Overwatch

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:09 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Lacks interest in playing. Appreciates Overwatch for fan art, though. Produced a lot quickly. Personal favorite:


And don't feel bad about it. The Touhou and Kantai Collection communities are even worse from this regard. The vast, vast majority of the Touhou fanbase have never played the game. (Believe me. I ask every time I go to a Con and all the cosplayers have never played a single game of the series).

I'm actually appreciating the fact that Blizzard is open to the fanbase using their characters and opening the artist community. Blizzard released the models for free IIRC, which means any 3d animator can have the official mesh and work with it. This level of community outreach is very rare: basically only Valve used to do it (TF2 artwork assets being released. Similarly, most of the official Overwatch meshes and textures have been released for the fanbase to use and abuse to their liking)
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama

Re: Overwatch

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:07 am UTC

Diadem wrote:Yeah, I find myself blaming my team pretty often (usually in the privacy of my own head). I'm pretty sure I'm usually right.
No...you know about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

That said, I'm not sure Overwatch has a matchmaking rating system other than just *random*, but then there's about an equal chance of you ending up against or with a pro gamer as well
Am I gregnant
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
rath358 wrote:manually adding a long list of swear words to my dictionary worked.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Koa » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:05 am UTC

There are times when your team will be more at fault than you, but it will always be unhealthy to think about that. I can very much understand if someone is practicing to be a better player and their teammates are essentially ruining their practice. Those emotions should be directed at their inability to solve them (not being in a team, poor matchmaking, or something about the community) rather than other players' skill though. It's not anyone's fault for sucking, really. Deliberate stuff is another matter.

When it comes to casual play? Especially low level, I don't think anyone should ever be blaming a teammate. As long as you and your team are making basic mistakes, it's pointless to measure the gravity of the mistakes against one another. Like, a Roadhog hooking in a D.Va's self destruct. A very simple mistake to make, but can have very grave consequences to the whole team. Another player might make many more very similar sort of mistakes, yet it only results in their own stupid death.

What does that other player think? That they lost because of what the Roadhog did, of course. That they're the better player, and the only thing that held them back was the team, because (as is might be true) all of the other players made worse mistakes.

Basically, the intricate rules of the game punishes some mistakes more than others, and your mistakes were punished less, therefore you're better. Yay? Of course it's not that simple but hopefully the point is clear. I think if you're a perfect player, then you might have a legitimate reason to be upset. Dunning Kruger fits in where how perfect someone thinks they are.

It's a sort of blurring of the truth from my perspective. An immediately appealing way to fake your way to feeling like you're playing well or whatever it is that one is after. It doesn't work, but some people swear by it. It ends up holding them back from improving at some point, because the same blurriness blinds them to the critical problems in their play. It depends on how much they're into self manipulating I guess. My mind always goes to the most extreme cases.

Deva wrote:Lacks interest in playing. Appreciates Overwatch for fan art, though. Produced a lot quickly.

Fuckn fuck

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama

Re: Overwatch

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:02 am UTC

Koa wrote:I think if you're a perfect player, then you might have a legitimate reason to be upset.
And the top-most, virtually perfect players aren't even upset 99% of the time. Like, to reach that level you have to be so enamoured with the game that you never hate losing, however rarely you do lose. It would mostly be things from outside the game, like say, connection issues, some kind of impediment like a wrist injury, etc.
Am I gregnant
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
rath358 wrote:manually adding a long list of swear words to my dictionary worked.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:02 am UTC

Weeks wrote:
Diadem wrote:Yeah, I find myself blaming my team pretty often (usually in the privacy of my own head). I'm pretty sure I'm usually right.
No...you know about the Dunning-Kruger effect?

That said, I'm not sure Overwatch has a matchmaking rating system other than just *random*, but then there's about an equal chance of you ending up against or with a pro gamer as well

About 1/6 times I will be the best player in my team. I am too lazy to do the math, but it should happen fairly often that the team contains 2-3 people much worse than me. So I don't think it's weird at all to say that it happens a lot that my team is to blame for my loss. Many people also do not play for their team. They may be good players, but they can still cause losses.

That has nothing to do with the Dunning-Kruger effect. I know I'm not a very good player. But I play with other not-very-good players either.

And fairly evaluating your own performance compared to the other players is important if you want to improve. So yeah, mentally trying to assign blame when a match is lost is a healthy activity.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Jesse
Vocal Terrorist
Posts: 8635
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Basingstoke, England.
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jesse » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:30 am UTC

From when I used to compete in team-based games (Halo 2/Dota, at a national/regional level respectively), I inevitably found it much better to focus less on "Was there something my teammates could have done better?" and much more on "Was there something I could have done better?" Figuring out if you lost because of your teammates doesn't help you improve, it just validates the feeling of "I'm a good player". It is rare, even in games with people much lower in skill than you, that you did everything possible to ensure victory.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:17 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:From when I used to compete in team-based games (Halo 2/Dota, at a national/regional level respectively), I inevitably found it much better to focus less on "Was there something my teammates could have done better?" and much more on "Was there something I could have done better?" Figuring out if you lost because of your teammates doesn't help you improve, it just validates the feeling of "I'm a good player". It is rare, even in games with people much lower in skill than you, that you did everything possible to ensure victory.


100% agreed.

Part of getting better at these team-based games is joining a clan btw. Having others who can discuss whether or not you're actually contributing to a fight is important. Especially in these tactical games where K/D ratio aren't the end-all be-all of performance.

Playing in PUGs while trying to be "serious" is contradictory. Playing with the same team ensures a level of consistency. Knowing your teammates on a personal level and their abilities, allows you to set expectations for yourself.

I mean, PUGs are great when you're learning the game, or playing casually and just want to have fun. But if you're trying to "get gud", you have to start controlling these variables. And thus, clans will inevitably rise and shape the meta.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:28 am UTC

Very interesting post from a blizzard developer about matchmaking.

I knew a lot of this, but there's also a lot I didn't know. I never considered that they also match based on pings for example.

I think I complained a few posts ago about having 'weird' matching where stuff kept happening that just doesn't make any sense. Getting shot by people who aren't even looking in my direction, stuff like that.

One of the things I only now realise is that the time where these kind of weird started happening more often to me is the same time I started playing mostly team games. With people from many different countries.

The matchmaking system apparently tries to match you with people with similar pings, which improves the game experience. But this obviously doesn't work for team games. And the problem may not be so much having lag myself, but difference in lag between players in the game. Even if my connection is very slow, if other players are lagging badly, it will still mean there will be situations where on my screen I'm behind a wall and on their screen I'm not. And Overwatch unlike most games uses a system where the shooter's point of view is preferred. So other people's lag can affect me.

Now that I think about it from this point of view it explains a lot. Not only the 'he killed me without even looking at me' or the 'there was noone there when I looked' kind of stuff, but also say a situation where I'm ulting on soldier at someone, and their health barely moves, until they dodge behind an icewall. I didn't die in this case, so I didn't get to see a killcam, but I'm guessing they in fact put up that icewall near instantly from their point of view. And if I'm shooting a teleporting reaper, then if that reaper badly lags he may in fact already have finished teleporting and started moving away by the time I shoot him on my screen.

I'm not sure what to think of this. I understand the design decisions, and it does lead to an amazingly smooth playing experience. But it's just so damn frustrating when this kind of things happens.

I'm hoping it will be a lot better in competitive play.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:18 am UTC


Yeah, I still wish they'd address whether it's averaging mmr as a whole team or trying to group similar players. And quite frankly, I'm still not keen on his "stomp" rhetoric as I think he's rather glossing that it's still a significant problem with the matchmaking that so many matches go that way, or that a hero switch turns it into that. Because one of my biggest frustrations is that my teammates won't switch characters to counters or to stop being countered. And I'd really like to stop being matched with people who don't switch. I'd also like to stop getting 3-4 gold medals every game. It just makes me feel like the matchmaking isn't working when I'm constantly getting gold and silver (I'm honestly not that good at twitch shooting to merit this. Rarely in other games am I topping score sheets like this). Not that objective kills and time is all that hard to get when people don't seem to understand objectives are a thing.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Koa » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:52 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:I still wish they'd address whether it's averaging mmr as a whole team or trying to group similar players.

It's largely the same system for Heroes and Starcraft, so the answer is both. Average MMR as a whole team is the goal, but it tries to keep people in a similar skill range. Then there's a confidence value to MMR. If the system is less confident that your MMR is accurate, then you're matched more erratically (or you're matched with other people who have been matched erratically due to their confidence being low). That confidence value is going to take a lot of data/games to build for a 6v6 game. It can maybe get up to 90% after 250 games, as a half-educated guess. It's not terribly important for confidence to be high, but it is still a factor in explaining the system.

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 7997
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: Overwatch

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:01 pm UTC

I hate snipers. I really really hate them. The good ones always seem to end up on the enemy team, and just stand there insta-killing anyone who comes into view, no matter how you're moving, how much you're jumping or flying around, they always get the headshot. And then you see in the kill-cam their aim wasn't even on you, you only died because the hit-boxes are ridiculous.

Trouble is, if a sniper is good enough (and a lot of them are), they don't really have any counter. The only counter for Widowmaker is another, better Widowmaker. That's deeply unsatisfying.
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

User avatar
Jesse
Vocal Terrorist
Posts: 8635
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Basingstoke, England.
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jesse » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:54 pm UTC

Isn't Tracer specifically designed as a counter? With her ability to move quickly behind enemy lines and pick off isolated targets like Widowmaker?

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Koa » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:50 pm UTC

Tracer, Genji, Reaper all counter her pretty well, but I guess a skill disparity large enough can allow her to overcome it and dominate a game unlike any other hero. I could see it as a smurf's top pick.

User avatar
DaBigCheez
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:03 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:44 pm UTC

Tracer's lack of vertical mobility can give her a rough time pursuing if the Widow quickly grapples away to an adjoining roof or something, but can kill her quite quickly if she gets the drop (and if the Widow's spending 2/3 of her time checking her back to make sure a Tracer's not about to jump her, that's half the job of countering her done before you start).

I generally prefer Winston, though. Jump in at her (twisting in midair to show her your butt, so you don't get headshot coming in), fry her a bit, she grapples away, you put up your shield, jump after her after a couple seconds. If she just books it, she might be able to get away, but about the best she can usually hope for is "survive but be forced out of position". It may be that at pro-tier she can do enough damage to just win the brawl outright, but Winston's combination of mobility and durability work pretty well, and his low DPS isn't a huge liability against Widow.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

User avatar
You, sir, name?
Posts: 6966
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC
Location: Chako Paul City
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:14 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Tracer's lack of vertical mobility can give her a rough time pursuing if the Widow quickly grapples away to an adjoining roof or something, but can kill her quite quickly if she gets the drop (and if the Widow's spending 2/3 of her time checking her back to make sure a Tracer's not about to jump her, that's half the job of countering her done before you start).


Tracer can blink across space though, if you just chain the ability. It's only if widow goes straight up tracer can't follow. However, tracer doesn't necessarily need to kill her to do her job. Just being a nuisance is usually plenty to keep widow from threatening your team.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

User avatar
DaBigCheez
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:03 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:40 pm UTC

Yeah, I meant when widow's, for example, in a hallway/skybridge with a window overlooking the point, sees an attacker coming in, and grapples *up* and across to an adjoining roof. Tracer can pursue just fine if she just leaps a horizontal gap.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:53 am UTC

So, competitive mode is finally here!

I've played three games now, and it's fun. I didn't really notice a huge difference in how serious people are playing, but I guess 3 games is too small a sample size for that. I did notice that games are * a lot * longer. One game on Volskaya went on for 4 full rounds, taking 6-7 min each, plus downtime. Easily over half an hour. Not a problem, but definitely something to keep in mind.

What surprised me is that they did another huge widow nerf. Was she really still OP?
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:05 am UTC

The only mention I see is the change to her ultimate so the audio cue is heard globally.
I think that's fair - other ultimates have that too. That wallhack shuts down Genji/Tracer play pretty hard.

But that's not where Widowmaker's power comes from.
Image

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:02 pm UTC

That's a pretty big nerf isn't it? It significantly reduces the effectiveness of Widowmaker's ultimate. And her ult was one of the best in the game and one of the big reasons why Widow was good.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1386
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:17 pm UTC

I think you could remove Widowmaker's ultimate and you'd still see her played at the top level.
And no, I don't think this is a crippling nerf to the ultimate. I think it's reasonable to tell the other team that you have wallhacks enabled.
Image

User avatar
You, sir, name?
Posts: 6966
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC
Location: Chako Paul City
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:39 pm UTC

I've done five placement matches. I like it. Team compositions have for the most part been relatively sane!
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:30 pm UTC

I noticed a minor bug. If someone leaves during game, that game is aborted, but it still counts for statistics. It says I won 4/9 games. But I only played 7. Kinda sad to see my statistics lowered like that.

*edit* 4/8 now. My placement matches are a bit boring. Win, loss, win, loss, win, loss, win, loss. 1 of the losses was close, but all the other games were completely one-sided stompings. I know it doesn't work like that, but it really feels like the game is forcing a 50% winrate on my by matching me alternately with absolute beginners and godlike pros.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Obby
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Overwatch

Postby Obby » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:16 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I noticed a minor bug. If someone leaves during game, that game is aborted, but it still counts for statistics. It says I won 4/9 games. But I only played 7. Kinda sad to see my statistics lowered like that.

*edit* 4/8 now. My placement matches are a bit boring. Win, loss, win, loss, win, loss, win, loss. 1 of the losses was close, but all the other games were completely one-sided stompings. I know it doesn't work like that, but it really feels like the game is forcing a 50% winrate on my by matching me alternately with absolute beginners and godlike pros.


Yeah it's still swinging that way for me too. Though I have noticed since ranked came out I've pretty much been only match with people that are level 50 or higher, with me being the only person under level 30 in most games.
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:03 pm UTC

I'd say once I got through the placement matches it settled down to less stompy and closer games. I also think it does a far better job of matching people of the same quality together than quickplay does. I'm not always topping the team and getting gold medals every freaking game.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:57 am UTC

I've got 13 ranked games under my belt now, and the last few ones have been much closer. Especially the last one was very close. So yeah, hopefully that's a trend that'll continue.

I lost a game because of deliberate sabotage by one of my teammates. Or maybe sheer idiocy, not sure which. They were bastion and spent the entire game in turret mode at the 2nd control point, while the game would be over if we lost on the first. That sucked.

[edit]
Ok I take back everything good I ever said about matchmaking in this game. Just got 4 losses in a row. First two were relatively straightforward losses, although we were favored in the first matchup while they were clearly much, much better (I've watched a few pro-games and these were near that). But the third game I got matched with someone who deliberately sabotaged us, and then the 4th game I got matched with the same fucking player again, who again sabotaged us. I reported him of course, but I'm not sure how useful that is. If something like 20% of competitive games is going to contain people who deliberately sabotage your team, the fun is going to wear of real quickly. God I'm pissed off right now.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:50 pm UTC

I also would take back my previous praises. Every single game today has been a stomp one way or the other. And, it's back to me being the highest ranked person on the team, with most people on both sides being below me by a few ranks. So, if I win barely goes up, but I lose a shit ton of rank if I lose. So it'll just drop me into worse and worse teammates which is what makes me really start to hate the game when everything for me just becomes junkrat carry.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:26 am UTC

This is just getting annoying. I went 40 eliminations my last game, I was owning everybody the entire time, and lost nearly a full level of rating.

The obvious problem with the matchmaking is that the lower your rating, the worse your teammates, and so you won't start winning more. Consequently your rating seems to be at least 90% luck based.

It should average out over time, but this'll probably take hundreds of games.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:34 am UTC

Honestly, I would just like to see objective time as a factor for rank, adjusted for hero played or something. Then at the very least, you'd be rewarded for doing what your main goal is. But I'd really like to know why the team averages on both sides keep being below my rank.

Because it's starting to feel like their rank system is setup to place you where you can effectively carry the sorry ass teammates a good 75% of the time.

Also, does anybody else have an issue where some games it feels like all your shots are landing great and then in another it feels like nothing hits at all? Because I don't see where things would have really changed all that much on my end that I'd have accuracy swings like that.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:21 pm UTC

Man competitive mode is frustrating. I started on 5-5, which is normal. But since then I've gone 2-8. My score has dropped a lot as a result. You'd think it would average out, but it just won't. The lower my score drops, the worse my allies become (which makes sense, I suppose), so I just keep losing. It just feels like my own play-level has very little bearing on the result of the game.

One should be weary of bias. Maybe I'm overestimating myself, and I deserve to be this low. But I don't think so. It doesn't feel like I'm being outclassed. I mean sure sometimes I face people who are clearly better, but it's pretty rare. My statistics are decent as well. Average of 16.26 eliminations and 6.26 deaths per game, playing mostly soldier76 or junkrat.

The problem is partially that skill in this game has two dimensions. How well you are individually in duels. So reflexes, aiming, etc. And secondly how well you work as a team. I'm definitely someone who's better at the second then the first. I think however most people are much better at the first then the second. So I tend to be matched with people who may be decent individually, but are absolutely horrible teamplayers.

Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun. I've had a game where the rest of my team was almost perfectly coordinated: They kept running in 1 by 1 at 5-10 seconds intervals. I was hanging back a bit, trying to flank the enemy and waiting for my team to regroup before using my ult, and it never happened because they just kept running in 1 by 1 like headless chickens. I swear our Lucio ran in solo and then blew his ult.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:05 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Man competitive mode is frustrating. I started on 5-5, which is normal. But since then I've gone 2-8. My score has dropped a lot as a result. You'd think it would average out, but it just won't. The lower my score drops, the worse my allies become (which makes sense, I suppose), so I just keep losing. It just feels like my own play-level has very little bearing on the result of the game.

One should be weary of bias. Maybe I'm overestimating myself, and I deserve to be this low. But I don't think so. It doesn't feel like I'm being outclassed. I mean sure sometimes I face people who are clearly better, but it's pretty rare. My statistics are decent as well. Average of 16.26 eliminations and 6.26 deaths per game, playing mostly soldier76 or junkrat.

The problem is partially that skill in this game has two dimensions. How well you are individually in duels. So reflexes, aiming, etc. And secondly how well you work as a team. I'm definitely someone who's better at the second then the first. I think however most people are much better at the first then the second. So I tend to be matched with people who may be decent individually, but are absolutely horrible teamplayers.

Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun. I've had a game where the rest of my team was almost perfectly coordinated: They kept running in 1 by 1 at 5-10 seconds intervals. I was hanging back a bit, trying to flank the enemy and waiting for my team to regroup before using my ult, and it never happened because they just kept running in 1 by 1 like headless chickens. I swear our Lucio ran in solo and then blew his ult.


Clans man. Clans
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:05 pm UTC

That's why I end up playing junkrat nearly every god damn game. Either I make up for the team's abysmal damage and they manage to mop up, or I'll routinely get triple kills and they for some reason still can't manage the objective. Plus, he can zone better than 76 can, and put him behind a rein with a mercy boosting dps and you've got a killing machine with a built in rez button. But I know the feeling, to slightly misquote Jurgen Klopp, I've got the mind for the pros, but the skills for the third division. Like, I perform better with a more solid team just because I can focus more on what I'm good at, instead of frustratingly trying to dps down an entire team by lobbying grenades in, which I'd have to say I've gotten pretty good at on the point control maps. But yeah, I almost always end up being the last one to die, but the team never waits for me to get back to them before charging in, so I try to get back, I get there, they get themselves killed and now I'm trying to disengage. So half the time, even if they kind of manage to group, they're a man down because they can't possibly wait the extra three seconds for me to show up.

And I really don't understand supports who run out front. Like, how do you figure you shouldn't have teammates in front of you?

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama

Re: Overwatch

Postby Weeks » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:07 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun.
They call it "tilt". Your performance will be worse due to frustration at the game. It might be a good idea to leave competitive for a while and maybe watch some pro player streams/guides to see if you can learn more. Sometimes there's specific picks that help a lot in low level play because, if you're relatively good, you can prevent your team from fucking up, or just stomp the enemies outright. (EDIT: I guess Junkrat falls into this category?)

After that, just try to take it easy...it happens to all of us.
Am I gregnant
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
rath358 wrote:manually adding a long list of swear words to my dictionary worked.

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:30 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
Diadem wrote:Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun.
They call it "tilt". Your performance will be worse due to frustration at the game. It might be a good idea to leave competitive for a while and maybe watch some pro player streams/guides to see if you can learn more. Sometimes there's specific picks that help a lot in low level play because, if you're relatively good, you can prevent your team from fucking up, or just stomp the enemies outright. (EDIT: I guess Junkrat falls into this category?)

After that, just try to take it easy...it happens to all of us.

Yeah, most of the time what your team lacks is damage output. Junkrat is one of the best at that while remaining mobile. And even the idiots tend to pick counters to the better junkrat counters.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5620
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Overwatch

Postby Diadem » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:58 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
Diadem wrote:Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun.
They call it "tilt". Your performance will be worse due to frustration at the game.

It's not my performance. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, well, I'm not a pro, I no doubt make plenty of mistakes. But I'm consistently getting good k/d ratios (even taking into account I'm mostly playing offensive heroes and should thus be at > 1).

The problem is the game itself. The matchmaking is just horrible. And there's a few serious problems with the game mechanics themselves as well. Just played three more games, each against teams that were slightly favored (1-2 points above us in score). First game we won easily, I got about 1/10th of a level. Second and third game were narrow defeats, and I lost nearly a full level each game.

I'm done with this game. Bad allies is one thing, and something that can eventually be fixed by joining a clan, but losing 6-8 times as much as you win against an enemy that is higher ranked is just fucking ridiculous.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama

Re: Overwatch

Postby Weeks » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:38 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Diadem wrote:Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun.
They call it "tilt". Your performance will be worse due to frustration at the game.

It's not my performance. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, well, I'm not a pro, I no doubt make plenty of mistakes. But I'm consistently getting good k/d ratios (even taking into account I'm mostly playing offensive heroes and should thus be at > 1).
Ah, no, I meant that the frustration will make you hate the game so much that it'll become tedious to play, and so eventually you won't focus well, leading to more mistakes, leading to more frustration, etc.

Not trying to make you feel worse about yourself or anything. Sorry you had such a bad time.
Am I gregnant
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
rath358 wrote:manually adding a long list of swear words to my dictionary worked.

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:54 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
Weeks wrote:
Diadem wrote:Quite apart from costing games, this also just isn't very fun.
They call it "tilt". Your performance will be worse due to frustration at the game.

It's not my performance. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, well, I'm not a pro, I no doubt make plenty of mistakes. But I'm consistently getting good k/d ratios (even taking into account I'm mostly playing offensive heroes and should thus be at > 1).

The problem is the game itself. The matchmaking is just horrible. And there's a few serious problems with the game mechanics themselves as well. Just played three more games, each against teams that were slightly favored (1-2 points above us in score). First game we won easily, I got about 1/10th of a level. Second and third game were narrow defeats, and I lost nearly a full level each game.

I'm done with this game. Bad allies is one thing, and something that can eventually be fixed by joining a clan, but losing 6-8 times as much as you win against an enemy that is higher ranked is just fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, the only thing competitive seems to have done is show the numbers for their shit matchmaking. Because fuck, can we stop making average team level more important than players of similar skill. I don't need to get into a game within six fucking seconds. Or, for once, could I face opponents who actually are ranked the same or higher than me? Or play with teammates in that category. Because every game today had an average team level lower than my rank. And all but one game was just a stomp. At this point I assume after a good week of loses I'll be in the I'm a god among the shit fest where I can just TDM my way to victory (so long as I can beat their team's blizzard designated carry--because there always seems to be one on both teams that's bringing up the team average) because the other team is literally that bad.

If only I could actually play when all my friends are on. Maybe I wouldn't hate it so much. Possibly because I could enjoy playing characters I'm not as good with.

Edit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comm ... een_skill/

And this pretty much points out why their rating system is so currently fucked. Theoretically time should sort that out and better distribute players away from center, but if you're resetting every three months that's going to just induce this clusterfuck over and over. But it also means their placement system isn't working very well to distribute people out.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 495
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Overwatch

Postby Koa » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:09 am UTC

You can always see the distribution settle on something very quickly after a reset. I think this is their target distribution. It's a similar curve to their other games -- Starcraft 2, Heroes. I don't know why they didn't go with their Hearthstone distribution since they both use ranks.

Did I call it again or what?
Koa wrote:I also don't trust Blizzard to do what is right for the game in the future. I expect ranked mode is going to be unsatisfying whenever they finally patch that in.

User avatar
Jahoclave
sourmilk's moderator
Posts: 4790
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:34 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:44 am UTC

Koa wrote:You can always see the distribution settle on something very quickly after a reset. I think this is their target distribution. It's a similar curve to their other games -- Starcraft 2, Heroes. I don't know why they didn't go with their Hearthstone distribution since they both use ranks.

Did I call it again or what?
Koa wrote:I also don't trust Blizzard to do what is right for the game in the future. I expect ranked mode is going to be unsatisfying whenever they finally patch that in.

Yeah, pretty much. Then again, their matchmaking is apparently shit in those games too.

And if I never see another hanzo played in this game again it'll be too many. Because fuck, just let me pick ban a character on my own team. Honestly, an amorphous blob with six hundred health that's chained to the point and can't do any damage would be just as useful to the team as these people.

User avatar
You, sir, name?
Posts: 6966
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC
Location: Chako Paul City
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:42 pm UTC

I don't think it's fair to be that upset about the overwatch matchmaking. Competitive mode hasn't been out very long, so there's going to be a shit-ton of uncertainty in basically everyone's MMR (the vast majority of people are still at most double digits in matches played, imagine yourself trying to gauge player skill based on that sample size). So you're gonna get a lot of matchmaking gore, and the fact that you have to play the same team over and over again is annoying, but I expect it will settle down.

Blizzard themselves have said they expect it to take at least one season (3 months?) to iron out the kinks in competitive mode.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

User avatar
You, sir, name?
Posts: 6966
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 am UTC
Location: Chako Paul City
Contact:

Re: Overwatch

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:51 pm UTC

So this just happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6giTggF3THI

Also note that the point is 99% captured, and this is the enemy team making a last push to reclaim it.
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests