Zelda

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Narsil
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:04 pm UTC

Is anyone else enjoying Phantom Hourglass as little as I am? I've been a Zelda fan since Link's Awakening, and I've played them all. I can honestly say that this is one of the more tedious Zelda games I've ever played. The core of my gripe is that horrid Temple of the Ocean King for making me go through the stupid thing over and over and over again. The dungeon design is horrible, thanks to dungeons that are hard for the wrong reason, like beeping floors that summon unbeatable overpowered enemies, switches whose effects last too short, and god damn blocks that you have to carry very slowly through them. Oh, and walking on the aforementioned floors not only got 30 seconds knocked off my life clock and my block stolen by the unbeatable monster, it also caused my DS to emit an unpleasant buzzing sound even after I left the area, until I restarted the game.

But past that, there's also the sailing mechanic which, in my opinion, is almost less fun than Wind Waker. Sure you can plot a course and not have to steer much, but they simply threw in more enemies so you still can't look away from the screen. Then there's the treasure section, which is just shy of broken. Every time I've tried to use it, the game rammed my salvage arm into a wall until it broke, regardless of where I told the arm to go. So then I have to sail all the way back to some godforsaken island and pay a fat guy 100 rupees to get it fixed. Then I go and break it again.

And yet, I see a genuinely good game under all of this, and what makes it so frustrating is that I can't get to it. And it's not that the game is too hard, it's that I simply don't have fun playing it. The whole thing feels like a chore.
Spoiler:
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Re: Zelda

Postby Jessica » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:32 pm UTC

Personally, I've never been as much of a fan of the handheld zeldas. Just can't get into them.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:25 pm UTC

Link's Awakening is one of my favorite in the series, honestly. I started Phantom Hourglass but haven't played it since I accidentally turned off my DS without saving an hour of progress. That said, I like that I'm killing monsters and not sailing around aimlessly.

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Re: Zelda

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:25 pm UTC

So.. I'm the only one who actually enjoyed the sailing part of Wind Waker?
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Re: Zelda

Postby Aleril » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:37 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:So.. I'm the only one who actually enjoyed the sailing part of Wind Waker?


No, I quite enjoyed it as well.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:58 pm UTC

Gharbad wrote:I got my expansion pack with a free game.
Yay donkey kong 64. Such a horrible game, but it came with the expansion pack.

Oh man, I got the N64 with DK64 packed in, so it was bright green. Man, that game was terrible, and basically cemented my general distaste for 3D platformers. Thankfully, they're moving away from the collect-a-thon that game was. Plus sticking arcade Donkey Kong and Jetpac in the middle of the game as REQUIREMENTS to finish the game? Seriously.

But yeah, I'm thinking the Expansion Pack may well be why MM hasn't been released on the VC yet. Did Sin & Punishment require it? It was nice that it made Perfect Dark playable, but hilarious that it broke another couple games.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Blatm » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:11 pm UTC

Aleril wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:So.. I'm the only one who actually enjoyed the sailing part of Wind Waker?


No, I quite enjoyed it as well.


I did too at first. It got old after you rescued your sister though. I congratulate Nintendo for the timing for the Ballad of the Gales. There was still a good amount of sailing after that, that became sort of annoying, but I couldn't justify being upset by it after gaining the ability to warp. Still, I enjoyed the mechanic a lot.

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Re: Zelda

Postby ponzerelli » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:50 am UTC

Narsil wrote:
And yet, I see a genuinely good game under all of this, and what makes it so frustrating is that I can't get to it. And it's not that the game is too hard, it's that I simply don't have fun playing it. The whole thing feels like a chore.


It sounds to me like you jsut had a screwed up copy. The buzzing sound after the floors never happened to me, and i never hit the salvage arm against the wall, atleast not in the way you described it happening. the only problem i had with the treasure was that i couldnt always see which way the next octopus bomb thing was coming, due to my hands being larger than most. i enjoyed the sailing mechanics. didnt have a problem with more enemies. just plot a course to avoid the pirate ships and everything else is just a one hit kill. the temple of the ocean king was cool in that with each time you had to go back, the new item you had was able to make the trip a little faster. i liked trying to beat my own time, also.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:33 pm UTC

I also didn't have nearly Narsil's problems with Phantom Hourglass. I think it's just a bad copy or a bad DS.

And I actually plotted my courses into the pirate ships. When they sink, they create salvage points!
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Re: Zelda

Postby segmentation fault » Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:55 pm UTC

Link to the Past ranks 2nd among my greatest games of all time (Super Metroid is #1).
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Re: Zelda

Postby ponzerelli » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:44 pm UTC

Belial wrote: And I actually plotted my courses into the pirate ships. When they sink, they create salvage points!


Really? I did not know that. I'll have to do that the next time i play through.

segmentation fault wrote:Link to the Past ranks 2nd among my greatest games of all time (Super Metroid is #1).


I still haven't finished Link to the Past, I'm stuck in the Dark World. I'm also stuck in Super Metroid, but it is amazing so far.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:08 pm UTC

ponzerelli wrote:
Belial wrote: And I actually plotted my courses into the pirate ships. When they sink, they create salvage points!


Really? I did not know that. I'll have to do that the next time i play through.


It's only the main ships in the fleets, the ones with the sails. The others just sink.
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Re: Zelda

Postby mosc » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:02 pm UTC

how do you kill the pirates effectively? Is this just because I don't have enough ship parts to have some decent endurance? Do they keep coming back if you sink them all?

Blasted pirates...
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:07 pm UTC

Belial wrote:I also didn't have nearly Narsil's problems with Phantom Hourglass. I think it's just a bad copy or a bad DS.
You know, that could be it, I got my DS on launch day.
Spoiler:
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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:42 pm UTC

mosc wrote:how do you kill the pirates effectively? Is this just because I don't have enough ship parts to have some decent endurance? Do they keep coming back if you sink them all?

Blasted pirates...


Good endurance is good but not necessary. If you keep all the ships on one side of you, and you're quick enough to shoot down any cannonballs that actually look like they're going to hit you, you can take them out pretty effectively.

They come back once you dock and reemerge into the ocean, but they won't respawn while you're on top of them or anything.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:46 pm UTC

Do the pirates ever get harder? I notice the ones that pursue me more or less sit there until I blast the shit out of them.

Edit: This review accurately describes every problem I had with the game.
Spoiler:
EsotericWombat wrote:MORE JUNK THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR

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Re: Zelda

Postby mosc » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:51 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Good endurance is good but not necessary. If you keep all the ships on one side of you, and you're quick enough to shoot down any cannonballs that actually look like they're going to hit you, you can take them out pretty effectively.

They come back once you dock and reemerge into the ocean, but they won't respawn while you're on top of them or anything.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Jakarias » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:55 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Jakarias wrote:You Genesis children... always so bitter.

You're just jealous of the blast processing :P


Can't be jealous of what I haven't heard of. Although to be honest I always looked forward to going to my cousins to have a go on his mega drive (what they called it here). But if you look at it... Game Gear... Saturn... Dreamcast... all a bit rubbish weren't they? Master System all the way as far as Sega is concerned!

And talking about all this Zelda malarkey back on topic. This Link character is always this "legendary hero" or whatever but he's molly coddled a bit isn't he? Always finding what he needs in every so called "dungeon". Hah! Back in my day if we ever came across a locked door and an eye shaped target we just kicked the thing down and got on with it. Mutter... grumble!
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Re: Zelda

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:53 am UTC

Jakarias wrote:
Amnesiasoft wrote:
Jakarias wrote:You Genesis children... always so bitter.

You're just jealous of the blast processing :P


Can't be jealous of what I haven't heard of.

It was basically this silly marketing idea from Sega. Youtube video of the commercial. Doesn't really say what it is, they just try to make it look cooler :P

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Re: Zelda

Postby akashra » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:53 am UTC

LTTP is by far the all time best Zelda game, if not SNES game of all time. OOT was great, but it was just so frustrating for replayability - all the good dungeons were at the end, and you had to play through the first four before you got to them, which ruined it because they were for the most part long, arduous and boring.
Twilight Princes was certainly great, as was Links Awakening.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:54 am UTC

A Link to the Past makes a case for THE best game ever, and is the only time, in my opinion, that Nintendo should have ever used the "Alternate Dark World That Looks Just Like the Light World" storyline, because each time they redid it, it just got weaker. (Glare: Metroid Prime 2).
Spoiler:
EsotericWombat wrote:MORE JUNK THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR

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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:16 am UTC

Narsil wrote:A Link to the Past makes a case for THE best game ever, and is the only time, in my opinion, that Nintendo should have ever used the "Alternate Dark World That Looks Just Like the Light World" storyline, because each time they redid it, it just got weaker. (Glare: Metroid Prime 2).


Really? I've liked it more or less every time it's been done.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Jakarias » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:18 am UTC

Metroid Prime 2 was pretty good I thought. There was definitely that feeling of being the only glimmer of light in a dark world there. Plus I love killing those Ing creatures with light weapons.

When else has it been done. i can't think off top of my head.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:15 pm UTC

It was sortof done in twilight princess. Also, Silent Hill, but that was hardly a nintendo game.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:01 pm UTC

Jakarias wrote:But if you look at it.... Saturn... Dreamcast... all a bit rubbish weren't they?

No. No they weren't. :x

Hell, even the Game Gear was just a miniaturized Master System, so if you liked that, it's a bit silly to call the GG rubbish. They pretty much were over here, though.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:13 pm UTC

Well, except the Master system didn't consume batteries in a never-ending electrical sacrifice to the gods of gaming.

If I unplugged the game gear from the wall, it would eat every battery in my house within hours. In the deep places of my mind, I harbor suspicions that it was fully *capable* of seeking out batteries to sate its dark lust for capacitors (how could something so unspeakably hungry lack the ability?), it just liked to make me get up and bring them to it, like some sort of demented addict-slave. I think it was amused by my subservience.
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Re: Zelda

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:21 pm UTC

Jakarias wrote:But if you look at it... Game Gear... Saturn... Dreamcast... all a bit rubbish weren't they?


Game Gear - yes.

the rest, ABSOLUTELY NOT. they were just undermarketed.

Narsil wrote:A Link to the Past makes a case for THE best game ever, and is the only time, in my opinion, that Nintendo should have ever used the "Alternate Dark World That Looks Just Like the Light World" storyline, because each time they redid it, it just got weaker. (Glare: Metroid Prime 2).


quoted for absolute truth.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:54 pm UTC

segmentation fault wrote:
Jakarias wrote:But if you look at it... Game Gear... Saturn... Dreamcast... all a bit rubbish weren't they?


Game Gear - yes.

the rest, ABSOLUTELY NOT. they were just undermarketed.

To be fair, the US got shafted with the Saturn since 80% of the good games for it were never released here due to retarded Sega of America execs. Thankfully, playing imports was easy since you just needed to get a 4-in-1 cart that would let you play anything and also give more space to save.

The Dreamcast was just poorly marketed and beaten by an exceptionally overhyped PS2.

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Re: Zelda

Postby mosc » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:01 pm UTC

hey, another question in phantom hourglass

Spoiler:
I'm stuck trying to find where to go for the third metal. I've got the SE sea map and have gotten one from the rock ppl and one from the winter people. Where is the third one? I can only find 4 islands here and the other two are the digging game and the DS island with the racing game. HELP!
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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:00 pm UTC

Mosc:

Spoiler:
Go deeper into the temple of the ocean king and get the map for the other quarter of the ocean. The last metal is in the northeast.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:47 pm UTC

Belial wrote:It was sortof done in twilight princess. Also, Silent Hill, but that was hardly a nintendo game.

Granted, Twilight Princess wasn't a terrible use of it. The very first segment with wolf link chained up in Hyrule Castle was pretty chilling. After that, it was somewhat frustrating, but at least once the game shifted into act 2 it just got the hell out of your way.
Spoiler:
EsotericWombat wrote:MORE JUNK THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR

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Re: Zelda

Postby Belial » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:50 am UTC

Now talk shit about that mechanic in silent hill. YOU CAN'T.
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Re: Zelda

Postby Narsil » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:18 am UTC

Damn straight I can't, seeing as how I've never played Silent Hill.
Spoiler:
EsotericWombat wrote:MORE JUNK THAN YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR

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Re: Zelda

Postby CrackTheSky » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:59 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:It was basically this silly marketing idea from Sega. Youtube video of the commercial. Doesn't really say what it is, they just try to make it look cooler :P

rofl

Genesis WAS awesome though, I don't know who could disagree with that.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Kag » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:04 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote: Doesn't really say what it is


Double buffering.
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Re: Zelda

Postby i like pi » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 am UTC

I personally loved oracle of seasons... but no one ever seems to agree with me...


I did play the original and LttP.
OoT I got a used copy, and it was almost beaten, so I just did the first three dungeons and then did the last one in the save file... I need to go do the whole thing.
Or something to that effect. Hell, I don't know.

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Re: Zelda

Postby CrackTheSky » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:52 am UTC

i like pi wrote:I personally loved oracle of seasons... but no one ever seems to agree with me...

I really like the Oracle games. I think they're often overlooked in the Zelda franchise (I tend to forget they exist every so often too). The rings were especially cool, and I absolutely love the overworlds for both games. Each game has good and bad dungeons, and for the most part they're about equal...but I tend to like Oracle of Ages a little better, just because it's more puzzle-focused than OoS, and I love puzzles in Zelda games.

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Re: Zelda

Postby ponzerelli » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:24 pm UTC

A lot of people say "Oh yeah! I've played every Zelda game, excluding the CD-i ones of course". I've seen a couple videos of them, they have the same art style of the cartoon, but what exactly is it that everyone hates about it? Is the gameplay just such a far stretch from the regualr franchise, or is it voice acting, or combination of alot of stuff? I'd like to know, I've never palyed them.

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Re: Zelda

Postby Hephesus » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:35 pm UTC

The original LoZ for the NES has a special place in my hear because it was my first. But I do feel A Link to the Past was my favorite. It had a massive world, cool items, awesome side quests. The feel of it has just not been duplicated.

Zelda 2: Adventures of Link is also great, though many people don't like the side scrolling, but it is one of the most, if not THE most, challenging game of the series.

Most people's favorite seems to be OoT, but I feel that while revolutionary it felt kind of small and rough. I like Majora's Mask much better. It is more polished and very original, and the mechanic that the side quests ARE the main quest was great.

Wind Waker was the the only Zelda game I haven't finished. The sailing just got to my nerves and I stopped when I had to find the pieces of the tri-force. Ironically, the sailing in Hourglass does not bother me at all. I think it's because they got rid of the wind thing.

TP is great, but entirely too easy.

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Re: Zelda

Postby trickster721 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:48 pm UTC

CrackTheSky wrote:I played LttP for the GBA (I assume there's very little difference, if any, between that and the SNES version) and it never really grabbed me.

The GBA ports are hate crimes against the SNES. I wouldn't have believed it was possible to make a nearly identical version of a game while totally screwing up the look and feel, but it is.
Narsil wrote:Is anyone else enjoying Phantom Hourglass as little as I am?

I don't hate it, but it's not that exciting either. I agree that the big swings of difficulty are weird, but it's not going to keep me from finishing the game or anything. The challenging parts aren't distributed very well, which is different from the game being too hard overall.

Mostly I'm just having fun checking out the new controls. I've been wondering if the King's Quest style detachment might also be hurting it a little, though. Dying doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore. My hands haven't gotten sweaty.


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