Command & Conquer

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Saturn
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Command & Conquer

Postby Saturn » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:01 pm UTC

I'm POSITIVE that a ton of people on these forums play the C&C games. Personally, I'm a -huge- fan of Red Alert 2. I haven't played Tiberium Wars yet, though. Is that any good?




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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby william » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:45 pm UTC

Be one with Yuri...
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby malarkie » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:50 pm UTC

Tiberium Wars is pretty good. It's defenitely worth playing through. The only problem I have with it is that it doesn't feel like C&C (pre-generals). Except for the cutscenes, those are Awesome.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby william » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:58 pm UTC

The cutscenes have Joe Kucan, and as we all know Joe Kucan is the only thing that can improve a series more than HRG. (If Kane and HRG were in the same room together, it would cause some sort of quantum malfunction.)
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:59 am UTC

RA2 with Yuri's Revenge is possibly the best C&C ever, mostly because all the different units got individual voices for their type with the expansion.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Gadren » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:20 am UTC

It's interesting ... I played through C&C 3, but only as Nod, and I think it's the only C&C I ever finished.
I have fun with the gameplay, but I always view it as an annoying obstacle between delicious cutscenes. I love the story and general feel of the C&C universe much more than the gameplay. Oh, and I love Nod. And by that I mean: if Nod existed... I would literally join them, because they are cool. Reasons?
1: GDI just sits around, keeping everything "the same." Sure, preservation of the world and all, but what sort of world would it be where things just "remained?"
2: I suspect that my initial leanings toward transhumanism were greatly augmented by three things, and Kane's vision of a "transformed" future, villainous as it may be, fascinates me. (By the way, the other two influences? Probably Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri, and the LDS doctrine of "eternal progression" -- perhaps the only thing I retained from that faith... but anyway! I'm getting off-topic.)
3: Kane's shiny bald head.

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Saturn
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Saturn » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:01 am UTC

Yuri's Revenge, oi....


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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby xenuphobia » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:57 am UTC

I played a whole bunch of RA2 and Yuri's Revenge, but C&C 3 gives me that infamous D3D e_out_of_memory error every time I try to play. I was really into it for a while, too, but it just crashes every single freakin' time.

I have Tiberian Sun and Firestorm sitting around here somewhere, but I could never get into the primitive pixelization. Though, I have to admit, I had C&C:Red Alert: Retaliation for the PSOne once upon a time and we did play that game a hell of a lot, even with the standard controller. And let me tell you, that was uncomfortable.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby drconcon » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:42 am UTC

I haven't played C&C 3 yet but I will say RA2 is one of the best games EVER.
I didn't like Yuri's Revenge as much but it was still a barrel of laughs.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:11 pm UTC

RA2 is win. Yuri's revenge means that there is more of it. This is good.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Prole » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:25 pm UTC

xenuphobia wrote:I played a whole bunch of RA2 and Yuri's Revenge, but C&C 3 gives me that infamous D3D e_out_of_memory error every time I try to play. I was really into it for a while, too, but it just crashes every single freakin' time.

I have Tiberian Sun and Firestorm sitting around here somewhere, but I could never get into the primitive pixelization. Though, I have to admit, I had C&C:Red Alert: Retaliation for the PSOne once upon a time and we did play that game a hell of a lot, even with the standard controller. And let me tell you, that was uncomfortable.


I remember playing retaliation multiplayer with two psOne's in a mates house. First proper multiplayer strategy game i ever played.

Though i soon found total annihilation after.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby omglolbah » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:50 pm UTC

It saddens me greatly that CnC First Decade is so bogged down with DRM.

I played the cracked version (I own all the originals but where the hell did I put the discs after 3 moves during college?) for a few months then decided to buy it....

Cant play it. Have virtualization software (required for coding projects) installed which means the DRM goes ape on me.. Works fine with cracks though...

Rant over ;)


My personal favourite is RA2/RA2-YURI. The earlier games are just too low quality graphics to go back to. I prefer remembering my old relation to the games. That whole 'not visiting your childhood heroes' deal :)

Amusingly enough... The game I play the most on my spiffy new gaming computer is -still- RA2-YURI, with a dash of Generals-ZH and some WoW mixed in for variation.


I agree that CnC-tibwar was lacking some of the CnC-ness of the earlier games but still a worthy addition to the pack :)

*runs off to kill some evil NODs :-p*

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby drconcon » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:13 pm UTC

I looooved Tiberian Sun one of my favorite ones in the series next to RA2.
I actually never beat it or Firestorm, it was that same thing, I lost both the disks after several, several moves. It kind of disappoints me.

I never really got into Generals, don't get me wrong, it was damn fun I just never got into it.

I need to get Tiberian Sun again...
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby thisisdavid » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:39 am UTC

for me red alert 1 will always be the best of the series, with the original C&C following. everything from tiberian sun onward has just been too wonky, what with cyborgs and mind control and the like, and i just cant get into all the superspecialized units from RA2, all i ever used was GIs and rocketeers anyways. RA1 and C&C have that gritty, military feel and I love how in the campaigns it always seems like you're just barely hanging on. Bring back turrets. That's all i have to say about that.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby frosty » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:50 pm UTC

original c&c...with dinosaurs!

I loved the original, some of the levels were near impossible to beat as I recall, but it has been some time.

red alert was ok, but only really went for the mission packs to get the ants!

played tiberian sun (and firestorm).

infact, the only thing I haven't played fully is generals:zero hour and renegade! (and the c&c3 expansion).

was NOT happy when they released generals.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Ghandi 2 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:33 pm UTC

I used to love RA2. I tried to play it again, though, and found it unbearably boring. I guess I've been spoiled by the greatness of Myth 2 because I can't stand victory by attrition games anymore.

Yuri was unbalanced as hell. I never even beat Yuri's Revenge because the later stages were too hard. I can't believe the critics said it balanced everything, too.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:34 pm UTC

It... did balance everything. At least I think so. The interface got easier to use, which was nice.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby omglolbah » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:48 pm UTC

Ok, I'm enough of a math geek to laugh out loud at that sig bigglesworth :-p

*steals it for his stash of math jokes*

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby drconcon » Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:00 am UTC

Yuri was unbalanced as hell. I never even beat Yuri's Revenge because the later stages were too hard.


I agree. Thats why I never finished the later levels either, waaay to hard.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Aleril » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:25 am UTC

I had a friend that was a CNC FANATIC.

He literally went to EA headquarters to meet the guys there.

Also, almost every other conversation I had with him was about CNC, and I often made insults about Kane to piss him off.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:47 pm UTC

omglolbah wrote:Ok, I'm enough of a math geek to laugh out loud at that sig bigglesworth :-p

*steals it for his stash of math jokes*


Finally, I'd been waiting for someone to appreciate it. Though admittedly it is my only pun involving non-euclidean geometry.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

This is a ridiculous bump, but I was just playing Tiberian Sun (works on vista, and is still fun). However, I've found something interesting; on the gdi mission where you have to destroy the radar array, there are a bunch of tiberium fiends under attack by nod. Now, if you're really careful, you can kill some of the soldiers attacking them, and entice the nod attack buggy to attack the fiends. At which point they go nuts and start killing nod. Now they destroy most of the lasers, which is cool. But the interesting thing is that you also see a truck on you map wander around. I have managed to protect it round a large circle (this took taking out a base and lots of attacking units, etc to stop it from being destroyed), but then lost it when it when north. Anyone else seen this? Anyone else knows if it does anything?
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Vieto » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:52 pm UTC

Personally, My favourite was, and still is, RA2. Is RA3 any good?

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:52 pm UTC

I never played red alert two, but I've been playing RA3 and its fun. I've finished the campaigns and found them generally quite interesting. The intermissions we deliberately over-acted and quite funny.
But I haven't found myself compelled to play skirmishes.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:00 pm UTC

Wow, I really am alone here. No, wait, I knew that already.

I loved Dune 2 and C&C. played those two to death. Then I fell in love with Close Combat. I liked C&C better because I liked the resource management angle, but seeing Close Combat 2 in action, I saw this future where the two would intermingle and their children would be delightful.

Then Red Alert came out. They'd promised all sorts of advances, but it was just prettier, with destructible bridges that weren't really all that cool. And the teams were balanced such that one side could appease the tank rushers, while another would serve the sneaky tactical bastards like me. That was heaps of fun, even if the Soviet tank rush was a bit cheap. At least cannon turrets and flak guns were cheaper.

Then there was Close combat 3. Awesome. 5 map scenarios, pushing back and forth... I so wanted the resource management and so forth, but I knew close combat was never going to do that. They were more into the battles, and that was understandable. Having a base 800m away from the enemy base doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Then T-Sun came out, but I was done. I'd seen what had happened during the great tank rush debate. People wanted quick and dirty 15 minute games and their prayers had been answered. I'll play the Settlers or something. But my good buddy (who'd introduced me to close combat) told me it was fantastic; I had to pick it up. The mags had given it 91%, too. Fine.
And I hated it. And he wound up hating it when we tried to play multiplayer too. And the mag wound up gagging "let's hope x isn't another T-Sun!" 3 months later. I wrote an angry letter about their hypocrisy and stopped reading, but meh.

I got RA2 for Christmas. Tank rushed my way through the campaigns and shelved it.

Generals I only played with friends at a LAN cafe. That was funny, mostly because the game just couldn't handle the way we liked to play RTS. I saw people playing it, running over GLA men with ore trucks in the first 5 minutes, rushing down with tier 1 and 2 units inside 15 minutes and so on. Meanwhile we'd go for 2 hours, I'd have strategic points secured with a network of tunnels and sam sites, making large borders with a mobile defense force. My buddy would have two to three lines of defense on choke points, it was impenetrable. We stalemated every time.

A game did come out that mixed C&C with Close combat. It was Sudden Strike, and I hate it to death for mixing the two aspects I hated about both games, rather than the two aspects I loved.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Vieto » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

I remember the dune game. I was a lot younger then, and thought that the thumper infantry repelled the worms (I hadn't read Dune then). It got boring quickly because all the units were, practically, the same.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:27 am UTC

Vieto wrote:I remember the dune game. I was a lot younger then, and thought that the thumper infantry repelled the worms (I hadn't read Dune then). It got boring quickly because all the units were, practically, the same.
You played the new-ish one. The original didn't have thumpers. And worked a lot better all up. There isn't even a normal version that works on windows (to my knowledge). Good old acorn computers.
Suddenly I feel old. Despite the fact I'm not.
It is also seen as one of the parents of what has now become the strategy genre.
Tiberium Wars was fun, but it just had a crappy AI and went from severely easy to hard and back again, sometimes in just one mission. And the difficulty setting seemed irrelevant.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:56 am UTC

Dune 2 was ridiculously simplistic. If I recall, the computer never actually rebuilt structures you destroyed, and always attacked from the same angle. There was also little to no distinction between damage types. Thus, the dominant strategy was to start producing a wall of the most powerful tanks you could muster on a rocky outcrop that the enemy would walk into. Send the damaged ones back for repairs and keep building until you have enough to push into the enemy base. So long as you got past the first line of defense and did some damage you were pretty much home and hosed. So... tank rush. RTS was born that way, baby.
That said, the fact that carryalls organised themselves to pick up/drop off harvesters and damaged units intelligently speaks wonders.

I mean... The game didn't even handle multiple unit selection and you had to click the "move" button then the spot, rather than the context sensitive clicks that just about every other RTS ever made has got.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:56 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:Dune 2 was ridiculously simplistic. If I recall, the computer never actually rebuilt structures you destroyed, and always attacked from the same angle. There was also little to no distinction between damage types. Thus, the dominant strategy was to start producing a wall of the most powerful tanks you could muster on a rocky outcrop that the enemy would walk into. Send the damaged ones back for repairs and keep building until you have enough to push into the enemy base. So long as you got past the first line of defense and did some damage you were pretty much home and hosed. So... tank rush. RTS was born that way, baby.
That said, the fact that carryalls organised themselves to pick up/drop off harvesters and damaged units intelligently speaks wonders.

I mean... The game didn't even handle multiple unit selection and you had to click the "move" button then the spot, rather than the context sensitive clicks that just about every other RTS ever made has got.
But that's the thing. It was before practically every other strategy game; the genre hardly existed beforehand; it made it popular.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about with the no rebuild thing, The damned computer would rebuild like a maniac; it would cheat too;
It could build faster than me.
It didn't have to worry about not having credits (it seemed to have an unlimited cash supply).
It can build over my units; e.g. I had an assault force attacking their base. By the time I broke through their defenses, I had two siege tanks and two rocket tanks left. I had them arranged such that the two siege tanks were next to each other protecting the rocket launchers just behind them. It built a silo on top of them, causing them to cease to exist.
That bastard.
Also, though it generally attacked in a straight line, once or twice it has actually attempted to flank me (I had the normal mass of defense in between their base and mine. For the entire match they just walked straight into it and got wiped out, until at one point they just started avoiding it. I don't know how or why, but it attacked me from the sides instead.
Though the carryall system was amazing.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Vieto » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:05 am UTC

I agree. The carry-all thing with the harvesters was awesome. I haven't seen any other game with such a system. Handy for escaping the worms also.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:08 am UTC

I just hated when the carryall got eaten too.
The ornithopters had pretty good AI too; they seem to understand the priority targets. Though I hated the fact that your base could often get riddled with rockets flayed from the enemies rocket turrets (across the entire freaking map) when said turrets fired at your ornithopters.
I always found it interesting as well that depending on the angle of attack sometimes the rocket turret would have longer range than the rocket launcher vehicle and vice versa.

On topic: I never played tiberian dawn, or in fact any of the command and conquer series except RA3, Tiberian sun and tiberium wars.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Haistfu » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:14 am UTC

I sincerely feel that CnC95 cannot be beaten.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:33 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:But that's the thing. It was before practically every other strategy game; the genre hardly existed beforehand; it made it popular.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about with the no rebuild thing, The damned computer would rebuild like a maniac; it would cheat too;
It could build faster than me.
It didn't have to worry about not having credits (it seemed to have an unlimited cash supply).
It can build over my units; e.g. I had an assault force attacking their base. By the time I broke through their defenses, I had two siege tanks and two rocket tanks left. I had them arranged such that the two siege tanks were next to each other protecting the rocket launchers just behind them. It built a silo on top of them, causing them to cease to exist.
That bastard.
Also, though it generally attacked in a straight line, once or twice it has actually attempted to flank me (I had the normal mass of defense in between their base and mine. For the entire match they just walked straight into it and got wiped out, until at one point they just started avoiding it. I don't know how or why, but it attacked me from the sides instead.
Though the carryall system was amazing.

Oh yeah, that's right. It'd always rebuild on the same spot, too, right? I'd semi-cheat by heavily damaging its silos, capturing, spending all the cash then destroying them. The computer would rebuild and get an instant full silo.
Though if you could actually do that you generally had the mission won anyway.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:35 am UTC

I always had the problem that unless I had a long line of infantry heading to an enemy building, it would manage to survive just long enough to prevent itself from being captured. Damn computer.
Also, this thread now appears to be about Dune II. I don't mind.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:28 am UTC

Just keep a siege tank or 2 combat tanks trained on it. They keep it at a fairly steady health.

I don't mind either. I've already established I dislike C&C pretty much ever since Westwood was bought out by EA.
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Draaglom » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:55 pm UTC

I bloody love Dune 2. However, it would often end in a stalemate for me - the AI doesn't get free credits either, and so the spice sands would dry out leaving you both stuck. I'd have a wall of rocket turrets and a few battered tanks, plus a harkonnen Palace - which you could repair for free, for some reason (but I think you could only do it in tiny increments) - and so I'd slowly slowly nibble at them with the hideously innaccurate Death Hand.

(BTW, they do attack from different angles if it's scripted. Particularly fighting the weak Atreides would entail timed and repeating caryall drops of fremen at the sides of your base.)

And never has a game unit struck such fear into me as Shai-Hulud.

On the C&C front, I've always wanted Yuri's Revenge but had to settle for vanilla.
Multiplayer I never enjoyed, though - it was just rushrushrush.

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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:45 pm UTC

Yeah, I think a few levels stalemated when I spent a bit too much and couldn't break through.
Harkonnen were the weakest race and hardest to play though. I mean, if you look at the differences (off the top of my head):

Atredies: Sonic Tanks. Really horrible when mixed with any other unit (Since they have a bad habit of destroying them) but you could get half a dozen of them and pretty much kill anything that comes along.
Fremen. Free troopers! That are slightly better than any other troopers! And can be deployed almost anywhere! Neat! Though by the time you get them they're really not very powerful. Still, better than nothing.

Ordos: Deviator. This is NOT useless, but you need to take advantage of a bug. Essentially, anything you deviate tends to annoyingly turn back to its own team just as it's about to attack a friendly. I even lost count of the times I tried to get a unit to drive over a spice bloom and it turned back 1 square away from the bloom. :evil: Solution? press the Attack button, but do not select a target. Once it turns back, click on what you want it to attack, and it shall, forevermore. The computer never gives it another order, so you can deviate quads and send them against rocket turrets and they'll hammer away, chewing up the enemy's credits and so forth on repairs.
Saboteur: Nonsense. I think 1 in 10 actually did something, and I can't remember what that was.
Raider trike: A nice advantage when you get them first, but largely useless thereafter.

Harkonnen: Devastator. Far too expensive. If I recall, Siege tanks are 800, Devastators are 1200. 3 Siege tanks will beat out 2 Devastators. The self destruct is just sad. And they're slooooooow.
Death Hand: I want to like it. I really want to like it. But it just lets me down so often. You can't even be sure it's not going to wipe out your attacking force when you're firing one to soften the enemy up before you actually move in.

Were the Harkonnen the only ones to get troopers? Or did they just get them earlier? Troopers were neat.
nightlina wrote:We get stick insects here.. they're pretty cool and stick-like.

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Draaglom
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Draaglom » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:41 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:Yeah, I think a few levels stalemated when I spent a bit too much and couldn't break through.
Harkonnen were the weakest race and hardest to play though.
I know, but I never cared. The baldy Harkonnen mentat was what sold them for me :P
InstinctSage wrote:Ordos: Deviator. This is NOT useless, but you need to take advantage of a bug. Essentially, anything you deviate tends to annoyingly turn back to its own team just as it's about to attack a friendly. I even lost count of the times I tried to get a unit to drive over a spice bloom and it turned back 1 square away from the bloom. :evil: Solution? press the Attack button, but do not select a target. Once it turns back, click on what you want it to attack, and it shall, forevermore. The computer never gives it another order, so you can deviate quads and send them against rocket turrets and they'll hammer away, chewing up the enemy's credits and so forth on repairs.
That bug was my favourite. It worked the opposite way, too - if one of your own units that you're commanding gets Deviated, you can do the same thing but temporarily.

InstinctSage wrote:Were the Harkonnen the only ones to get troopers? Or did they just get them earlier? Troopers were neat.
I think they might have been, I can't quite remember. (or they might have been the only ones to get 'squads' of them?)

But as with the ordos Stealth Raider, all the weaker units are useless once you have tanks. All you needed for a winning strategy was siege tanks and rocket tanks by the barrel full.

Did you ever play the remake, Dune 2000? It was actually quite nice, although behind other games of its time when it was released. I mean, it was the same as the original, but with RA1 era graphics, multiple unit selection and moderately better balance - the saboteurs get a temporary invisibility cloak, for example.

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InstinctSage
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby InstinctSage » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:22 am UTC

Yeah. John Rhys Davies was the Mentat for Atriedes. I still remember his speech from the start.

"So you've come to Arrakis for fame and glory, eh? Get loaded up on spice and have a good time? WRONG! You mine spice FOR THE DUKE. You claim territory FOR THE DUKE. You fight the Harkonnen menace FOR THE DUKE!"

I felt the music remixes diverted too far from the original score though. Some were okay, but it just wasn't the same.

I don't think I ever finished it though. I think I was playing on a sub par PC and in the later missions it chugged. When I got a newer PC I never went back to it.
nightlina wrote:We get stick insects here.. they're pretty cool and stick-like.

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Vieto
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Re: Command & Conquer

Postby Vieto » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:40 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:When I got a newer PC I never went back to it.


You have to play it... FOR THE DUKE!


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