Team Fortress 2

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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EdgarJPublius
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri May 22, 2009 5:22 pm UTC

I wish, but no.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby folkhero » Fri May 22, 2009 6:20 pm UTC

ParanoidDrone wrote:Jarate? Seriously? I was positive that was a throwaway April Fool's joke. :(

You can hate if you want, but I was having a ridiculous amount of fun throwing jars of pee at my enemies last night. Now if I could just unlock the Jarate so I can try it in the game...

Seriously though, I got the Jarate almost right away and, even though I hardly ever play as sniper, proceeded to throw so much urine at people that I got all but one of the Jarate-based achievements. I love the 'friendship is golden' achievement where you put out an on-fire friend with your own piss.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri May 22, 2009 9:19 pm UTC

heh, I dominated some snipers last night, my favorite new voice taunt was 'You disgust me Jar-Man' :P
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Fri May 22, 2009 10:08 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Don't you also unlock a weapon if you pick up ammo from a dropped one?

Never heard that before. But how would you pick up ammo from, for example, the spy watches?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SoapyHobo » Fri May 22, 2009 10:32 pm UTC

I presume he meant that picking up an unlockable weapon dropped after someone had been killed would give it to you. Picking up guns/knifes/etc gives you ammo and metal.

The only new update I've gotten is the Dead Ringer (along with extra blutsauger, bonk, sandvich and natascha). It's pretty good, though I suspect it's mostly because people are still unused to 'dead' spies reappearing behind them and backstabbing them. Disguising as your own team seems to be a pretty good tactic.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Fri May 22, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

Can you trigger the cloak without being shot?

Also, I heart the cloak and dagger. Seems to be made for one like me who likes to take his time to strike, so I can just sit there indefinately as they move past.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby SoapyHobo » Fri May 22, 2009 11:32 pm UTC

Phen wrote:Can you trigger the cloak without being shot?
It triggers if you take damage from anything, so you'd have to take fall damage or some other environmental damage. No manual triggering without getting shot, though you can choose whether to cloak if you are being shot at (just don't have it out).

EDIT: You also take a lot less damage if you're holding the watch, you can get hit by a train and survive, and it puts out fire for you. Recharges in about 10 seconds too.
Last edited by SoapyHobo on Sat May 23, 2009 8:42 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Sat May 23, 2009 12:00 am UTC

Throwing the Jarate at someone and watching everyone turn to shoot that person is hilarious, it's like the person has been covered in boomer bile.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jahoclave » Sat May 23, 2009 12:14 am UTC

Awia wrote:Throwing the Jarate at someone and watching everyone turn to shoot that person is hilarious, it's like the person has been covered in boomer bile.



BOOOOOOMMMMMMMEEEEEEERRRR!

Seriously, they deserve to die if they're too incompetent to melee the boomer first. Unless you're like me, and always happen to be in about the middle of the group, see the boomer, pop him, and let him explode on the guy up front.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat May 23, 2009 12:36 am UTC

So, apparently Robin has said that the new weapon system isn't working as intended (weapon 'drops' being too rare for many people.)
But there's no indication of when or if it will be fixed.


thanks valve :/
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Awia » Sat May 23, 2009 12:41 am UTC

They usually fix stuff like this sharpish, I wouldn't be surprised to get the patch tomorrow.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Torvaun » Sat May 23, 2009 1:21 am UTC

I wouldn't mind if you could at least earn the sniper and spy stuff like all the other unlockables (other than hats).
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jahoclave » Sat May 23, 2009 1:31 am UTC

Torvaun wrote:I wouldn't mind if you could at least earn the sniper and spy stuff like all the other unlockables (other than hats).

Well, I can see this, but I think they rather wanted to cut down on the achievement server stuff. I mean, I couldn't give that much of a damn about achievements, but I did some of that just so I could get the weapons.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ishindri » Sat May 23, 2009 1:34 am UTC

There's supposed to be an update due out tonight, actually. No idea what it entails, though.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Jorpho » Sat May 23, 2009 2:34 am UTC

Well, something just happened:
Fixed Ambassador not using hitboxes to trace against players. It now works like all other bullet-firing weapons in the game
Fixed Ambassador shooting through gates
Fixed Ambassador not critting during the round win period
Fixed control point not being named correctly on Arena Sawmill
Fixed cloaked Spies being able to taunt attack
Fixed Spy feign death not being reflected in scoreboard
Fixed Jarate effect on DX8 machines
Fixed rare crash in Spy "A Cut Above" achievement
Fixed the backpack icon appearing over the "Could not connect to Steam" message in the client inventory
Fixed German localization string for respawning players showing %1

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Mother Superior » Sat May 23, 2009 12:16 pm UTC

Yay, I now have two axtuingishers... the first one I unlocked last week... hooray.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Sat May 23, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

So, Valve lured me in with the free weekend. I'd played it once before on someone else's 360, and quickly gave up because I hate console FPSs. On the computer game, though, I'm having more fun.

At the moment I have the most points/time with the Medic, the Engineer, the Soldier, and the Heavy. I've been playing around with Sniper (I aim too low to win at sniper v. sniper fights), Scout (I can run up to and beat snipers, but suck at actually capturing), Spy (I can get into the base fine around half the time, but am poor at backstabbing), and haven't really touched pyro or demoman. I think my favorite classes are the Engineer and Medic; Medic because you don't have to do much besides follow better players and know when to hit the invuln, and Engineer because you don't need to have good aim. The problem I end up with for Engineer is either I place my turret in a subpar spot, or enemy spies sap it too frequently.

I'm not sure if I'll pick it up at the end of the weekend. I don't have a FPS on my comp at the moment, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. But this one, at $10, seems more and more worth it.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Sat May 23, 2009 3:40 pm UTC

Spies will always sap your sentries. You just gotta guard it and hope you've got some competent teammates to help take them out.

In other news, I still heart cloak and dagger. I'm having a blast playing a spy for once. Latest fun was when I patiently sat at a point, and watched A: The snipers kept running out to me, one by one (stabbity stab), and B: The engineer set up his sentry RIGHT in front of me, giving me an easy stab and sap. Unfortunately his teammates took me out there, but it was fun none the less :D

In fact I love it so much that I just picked up a second cloak and dagger. So, when the item trading is put into place, I got a spare. Also just picked up jarate, but only got one of those so far.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby thecommabandit » Sat May 23, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:I'm not sure if I'll pick it up at the end of the weekend. I don't have a FPS on my comp at the moment, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. But this one, at $10, seems more and more worth it.

I'd advise if you want to buy TF2 that you instead buy the Orange Box. It not only contains TF2, but also Half-Life 2, Episodes 1 and 2 and Portal. And honestly, Portal is one of the shortest games in the pack but that alone is worth the money.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sat May 23, 2009 6:50 pm UTC

You can also get the Valve complete pack, which includes the Orange Box and L4D (which makes it already worth the money), and gives you Day of Defeat, Counter Strike (and expansions), and Half Life 1, all of those in both Source and GoldSrc form. Most importantly though, it has every version of the Source engine included in some way or another, so you will have access to about 45 different free mods that are all very good.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 7:24 pm UTC

I hate the cloak and dagger...hate...it...

They should lower the time that it cloaks you after...7-8 seconds is ages in TF2

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Ratio » Sat May 23, 2009 7:29 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:I hate the cloak and dagger...hate...it...

They should lower the time that it cloaks you after...7-8 seconds is ages in TF2

Wasn't the old timer 10 seconds? That was barely enough to get from cover to cover on some maps.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Sat May 23, 2009 9:48 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:I hate the cloak and dagger...hate...it...

They should lower the time that it cloaks you after...7-8 seconds is ages in TF2

That's the Dead Ringer?
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 9:48 pm UTC

Is it?

Well I hate that.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Amalith » Sat May 23, 2009 9:51 pm UTC

Ratio wrote:
crucialityfactor wrote:I hate the cloak and dagger...hate...it...

They should lower the time that it cloaks you after...7-8 seconds is ages in TF2

Wasn't the old timer 10 seconds? That was barely enough to get from cover to cover on some maps.


I agree, but I wish I had the cloak and dagger. What I hate is the dead ringer. It rarely seems to work. The one time I actually saw myself going invisible after being hit, I was killed by continued spray from the havy shooting at me. Pyros make it entirely useless, being flaming even if you make it away, Other classes can usually kill you in one hit anyway.

And to top it off you can't go invisible. On the plus side, it looks cool

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Vaniver » Sat May 23, 2009 10:00 pm UTC

thecommabandit wrote:I'd advise if you want to buy TF2 that you instead buy the Orange Box. It not only contains TF2, but also Half-Life 2, Episodes 1 and 2 and Portal. And honestly, Portal is one of the shortest games in the pack but that alone is worth the money.
I've already played Portal and have no interest in HL2. As fun as Portal was, I don't see it having much in the way of replay value.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Sat May 23, 2009 10:55 pm UTC

Is anyone else getting totally screwed by the randomness of when you get items? I've played for several hours today (like 4+ I think) and I haven't gotten a single random drop. Nothing. Not even old items. I understand that the nature of randomness is that you sometimes get nothing and other times get a lot, but this seems ridiculous.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby crucialityfactor » Sat May 23, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

Had some guy who was afk, not even on a team...get a weapon. One of the new ones too.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:Had some guy who was afk, not even on a team...get a weapon. One of the new ones too.


I'd like to say that I'm officially jealous of everyone who's gotten lucky with the randomness... apparently the random number generator consistently hates me.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat May 23, 2009 11:23 pm UTC

d0nk3y_k0n9 wrote:Is anyone else getting totally screwed by the randomness of when you get items? I've played for several hours today (like 4+ I think) and I haven't gotten a single random drop. Nothing. Not even old items. I understand that the nature of randomness is that you sometimes get nothing and other times get a lot, but this seems ridiculous.



Yea, I've played about eight total hours since the update and I've only gotten two weapons I already had.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Upsilon » Sat May 23, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

It seems the random item generator hates me as well. Last night I got the Razorback and Jarate in about 3 hours. I figured that I'd get some more today. After 5+ hours... Nothing at all. I think that consistently failing to receive items should increase the odds of getting them.

And the hats are out, too. I want the Medic's.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat May 23, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

at least you got new items, many of use have not been so lucky.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Upsilon » Sat May 23, 2009 11:58 pm UTC

The Jarate is quite fun, but I'd trade it for a Huntsman. I want to pin ragdolls to walls!
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Phen » Sun May 24, 2009 2:01 am UTC

I'll repeat how much the game must love me, then, having gotten the ambassador and cloak and dagger within the first 2 hours of playing the new update.

...

In other words, nyah nyah.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sun May 24, 2009 2:27 am UTC

In 10 hours I haven't recieved a thing. Not even a duplicate of my old stuff. I really hope they get around to fixing this soon :/

Can we just go back to the achievement system?

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby crucialityfactor » Sun May 24, 2009 3:40 am UTC

Or at least come up with a better distribution idea...just giving someone a random weapon after a random amount of time makes zero sense. There should be at least some control on the player's part. If I wanted the scout weapons I played scout, but now I'll be playing scout and I'll get the boxing gloves after 2-4 hours

Also...new map:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/463/tf ... final3.jpg

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Naurgul » Sun May 24, 2009 8:28 am UTC

My brother got the Dead Ringer yesterday. I really can't understand why you guys hate it. It was awesome. Try it like this: Friendly disguise, run towards an enemy, get shot, go behind a corner, disguise as enemy. This will allow you to move deeper into enemy territory than the regular cloak, plus people won't know there's a spy around. Then, start going towards the battle, kill the first enemy you see. Rinse, repeat. It's really easy now that not too many people are aware of it.

About the people who didn't get any items yet: There was supposed to be a bug in the system that made drops more rare than they should be for some people.The latest blog post implied that it was fixed but it wasn't very clear so maybe it isn't. The exact wording was
In the first few hours after the release yesterday, we had some issues that prevented the system from working properly, so that timeframe was not indicative of the system as it's designed.


Also, I sent them an email with suggestions to improve the item drop system:
Hello,

Good job on the biggest update for TF2 yet! The introduction of the new item drop system seems to be really controversial in the community. After reading much about the debate, I have decided to send you some of the things that popped up in my mind while thinking about this.

One of the first things that I think needs improvement is the fact that the rate of getting items is constant. That leads to people joining or creating servers and staying AFK in there to get stuff. On top of that, it robs the players of a feeling of achievement when getting an item since they have no control over how it happens.

However, anything that would give control to the player would open up the system to abuse, either from servers or the players themselves. So, the next question that comes to mind is "How do you gather data without trusting the servers too much?".

Fortunately, you already have a solution for that. It's the server scoring system you posted a while ago: http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2338. It ranks servers by gathering distributed data from the players that visit them; that's hard to spoof.

So, the first thing I am going to suggest is to raise the chance of finding items in servers with good scores and lower it in servers with low scores. That gives an incentive for servers to compete more to offer a good experience to players. Not only that but it guarantees a level of trust: A high-scoring server is more likely to host the game as intended, ban cheaters, kick AFKers and generally provide valid data. However, this alone doesn't give players much control over their chances to get items.

To address the problem of the feeling of achievement, I'd suggest giving items only at the end of a round, only to players of the winning team. That would work like this: Roll the chances normally, as it is done now, but withhold the items gained until the end of a round. Then, allow only the players of the winning team to get their items. Alternatively, do a re-roll for the losing team, giving them a chance to lose any items gained. Of course, this requires trusting that the server doesn't lie about who is in which team and when a round ends. Still, servers with high-scores are more likely to be trustworthy in that regard, aren't they?

A different approach (not so compatible with the above) to address the same problem is to spawn items inside the map, only visible to the player who got it, client-side. it could work like this: A pop-up tells the player that there's a package for him somewhere. The player starts searching for it (hopefully not diverging too much from the places he ought to be to be useful to his team). The item is only really awarded when he finds and gets it.

Another suggestion would be to increase the chance to get an item for players that are high-ranking on their team. Again, that depends on the server not lying, so it would be wise to allow only for high-scoring servers to do that.

Finally, to give players a bit more control over which items they get, the obvious solution is that the item dropped depends on how much a player plays each class. So, a player who plays medic most gets a higher chance to get medic unlocks and a player who plays spy most gets a higher chance to get spy unlocks. Of course, if this is based on lifetime stats, then it would be too difficult for the player to change his chances, so it probably should be based on the last 2 weeks, or the last 20 hours of play, or something like that.

If you have taken the time to read to this point, thank you very much. I really hope my thoughts and suggestions are of some use to you. I'm looking forward to seeing what you will do about all of his in the end.

-<name here>

PS: Oh, before I forget: definitely do trading. It's a must.
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby LuNatic » Sun May 24, 2009 9:28 am UTC

About 6 hours play has netted me the jarate, which is a lot of fun, and the razorback, which is surprisingly useful. I don't know why I need three axetinguishers though :S
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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Uber_Apple » Sun May 24, 2009 10:37 am UTC

@ Naurgul. I like your idea of 'finding' a package with a weapon but i would suggest taking it even further:

While playing as a class, a random popup gives you a challenge to complete with that class ie 'backstab a heavy/ medic pair with an ubercharge ready to get <spy item>' or 'deploy 3 ubercharges or more this round and get at least 20 assist kills overall to get <medic item>' .

At that point you can choose to complete the challenge or ignore it thus giving a level of choice and the player can also turn off the popups completely if they are not interested in / already have all the weapons.
The challenges would be useful to the team and stop people doing things like taunting while ubered etc. because killing a heavy medic pair with an uber/ deployings lots of ubers would help the team win and so hopefully wouldn't mess up game balance during a new update.

edit: i guess you could implement an easy, medium, hard system with people lower on the scoreboards getting easier challenges so that they don't feel left out and giving better players more of a challenge, if they want to take it.
Last edited by Uber_Apple on Sun May 24, 2009 11:34 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Team Fortress 2

Postby Naurgul » Sun May 24, 2009 10:50 am UTC

I can see that working if the challenges were quite easy (example: You are a spy, kill enemy sniper X to get item Y) and you were given enough time to try it a few times. Otherwise it would be a frustrating tease. However, linking the drops too much to gameplay would mean that you show the servers some trust, which means you open up the system to abuse. In any case, it's a good idea, like dynamic mini-quests or something.
Praised be the nightmare, which reveals to us that we have the power to create hell.


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