EVE Online

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Toeofdoom
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:41 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Can anyone explain PI to me? I missed all the early talk about how it was supposed to work, and now the only discussion I can find about it on the forums are people whining about it. So I've been trying to work it out through trial and error.

So I bought a standard gas command station thing and somehow set it down on something that looks like Saturn. I was just randomly clicking, so I have no idea how I even managed to place it. So far so good. I also built a couple of extractors on decent looking resource spots, and connected them to the command station via links. I told each extractor to scan for deposits, and start mining, and route the resulting product to the command centre. But here's the thing. After the cycle completes, nothing happens. There's no product. I expected it to appear in the command centre, but it's not there. Any ideas?

The eve uni site is really helpful, but my best guess is that you forgot to click "confirm" or whatever it is for the routes or mining or something.

I'm personally setting up robotics production on a lowsec plasma planet, condensate production on a gas planet and tier 4 construction (possibly organic mortar applicators) on a barren planet. Already extracting silicon from a lava planet at fairly decent speed.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:39 am UTC

Actually it turns out I did everything right, the product wasn't showing up because of lag or something. When I logged in last night, everything was working properly.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:58 am UTC

I may change my plan, seeing tier 4 products jump in price directly in proportion to their proportion to production difficulty. Organic mortar applicators are some of the easier ones. Of course, I'm not sure it isn't just related to people building them out of seeded materials like robotics.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:14 pm UTC

At the moment, I'm happy enough simply to produce oxygen because I'm still just playing around. I'm in a 0.0 system where I can get a good price for it because people need it for their POS. I'll train the command centre upgrades skill to 5 at some point, then start building some serious infrastructure to make shiny things like nanopaste and what-have-you.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:18 pm UTC

So what kind of money is empire PI making in relation to time/money investment? I'm told a good colony costs about 20m to set up. I'm gathering i have to empty it once a day or so? how much will the stuff i make in that day be worth?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:17 pm UTC

How often you have to empty it really depends what you make - in hisec especially I wouldn't expect you have to pick it up every day. A launch pad can hold up to 10k m3. Anyway, I haven't really looked at empire yields closely, but I set up a colony in 0.0 for 3m or so today. It's putting out 5m every 24 hours at current jita buy orders.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:46 pm UTC

Is PI taking over production of things like Enriched Uranium, Coolants, Mechanical Parts, etc.?
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:09 pm UTC

It would seem so. I don't think NPC stations sell them any more.

I have now reconfigured my colony to make coolant. I'm making a grand total of 5 units per hour. It's not even enough to fuel a full tower. :lol:

In other news, going belt ratting is more fun when you do it in a hostile system. And lol-worthy when you don't even come under attack for it.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:10 pm UTC

I'm a fan of tanking a hostile fleet by being in combat with a Sleeper swarm.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Xaddak » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:42 am UTC

"Oh, no! Somebody is in our wormhole running one of our sites!"

Assign fighters from carriers to two frigates and warp them in.

Enjoy the extra 14 Guardians! Which are, what... 625 DPS each, somebody said? On top of whatever is already in the site? Your head asplode.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:30 pm UTC

I like dictor bubbling Hulks and Caldari Navy Ravens in wormholes with a 15 man roaming gang waiting on me.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

Oh yeah, people take some crazy expensive shit into wormholes and run sites with no backup. They forget that just because local is empty, it doesn't mean nobody is there.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:13 pm UTC

It was fun, the adrenaline got me though and I bubbled late, so we missed one of the hulks. But we got the Orca and two other Hulks that were in the belt. I think the CNR might have just been a regular Raven and I was just thinking of the Orca. Either way, it was a jackpot set of killmails, I'm just too lazy to dig them up.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Decker » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:35 am UTC

WHATTHEFUCK! I reprocessed all my tags! Since when could you do that?!? ARG!
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:30 pm UTC

Er, you can reprocess tags? That must be new o_o. Petition CCP and see what they say.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:46 pm UTC

I hope you got more than a few units of Trit out of them. I have a few junk tags lying around that won't sell for much so I'm going to try this later on and see what I get.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:30 pm UTC

You've always been able to process tags; you typically get a couple units of some higher end minerals for it. Back before there were really many useful places to turn them in, or they were only used for some missions, I'd just scrap all my tags from null sec and sell the mins.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:24 am UTC

ok! Started a new trial on Eve, determined to stick with it atleast 14 full days! going well so far, got my second Amarr ship from the tutorial :) and if i remember rightly i joined the xkcd channel too! :) names Naofa ingame.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:11 am UTC

I'm planning on starting up an Industrial Alt, working out the skill plan to get all the main industry and science skills for basic T1 production and throwing in some PI stuff as well. I expect to make a huge loss to start with but I'm going to work on it and it's hopefully going to show me another side of Eve, a very spreadsheet heavy side of eve but it should still be interesting.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:16 am UTC

I'm starting to try out some Amarr ships. It's not easy because the new system my alliance has moved to is extremely poorly stocked. As it stands, I cannot get more than 190 DPS out of my Apocalypse. 190. From a battleship. With an optimal of ~40km. Wut.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Purky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:30 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I'm starting to try out some Amarr ships. It's not easy because the new system my alliance has moved to is extremely poorly stocked. As it stands, I cannot get more than 190 DPS out of my Apocalypse. 190. From a battleship. With an optimal of ~40km. Wut.


Is it a fitting issue? The Apoc can dish out some serious hurt, especially if you sniper fit it with T2 tachyons. Be useful to see what fit you are using on that ship.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:34 am UTC

Best named guns of some variety. Pulse guns I think. I'm at work so I can't check their name. They were the only guns available. I'm using standard yellow crystals, again, the only ones available. And I'm using 7 of them instead of 8 because it's a requirement in my corp to have at least one remote repper on fleet ships. There are also no heatsinks for sale.

So yeah, pretty dire. But I expected a little more than 190. :|

Oh and I have large energy turret and amarr battleship both trained to 5, so that's 190 after a hefty damage bonus.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Purky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:44 am UTC

Explains a lot, with lasers the crystals really make a huge difference. If you can get your hands on some Multifrequency for close range work then you will see a significant increase in your dps. With lasers using T2 really does make a difference as with scorch ammo you do similar dps to multifreq but out to around 40-50km (with apoc you get the range bonus which really helps iirc) and if they get in close then you can switch to imperial navy multifreq. Having heat sinks is also really necessary although I do sympathise with you when it comes to having only a badly stocked market as I live in angel cartel space at the moment and due to them having stupid laser resists, no one bothers bringing out lasers/laser boats.

If you can get hold of it in your area then the Armageddon would prolly be a better bet for a pulse boat as you get the 7 turret slots and a utility high, plus you can fit a real nice tank to it and still have 125m3/125mB/s for using drones. Plus it is so cheap that you can lose them without really caring, I have seen them in places selling for only slightly more than a harbinger.

Edit: more for less :p
Last edited by Purky on Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:51 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:24 pm UTC

i have a question, whats the furthest you guys have ever scored a kill from? My lasers at the moment are just 5k for optimal range (well, just below but yeah)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:36 pm UTC

I flew Minmatar, which gets some of the biggest falloff in the game. Most sniper engagements I fought were in Battleships and usually between 150-180km. I typically had a 200km range when my falloff was added w/ T2 large guns and t2 long range ammo, but the damage isn't that great from that far out. So 150-180km is a safe answer to your question for me. I don't have an exact number. Sniper HAC fights were always in the 100-110km-ish range.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Purky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:55 pm UTC

I have a snipe fit apoc with a range of around 205km but I have yet to use it in anger :p My longest range kill is probably around 80km in a sniper zealot.
I am tempted to train up my caldari alt to use T2 rails as the Eagle and Rokh have insane snipe range, I think up to around 150km with the Eagle, 220km+ for the Rokh. Just a shame that rail guns are kinda sucky at the moment :(

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:57 pm UTC

205KM!? wow. o.o Thats.... an epic scope! he was me thinking in my tiny ship 5km was rather far :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:06 pm UTC

I had my sniperthron up to 189km optimal last week. The same setup on a rokh would have been 236km.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:08 pm UTC

Eagle DPS was pretty terrible compared to the Zealot and the Munnin for sniper HACs when I played. If they haven't given any love to hybrid turrets and Caldari boats, it's probably still that way.

If you're in a frigate without a lot of skill, using t1 guns, yeah you're gonna be a tiny blip when it comes to range. It's only once you get into t2 guns and ammunition that you really start to get some impressive ranges. You can get away with T1 guns on Remote Repping Battleships and still hit the 100-120km range pretty easily for mid-range engagements, but to hit the big ranges you'll need the T2 Large guns. The one major exception to that is a Rokh fit with Meta 4 guns. Those guns were always retardedly expensive though and I wouldn't recommend that.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Purky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:09 pm UTC

T2 beam lasers really do make the difference with sniping. Using gleam crystals you have +80% to your optimal range (although you get a huge tracking penalty of -75% iirc) plus the apoc gets a 7.5% optimal range bonus per level of amarr battleship, also you get +25% optimal from having sharpshooter at 5 and +25% falloff for having trajectory analysis at 5. Throw in a couple of tracking computers with optimal range scripts and some sensor boosters to give you the targeting range you need and you are laughing. Only problem is that due to the number of slots you need to dedicate to these mods, plus the heat sinks that you need to make your damage worthwhile, you are usually pretty much paper thin.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:16 pm UTC

Yes, it's the old glass cannon setup. Very useful in big battles where it doesn't matter how much tank you have - no matter how well tanked you are, it takes the enemy longer to lock you than it does to kill you.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:17 pm UTC

RR Pulse Apocs are some of the nastiest things I've ever seen. About 90km range with close range ammo, but absolutely retarded DPS. We brought out about 6 of these one time to support our BC/HAC gang to engage another (bigger) HAC gang and just melted them into a big pile of goo. It was awesome.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:36 pm UTC

Haha wow sounds awesome :D. urgh i cant wait to get home, i set my skill training up so iit finished a bit before work, i've trained analytical mind and.. another one i've forgotten up, aswell as leaving Amarr (something) level 3 and then training missile lunachers up, right now what i want is that Covert Ops ship! :lol:
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:51 pm UTC

Oh to be training from the start again.

If I've offered one person this advice, I've offered it a thousand times. I hope it's helpful to you.

4 rules to live by:
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Focus focus focus.
There's a difference between being able to fly a ship and being able to pilot a ship.
If you can't fit the ship properly, fly something less expensive.

If there's one mistake I see a lot of new people make, it's that they spread out a lot of skill points to different weapon types without looking at the ships that race flies. Or they decide to take several racial ship types that don't synergize well to 4 or 5. Or they decide they want to mine, research, fly battleships, and build cruisers. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes for a really inefficient character. Do what's fun for you, but if you want to be competative, it's important to focus and plan.

If you want to PVP, a good route to train for is Frigates -> T2 small guns -> Interceptors -> Battlecruisers -> T2 medium guns. You'll learn a lot of the ropes of pvp without spending a fortunate in ISK on ships and modules. Get your learning skills to respectable levels, get your Engineering, Navigation and Electronic skills up so you can use the correct T2 mods, and then you'll have a foundation with which you can fly the bigger, stronger, more expensive and more fun T2 ships like Recons, HACs, etc.
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Cynical Idealist » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:54 pm UTC

Purky wrote:I have a snipe fit apoc with a range of around 205km but I have yet to use it in anger :p My longest range kill is probably around 80km in a sniper zealot.
I am tempted to train up my caldari alt to use T2 rails as the Eagle and Rokh have insane snipe range, I think up to around 150km with the Eagle, 220km+ for the Rokh. Just a shame that rail guns are kinda sucky at the moment :(

You can push the Eagle out to 249 km (which is the hard cap on targeting range), although it'll leave it without a tank, as you'd be using every mid on range-boosting modules. The Rokh can hit 249 km with ease (a pair of range-scripted sensor boosters and a tracking enhancer (or range-scripted tracking comp) will get it 249 km targeting and put 249 km within falloff using spike, and if you make that a pair of tracking enhancers 249km is actually within optimal).
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:57 pm UTC

Well, the idea of decloaking and then unloading an ungodly amount of missiles on something really appeals to me i don't know why :p. As for the Amarr i know they use alot of lasers, mostly, so far i only brought missile operation to level 1 which was a measly 10mins, as far as larger planning goes i havn't really looked, by the looks of it theres alot of things i'd need to train

(and yes, PVP is what im really aiming for at the moment but i dont think my executioner will do much at the moment ;) )
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Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:00 pm UTC

You'll learn so much about pvp if you train for a t2 fit Malediction or Crusader. I can't emphasize that enough. Of course that's mostly applicable to 0.0 pvp. Find a pvp corp that caters to newer players and jump in. Look for one that will give you frigates and modules to blow up.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Purky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:03 pm UTC

Good call Mishrak, I look at every ship that I take out of the hangar as a ship that I WILL lose, just a question of how and when (and how embarrassingly).

My usual rule is that I won't train for a ship until I can fully T2 fit it, as I figure there isn't much point taking a ship out in pvp unless you can fly it effectively.
I'm currently training for a Curse and Pilgrim, Recons 5 is a pain...

Veora, I'd recommend training up lasers rather than missiles and going for a Punisher (Amarr T1 frigate) which is, imo, one of the most fun ships in the game. Don't underestimate frigates in pvp, Rifters, Punishers, Incursuseseses (Incursi?) are amazing little ships and are so fun for someone starting out in pvp. And if you are doubting how good a frigate gang can be, just take a look at the killboard for the Agony Unleashed pvp basic class, on the roam I was on with them we took down a Thanatos (gallente carrier worth around 700mill for the hull alone). Plus losing a frigate is no big deal, if you run some missions with friends in game you can make enough for a months worth of frigate-based pvp funsies in a few hours.

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Re: EVE Online

Postby Veora » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:11 pm UTC

Purky wrote:Veora, I'd recommend training up lasers rather than missiles and going for a Punisher (Amarr T1 frigate) which is, imo, one of the most fun ships in the game. Don't underestimate frigates in pvp, Rifters, Punishers, Incursuseseses (Incursi?) are amazing little ships and are so fun for someone starting out in pvp. And if you are doubting how good a frigate gang can be, just take a look at the killboard for the Agony Unleashed pvp basic class, on the roam I was on with them we took down a Thanatos (gallente carrier worth around 700mill for the hull alone). Plus losing a frigate is no big deal, if you run some missions with friends in game you can make enough for a months worth of frigate-based pvp funsies in a few hours.

Ok! Well, i should have frigate level 3 when i get back home, (atleast, i think that was what i was training) so then i can pick up anything else im missing tonight hopefully :)

i was actually doubting how usefull the tiny little ships might be, especially when somone can snipe from 200KM apparently! :p

Mishrak wrote:You'll learn so much about pvp if you train for a t2 fit Malediction or Crusader. I can't emphasize that enough. Of course that's mostly applicable to 0.0 pvp. Find a pvp corp that caters to newer players and jump in. Look for one that will give you frigates and modules to blow up.


If i focus into lasers then that Crusader looks like a damn fine choice :) not sure how good i would be in a pvp corp. i have troubles looting and just flying my ship, who knows how good ill be under pressure!

is there an xkcd channel btw? I tried joining it last night and got put into one, wasn't sure if it was the right one :)
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Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:15 pm UTC

Veora wrote:is there an xkcd channel btw? I tried joining it last night and got put into one, wasn't sure if it was the right one :)


There is only one xkcd channel so it's likely the right one.

Hopefully the servers will be back up soon. Extended downtimes are very useful but it gets annoying when I have an early finish from work (The world cup is useful at times) and I can't do much. Guess I'm going to have to do some more reading on what I need for production stuff and PI stuff.


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