Overwatch

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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:33 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
DaBigCheez wrote:To me, that's seemed like a fairly standard early-MMR thing. It's always settled down at ~50% of games won, but in the initial "learning" phases, the pendulum swings hard and then has to overcorrect while it's trying to settle down to your final MMR. After about two such oscillations (too easy --> too hard --> too easy --> too hard), it has generally calmed down and given more balanced games, though as with anything pseudo-random there's still occasional salt/tilt-inducing streaks.

I would think that, but I'm over 200 games in and the matchmaking just seems to be getting worse. The matches used to be closer, but now they're becoming more one-sided even when I get the rare win.


I think as I've played more, the winning teams have begun to feel a lot stronger, but I'm not sure if they actually are. I had a KOTH game where we absolutely shit on the opponents during the first point, but then they adapted their build and absolutely crushed us in a way that felt extremely one-sided.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:56 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
DaBigCheez wrote:It's a "Lifesaver" POTG. If you watch, about when Bastion opens fire on the Roadhog, he's just hooked a Genji - and the Roadhog dies just before he's able to shoot the Genji in the face. You don't see a lot of Lifesaver POTGs, but that one may have counted as it was on the payload right before a checkpoint, which gives another boost (and, presumably, there weren't any super-huge plays in the rest of the game).

Most POTGs are just from generally doing a lot of damage/getting a lot of kills, especially on a point, but there's also Shutdown (kill an enemy who's about to deal a ton of damage with their ult - a Pharah who's just pressed Q, a McCree locking on, etc.), Lifesaver (for saving an ally from essentially certain death - stunning a charging Reinhardt who has them pinned, killing a Roadhog who has them hooked, etc.), and Sharpshooter (for exceptional long-ranged damage and accuracy) that can cause POTGs without that.

I've also seen a Merci POTG for resurrecting three people at once. I guess that falls under Lifesaver?

The POTG doesn't always make sense though. I've seen a few really underwhelming ones. Or ones based more on luck then skill. I got one as pharah when I was blindly spamming rockets into an alley knowing the enemy was likely to show up there, and got a triple-kill. Fun times :)

Nah, Mercy mass-rez POTG are just under the normal bracket. Maybe it's "caused a big swing in effective health total between teams" that justifies it, or such.

And yeah, it's all based on metrics that are easy for a computer to track - "that was a very skillful play" is not particularly easy to track. So, especially when there's no "wiped the entire enemy team with an ult two inches from the final point" play for it to highlight, sometimes you'll just get a Soldier:76 missing half his shots as he empties his gun into a few stationary targets, and winds up with two and a half kills; the game just sees "oh, there was a fight on the payload, and this guy did 800 damage over 10 seconds, musta been something impressive going on there!" Same with spamming blindly around a corner; it doesn't know whether it was a ludicrous trick-shot or just blind spam, so it just goes with the numbers, and the rocket spam did a lot of damage in a short time.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:02 pm UTC

It seems to look near ults for kill potgs. I've seen example where an ult kills like 2 players in the same I've gotten tripple kills without ulting, and it's the first part that becomes POTG.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Obby » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:03 pm UTC

The random brawl mode this week is extremely fun. It forces you to play a lot of heroes you normally don't.

I've found that I actually can get pretty good with Tracer and Zarya, two heroes who before this week I had played once and thought they weren't for me. Once I figured out that Tracer is really designed to harass and punish flanks, she got way more fun to play. Use your blink to dart behind enemy lines and come up behind and harass the snipers and healers, and it forces them to turn their attention away from the objective to deal with you. Then just rewind time if you find yourself outnumbered. Usually at least two enemies come chasing after you, but with blink you can already be gone and finding a health pack to heal or another attack vector to continue harassing. And her ult is fantastic for clearing out entrenched points, like on the final point for Temple of Anubis. Blink in, toss your bomb on the nearest turret/Bastion, and rewind out.

I also figured out that I'm terrible with Genji, Widowmaker, and Hanzo. I never really tried them much before, but every time I get stuck with them I can't really get to a good position to take advantage of their abilities.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:49 pm UTC

Ha! Playing that mode has made me realize why no one ever plazy Zarya. Boy is she useless. Utterly without any redeeming qualities.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:00 am UTC

Zarya is actually pretty good, but also quite hard to understand at first.

First, her role: She's an off-tank. If you have two Zaryas, they can collectively assume the role of main tank, but ideally you want a reinhardt or roadhog as main. There also needs to be at least one healer, but two is better (Mercy + Lucio is awesome). If your team is not well composed or lacks cooperation, she simply will not be very good. This is likely why you are struggling with random heroes. The likelihood of a well composed team being randomly picked is rather low.

Once the build is sorted, your main goal is to build charge by absorbing shots with the barrier up on you and your allies. Once charge is 100%, you have one of the highest DPS:es in the game. You will melt anything that crosses you at an absurd pace. You also need to make good use of the fact that half of her hitpoint pool is shields, and regenerates when not taking hits. So you typically cycle between engaging and disengaging with Zarya.

Using barriers properly requires quite a lot of situational awareness, but it's not that tricky to figure out.

Once you have all this down, she's a pretty solid pick.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:47 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Zarya is actually pretty good, but also quite hard to understand at first.

First, her role: She's an off-tank. If you have two Zaryas, they can collectively assume the role of main tank, but ideally you want a reinhardt or roadhog as main. There also needs to be at least one healer, but two is better (Mercy + Lucio is awesome). If your team is not well composed or lacks cooperation, she simply will not be very good. This is likely why you are struggling with random heroes. The likelihood of a well composed team being randomly picked is rather low.

Once the build is sorted, your main goal is to build charge by absorbing shots with the barrier up on you and your allies. Once charge is 100%, you have one of the highest DPS:es in the game. You will melt anything that crosses you at an absurd pace. You also need to make good use of the fact that half of her hitpoint pool is shields, and regenerates when not taking hits. So you typically cycle between engaging and disengaging with Zarya.

Using barriers properly requires quite a lot of situational awareness, but it's not that tricky to figure out.

Once you have all this down, she's a pretty solid pick.

Yeah, it's really important to get those shields absorbing damage so you can be charged up. And also, people are still pretty bad at countering Zarya effectively. It's just pity she really shines when being supported, which almost never happens.

Her ult is also amazingly good on the combo, but from what I've seen, people can't seem to figure out shoot the group of stationary targets.

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Re: Overwatch

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:55 am UTC

That, and once people start to grasp the advanced tactic of "shoot the ulting Pharah/McCree/Reaper/etc. in the head before they can do much damage", a Zarya shield suddenly going up around them can get stuff done. Same for if a Roadhog's getting overly smug about his ability to hook people out of ults.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:38 am UTC

Makes sense that Zarya would be a lot better in a coordinated team. She seems to be the kind that benefits a lot from that.


And yeah, the part about ults makes sense. I notice that myself I'm quickly getting better at countering ults. You get a kind of sense for when someone is about to ult. Plus you recognize the sound effects.

When I'm playing bastion, justice is definitely not raining from above, and there's only one "die" and that's reaper himself.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:47 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Makes sense that Zarya would be a lot better in a coordinated team. She seems to be the kind that benefits a lot from that.


And yeah, the part about ults makes sense. I notice that myself I'm quickly getting better at countering ults. You get a kind of sense for when someone is about to ult. Plus you recognize the sound effects.

When I'm playing bastion, justice is definitely not raining from above, and there's only one "die" and that's reaper himself.


Yeah, the old "Justice rains from AAAAARGGGHHH".

On the topic of Pharah, I think a lot of people are playing her wrong. In very low level games, the whole hovering around like a blimp and shooting rockets everywhere is pretty viable. But that is so easy to shut down and stops working rather quickly. I've found mostly keeping her on the ground, and only using her jetpack gain better positioning, escaping characters she can't 1v1, or occasionally hunting down out-of-position players is far stronger.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:10 pm UTC

Is it just me, or is there a lot of salty butthurt in the PC version of this game? I'd say 1 in maybe 5 games has someone moaning about "Oh me yarm my team is useless", or saying "bg" at the end. One game, me and my team decided to go 6x Soldier 76 for fun, and at the end we get called troll kids.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:42 pm UTC

Doesn't seem any worse than other team based games with small team sizes.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:46 pm UTC

To be fair, you fairly frequently end up in really unfortunate teams that think the game is Quake 3 and do nothing to cooperate or help with the objective.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:30 am UTC

Yeah, I find myself blaming my team pretty often (usually in the privacy of my own head). I'm pretty sure I'm usually right. When I'm the last to pick on a map like Nepal and we have 2 Widows, a Reaper, a McCree and a Hanzo I already know we've probably lost no matter what I pick or how good I play.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Obby » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:22 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:On the topic of Pharah, I think a lot of people are playing her wrong. In very low level games, the whole hovering around like a blimp and shooting rockets everywhere is pretty viable. But that is so easy to shut down and stops working rather quickly. I've found mostly keeping her on the ground, and only using her jetpack gain better positioning, escaping characters she can't 1v1, or occasionally hunting down out-of-position players is far stronger.

I do the floating thing in conjunction with a team push. Very rarely do people look up to look for players, especially when there's a Roadhog, Lucio, and McCree coming right at you. I've gotten pretty good at temporarily blocking escapes as Pharah, her concussion shot is great at herding people.

But yeah, trying to do any of that solo is not going to end well against most teams.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:02 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Yeah, I find myself blaming my team pretty often (usually in the privacy of my own head). I'm pretty sure I'm usually right. When I'm the last to pick on a map like Nepal and we have 2 Widows, a Reaper, a McCree and a Hanzo I already know we've probably lost no matter what I pick or how good I play.

Yeah, I find that a lot. I could have the game of my life and it wouldn't matter. I think what annoys me more is that the other team always seems to switch to counters while my teammates are happy to continue to get themselves stomped without ever a thought to switching to a counter. Or anytime I ever get on the eliminations scoreboard while playing Lucio. Because fuck, there's five of you with better dps, I should not be leading the charge here.

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Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:22 pm UTC

I think the best strategy with a team with a poor choice of picks is simply to pick the character with a really aggressive ultimate, and hope you can get a 4 man kill with it - Hanzo and Reaper come to mind.
It's a slim hope, but a hope nonetheless (unless it's Escort, then you're pretty much screwed).
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:16 pm UTC

Just played the most confusing game ever. Enemy team had Lucio as their only support. I was playing D.Va

First I encounter a reaper who just didn't die despite me firing at him from point blank range for like 10 seconds. His health barely moved in fact. And no he wasn't using wraith form. Then he turned around and one-shot me. What?

Then I killed their Winston, only to encounter him again 2 seconds later. What? They had no Mercy, and only 1 Winston in the team. They had a teleporter, sure, but you don't normally respawn that fast.

Next I get one-shot by a Widowmaker from full health. What the actual fuck?

Weirdest game ever. Only explanation I can think of is that they found some kind of weird hack. I mean i can imagine missing something important in one of those cases. Or maybe I had a lag-spike. It happens. But all three?
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Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:33 am UTC

The worst lag effect I've experienced is when playing Tracer, I blinked forward then seemed to get dragged backwards onto McCree's flashbang. Fairly straightforward and easy to see how that works, but annoying as hell. I had deftly avoided an attack due to skill, reflexes , and timing. The server decided I should die anyway.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:37 am UTC

Yeah. Tracer is easily the character that makes lag and low tickrate the most visible :-/ However, Mei is also slightly susceptible.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:19 pm UTC

I'm not convinced tickrate is the issue. I believe it's somewhere in the order of 20 updates per second? Lower than other games, but still above the human perception threshold. No, it's usually just a case of the client and server disagreeing on what's actually happening, due to a minor but perceptible lag spike.

The vast majority of games I've played, I haven't noticed any lag at all. So I'm not going to complain. I've seen much worse.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:52 pm UTC

Lower than other games, but still above the human perception threshold


What? If a musician is off by 10ms (1/100th of a second), they know. 100-beats-per-second drum routines are normal. Hell, its not unheard of to have 32nd notes or dotted-sixteenth notes in a 100+-beat per second song. (Video was 120 bpm with 32nd notes, or one note played every 1/960th of a second == 1.04ms per note). And of course, the musician is expected to accomplish this while counting time.

Or from a video-game perspective... you've got Smash Bros players who can time the 2-frame punish, which requires accuracy of 2/60th of a second or 3.5 milliseconds to pull off. Shiek's dtilt is 2-frames of active. To use Shiek's DTilt as a punish-option (which is done several times in the tutorial video) vs the 2-frame vulnerability period, your timing needs to be 4 frames (6.66 ms) tight or better.

Street fighter players have the dreaded one-frame link that they have to master: 1/60th of a second accuracy with timing. (1.6 ms timing window).

When trained, Human perception is easily tighter than 10ms. Hell, accomplished musicians seem to have perception tighter than 1ms (1/1000th of a second) Otherwise, it'd be impossible to play different notes of music at the right timing.

Now 20 frames (50ms) may be adequate for a casual game. But with a decent amount of training, players will blow through that. Musicians do it, fighting game players do it, and counterstrike ("serious" FPS players) do it.


Bah, been noted that my math is very, very off. I'm off by a magnitude, but its still proves that humans are faster than 50ms.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:14 pm UTC

You may be right. I was basing that off the general rule of thumb that if a video plays at a rate higher than 15fps, it looks to most people like reasonably fluid motion. Less than that, most people can perceive it as a series of still images. But that's fairly specific, so it may not apply to games.

In other news, I've decided what my new favourite sound ever is. "Justice rai-ARGH!"
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:25 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:You may be right. I was basing that off the general rule of thumb that if a video plays at a rate higher than 15fps, it looks to most people like reasonably fluid motion. Less than that, most people can perceive it as a series of still images. But that's fairly specific, so it may not apply to games.


What low FPS video typically does is have a lot of motion blur to obscure the bad framerate. This video illustrates it quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZkFW6qo4WI (you'll want to watch it at the highest quality)

In other news, I've decided what my new favourite sound ever is. "Justice rai-ARGH!"


I personally like "Ryūjin no ken-ARGH!"
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Re: Overwatch

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:26 pm UTC

Now with that said, the lag of the internet needs to be hidden somehow.

Good netcode is more about tricking players than it is about accuracy. Simple physics makes it impossible to have perfectly synced games across a large distance. The distance from LA and New York is 2,451 miles. At 186,000 miles per second, the speed of light will take 1.3 milliseconds one way. Double it so that the information can come back (two way trip), slow it down because fiber-optics slows down the speed of light by 1/3 or so, add in networking equipment and computers (which adds even more delays), and the delays start adding up to 20ms or more.

So one player's computer will say "I scored a hit", while the other player's computer will say "I dodged that bullet". 20ms is enough to make a difference, and is even large enough that humans hold influence over that speed. (as demonstrated with the music feats I posted earlier).

Add in crappy internet connections (hard for all players to have a solid internet connection), and 50+ms lag will be common.

Which leads to the tick-rate of 20 frames / second. For an internet game, that's not bad. General lag will force the servers to slow down the game and hide latency anyway.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:46 pm UTC

The thing is though I don't think I have high lag. My connection is generally very good, and I don't seem to have problems hitting people in general. It's just that sometimes completely absurd things happen all of a sudden. Other weird stuff that's happened in the meantime: A reaper surviving my widow headshot (he was teleporting right in front of me, so I'm 100% sure I got that headshot). And another reaper shot me while he had his back to me. Just now I got blown up by my own ult as D.Va despite there being a wall in between (with a huge margin). It's just weird.

Sometimes I play and everything is normal, sometimes the weirdest things keep happening. Things that don't seem explainable by lag either.

It just confuses me.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:58 pm UTC

Also can someone tell me why they nerfed two completely fine heroes (widow and mccree) but left genji alone. Genji is so obviously overpowered. I can't think of a single hero he can't kill 1v1.

I think all the other heroes were fine. Widow was strong but not overpowered (Sure she kills a lot, but it's difficult for her to directly help the team). McCree may have been somewhat OP, but there were still good ways to counter him. Genji is just ridiculous. Can get anywhere, can reflect everything back at you, is ridiculously fast and mobile, and has a very strong ult.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:37 pm UTC

McCree dominated 1v1 close quarter fights, against *everyone* - Genji has the advantage if he can reflect the stun, but that's not reliable (even if you have deflect up, you're still doomed if the grenade isn't aimed straight at you).
Now he can't kill Reinhardt and Roadhog with two fan-the-hammers.

Genji really doesn't want to be fighting Winston or Mei - deflect doesn't work against non-projectile weapons, Winston has a ton of health so you can't burst him down and getting caught by Mei's slow is a death sentence if you can't Shift away. Even Roadhog can be a problem - he's a big sack of health and does a lot of damage.

Widowmaker basically removed Zenyatta from the game - a fully charged body shot would kill him (and Tracer, but she's much harder to hit). It may be a slight boost for Pharah too, but she always survived the body shot anyway.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:46 am UTC

Xenomortis wrote:McCree dominated 1v1 close quarter fights, against *everyone* - Genji has the advantage if he can reflect the stun, but that's not reliable (even if you have deflect up, you're still doomed if the grenade isn't aimed straight at you).
Now he can't kill Reinhardt and Roadhog with two fan-the-hammers.

Genji really doesn't want to be fighting Winston or Mei - deflect doesn't work against non-projectile weapons, Winston has a ton of health so you can't burst him down and getting caught by Mei's slow is a death sentence if you can't Shift away. Even Roadhog can be a problem - he's a big sack of health and does a lot of damage.

Widowmaker basically removed Zenyatta from the game - a fully charged body shot would kill him (and Tracer, but she's much harder to hit). It may be a slight boost for Pharah too, but she always survived the body shot anyway.

Yeah, the biggest issue with McCree was the fan spam that was too overpowered. Also, widow, in the rare hands of somebody who knew what they were doing was basically spamming shots. It's not that you couldn't survive a body shot, it's that Widow could get body shots off way too quick.

As for the netcode/tickrate/other issues. I think it's a collusion of all of them together combined with some ridiculously large hitboxes and the preference to the shooter over the defender that really causes some problems. As, for hitboxes, your model can be behind a wall and they can still headshot you if you're close enough to the corner.

As for gengi, he could be good one on one, but mostly the opponents shouldn't be allowing this. And most players suck at him something horrible. Gengi is usually just a roflstomp character if your team is fighting as a group on the objective.

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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:53 am UTC

Xenomortis wrote:Genji really doesn't want to be fighting Winston or Mei - deflect doesn't work against non-projectile weapons, Winston has a ton of health so you can't burst him down and getting caught by Mei's slow is a death sentence if you can't Shift away. Even Roadhog can be a problem - he's a big sack of health and does a lot of damage.


Symmetra is also surprisingly strong against Genji if you play her correctly.

Genji is good at doing his job, that is picking off isolated players and hunting high value targets behind enemy lines. But he's in no way unbeatable. He can deal a lot of damage in a short period of time, but if he's burned his abilities and his target is still alive, he's in a very uncomfortable spot.
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Xenomortis
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:14 am UTC

Another hero where deflect doesn't work.
Genji is good at finding and destroying those teleporters though (although the sentries are a pain).
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DaBigCheez
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Re: Overwatch

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:12 pm UTC

I've found that a Reinhardt can actually be surprisingly helpful against an ulting Genji - not for the shield of course, but the hitbox on his german engineering is wide enough that he can just kind of hold down left-click and all Genji's dashing about won't really help him. Even if it just forces a deflect while he backs off and considers his angle of attack more carefully, that prevents him from having the Katarina effect of a cascading wipe on your team, from the constant dash resets as he chops down hero after hero.

Of course, this does mean Reinhardt's shield isn't up, so the *rest* of their team can probably clean up pretty easy if they're pushing in along with him, but I play at a level where people don't even realize they should get behind the rectangle in the first place, so...

And yeah, what others said about McCree and widow. McCree shuts down squishy flankers hard, and that's as it should be, but he was also a better close-range tankbuster than Reaper while still retaining mid- and even long-range fighting capability. The nerf drastically reduces his ability to burst down tanks, while preserving his role as an anti-flanker and duelist.

As for widow, I think the problems were two-fold. In low-level play, she was pumping out too much damage with relatively poor aim, thanks to the fast charging on her scope giving her extremely high potential DPS; rather than nerfing the charge rate (which would have repercussions for her ability to reactively bring down, say, an ulting Pharah), they moved more of the damage to headshots to encourage careful aim. Meanwhile, in high-level play, she still has the high damage but the nerf to non-headshots won't hit her as hard there; instead, they're hitting her safety and mobility with the unscoping change, so that she has to choose between firing off scoped shots and having fast movement/situational awareness, instead of quick-unscoping between shots and essentially winding up with both. Makes it slightly harder for her to get away from a flanking Winston or the like, and makes her more vulnerable to countersniping.

I do find it interesting that they nerfed her ult gain rate, but pointedly *didn't* make the ult announcement global, which seems to indicate that its stealthy nature is entirely intended. That, along with the unscoping nerf, seems to slightly incentivize Widows to play further in the backlines rather than more midrangey, so that people are less likely to be closeby to hear her activating the ult. I feel like the ult is probably more oppressive in high-level play than low-level, though.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:06 am UTC

Yeah, widow's ult basically requires a team that can capitalize on it. Hanzo on the other hand, I wish they'd re-figure him so people would stop playing him in a way no archer would ever work. He should not be a viable melee character. I'm also getting really sick of getting hit in the foot for insta-kill.

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Diadem
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:50 am UTC

Ok, Ok, I was overstating my case when I said Genji beats every other hero 1 on 1. But I don't think I'm far off. Mei is indeed an exception, and possibly Winston, though nobody ever plays him anyway so who cares (though maybe the meta is changing. I have seen him a few times in recent days). I still maintain that Genji is far more overpowered than McCree ever was. Honestly I think McCree before was kinda balanced before (and I say that while rarely playing him myself. I'm not defending my own pet heroes here). His fan the hammer spam was extremely deadly, true, but also takes skill to use. And McCree has low mobility, making it hard to flank or sneak up on enemies. Plus his ultimate frankly isn't very good (good players will generally either find cover or kill you).

Genji is extremely fast and can climb walls. He may be slightly deadly at close range, but only slightly, and unlike McCree he can actually sneak up on low-hp targets. And his ultimate is one of the best in the game.

Anyway, different subject: Does anyone understand how Roadhog works? I've been trying him lately, and I can't make him work. When I'm playing a low-hp hero, and a roadhog hooks me, I always die instantly to his shotgun blast. But when I play Roadhog myself, and grab someone, my shotgun seems to barely tickle. They escape with like 75% hp left and then proceed to stomp me. I must be doing something wrong but I can't figure out what. I'm pretty sure I do hit them right. My aim is not so bad that I can't hit a stationary target at point-blank range. I tried both normal and alt-fire after hooking people, but neither seems to do much.

I want to play more tanks. I'm quite good with D.Va, but she doesn't really count as a tank imho.
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Xenomortis
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:24 am UTC

At the top level of play, Genji really was not as good as McCree - he would see play on some maps, sometimes (Dragonblade is scary), but his sustained damage output was not as high as McCree (shurikens are much harder to land than bullets). But it was rare to see two Genjis in any one game, whereas three or four McCrees was common.

The nerf was not aimed at casual level play, and only aimed to address McCrees ability to shred tanks - obliterating the likes of Winston and Reinhardt is Reaper's job. All his other strengths were untouched (good mid-range damage, excellent zoning with ultimate).
Don't worry, fan-roll-fan still kills everyone else.

I've not played Roadhog much, but my understanding is that most of the time the hook-shotgun-melee combo should usually instantly kill anyone with less than 200 health - the melee is often unnecessary at lower health levels. There is some variance on weapon damage and it can headshot. 250, and even 300 health targets may drop to the full combo too.
Obviously armour and shields can make a big difference.
(But they proceed to stomp you? Who's *stomping* Roadhog? You're not trying to hook Zarya are you?)
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Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:57 am UTC

Nobody plays Winston? I sure as hell do. I often start games as Bastion, just to provoke the enemy team into switching to Genji. Then out comes Winston for some Genji-murdering fun times. Last game I did this, I managed to get three of the opposing side to switch to Genji. My angry gorilla made very short work of them.
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Diadem
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:25 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Nobody plays Winston? I sure as hell do. I often start games as Bastion, just to provoke the enemy team into switching to Genji. Then out comes Winston for some Genji-murdering fun times. Last game I did this, I managed to get three of the opposing side to switch to Genji. My angry gorilla made very short work of them.

Guess you're nobody :)

But in seriousness, I do see Winston slightly more often than I used to, but he's still one of the least played tanks. D.Va, Reinhardt and Roadhog are all far more popular. Not sure about Zarya.

And yeah, switching heroes is at the right moment can be fun. You like switching away from Bastion, I like switching to him. You can melt an entire team in seconds if they are unsuspecting and have the wrong heroes.
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Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:06 pm UTC

Zarya is one of my most played characters. She is weird because she absolutely requires well composed team to do her job. Most other tanks can get something done even with a poor team composition, but Zarya is often virtually useless.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Jahoclave
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Jun 20, 2016 5:11 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:
I've not played Roadhog much, but my understanding is that most of the time the hook-shotgun-melee combo should usually instantly kill anyone with less than 200 health - the melee is often unnecessary at lower health levels. There is some variance on weapon damage and it can headshot. 250, and even 300 health targets may drop to the full combo too.
Obviously armour and shields can make a big difference.
(But they proceed to stomp you? Who's *stomping* Roadhog? You're not trying to hook Zarya are you?)

Also, stepping forward into them before blasting their face helps. Also the melee.

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Deva
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Re: Overwatch

Postby Deva » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:08 pm UTC

Lacks interest in playing. Appreciates Overwatch for fan art, though. Produced a lot quickly. Personal favorite:
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Changes its form depending on the observer.


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