we've also given the Soldier Flexible to improve his ability to fish specific cards out of the discard pile and/or feed specific cards to his Rival.

It was only after the game that we realised we could have used Self-Sacrifice to keep COdA from spreading and save three outbreaks...

In addition to all of Black being Faded, we've lost Europe (after July, London was the only non-Faded blue city east of the Atlantic) and Jakarta has become our first red Faded city, leaving Yellow as the only entirely un-Faded colour, and giving us four out of seven military bases in Faded cities.


Next game, in about ten days' time, will be September, again with 0 Funding, so possibly again going to the wire - or maybe even going wrong.

Current "wouldn't it be nice" thoughts for long-term plans:

Spoiler:
Eradicate red and actually upgrade it. Possibly place some roadblocks in the Atlantic to stop COdA's westward spread. The Fade of Jakarta means the East is open, but it's still only 9 roadblocks to contain COdA completely, 5 of them around a pair of Military Bases, so COdA could be walled in in the East on turn 1. None of the currently available character upgrades jump out as vital, unfunded events are interesting but not essential, the Virologist has some interesting abilities, but the reliance on drawing the right cards makes her less useful at containing Faded than the Colonel (though she can at least work on cures), we've got a good network of structures, and I still feel it's better to spend actions creating the Equipment you need than have it come out of the deck halfway through the game... Rounding out our Positive Mutations is definitely the current priority for upgrades.


Additional thoughts based on spoilery knowledge:

Spoiler:
The Paranoid Soldier should be fairly easy to find - we have Binoculars available to make, and the Soldier to abuse them. The Colonel's due to die, but the only argument for not playing him at this point would be if we started with a pretty much Faded-free setup. The Soldier is probably going to end up blowing stuff up, and we may want Ops back in October to replace the Military network with Research Stations and Vaccine Factories. With Faded across 4 out of 6 regions, there are only 2 Military Bases left that aren't getting in the way of vaccination, so with the potential to survive and mess with our final score. Vaccination is going to be interesting too - with the Soldier surviving, sending him out with an Aerosol and a pocket full of vaccine tokens seems like a strong plan...

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Zohar
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:49 pm UTC

Wow, that doesn't sound like a fun situation at all. Good luck!
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:30 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Wow, that doesn't sound like a fun situation at all. Good luck!


I still consider the 0-funding minimum to be one of the bigger design mis-steps in Pandemic Legacy - I've got more use out of previous months' Mission Briefing cards than I have out of the Funded Event cards...

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:32 pm UTC

I was actually talking about the spread of CODA.

I thought it was a pretty good mechanic - funded events make things easier when they pop up, but an even bigger advantage of them is they increase the average time between epidemics, which really makes the game that much easier.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:07 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I was actually talking about the spread of CODA.

I thought it was a pretty good mechanic - funded events make things easier when they pop up, but an even bigger advantage of them is they increase the average time between epidemics, which really makes the game that much easier.


Yeah, variable funding is good - it's just the floor being "you never get to use these cards" that's the problem.

The spread of COdA doesn't feel too bad - 7 non-COdA Faded so far, and blue being much, much easier to eradicate as a result of losing half its cities...

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:22 pm UTC

Fair enough. I think our game was a bit luckier maybe - we only had one none-CODA-color city turn into one, and we didn't have any fallen cities at all.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:31 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Fair enough. I think our game was a bit luckier maybe - we only had one none-CODA-color city turn into one, and we didn't have any fallen cities at all.


We only have a scattering of level 3s and nothing worse - we'll have to wait and see how the last third goes.

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby firechicago » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:19 pm UTC

Ran into a strange and interesting edge case playing April last night (no spoilers for anything that you don't learn when you open the game box):

If you end the game by curing a disease, and the only cubes for that disease are in the same city as the Medic (and therefore would be immediately removed when the disease is cured), does the disease count as being eradicated for purposes of upgrading?

In the end we decided that it did count as being eradicated, but I'm curious what other people think.

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:41 pm UTC

I would go with yes.

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:51 pm UTC

I would say yes as well, but I don't know for sure. It depends on the description of what happens when you find a cure and when you complete objectives.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby firechicago » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:15 pm UTC

On further research, it looks like the designer of the game agrees: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1494163/medic-and-erradication-endgame-no-spoilers

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:27 pm UTC

Another thing that's not entirely clear from the rules:

The Outbreak rules mention an explicit exception for "isolated cities" that don't affect any other cities when they Outbreak - they still increase panic level, scar any characters present, etc, but they don't count toward the 8 Outbreaks for a loss.

There are a number of things that could prevent a city from being affected by an outbreak in a neighbouring city (such as having the Medic there and the outbreaking disease having been cured already), but only things which explicitly say they prevent increasing the Outbreak marker actually count for this rule.

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:30 pm UTC

Are you sure about not increasing the outbreak tracker? I was sure it does count.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:10 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Are you sure about not increasing the outbreak tracker? I was sure it does count.


If a city is isolated, then outbreaks there increase Panic in the city, but don't advance the outbreak marker. From a relevant rules sticker: "If a city is completely [isolated this way], do not mark an outbreak on the outbreak track when it outbreaks since none of the adjacent cities are affected. Make sure to increase the Panic Level, however."

This only applies to cities isolated by this mechanic and any others with similar wording, not to, for example, cities which are prevented from affecting any neighbouring cities except one by this mechanic, and prevented from affecting the remaining one by the Medic being there (or some other effect that doesn't count for isolation).

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:06 pm UTC

Well presumably if the medic is there, the cubes would be spread to that city, and then immediately cured. But the disease did spread.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:55 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Well presumably if the medic is there, the cubes would be spread to that city, and then immediately cured. But the disease did spread.


No - if the Medic's there, cubes of a cured disease aren't even placed (this matters particularly if you're running low on cubes of that disease).

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Zohar » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:03 pm UTC

Ah, you are correct! The medic prevents placing of cubes in a city they're in if the disease is cured, according to the rules. My bad!
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby Xanthir » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:12 am UTC

It specifically says "isolated in this manner", referring to the [REDACTED] that it's talking about. That's the only thing that matters for the purpose of isolation - the city has to be completely surrounded by [REDACTED]. Nothing else isolates a city.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:37 pm UTC

Xanthir wrote:It specifically says "isolated in this manner", referring to the [REDACTED] that it's talking about. That's the only thing that matters for the purpose of isolation - the city has to be completely surrounded by [REDACTED]. Nothing else isolates a city.

The confusion comes from the rules on page 13:

In later games, it is possible for cities to become isolated so that outbreaks in it do not affect any adjacent cities. In this case, increase the panic level of the outbreaking city but do not raise the Outbreaks Track marker.


Matt Leacock has clarified that "outbreaks do not affect any adjacent cities" is a consequence of being isolated (by [REDACTED]) not a definition. In particular, [REDACTED] does not isolate a city.

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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby 3fj » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:26 am UTC

Just finished September.
Spoiler:
WHAT!?
I guessed something was screwy when the virologist mentioned that your meds are placebos, but thought we were headed for a whole different kind of twist. Opening up the emails and getting the new objective on a different kind of paper is possibly the coolest moment I've had in gaming opposite Risk Legacy's "DO NOT OPEN EVER". It claimed the General, and there's a card with a nuke that we've refused to use as a nuke now we've seen the zodiac letters. I guess it's disarmed.

CODA has fucked all of Africa and South America; Africa is now isolated into individual cities thanks to a few lost games to do with chain outbreaks there. It spread to Madrid and the southern US as well.

We've burned down 3 of our perm military bases. I fear the eventual reprisals.


I thought people were being hyperbolic when they said it was the best game they'd played. To catch someone by surprise who's expecting it at every turn is a hell of an achievement. Just so well designed.

We switched up to 4 characters and the challenge spiked as we got used to waiting for powers and dropped again when we built up a couple more "power couples" and played with some new roles. Honestly I think the lack of powers balances out with the frequency those powers are used.
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Re: Pandemic Legacy

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:43 pm UTC

3fj wrote:We switched up to 4 characters and the challenge spiked as we got used to waiting for powers and dropped again when we built up a couple more "power couples" and played with some new roles. Honestly I think the lack of powers balances out with the frequency those powers are used.


Yeah, it's generally accepted that vanilla Pandemic, Forbidden Island and Forbidden Desert are easier with fewer players - anything that takes a player more than one turn to achieve takes longer when you need to wait for more players between your turns, and it's not much use being in the perfect location to respond to something when it's another 3-4 turns before you get to act. Also, with the card-melding of Pandemic and Forbidden Island, having fewer hands means less need to trade cards between players to build the sets; with Forbidden Desert, it's the excavation of water tiles that drives an increased need for co-ordination - either way, fewer players means fewer actions spent moving people around to meet up.

With Pandemic Legacy, things are less clear - when you need to complete 3 objectives, there's an advantage to having characters with abilities that help with each of the objectives rather than having every character be moderate at each objective, though that depends on how readily a given objective can be assigned to a specialist character rather than needing everyone to chip in. Even so, anecdotal evidence suggests that fewer players is probably easier.


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