Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

[skellious]

I'm not entirely sure where your assumption that technology will disappear suddenly comes from, skellious.

Well my theory is that without power or fuel, cars, tractors, electronmicroscopes and the like will not, on the whole, be that useful...

As someone who doesn't use paragraphs, you seriously should consider doing so...

I appologise profusely if my neglect of the paragraph hampered your enjoyment of my post and will endeavour to utilise the paragraphical devise in future postings.

Flaws in the nationalistic "UK as last holdout" idea aside, a more careful examination of assumptions reveals that a zombie apocalypse is likely to be either entirely global or confined to at worst one continent, depending on the initial parameters.

Can you blame me? Half the zombie films made in the US tend to see the USA as the last holdout. And it was more a case of , hey, we live on a small island... maybe zombies wont start in/migrate to here. However I appologise if it caused you any offence and feel free to allow the UK to fall to the might of the Horde.

Who says zombies cant swim/march on the bottom on the ocean?

Well my point was not so much the ability or otherwise to cross an ocean, but rather the motive. Can zombies detect humans from more than a few hundered meters away (if not, why would they bother to cross ANY water course? they would not be aware of the existance of other lands.)? I think this needs to be investigated, can someone organise a team to research this?

[unnamed 00]

Can you blame me? Half the zombie films made in the US tend to see the USA as the last holdout. And it was more a case of , hey, we live on a small island... maybe zombies wont start in/migrate to here. However I appologise if it caused you any offence and feel free to allow the UK to fall to the might of the Horde.

Who says zombies cant swim/march on the bottom on the ocean?

Well my point was not so much the ability or otherwise to cross an ocean, but rather the motive. Can zombies detect humans from more than a few hundered meters away (if not, why would they bother to cross ANY water course? they would not be aware of the existance of other lands.)? I think this needs to be investigated, can someone organise a team to research this?

Well... First of all... the UK is a small island??... I think we have a rather different idea of what small means...
Apart from that, I have to admit that a zombie probably wouldn't have a reason to try and cross the sea... unless it just fell to it, and kept wandering, as it would have done anywhere else, or unless he (it?) tries to catch a fish for breakfast...

It's true that a small island would be easy to defend from the infection, but I don't think England would, just because one reason: ships. Any survivor who happened to be near the coast would probably think, like you, that maybe the UK has managed to avoid the infection, so a lot of ships will try to reach england. And it's easy that any of that ships contains infected, either one attacking the crew or lots of them overwhelming them while they try to escape the dock. I don't know much about navigation, but I'm pretty sure that once a ship has set its path to the UK, it's rather difficult for it to miss it, even if that means that it will crash anywere. So we have infected in english coasts, and since it's not a small island, i dont think that the government (if there's still one) will manage to defend every beach in the island at the same time...

I think that maybe another island, more small and/or isolated, would resist without problems.

[Dr. Willpower]

Well... First of all... the UK is a small island??... I think we have a rather different idea of what small means...
Apart from that, I have to admit that a zombie probably wouldn't have a reason to try and cross the sea... unless it just fell to it, and kept wandering, as it would have done anywhere else, or unless he (it?) tries to catch a fish for breakfast...

It's true that a small island would be easy to defend from the infection, but I don't think England would, just because one reason: ships. Any survivor who happened to be near the coast would probably think, like you, that maybe the UK has managed to avoid the infection, so a lot of ships will try to reach england. And it's easy that any of that ships contains infected, either one attacking the crew or lots of them overwhelming them while they try to escape the dock. I don't know much about navigation, but I'm pretty sure that once a ship has set its path to the UK, it's rather difficult for it to miss it, even if that means that it will crash anywere. So we have infected in english coasts, and since it's not a small island, i dont think that the government (if there's still one) will manage to defend every beach in the island at the same time...

I think that maybe another island, more small and/or isolated, would resist without problems.

Like hawaii, for instance?

[Canineteeth]

From what I remember from the Max Brooks book (I really need to get my friends to return them to me) Zombies can cross oceans, and commonly do so. Solanum (the zombie virus) slows down its decay, and the salt water somehow does too (in WWZ, one of the divers is wondering why they don't rot). As to how they get in the water in the first place, following lights, falling in, and randomly walking around into a body of water. They might not be able to detect you from more then a hundred meters away (they easily can though), but remember they have wander around randomly ( unless they are in a horde).

And something I learned from the Apocalypse Man show on History in regards to those "losing technology" comments: After Katrina, libraries were the only buildings that did not report anything stolen.

[Ivora]

I wonder why survivors are often worse then zombies in an outbreak.

You would think a walking corpse intent on killing/converting you is horrifying, until you come across someone willing to kill you over a weapon they might need/ for food or water/ shelter comes into the picture.

[The Mighty Thesaurus]

It turns out that Ayn Rand is the poor man's George Romero.

[Izawwlgood]

And Engels is the modern mans Horde?

[gmalivuk]

I wonder why survivors are often worse then zombies in an outbreak.

You say that in the present tense, as though this has ever happened, ever.

Are you living on a different Earth from the rest of us? That might explain a lot, actually...

[Josephine]

It's Ivora. Expect to have to dig through some hideous grammar.

[Ivora]

It's Ivora. Expect to have to dig through some hideous grammar.

YOU SHUDDUP! JU DON NO MEH!!

[Box Boy]

What a witty, well structured and most certainly not boringly overused retort, I am truly in the presence of a genius.

[LE4dGOLEM]

As fun as taking potshots at each other is, let's try to talk about zombies in this thread

[Box Boy]

Okay, sorry.
So then, against a Z-Day zombie, how do you thing and combine harvester would fare against a large group of Zeds?
Assuming they were in front at first, obviously.

[JBJ]

While a combine would certainly be effective at dismembering them initially, my concern is that the belts/augers that would normally separate the grain would get jammed on the tissue and bones. With no way to evacuate the tissue from the blades, you run the risk of jamming them up rendering the combine useless. I think a steamroller would be more effective. They'd be crushed into paste and there's less risk of getting zombie parts jammed in the workings.

[Box Boy]

Yes, but a steamroller is slower, smaller, made for flat terrain and last time I checked the majority don't have cages/cockpits for the driver.
As for the combine, surely that part can be removed without the blades being touched?

[JBJ]

Even if you disconnect the grain belt, there's still the issue of clearing the blades of zombie debris.

Good point on the steamroller, wasn't thinking about driver protection. Although I'm sticking with crushing over slicing, just due to simplicity and reliability. A track vehicle, like a large bulldozer is starting to become really appealing. It also has the advantage of more mobility over uneven ground, and few things will present an obstacle. Run over a large rock with a combine and you smash and dent your blades. Run over a large rock with a bulldozer and you make gravel.

[Box Boy]

It would also bepretty useful in urban enviornments when going against other survivors for resources.
Just imagine their fear when you destroy their fort and send in squads of armed raiders to tale out survivors and loot.

[Canineteeth]

They'll have warning from the roaring of a massive engine from a mile away. And so will the zombies. And thus the thieves will have to ask the fort they assaulted to house them as they wait out against the horde of zombies you'd expect to find in an urban city. It will either end up really badly or in a bad-guy-gone-good novel.
On second thought, how are you getting one into a urban environment?

[Izawwlgood]

I'm inclined to believe a modified combine would be more effective then a modified steamroller. A combine will not get gunked up; those things spin regardless of what body part is in their way. A steamroller on the other hand is very slow, and only effective with a small width in front of it.

Ultimately though, both are loud devices that would likely attract zombies from far far away. If you run out of gas, or if something malfunctions, you're stuck in a canopy, and no matter how shielded, the zeds will get in, or, more likely and just as fatally, you won't get out. But assuming you have sufficient gas and a means for getting side stragglers off your drivers position, hell yeah, combine is a great idea.

[SecondTalon]

How are you fueling your 'dozers and 'rollers?

[Izawwlgood]

They're nuclear powered. Duh.

Fuel is always an issue, but I don't know much about the life span of a full tan on a combine. I imagine a good sized horde would be literally decimated in a couple of hours, and surely they have enough fuel to last at least that long?

[SummerGlauFan]

What about all the obstacles a combine will face? It can't even handle a wire fence, how do you think it will fare in a street packed with wrecked cars?

If I had to pick a large vehicle (I almost certainly would not, but suppose it was to my advantage to do so temporarily), I would pick a bulldozer. I would, of course, re-enforce the cab (as you should do with any vehicle you use), and I would have umpteen separate escape plans well thought out in advance. Because, there is no way that every zombie in the city is not coming your way once you fire this behemoth up, and I don't want to be trapped in there when I run out of gas or something breaks.

Speaking of escape plans, you should have several in mind for when you run out of gas; an example is a building you could escape into (preferably the second floor, which you should be able to reach from the roof of a dozer), with a way out that is on the opposite side of where your dozer is. Start heading to the building before you run out of fuel, leaving yourself some extra time for the unexpected, like an abandoned military roadblock or enough rubble that not even your new machine can get over it.

[Izawwlgood]

I should have clarified I suppose; the combine is a study in zed blending in the event of being in farmland. Obviously you don't bring it into the city, just as you obviously don't bring the steamroller into the mountains, or even into farmland (it's probably going to have problems in soft earth).

In the event of one of these things running out of fuel, I would expect you to basically be screwed until the zombies lost interest, or you could clear a path from your cab; I would assume that as soon as you turned it on and started mowing down/squishinating/dozering zombies, that they've covered the entire surface of the thing and are hammering away trying to get in.

[Josephine]

I would have to say a tank with a rotating minigun on the inside. Say you have a ring around the middle of the tank, and there's an opening just large enough for the gun. The ring with the hole rotates with the gun. 360 degree protection and lots of firepower.


I've also seen this thing for detonating mines. It has a reinforced body, and swinging chains in front to detonate them. That would be pretty devastating to any zeds in the way.

[Phrozt]

Somehow I'm thinking these large machines might be *just* a little more hard to come by than the body armor/M16s everyone thinks are lying around for the taking...

[JBJ]

Construction sites? Road construction? Public works projects? There are tons (literally!) of heavy machinery all over the place. That's why I'm more partial to a bulldozer or big front-end loader. It's not my primary choice of vehicle by any means, but depending on the circumstances it could be quite useful.

Military grade machines like tanks and minesweepers? Certainly a lot harder to come by unless you live on or near a military base.

[SummerGlauFan]

Another thing to worry about with super-large vehicle, especially military machines (tanks use jet engines, for crying out loud) is fuel. Most will be used up/destroyed/hoarded long before you even have the opportunity to get a large vehicle properly prepared.

[SecondTalon]

Construction sites? Road construction? Public works projects? There are tons (literally!) of heavy machinery all over the place. That's why I'm more partial to a bulldozer or big front-end loader. It's not my primary choice of vehicle by any means, but depending on the circumstances it could be quite useful.

Military grade machines like tanks and minesweepers? Certainly a lot harder to come by unless you live on or near a military base.

Know how to drive a dozer? Know how to operate a front-end loader?

I'll grant you that it's not exactly rocket science.. but these things aren't cars either.

[Upsilon]

Somehow I'm thinking these large machines might be *just* a little more hard to come by than the body armor/M16s everyone thinks are lying around for the taking...

I could easily find at least five combine harvesters nearby if you gave me an hour. Go farm-town.

I wouldn't know how to, y'know, operate them, but I could find them.

[JBJ]

Know how to drive a dozer? Know how to operate a front-end loader?

I'll grant you that it's not exactly rocket science.. but these things aren't cars either.

Yep. Been awhile. Granted, it was a smaller bobcat, but I'm pretty sure the controls are similar enough. Driving it is fairly simple, making it do the work you want is tricky. I can't guarantee a smooth ride or coordinated turns, but I could point it at some shamblers and run them over without too much trouble.

[Box Boy]

They'll have warning from the roaring of a massive engine from a mile away

And thus, we won't have to worry about figuring out how to drive it. The zombies will come to us by themselves.

[Toeofdoom]

They'll have warning from the roaring of a massive engine from a mile away

And thus, we won't have to worry about figuring out how to drive it. The zombies will come to us by themselves.

Guys, if zombies love loud noises so much, surely the best way to clear an area of infestation is simply to lure them into a giant meat grinder. Think of a car wash with nasty metal teeth or something.

[Canineteeth]

They'll have warning from the roaring of a massive engine from a mile away

And thus, we won't have to worry about figuring out how to drive it. The zombies will come to us by themselves.

Guys, if zombies love loud noises so much, surely the best way to clear an area of infestation is simply to lure them into a giant meat grinder. Think of a car wash with nasty metal teeth or something.

Human > Human Smell > Human Noise > Animal noise / smell > Loud noise > Random wandering. In World War Z, a mountain pass was blow up separating a few humans from a horde of zombies. The main character in that seen was hearing a tap noise, and then realized the zombies we're just going over the edge, trying to reach the humans. In short, that could probably work as long as nothing else distracts the zombies. And the meat grinder doesn't jam with bones.

[johny223]

I think I just found heaven.

[Captain Control]

I don't know about you guys, but I am going to my old high school. It is built like a prison(literally), fireproof, has many fall-back options and could be easily defended.

[Fume Troll]

Guys, if zombies love loud noises so much, surely the best way to clear an area of infestation is simply to lure them into a giant meat grinder. Think of a car wash with nasty metal teeth or something.

Tub Grinder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jjufewc4m8

I also like the idea of a series of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aja7gcgRMJU

Does the smell of shredded zombies attract non-shredded zombies?

[Pianodog]

I also like the idea of a series of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aja7gcgRMJU

You know, drive a car (dragging cans or something) through an infested city and lead the undead out to a warehouse where this has been set up... build a perch with a month's supply of food and water on one side and a low-incline ramp on the other, and the zeds will just walk up to their doom trying to get you. Might want to bring a gameboy with a few spare batteries, though; you'll be there a while. You also want to put a conveyer belt under it to shift the waste as it comes out so it doesn't clog.

It might also be possible to "herd" zombies - since they move slowly and home in on the living, you could drive circles in a large area (a few city blocks, a set of country lanes, etc) until you've managed to get enough of them following (but really just milling back and forth in the middle of the circle) that a few molotov cocktails can wipe out huge groups of them. A police-grade APC might be ideal, with a hatch on top, barricaded "roof" platform, and absolutely no chainsaw kill slits inside - we know what happens with those when you hit a little bump.

If you're concerned with destroying city buildings, you could always drag the hoard you pull together to a secondary location and incinerate them there.

[Canineteeth]

The only problem I can think of would be attracting a hoard to big for it too handle, to the point they just pile up and overflow the shredder. On the other hand, watching a big machine go on-nom-nom on those zombies would be interesting, if you have enough power for it.

[ArgonV]

I don't know about you guys, but I am going to my old high school. It is built like a prison(literally), fireproof, has many fall-back options and could be easily defended.

Might do the same. The basement was originally meant to double as a nuclear fall out shelter and there's a mall and a hunting shop within 200 meters.

[Josephine]

I don't know about you guys, but I am going to my old high school. It is built like a prison(literally), fireproof, has many fall-back options and could be easily defended.

Might do the same. The basement was originally meant to double as a nuclear fall out shelter and there's a mall and a hunting shop within 200 meters.

A fallout shelter is good for exactly that. Protecting from nuclear fallout. you want a bunker, something that was designed to withstand the blast itself.