My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

Which era was the best?

red/blue/yellow
151
41%
gold/silver/crystal
115
31%
ruby/sapphire/emerald/leafgreen/firered
37
10%
Diamond/pearl
26
7%
Otter/Duck
41
11%
 
Total votes: 370

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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue May 17, 2016 4:23 pm UTC

Venusaur has Growth yo, if you want to go in that direction. +Special it up and then Razor Leaf everybody.

But honestly, Leech Seed / Toxic basically owns the entire game. Have you ever tried it? With 100 Special, Venusaur wasn't actually losing vs Lorelli in my experience. Venusaur tanks everything, and Leech Seed + Toxic combo keeps his HP at maximum the whole time. As long as Lorelli doesn't kill Venusaur in one hit, the Leech Seed / Toxic inevitably kills opponents first.

Plus, use Zapdos for Lorelli. I mean, your Charizard isn't taking those Surfs from Lapras (while Venusaur's superior tank allows Venusaur to take the Ice Beams easily)
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Jorpho » Tue May 17, 2016 5:14 pm UTC

Oh, gee, people are posting here again.

So, apparently there were codes for special ability Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres distributed in the May 2016 Pokemon newsletter – only a lot of people never received theirs and there is much bitterness. I don't suppose anyone here subscribed to the newsletter isn't using their codes? Because I would like to have them. :D

Don't forget to check the online Mystery Gift to get a Shiny Xerneas at the moment. The Shiny Yvetal giveaway starts on the 20th.

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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:48 pm UTC

I love Sandslash!

Sandslash even has an awesome "Alola Form" in the new game: https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/7 ... wsrc%5Etfw

And then... its Ice / Steel. Holy shit that's bad. 4x weak to Fire and 4x weak to Fighting... ah well, I'll find a use of it. I've been dreaming of using Sandslash competitively since... well... Red/Blue.

Offensively, Ice/Steel might be workable. But defensively, its not tanking anything. Kills Dragons, Flyers, Grass (lol Grass/Dragon Exeggutor). But every dragon either knows Earthquake or Fire Blast to take care of Steel types. Ice/Steel doesn't stop the #1 flying threat (Talonflame's Flare Blitz) and really switches in only on Ice attacks. (Bolt/Beam is neutral / 4x resisted).
Last edited by KnightExemplar on Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:10 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Jorpho » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:08 pm UTC

Apparently Pokemon Global Link is getting shut off in October, which means I'll probably have to finish Pokemon Y if I want to spend all my Pokemiles.

At least Wonder Trade will still work.

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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby cyanyoshi » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:27 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I love Sandslash!

Sandslash even has an awesome "Alola Form" in the new game: https://twitter.com/SerebiiNet/status/7 ... wsrc%5Etfw

And then... its Ice / Steel. Holy shit that's bad. 4x weak to Fire and 4x weak to Fighting... ah well, I'll find a use of it. I've been dreaming of using Sandslash competitively since... well... Red/Blue.

Offensively, Ice/Steel might be workable. But defensively, its not tanking anything. Kills Dragons, Flyers, Grass (lol Grass/Dragon Exeggutor). But every dragon either knows Earthquake or Fire Blast to take care of Steel types. Ice/Steel doesn't stop the #1 flying threat (Talonflame's Flare Blitz) and really switches in only on Ice attacks. (Bolt/Beam is neutral / 4x resisted).

I lost it when they revealed its typing as Ice/Steel. Such a missed opportunity, though it's a bit funny how SANDslash now has nothing to do with sand.

Also, how the heck is Alola Vulpix going to evolve? Can you imagine an Ice-type evolving with a Fire Stone? Place your bets now!

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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:39 pm UTC

Reported an issue with saving in locations with a PC. Affects Pokemon Centers and the Battle Tree (a post-game location). Does not always occur. Advises against saving there, however.

Grabbed a Munchlax with Snorlium Z from Mystery Gift. Lasts until January 11, supposedly.

Enjoys greater wealth in Alola, apparently. Burned Full Restores twice so far (levels 9 and 15). (Current progress: Before the first trial on the second island.)

Turned off the Experience Share. Learned from X and Y.

Most irritating fight so far: Found a Petilil. Wanted to catch it. Weakened it. Called for help. Cannot throw a Pokeball with two enemy Pokemon present. Missed three consecutive Fire Fangs (5% miss chance each) on the newcomer. Waited through Sleep Powder. Killed one. Yelled for another friend successively. Switched out twice due to Leech Seed. Eventually caught it. Could have been nastier too. Used Growth at least four times. Only knew Absorb, fortunately. Dealt less than Leech Seed.

Mild spoiler about technical machines and the normal Z-move. Pertains to Melemele Island (the initial one).
Spoiler:
Brick Break and Acrobatics already? Acknowledges strong attacks from Normalium Z (100 power attack from Scratch). Seems too good, nevertheless.


Was anyone else reminded of Toon Link? (Spoilered for gifs.)
Spoiler:
Pokemon Hau Happy.gif
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Toon Link Happy.gif
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:46 pm UTC

cyanyoshi wrote:Also, how the heck is Alola Vulpix going to evolve? Can you imagine an Ice-type evolving with a Fire Stone? Place your bets now!


Looks like its an Ice Stone!
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:33 am UTC

Deva wrote:Reported an issue with saving in locations with a PC. Affects Pokemon Centers and the Battle Tree (a post-game location). Does not always occur. Advises against saving there, however.

Just found another article. Discovered the likely cause: PKHex. Cheats in Pokemon.

Edit: Spoiler for Akala’s first Trial.
Spoiler:
Came for blood.

Totem Pokemon: Wishiwashi (Level 20. Water). +1 Defense.
Weather: Rain.
Team: Torracat (Level 25. Fire), Cutiefly (Level 23. Bug/Fairy), and Fomantis (Level 19. Grass).

Picked up Fomantis recently. Fared somewhat poorly already, even against water-types. Liked its appearance, though. Needed something against Water and Rock too.

Opened with Growth. Growled it away. (Only knew physical moves. Effectively canceled it.) Called in a Wishiwashi, unsurprisingly. Hit both with Razor Leaf. Killed the ally. Inflicted maybe one-sixth of the Totem Pokemon’s health. Traded Growths and Growls for three straight turns. Threw in Soak too. Removed same type attack bonus.

Summoned a second ally: Alolomola. Turned south at this moment. Spammed Helping Hand. Bolstered Wishiwashi’s rain-boosted Water Gun to three-hit territory. Tanked Razor Leaf almost as well too. Still felt winnable, however. Alternated Razor Leaf and Super Potions…until Alolomola’s Heal Pulse.

Swapped to Cutiefly. Missed Stun Spore. Retaliated with a one-hit, normal effective Water Gun. Replaced Cutiefly with a Wishiwashi also. (Caught it earlier. Looked like a support Pokemon. Did not consider it a team member.) Restored Cutiefly to full health. Returned after its friend died. Connected with Stun Spore on Wishiwashi. Immediately dropped to Alolomola’s Healer ability.

Decided to focus down Alolomola. Chose Struggle Bug, due to held item. Stumbled upon the winning strategy. Lowered Special Attack on both. (Forgot it did that.) Survived the following Water Gun. Reduced it again before falling.

Sent Fomantis back in. Shifted Water Gun to five hits. Cleaned up Alolomola and Wishiwashi after that.

Hates Alolomola now. Felt refreshing, though. Lorded over everything (except the first Gym) in X and Y. Appreciates something fighting back. Gained ~1700 (boosted) experience between Alolomola and Wishiwashi too. Compares to around 220 elsewhere.

Edit2: Akala Island. Second Trial.
Spoiler:
Employs filthy tactics.
Turn One: Torment. Called a partner.
Turn Two: Toxic into Venoshock.

Survived, thanks to affection. Dodged Turn Three’s Venoshock. Cleansed Toxic too. (Shush. Likes increasing affection.)

Would have managed, even without affection. Faced an awful type matchup (Fairy/Bug or Grass versus Fire/Poison). Packed Hidden Power: Ground on Cutiefly, though.

Edit3: ...What? Called for help. Brought in Mareanie. Immediately backstabbed Corsola. Never seen that before. Certainly earned "The Brutal Star".

Edit4: Caught a shiny Alolan Raticate. Sighs. Welcome to Box Three. Get comfortable.
Edit5: And a shiny Exeggcute.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:38 am UTC

Cleared the main story. Final stats, Pokemon, and notes.
Spoiler:
Final time: 40:02. Backtracked quite a bit. Only grinded to level new team members.
Zygarde Cores/Cells: 54/100. (55 with the bedroom’s.)
Seen: 244 Pokemon. By island: 111/113/111/82.
Caught: 118 Pokemon (39%). By island: 65/55/61/50.

Team (in order of joining)
Incineroar (Fire/Dark). Level 54.
Ribombee (Bug/Fairy). Level 52.
Lurantis (Grass). Level 54.
Toxapex (Water/Poison). Level 52.
Togedemaru (Electric/Steel). Level 55.
Minior (Rock/Flying). Level 51. Added just before the Elite Four.

Worried about the Elite Four. Mentioned inviting all four Kahunas. Struggled against Rock and Ground. Never found satisfactory counters either. Felt relieved to see Ground absent. Technically recruited Minior for that, though. Came in handy against Flying, at least.

Most Valuable Pokemon: Togedemaru. Wanted someone effective against Flying. Exemplified that as Electric/Steel. Nullified electric Pokemon (with Lightning Rod) as a bonus. Featured good attack and speed. Typically led battles. Slotted U-Turn in towards that end. Worked well. Sealed the victory with the epilogue legendary fight. Could not die.

Shined thanks to Nuzzle. Paralyzed all of Alola. Debilitated several threats. Prevented irritating SOS battles. Weakened Pokemon for capture. Paired great with Zing Zap. Shut down Pokemon with paralysis and flinching.

Awards an honorary mention to Incineroar. Carried the first half. Won against Hapu's Flygon, despite having no business doing so. (Intended to use a Z-Move. Proved too slow. Held on at one hitpoint three times.) Failed to stand out, however. Personified the team’s main weaknesses: Rock, Ground, and Fighting.

Rivalry: Ribombee versus Magneton/Magnezone.
- First battle: Used Hidden Power (Ground). Triggered Strudy. Died to Flash Cannon.
- Second battle: See above.
- Third battle (Champion): Lost Incineroar to Flare Blitz’s recoil. Picked Robombee against an unknown (and last) Pokemon. Happened to be Magnezone. Brought it to half health with Hidden Power. Dodged Thunder Wave. Scored the final blow.


Thoughts on Pokemon Sun/Moon:
Spoiler:
Overall: Enjoyed it. Risked having no "gyms". Paid off. Created more short-term goals and minibosses. Resulted in more frequent highlights. Did not miss Hidden Machines either.

Still preferred X/Y at times, however. Pestered you with characters too often. Spouted generic lines again.

May think differently in the Battle Tree. Became far more invested after trying its X/Y counterpart.

Pokemon aesthetics: Designed some good looks. Considered several evolutions to be nonsensical, however. Example:
Grubbin Evolution.png
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What happened? Assumed a Butterfree or Pinsir with Grubbin. Why does it suddenly become a Bug Bus, then ElectroBeetle? Ended up great…in this case. May have disappointed people expecting something else. Leads to team disloyalty. Considers that awful in games about raising monsters. Example Two:
Rockruff Evolution.png
Rockruff Evolution.png (19.02 KiB) Viewed 1598 times

(Evolves based on version. Becomes the middle Pokemon in Moon and the right Pokemon in Sun.) Understands Sun’s Lycanroc. Missed a step between small dog and red werewolf.

Battle Mechanics: Approves of lots of signature moves. Adds more uniqueness. Helps drive battling styles too. Points to Toxapex. Learns Baneful Bunker. Acts like Protect. Inflicts poison on contact. Reinforces its Merciless ability. (Automatically crits poisoned targets.) Gave it Toxic Spikes too. Keeps opponents guessing.

Boosted Bug-types considerably. Tended to fare poorly. (Only thinks of Volcarona.) Hopes to hear of good ones. (Certainly added enough.)

SOS Battles: The worst part of this generation. Occurs way too often. Called for help two or three turns in a row (successfully) sometimes. Felt frustrating. Interferes with catching Pokemon. Hid Pokemon behind them. Allows nonsense like Level 9 to 12 Salamance. (Sidenote: Wow. 1% chance for Bagon there. Lucked out hard.)

Might be an interesting mechanic…at a quarter of the current rate. Leave high rates to Adrenaline Orbs.

Music: Succeeded and failed in odd spots. Liked the Trainer battle music, Seaward Cave, and Po Town. Disliked the Grand Trial music. Sounded like a cross between Evil Leader music and Friend battle music.

Linearity: Did anyone else feel hemmed in? Blocked routes with Pokemon (Tauros, undisguised Sudowoodo, Stoutland, and Digletts) constantly. Built trial walls everywhere. Erected a fence in front of a lighthouse. Why? How do normal people penetrate this barrier? (Knows about the boulder in Diglett Cave.)

Is not unique to Sun/Moon, of course. Usually used natural barriers, though, such as water. Reserved them for optional areas in Sun/Moon.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Carlington » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:35 am UTC

Regarding a Ground counter and some other thoughts (minor spoilers lo):
Spoiler:
I'm only at the third Island thus far, currently doing the ghost trial near Tapu Village. To this point in the game, I've been using Wingull as a Ground counter - the Water/Flying combo works well for this. I'm on the lookout for a pure Water type with Levitate, or else a pure Flying type that I can teach a Water move to.

I'm playing much differently to how I have in previous games, trying not to rely on one team and instead frequently switching Pokémon into and out of boxes as I enter new areas. Snorlax is one of the only consistent fixtures (only one vulnerability, high HP, unique Z-power, and Ghost-types can be remedied with Odor Sleuth). I'm yet to lose a battle, which is also new. My current team is Sylveon (I evolved this by accident but I'm not displeased), Decidueye, Snorlax, Geodude, Dugtrio and Greninja.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:02 am UTC

Ground counter
Spoiler:
Never expect pure Flying Pokemon. Finds two in all of Pokemon (not including Sun/Moon): Arceus (with a Sky Plate) and Tornadus.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:01 am UTC

I'm having issues seeing where any of the new Pokemon (aside from the Tapu / Ultra Beast legendaries) would fit in an OU team. I mean, Pheromosa is obviously good. But lets talk about the non-legendaries.

Kommo-o isn't much bulkier than Garchomp on either defenses: his 75 HP greatly lowers his tanking ability. Garchomp can tank while having 130 Atk and 102 Speed, while having access to Stealth Rocks. Dragon / Fighting is cool and all, but all of the other dragons just seem superior. The only niche seems to be DD / Taunt. Dragon Dance + 3attacks is inferior to Dragonite. Bulky Choice-band Pivot is inferior to Choice-Band Garchomp. Choice Scarf Revenge Killer is inferior to Garchomp.

Incineroar is Fire / Dark, not a good defensive type. No Earthquake-weak / Close Combat weak / Stone Edge physical tank pokemon will be good at only 60 speed. (Really? Its weak to both sides of Edge-Quake. Exactly who are you planning to wall and/or pivot? Certainly not Azumarril, Terrakion, Lucario, Garchomp). Powerful Sp. Attackers like Contrary Serperior will blast through Incineroar's pitiful Sp. Defenses, even if it is resisted. Incineroar is basically a Bisharp counter and that's about it (literally every other physical attacker in OU beats Incineroar, even Weavile due to Low Kick)

Primarina seems like an ideal Sp. Def Pivot with Choice Specs... a Special-version of Azumarril. Its probably the easiest to use non-legendary I've seen thanks to Water / Fairy typing... but I'm not sure if it can break into OU territory.

Decidueye and Mimikyu are complicated. Decidueye's Spirit Shackle -> Baton Pass or U-Turn sounds solid as all hell, and Defog users are always useful. Mimikyu's ignore-one-hit effect works with its movepool of Swords Dance / Destiny Bond. But if you aren't using a Z-attack, Mimikyu is basically going to be walled by Skarmory even at +2.

Lycanroc Midnight Form is utter trash. Lycanroc Midday form is usable: STAB Choice Band Accelrock will be a solid-check against Volcarona, Talonflame, Charizard Y. 112-speed is good, but 115 Attack is not too useful because Lycanroc is missing any attack with 100bp and 100% accuracy. (its missing Earthquake, Close Combat, or any other high-power move). If Lycanroc can get more moves in a future game, it might be solid... but for now, its a very niche attacker with poor coverage. Starmie is basically superior as a sweeper (Bolt / Beam / Surf), and Azelf is strictly superior as a Stealth Rocks/ Taunt user.

Toxapex is interesting, but its low HP means it physical defenses are only comparable to say, Togekiss... and its Sp. Defense is far behind. Jellicent has similar bulk, has the recovery, has Scald and Will-o-Wisp... but sits very far down in the RU tier. I'm having difficulty seeing Toxapex used over the RU-tier Jellicent, let alone a high-power OU wall like Regenerator Slowbro. EDIT: Ah, Toxapex has Haze. That makes a big difference. Okay, it deserves a close look.

Mudsdale is a weaker Hippowdon without Stealth Rocks or Slack off. UU at best, maybe RU even.

Lurantis has Contrary Leaf Storm, but so does Serperior and he's much better at it.

Salazzle is unique, and therefore complicated. I'll need more time to analyze. 117 speed is a very good speed tier to sit at, its a Nasty Plotter, its got Encore, Knock-Off, and its got unstoppable Toxic. Chansey still cripples it however with Natural Cure + Thunder Wave. Its a very unique Pokemon, it will not go any lower than UU and might have a spot in OU. Its managed to beat all of the Magic Guard `Mon with Sludge Bomb (aka: Clefable), Steels (they don't like Overheat), and even Poison Heal `Mon (Gliscor is weak to Sp. Attacks while Breloom is weak to fire and Poison).

Its a decent sweeper and a decent stall-breaker, but Salazzle doesn't have the stats to go toe-to-toe with bulky `mon like Garchomp or faster `mon like Alakazam or Azelf.

Bewear is funny. Even without its ability, it tanks Earthquakes quite fine. Its basically going to take Close-Combats as well as a bulky Garchomp despite its weakness being a Normal type (lol half-damage from contact moves). It seems like a good Choice Band choice.

Golisopod doesn't have the movepool I want, although Water / Bug typing is unique. Its a solid revenge-killer due to priority "First Impression"... but its unique move makes it a poor Choice Band user (can only use the attack once), and its bulk does not like the idea of a Life Orb. Maybe the Bug-Z move (to allow a "2nd use" of First Impression... so to speak) will make Golisopod solid.

----------

So yeah, that's my shortlist.

* Decidueye (Spirit Shackle / Baton Pass)
* Primarina (Choice Specs Sp. Defensive Pivot)
* Salazzle (Nasty Plot / Taunt / Encore off of 117 speed)
* Bewear (2HKO'd by Lucario's Life-Orb Close Combat / Choice Banded Talonflame Brave Birds despite being weak to it)
* Golisopod (If people discover a good use of "First Impression" and/or Emergency Exit)
* Mimikyu (mayyyybeee... its so weird... so it might pull a Klefki)
* Toxapex (Regenerator / Recover / Haze / Scald / Toxic)

That's just about all of the "viable" OU candidates I can think of. And I'm being hopelessly optimistic for Mimikyu and Golisopod IMO.

=========================

I'll look through the Alola-Pokemon next...
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:26 pm UTC

Disclaimer: Only plays Battle Tower (and new incarnations). Enjoys Double battles.

Singles: Does Decidueye have enough speed (or survivability) to pull off Spirit Shackle -> U-turn/Baton Pass?

What about Tsareena? Stops priority with Queenly Majesty. Comes with 120 base Attack and 98 Defense/Special Defense. Learns Rapid Spin, U-turn, Trop Kick, Play Rough, and High Jump Kick. Lacks Speed also, unfortunately.


Doubles: Sees decent Trick Room options.
- Drampa: Learns tons of special attack Technical Machines. Blocks opposing weather with Cloud Nine. Ties Volcarona for the nastiest Hurricane. (Chooses Sap Sipper/Berserk instead then, of course.)
- Dhelmise: Effectively gains Steel same-type attack bonus. Stops switching with Anchor Shot. Resists Earthquake and Surf.
- Vikavolt: Great Special Attack. Always appreciates Levitate. Knows Volt Switch, if necessary.

Added four Trick Room users: Mimikyu, Bruxish, Oranguru, and Comfey.
- Mimikyu: Absorbs one free attack. Benefits from ignoring Fake Out with Ghost type. Suffers from low hitpoints and too much speed, probably.
- Bruxish: Will probably die first.
- Oranguru: Cannot go wrong with Telepathy. Bets on some amazing Symbiosis combination.
- Comfey: Great healing capability. Pairs well with Grass Pokemon.

Do they beat Aromatisse? …Probably not. Gives Mimikyu the longest glance. Depends on the team members, though.

Other: Turtonator. Hmm. Stared at Shell Trap. 150 power. -3 Priority. Triggers upon being hit by a physical attack (not contact, supposedly). Hits all adjacent foes.
________

Unlocked the Judge function. Rolled with an awful Toxapex, apparently. Possesses zero Individual Value in Special Defense. Guesses maybe four each in Hitpoints and Defense. Scored thirty in Speed…on a slow Pokemon and –Speed nature.

Still performs decently in Battle Royals (relative to other options). Rarely targets Toxapex. Receives helpful Trick Rooms sometimes. Downside: Poisoned more with Poison Jab than Baneful Bunker.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:05 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Disclaimer: Only plays Battle Tower (and new incarnations). Enjoys Double battles.

Singles: Does Decidueye have enough speed (or survivability) to pull off Spirit Shackle -> U-turn/Baton Pass?


U-Turn is used on predicted switch-ins. The threat of Spirit Shackle will force switches. Imagine a wall Togekiss is out for example, and Decidueye switches in while it roosts... now what?

The Togekiss user has two options:

1. Switch out immediately (which is beaten by U-Turn). In the worst case, you hit the switch-in with Spirit Shackle and Decidueye is forced out.
2. Stay in (which beats the U-Turn, but risks getting Shackled -> Baton Passed and taken out). If you stay in, U-turn is slower than the switch-out animation, so the Togekiss counter is incoming, and there's a chance for a solid setup anyway.

So you've got a 50-50, between "I win the switch wars" and "I win the switch-wars even harder".

It will be a nasty combo for mind-games at the lower-speed tiers. Shackling Forretress, Togekiss, Slowbro, Ferrothorn and allowing somebody to come in on a passive-pokemon to setup is a scary thought.

Its a niche use, its probably going to be a UU-tier Pokemon with a good potential use in OU. Nothing else threatens the setup-attempt quite like Decidueye.

What about Tsareena? Stops priority with Queenly Majesty. Comes with 120 base Attack and 98 Defense/Special Defense. Learns Rapid Spin, U-turn, Trop Kick, Play Rough, and High Jump Kick. Lacks Speed also, unfortunately.


Calculations look like she's roughly as defensive as Machamp, which is bulkier than I was expecting. HJK instantly makes anything a threat, but the lack of STAB means its going to be far weaker than you'd expect. It looks like it has poor coverage and poor attacking STAB.

Bulky U-Turns and Rapid Spin means it instantly has a niche as a bulky-grass type. But Mega-Venusaur, Amoonguss and Tangrowth all look like superior walls. Heck, Tsareena reminds me a lot of Leafeon, and that's not a good thing. IE: She'll function as a great Pivot and has some unique utility moves... but you need more than just that to be a great `mon.

She'll get niche use in OU. Rapid-spinners need a way to deal with ghost types (I know Gengar has ben nerfed, but there will be a new Spin-blocker in OU)... and she doesn't get anything. Starmie for example outspeeds and OHKO's Gengar, and Excadrill KOs a lot of pokemon. I can't see Tsareena being used over Excadrill in any circumstances (Better typing, better synergies, stronger hitting, better attacks)
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:48 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:U-Turn is used on predicted switch-ins. The threat of Spirit Shackle will force switches. Imagine a wall Togekiss is out for example, and Decidueye switches in while it roosts... now what?

Does Spirit Shackle's effect fade upon switching out? Is it significantly better than, say, Umbreon's Mean Look -> Baton Pass? (Trades free damage for better survivability.) Sang Nuzzle's praises recently, so maybe.

Shrugs. Grew accustomed to the murder option (and Assault Vest Togekiss). Rarely plays the switching game. Resorts to status conditions in those cases (if available). Expects wall-types to have those.
Calculations look like she's roughly as defensive as Machamp, which is bulkier than I was expecting. HJK instantly makes anything a threat, but the lack of STAB means its going to be far weaker than you'd expect. It looks like it has poor coverage and poor attacking STAB.

Bulky U-Turns and Rapid Spin means it instantly has a niche as a bulky-grass type. But Mega-Venusaur, Amoonguss and Tangrowth all look like superior walls. Heck, Tsareena reminds me a lot of Leafeon, and that's not a good thing. IE: She'll function as a great Pivot and has some unique utility moves... but you need more than just that to be a great `mon.

She'll get niche use in OU. Rapid-spinners need a way to deal with ghost types (I know Gengar has ben nerfed, but there will be a new Spin-blocker in OU)... and she doesn't get anything. Starmie for example outspeeds and OHKO's Gengar, and Excadrill KOs a lot of pokemon. I can't see Tsareena being used over Excadrill in any circumstances (Better typing, better synergies, stronger hitting, better attacks)

Fair point. Acknowledges Excadrill doing better. (Switches into entry hazards easier too.) Deserves a bit better than Leafeon comparisons, though. Save those for Lurantis.

Related thought: Forgot about abilities like Prankster and (old) Gale Wings. Stops those with Queenly Majesty. Protects your allies too. Dies to Flare Blitz instead, of course.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:16 pm UTC

Deva wrote: Deserves a bit better than Leafeon comparisons, though.


252+ Atk Choice Band Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 259-306 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 265-312 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Leafeon: 144-169 (53.1 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tsareena: 183-216 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think you're being slightly unfair to Leafeon. Its rather bulky, rather fast, and quite a powerful striker. In fact, Leafeon basically does the same damage as Tsareena except is faster and more defensive.

Leafeon also has Swords Dance, Knock Off, Baton Pass, and other moves that solidly defines its niche. Tsareena's niche is different, as a Rapid Spinner / U-Turner... but I'd say they are roughly tied as far as overall usability.

Tsareena reminds me of Leafeon because it does roughly the same damage, has unique niche moves (Rapid Spin and U-turn), hits hard, takes a hit physically, but isn't quite fast-enough to really break through to OU. Grass / Fighting coverage still gets walled by bulky fliers (ex: Gliscor), so its not really much better than Leafeon's Grass / Normal coverage (walled by Steel)

Deva wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:U-Turn is used on predicted switch-ins. The threat of Spirit Shackle will force switches. Imagine a wall Togekiss is out for example, and Decidueye switches in while it roosts... now what?

Does Spirit Shackle's effect fade upon switching out? Is it significantly better than, say, Umbreon's Mean Look -> Baton Pass? (Trades free damage for better survivability.) Sang Nuzzle's praises recently, so maybe.


The main difference is that Spirit Shackle is an 80BP move. Umbreon is passive, so as soon as Umbreon comes in, you know to switch in Conversion Porygon Z and go for the Sweep.

Decidueye has the U-Turn to keep a setup `mon on its toes. Spirit Shackle itself will do some damage, which most sweepers don't like. There are plenty of `mon who will gratefully accept the Mean-look -> Baton Pass from Umbreon, while very few seem like they'd like to take the Spirit Shackle -> Baton Pass and/or immediately threatened U-turn from Decidueye.

Its one of the stronger options, but I'm still not sure if Decidueye would become OU worthy. Its just a niche that's significantly stronger than previous trapping options (sans Dugtrio and the Smogon-banned Shadow Tag Gothellte)
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby Deva » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:00 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I think you're being slightly unfair to Leafeon. Its rather bulky, rather fast, and quite a powerful striker. In fact, Leafeon basically does the same damage as Tsareena except is faster and more defensive.

Views Leafeon through a (Doubles) Sun Team lens. Always considers Chlorophyll Pokemon. What attacks can it have? Carries Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, Return, and Knock-Off. Describes a lot of grass-types, coverage-wise. Pays for its high Defense with weaker Special Defense too. Cannot generally afford to Swords Dance or Yawn much.

Look at Victreebel in comparison. Features 100 base Special Attack (versus Leafeon’s 110 Attack). Knows Solar Beam, Weather Ball (150 power Fire, with sunlight’s boost), and Sludge Bomb. Functions as a possible mixed attacker with 105 base attack and Leaf Blade too. (Might as well, with its defenses. Sacrifices Protect, though.)

(Inspected Lurantis again. Sold it short on move types. Thought of Leafeon because of that. Still lacks great options. Remains crippled by low speed. Needed Chlorophyll badly.)
___________
Edit: Started filling in the Pokedex. Dreads item trade evolutions. Looked for even trades. Always wanted the evolution for the base plus item. Resorted to blind Global Trade Systems deposits. Progress so far:
Electivire: 1/1
Magmortar: 1/1
Scizor: 0/4 (Received one Scyther in a Master Ball. Traded very fast. Could not have caught it in that time. Looked legitimate.)

Plans to stop for a while. Sent one good Scyther (Adamant Technician with three perfect Individual Values). Wants to snag a Destiny Knot. Needed one eventually anyways.

Edit2: Wait. No. Forgot about Porygon. Refuses to risk thirty-two Battle Points per attempt. Farmed other items much easier.
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Re: My Pokemanz, let me show you them...

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:49 am UTC

Overall, Sun / Moon look like good Pokemon games, but not quite as polished as X and Y were. The game is a touch laggier on my older 3DS, the game clearly pushes the GPU capabilities and demands the newer system. The new SOS system of chaining is annoying for the vast majority of people I've talked to, even though its got technical benefits over the previous systems. Horde Battles (from X / Y) were much faster for EV Training purposes, and Poke-Radar for chaining shinies or high-IV pokemon was just less annoying. Still, SOS Chaining gets the job done... but it doesn't hold itself to the same polish as previous systems.

While there have been a number of quality-of-life improvements (making Sun / Moon the best game for training Pokemon), there are numerous downsides to the new game. First of all, the game lacks a "Blissey" trainer for a repeat battle. X/Y had the Battle Chateau and Battle Restaraunts. Older games had a rechallenge mechanic for the various trainers you meet. But Sun/Moon only have the Elite Four, which historically wasn't the most efficient exp or money grinding spot.

The most efficient level-up spot in Pokemon Sun/Moon is the Festival Plaza... requiring the players to take the "Pokemon Type Matchup" test hundreds of times before you can afford a Fortune Teller 5, then requiring a few hundred more attempts to build up the FC to purchase a second Fortune Teller 5. Then you repeat the process with Wonder Trades until you build up again, 3000 to 4000FC, and purchase two Rare Kitchen 5. Once all this setup is complete, you can then level up a pokemon from Lvl 66 to Lvl 98 with just 800 FC (which will take 25 wonder trades once you have an optimal setup). Compared to the hell that is grinding the Elite 4 for 3+ hours, this is actually the fastest way of doing things.

Still, you'll need a source of bottle caps for Hyper Training (IV training) and other such FC power-gaming to really keep things up. I do think this is inferior to the "Blissey Battles" of the past, even if Hyper Training offers an opportunity that no other game has offered before. The ability to max out a Legendary's IVs without soft-resetting literally thousands of times. So for perfectionists like me... this new tedious process is still faster than previous games.

-------------

Otherwise, Sun/Moon still feel very incomplete compared to earlier games. There are very few move tutors (Stealth Rocks? Knock Off? Come on!!!), and there are very few mega-stones available. (No Mega Lopunny, Mawile, Medicham, Pigeot, Beedrill... lots of missing Megas). So a good bit is missing from a multiplayer perspective... but nothing that can't be solved by a high-quality release of Pokemon Stars.

For now, this game's multiplayer is sufficient, but improvements need to be made within this generation to keep my interest.

As far as single-player goes... the island challenges were a good change of pace, although some were just... awful. (Wishiwashi Totem was the absolute worst puzzle I've ever had in any Pokemon game. It was just "walk forward, KO the next Wishiwashi"). But every other fight was somewhat memorable, either through quirkyness (see dancing Marowak / Salazzle Totem battle) or through unique challenges (Sunny Day Lunantis with Castform backup and Synthesis for huge HP Recovery). It was a solid single player game.

However, Pokemon Sun/Moon struck an awkward tone with me as far as the storyline goes. Up till now, I've always seen the "story" of Pokemon to be a joke, but Sun / Moon have improved the story dramatically. There are multiple characters, with hidden secrets and connections. If you pay attention to how certain characters interact, you can figure out their connections ahead of time. However, the storyline was overall still very simple, even though they were trying to push the "feels" button. Lillie's relationship with the main character was blatant romantic shipping, something that really hasn't been done in another Pokemon game before.

And honestly, it didn't work too well for me. Still, no one can possibly deny that Lillie was the most well developed character out of any Pokemon game basically ever made. But I just don't feel like the Pokemon Universe is too good at telling a story, especially one centered around a non-trainer like Lillie. Other games have more opportunity for epic battles or confrontations.

Another issue: the story could not be ignored in this game. There were lots of unskippable cutscenes, long sections of dialogue and character development. Still, I do appreciate the effort that the developers put into the story this time around... even if my personal preference is for a much weaker story (or at least one which has much less dialogue and can be ignored. Like Pokemon Diamond / Pearl, Black and White, or X and Y). Most blatant was the huge, unskippable cutscene after you finish the Elite Four for the first time.

Spoiler:
There's a big festival, every character comes out to say something, Lillie and you sneak out to meet Tapu Koko... all without an opportunity to save or otherwise skip through.
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