EVE Online

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:35 am UTC

I dunno about that. Most sniper hac engagements are 100-110km, which the Munnin can do quite effectively. You can get 98+34ish pretty easily. You obviously don't engage another sniper fleet with it, and it's better to use shield versions over armor versions, with scimmie logistics. Eagle is a good sniper hac at that range too, but the Muninn is better. You should never be on the field long enough to get tackled by an inty. Dramiel is probably the most dangerous, but even overloaded, if your fleet is aligned out, you should be able to move before it happens. You also should be able to 1 or 2 shot any inty that's stupid enough to burn to you at anything short of a perfect angle. Having some inties and dictors is pretty important too.

I'm talking 20-40 man gangs here though. Bigger fleets are a different ball game altogether, and I wouldn't run a huge sniper hac fleet in the current lag era. We could debate fits and tactics, which I don't want to do, but both ships are pretty nice either way.

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:31 pm UTC

Sure, the Muninn can do all that, but I've found that in virtually any situation, the Muninn is outclassed by either the Zealot or the Eagle. After the proj changes, it's kinda useful for the alpha, but in all honesty, and speaking as a pilot who literally flies nothing besides minmatar cruiser and frigate hulls (and for 3 years), I only use the muninn for theme/joke fleets. One time I tried to get enough muninns to alpha battlecruisers for giggles, but that's the most useful thing I've ever done with it, I'm pretty sure.
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Wyvern
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:31 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Contact:

Re: EVE Online

Postby Wyvern » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:39 pm UTC

Training Amaar ships.

Which means I think I'll most likely be going for the Curse or the Pilgrim.

Worth trying to get already? I've only got about 3.5M sp. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, I dunno. It's till gonna be a month or two before I can actually fly any of the things. (Whereas I could fly battleships in just a couple days. The thing deterring me form that is also having to train fittings for the large ships.)

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:05 pm UTC

Don't think in terms of how long it'll take you to fly it, think in terms of how long it'll take you to fly it well. Plug a fit you like into EFT and work out how long it'll take you to be able to use that fit. Look at the "change affecting skills" submenu and see what skills affect each mod and add getting them to IV or V to your training plan. Don't forget to right click on the empty space to see what skills affect the ship in general. You'll want them at IV or V too.

Recons aren't particularly cheap, so if you're gonna take one out make sure you can use it right.
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

Wyvern wrote:Training Amaar ships.

Which means I think I'll most likely be going for the Curse or the Pilgrim.

Worth trying to get already? I've only got about 3.5M sp. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, I dunno. It's till gonna be a month or two before I can actually fly any of the things. (Whereas I could fly battleships in just a couple days. The thing deterring me form that is also having to train fittings for the large ships.)


Again, I'd suggest seriously considering the Zealot. But above and beyond that, I'd like to echo spambot: there's a huge difference between getting in a ship and undocking, vs getting in a ship and flying it well. In particular for recons, Recon V often needed to make some fits work. HAC V less so. Keep that sort of thing in mind. Cost is also a factor. I haven't had to buy either for some time, but for awhile there, recons were approaching 90m and hacs were over 115. Might want to stick with 'saders and arbitrators for now..
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:26 pm UTC

Wyvern wrote:Training Amaar ships.

Which means I think I'll most likely be going for the Curse or the Pilgrim.

Worth trying to get already? I've only got about 3.5M sp. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, I dunno. It's till gonna be a month or two before I can actually fly any of the things. (Whereas I could fly battleships in just a couple days. The thing deterring me form that is also having to train fittings for the large ships.)


T2 ships are pretty skill intensive. You want good engineering, good navigation, good drone skills, good gunnery skills. They're expensive ships for most people (~100m+ for the hull) and if you don't have good skills, you won't be able to fly them very effectively.

Alasseo and Spambot make a very good point. I like to phrase it like this: There's a big difference between being able to fly a ship and being able to pilot a ship. Being able to pilot a ship means fitting it correctly for its intended purpose and having the skillset as a player (not skill points) and experience to fly it properly so it doesn't diaf in a bad fit right out of the gate.

If you want to get into pvp, seriously, I would recommend the following path: Interceptor -> Battlecruiser w/T2 guns -> T2 fit Battleship or T2 fit HAC.
The Malediction and the Crusader are excellent ships and you'll have fun with them for your entire pvp career probably. The Harbinger is one of the best BCs in the game, especially if you can fit T2 Medium guns on it. Of course after that point, you'll probably have enough experience to know what you want to fly in a pvp setting and can train accordingly.

Look me up in the xkcd channel sometime and I'll be glad to help with a skill plan or what support skills are important. xMishrak (some bugger already took the name when I made it).

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:36 pm UTC

Just thought I'd post a narcissistic update on me and EVE. This was me, scared and confused, a month ago:

Swivelguy wrote:I think maybe I should have been more clear: I never actually went to 0.0. I listened to what they say: "don't fly what you can't afford to lose," and decided I didn't want to fly tiny ships which I had, in my mind, progressed out of (pvm-wise at least), in nullsec.

I understand that flying a frig can be fun in pvp, and I would totally do that, and scout or jam or whatever. But I didn't want to have to step down my ship size in pvm in order to be able to afford to lose them. As I understood it, I was making good ISK in highsec in a BC, and wouldn't be able to make as much in 0.0 in a cruiser, so why even go there?

Are you saying that I could survive in pvm in a BC in 0.0, and just run away to safe spots to keep my ship alive? Given the interruptions provided by people trying to blow you up, is it faster overall to make ISK doing that than doing missions in high sec?

I saw pvp as simply a moneysink (but a fun one), to be funded by (unfun, grindy) pvm activities. Is that generally the case?


I ended up not going to 0.0, but rather joining a wormhole corporation. I already had scanning skills, and the environment sounded more attractive than 0.0 from what I'd heard. We raid our static C4 for anomalies, and acting as scout/salvager for that sort of gang, it didn't take me long at all to comfortably afford to fly (and lose) Ravens. Anyway, I love it out here.

Currently training up for a CovOps, after which I'll probably skip T2 cruisers for now and go straight for the Tengu - which is faster to train for than recons, logis, or HACs anyway.

I'm Daesis Wrack, btw, if you see me in the XKCD channel.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:42 pm UTC

The Tengu isn't that much different than training for a T2 Cruiser.

Required Skills

Taking all the Subsystems to 4 is pretty easy, since they're rank 1 skills, but you better make sure you can fit it out properly. They're not as overpriced as they used to be, but it's still a good 500-700 mil for a respectable fit (non-complex). You'll want most or all of the same support skills you'd use for a Recon/HAC, outside of specialized Remote Rep/ECM skills.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:48 am UTC

I wouldn't suggest using a t3 as a remote rep platform, but it certainly can be done.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
FoS
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:46 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby FoS » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:48 pm UTC

I've just relocated all my shit to Gallente space so I can start earning Federation LP's.
I'm Minmatar so I've trained my Rifter and BC skills really high but I decided I much preferred Gallente Battleships so I've trained up to fly a decent Megathron but since I'm doing Level 1 missions at the moment my trusty Wolf is getting some much deserved love.

It's funny doing the missions where they tell you to run away from the overwhelming odds and instead I just wipe out everything.

Looking for a corp thats not dead though. I joined the Hulkageddon Orphanage and did some ganking but Hulkageddons over and now there is nothing happening, especially after we left Hydra Reloaded.
"...working as intended"
Oomkin Druid - Sylvanas EU

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:59 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I wouldn't suggest using a t3 as a remote rep platform, but it certainly can be done.


Well, why not? What would be better that isn't battleship-heavy?
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:04 pm UTC

Logistics cruisers? Or a carrier, i guess, but you're probably not wanting something that bulky.
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 8015
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:05 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I wouldn't suggest using a t3 as a remote rep platform, but it certainly can be done.


Well, why not? What would be better that isn't battleship-heavy?


There are dedicated logistics cruisers.
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:12 pm UTC

The best RR boats (that aren't logistics/carriers) really are armor tanked battleships, because they get the ability to fit a lot of tank, a heavy/med cap booster, and some firepower.

You could support your guys with a logistics cruiser also. Basilisk is a great shield repper.

T3 ships are really good at some niche roles, as well as a pretty good pseudo command ship w/ gang links. I'm not super familiar with them, but I know they don't get any subsystems that bonus RR, at least the Tengu doesn't.


Edit:
I stand corrected, it does get one w/ bonuses to shield transporters.

Personally I'd use the Tengu for a super pimped out tank w/ complex mods, or a gang link boat.

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:31 pm UTC

Logistics cruisers are all fine and good, but 1 or 2 of those is plenty in the fleet. Someone needs to bring the damage. Our approach has been to just bring damage ships and maybe 1 Basilisk and have everyone fit 1 rep (2 on battleships). The other real option might be command ships, which are cheaper than T3 but certainly harder to train for (then again, all the prerequisites are useful in their own right).
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:36 pm UTC

Then just bring a damage boat that doesn't do any RR. A torp raven is pretty good if you can get up close and personal and use a target painter. Esp. if you can use T2 torps, otherwise it might not be as good. If you're facing more cruiser/BC or smaller ships and less battleships overall, you could fit a T2 HML drake, as those do pretty good DPS.

I'm assuming you're just able to fly Caldari ships though. If you can use T2 large hybrids, you could go all out and fit a blaster rokh and melt whatever is inside ~20km, but that's pretty extreme.

The Raven is probably one of the best and easiest to train for PVE ships in the game. T1 Cruises are effective, you can throw on 3x BCS for a nice boost in damage, and you can fit a very solid tank so it doesn't diaf all the time. You can also fit a nice assortment of drones in there. It's my understanding that sleeper rats eat drones for breakfast though.

A torp Golem is one of the best, if not the best, sub capital Caldari ships at doing PVE damage. That one is a bear to train for (Torp 5, BS 5, AWU5, EGU 5, etc) though [training for it now].

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:57 pm UTC

Ravens and Golems are obvious*. The point of this discussion is to find good ships that aren't BS-sized (we're putting them through wormholes). And perhaps to direct my training for October-December or so ;). So, commandships versus T3, go!

My best ideas (just messing around with "All skills V" in EFT and limiting to T2 fits):

Tengu: 473 DPS out to 115 km, 7500 shield with 87% avg resist, goes 213 m/s, 605 with AB on, runs meta 4 rep almost stable with AB on.

Spoiler:
[Tengu, C4 RR - 5 launcher]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Damage Control II

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Nighthawk: 473 DPS (plus drones) out to 75 km (kinda short), 9300 shield with 81% avg resist, goes 175 m/s, runs meta 4 rep almost stable

Spoiler:
[Nighthawk, C4 RR]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5


The Tengu wins (with the exception of lacking drones), as we'd expect of a ship that costs twice as much.

*For sleepers, you have to use cruises. By the time you get a sleeper battleship in torp range, you could have killed it with cruises.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:07 pm UTC

http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/view ... hp?t=26395 or http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopi ... 83&start=0 for fitting ideas on the Tengu. Find one there that works for you. However, don't passive tank it. Passive tank something less expensive. Active tank is much, much, much better on a Tengu. Also, you probably don't need to use T2 rigs honestly. Especially cap rigs. Get your Engineering skills up, use a CC4 or CC8 hardwiring for more cap recharge and use more productive fittings.

You'll probably get more useage out of the Tengu than the Nighthawk. You can make the Tengu unprobable too, which is a very nice bonus when you're in a wormhole, because you're basically impossible to find unless they accidentally land on you.

@ Torps. At least with the Golem, and proper skills (4's, not 5's), and riggings, you can effectively get your Torp Range out to 54-60km w/ T2 Javelin Torps. Still a crapton of dps with them too. Just FYI.
Last edited by Mishrak on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:17 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:15 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:You can make the Tengu unprobable too, which is a very nice bonus when you're in a wormhole, because you're basically impossible to find unless they accidentally land on you.


Um, unless you're in an anomaly, with a raven, 2 domis, a maelstrom, and a cloud of drones. But yes, the ability to do that is handy.

I will maintain my plan to train for the Tengu after covert ops. After that, probably Recons. With the exception of 13 days of leadership skills, all of the prereqs for the nighthawk are stuff I'll end up getting anyway (BC 5, AF 4, HAC 4, etc.), so I may try one out eventually.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:16 pm UTC

Yeah, totally. I was thinking more about if you're just traveling, maybe using it to scan something down or whatever, and you don't want to use your cov ops. Really just throwing that idea out there. I realize with a big group, you won't be able to hide.

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:21 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote: You can make the Tengu unprobable too, which is a very nice bonus when you're in a wormhole, because you're basically impossible to find unless they accidentally land on you.


The anomaly you're in isn't unprobeable, and with the change to WHs to lower the number of sigs, it makes it pretty trivial to use the Dscanner to figure out which one you're in. Doesn't matter if you're solo or not.
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=26395 or http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopi ... 83&start=0 for fitting ideas on the Tengu. Find one there that works for you. However, don't passive tank it. Passive tank something less expensive. Active tank is much, much, much better on a Tengu. Also, you probably don't need to use T2 rigs honestly. Especially cap rigs. Get your Engineering skills up, use a CC4 or CC8 hardwiring for more cap recharge and use more productive fittings.


Eh, I still think you're misinterpreting the fitting. My tank is the fleet remote repping me. My objectives are to 1. deal damage, and 2. contribute to aforementioned spider tanking. The corp rule/guideline is to be able to run 1 remote rep stably, and at least fit a 2nd (to handle incoming damage spikes) if you are a battleship or marauder. I do these things just fine now in my Raven, but we want as many people as possible to move to smaller ships to save on WH mass. Hence, the spider-tanking Tengu.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:32 pm UTC

Yeah, but the point is that if someone comes in and drops combat probes, they won't find you right away. They will have to actually scan down the anomoly and use the directional scanner to find you, which takes longer. Hopefully by then, your spidey sense is tingling and you can gtfo, or they're dumb enough to not be in a cloaky prober, get on d-scan, and you can escape. Also you can use it to GTFO to a safe spot and they won't be able to find you.

I realize the more practical use of this is in low sec or nullsec, but it's still a viable strategy in w-space.

@ Swivelguy: Even so, spend some time reading SHC, or ask on their forum. Chances are people have tried your idea for the Tengu and either have a successful method to fit it, or an alternative that's better, or a good reason why that's not a practical way to fit a Tengu. Explain your idea, post your reasoning, and generally they're pretty open minded. I would read about it first though. While it may be a solid fit, it may be really stretching the ability of the ship that could be done with something better (I'm not saying it is or isn't, I don't honestly know).

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:05 pm UTC

How do you make a Tengu unprobable? Do you mean fit a cloak?

Ideally, I wouldn't ever want to fly in a fleet that had RR on T3. They simply lose too much tank/gank in the process of trying to make it work to be justifiable. A single Logi adds something like 5-6x the repping power (and the range, oh lordamercy that range is divine) that an already awkwardly fit T3 could provide.

Also, the ganglink bonus provided by T3 is superior to the ganglink bonus provided by command ships; you just can't fit 3x ganglinks, and fitting 2x means you've basically tied up all your CPU.

All told, I'm not convinced that the T3 ships are able to fill those niche roles well. They bring mind boggling dps and tankability, but I wouldn't want them as my fleets ECM, Logistics, or ganglink provider. There are already significantly better (and more importantly, cheaper) ships for those roles.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:How do you make a Tengu unprobable? Do you mean fit a cloak?


No I mean this: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1119841/page/1 If you get your sensor strength high enough (using ECCM), you can't be probed down.

http://scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopi ... 3172917491

Also, I agree with your assessment of T3's.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:26 am UTC

Whoa, I wasn't even aware of that. I'm not sure how useful that is, but it'd certainly make for some interesting tactics, at least some pretty neat surprises. Like hull tanking, neat and silly, but not something you want to/can rely on maybe?
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 8015
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:19 am UTC

Hold on just a second. What does your sensor strength have to do with the ease of other people probing you? Sensor strength just makes it harder for someone to ECM you. How the frig can that possibly make you harder to probe out?
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:42 am UTC

Unless the link is lying:
Mishrak wrote:No I mean this: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1119841/page/1 If you get your sensor strength high enough (using ECCM), you can't be probed down.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 8015
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:53 am UTC

Yes that link is what prompted my question. It makes no sense.
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:57 am UTC

I've never heard of that either. I don't want to appear condescending here; what doesn't make sense? That that could be true or the numbers they're putting forth?
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 8015
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:07 am UTC

It doesn't make sense because I can't see how having stronger sensors would make you present a smaller target to probes. ECCMs should only have an effect on your sensors, not the sensors of enemy probes. In fact, because your sensors are presumably emitting more energy, it should, if anything, make you easier to find.
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

User avatar
Alasseo
Posts: 526
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:25 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Alasseo » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:52 am UTC

SlyReaper, you're asking for Eve game mechanics to make sense. You know, the ones where you can fire through solid structures? :p Just accept and move on.

T3 RR: if everyone you need to RR is right next to you it's fine. They just can't replace logis. PvE with a bunch of long range ships is fine. PvP, I'd only do it in some sort of theme fleet, or with bait logi, and even then, I'd only do it with people who have quite a bit of experience and practiced with it.

Unprobeable within anomalies: If whoever is probing you down isn't incompetent, they'll have you dscanned to under .5au before they ever drop probes. When they do, if you're in a combat anomaly, they don't even have to scoop and then deploy core probes, you're found. If you are, they pull, drop cores, and it takes about 30 seconds longer to ind you than if you weren't. A good prober will find you in under a minute thirty, even unprobable and in a not straight-combat anomaly, and that's being real generous.
Eruantale wrote:(I did... I've always wanted to get a Dudley Do-right out of a vending machine)

User avatar
Swivelguy
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:11 pm UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby Swivelguy » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:59 am UTC

Yeah, unprobable-ness is really only useful for doing missions in low- or null-sec - or in highsec if you really hate ninja salvagers.
EVE Online: Daesis Wrack
Starcraft 2 (US): CosmicOsmo #465
Anarchy Online (RK2): Azzamis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: EVE Online

Postby Mishrak » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:25 pm UTC

One interesting thing about being unprobable is you can literally be on the grid, someone can deploy probes, they can even see you, but they can't scan you down to warp to you, so they'll have to get in a manual warp-in if they want to warp to you. I'll admit I've never done it myself, but I've read about it, and seen some interesting fleet concept ideas (within my current alliance, and previous alliance) based around it. The hardest part about deploying that type of set-up in a fleet engagement is if you use drones or if one single person isn't fit properly, it compromises everything and you can be scanned down.

That' s one reason a lot of fleet warfare has moved away from sniper battleships and onto armor HACs. Besides the terribad fleet battle lag and stealth bomber gangs, it's so easy to probe down now, if the sniper BS's are on grid for more than 30 seconds, a cov ops w/ good skills and a squad of dictors can warp those dictors onto a BS fleet in no time at all and it's game over.

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:36 pm UTC

Best Kill Mail Ever

Our alliance CEO is on holiday atm and everyone is wanting to be offline when he sees this.

User avatar
SlyReaper
inflatable
Posts: 8015
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:09 pm UTC
Location: Bristol, Old Blighty

Re: EVE Online

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:38 pm UTC

74 plexes.

Holy shit. The pilot of that kestrel should just commit seppuku and be done with it. :lol:
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

halbarad
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

Re: EVE Online

Postby halbarad » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:52 pm UTC

Yeah, we are in a war and probably won't be out of it for a long time now.

Paranoid__Android
Posts: 516
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:54 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: EVE Online

Postby Paranoid__Android » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:53 pm UTC

hey, I was considering getting into this game, before I commit could I ask a few questions about it...

firstly is it worth the money? it's no small investment. also on a related note I heard mentioned that you can swap ingame money for gametime, is this economical or just a waste of time?

secondly how much time would I have to invest to be good at the game? will I have to be constantly online micromanaging every little detail? I'm currently about to head into the second year of my physics degree so I'm not sure how much disposable time I'll have.

I know you can download the demo but I'm far too lazy for that :roll:

thanks
The Great Hippo wrote:Paranoid__Android,
... truly, you are a champion among champions. ...

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: EVE Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:08 am UTC

Stay away.

If you don't have the game interest to read some stuff or ask pointed questions, let alone try the free trial, I don't think Eve is likely the right game for you.
EDIT: The micromanagement is, as with all games, as involved as you want it to be. You can spend an hour a day on logistics and still have work left to do. Or, you can play more casually.

SlyReaper wrote:74 plexes.

Holy shit. The pilot of that kestrel should just commit seppuku and be done with it. :lol:

Just want to make sure I'm reading that right... Yikes... I thought PLEX's were changed so they could be given without having to ever leave station?
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

Paranoid__Android
Posts: 516
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:54 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: EVE Online

Postby Paranoid__Android » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:30 am UTC

The only reason I haven't donwloaded the trial is my internet at the moment is really slow. I'll give the demo a try when I get to uni in a few weeks.

thanks
The Great Hippo wrote:Paranoid__Android,
... truly, you are a champion among champions. ...


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests