Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:12 pm UTC

Yes on shoes. And if there was one thing I would pull off a dead SWAT guy would be assault boots:
Spoiler:
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I would not want something going through my soft-soled sneakers to infect me while I'm on the run.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:16 pm UTC

You're probably best off with a good pair of jeans and a jacket. Why trade one of your advantages over them (speed) for protection that will slow you to the pace of the countless horde?

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Lolsaur » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:19 pm UTC

Leather is very good at protection.

I believe it works through, the faster or greater a force is, the tighter the weaves go. I'm no fabric expert, so I may be wrong, but if it's good enough for coming off a motorbike and having no cuts, then it should protect against bites and scratches.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:24 pm UTC

With sneakers I'd be worried about stepping on shards of glass on the road while I run, then stepping on infected blood. With assult boots (hopefully built with speed in mind) I can run just about the same pace. It might be personal preferance as well. I'm a 200ish lb guy, not really overweight, so the extra weight of the boots will not be too much of a deal. Its the shape of the boots that matter. They wouldn't be snowboots or something.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Nifar » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

A bit late, I know, but I was asleep when this was posted, so I didn't get to respond to it.
AKAnotu wrote:
Nifar wrote:Stuff.

I don't think clothes are very high on my list of priorities. A few changes, but I'm going to be wearing the same set for weeks straight until they tear.

Also, It's not worth the risk to try to survive in a zombie infested mall for a change of clothes. The only time I'd go into a mall/strip mall (where all the clothing stores are located in my area) is if there was no other choice, and it was go through the mall or die.


It was simply something that had come to me while typing as a way to cut down on things that aren't a necessity that you would have to carry around. And I wasn't suggesting that you go into a potentially dangerous area just for clothes, but that you grab some stuff that'll fit you when you're somewhere that carries clothes in addition to food, water, etc. (i.e Wal-mart, Target, about a million other places.) I wouldn't take time to pick stuff that looks good, just go "Oh, that fits me? I'll take it." and move on, because it's not really a high priority as you pointed out.

As for the current discussion about armor, at some point someone mentioned wrapping exposed arms and legs in hockey tape or ductape, which zombies wouldn't be able to bite through. It seems like a good idea to me, because A) it won't weight you down, and B) while it won't keep the zombie from breaking your arm, if a zombie's already bitting you, you're pretty much fucked either way. If I had to choose between a broken arm or zombification, I'll take the broken arm any day.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby sophyturtle » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:33 pm UTC

I am more worries about learning how to grow penicillin (and were to get insulin, my hunney is diabetic and while I can get a powered form that can be used on animals you need saline to mix it and I don't really know how well that will work).

When it comes to drugs I worry more about other infections and less about pain killers. Maybe that is naive of me.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Phrozt » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:10 pm UTC

I'm wishing GTA's DLC had a zombie theme.

I realize you can run people over all day long, but it would be infinitely better to see the people you're about to run over being eaten by zombies, and/or have an entire CITY of zombies chasing you, forcing you to choose your path wisely and most likely piss your pants if you ever excessively damage/get thrown out of your car.

Could also make the streets littered w/cars including a variety of scenes from dead corpses, to people being eaten as you work your way through any available paths you find.

A sandbox game w/zombies would be so badass.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby kinigget » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:08 am UTC

If we're going to be setting up rendevous points, allow me to put in my suggestion of my building for Boulder Colorado. It has 3 floors, of which the top two are occupied, the only entrance is two locking doors, we would just need to assign one resident to every group of refugees. Everyone in the building has their own food, and if refugees bring their own, we could easily hold out for a month. I know at least one guy who owns a sword, I know that this isn't entirely helpful, but it would be useful for excursions to arm ourselves. There is a police station very close by, making the arming ourselves part that much easier. I'll be ready.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby AKAnotu » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:59 am UTC

Nifar wrote:As for the current discussion about armor, at some point someone mentioned wrapping exposed arms and legs in hockey tape or ductape, which zombies wouldn't be able to bite through. It seems like a good idea to me, because A) it won't weight you down, and B) while it won't keep the zombie from breaking your arm, if a zombie's already bitting you, you're pretty much fucked either way. If I had to choose between a broken arm or zombification, I'll take the broken arm any day.

Duct tape doesn't "breathe." You'll eventually pass out from heat stroke. I don't know about hockey tape, but I'm sure the same thing would happen.

Heck, covering yourself with any sort of tight, non-porous material is a no-no.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 am UTC

Hentzau wrote:I'd loot the drugs direct from a parmaceutical company, there's no reason to believe they would be particularly dangerous places come the brain- eatings. Or my local dispensary/pharmacy, nobody would take emergencies there (at least I hope not) and I'd say zombificaion is quite some emergency.

To be sure, I'd go into my loft and get down (plus clean and sharpen) my ancestor's sabre, and a cricket bat from my garage. Medicine, canned food, bottled water, camping supplies, and my fishing tackle are next.

A sabre? Nice! Swords are a good weapon and its even beter that you balanced it with a baseball bat!

What you should do about the drugs is just get painkillers . . . lots of painkillers . . . but not the hard stuff like morphine (Unless you realy need it)

SecondTalon wrote:
Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Although, I would be wearing SWAT gear (that I would take from the police station, along with other things like guns and tranquillizer darts to test on the zombies) . . . and we all know that SWAT gear is built to last! :twisted:

Alright, so I'm just going to ignore how you're not getting your hands on SWAT gear and pretend that somehow, someway, you manage to get a suit of armor and some of the other gear.

Are you a SWAT cop? Have you trained in running around in that armor? This page advertises "very, very light" armor weighing in at less than 2kg (less than 4.4 pounds).. doesn't say how much less, so let's just assume it weighs 1.75kg/3.8 pounds.

That's a best case scenario. Looking at A&E's show on Dallas SWAT, their gear looks to weigh substantially more than 4 pounds. This page has Ballistic Shields clocking in at 7.6kg/16.9 pounds.

You're going to be heavier than normal, so you're going to tire faster. You'll be overconfident, especially because you keep mentioning getting SWAT gear, I'm led to believe you think SWAT stuff will give you some kind of magical protection. It won't. You have no idea how to use it, how to move in it, what it protects and what it doesn't.

And it'll be wonderful to have that stuff when you're fighting off human raiders. Against something that merely has to bite your hand to doom you to a walking death? I'm not saying it's worthless, I'm just saying it'll help me run faster than you. And that's all I have to do.

*just remembers that I forget to tell everyone that my cousin is a cop* . . . Also, it wont be full SWAT gear. I know that would be too heavy. Just a lighter bullet proof vest (Ok, not exactly SWAT but the ones you see police in when there is a bank robbery and they are standing around outside (I said SWAT to make sure people knew what I ment)) . . . The thing is, it would be a bullet proof vest, night vision goggles, radio, possibly a helmet, the clothing if it fits me and (as people have pointed out the greatness of the boots) The assault boots. Which seems to be most of the armour. Or I could just get kevlar lined clothing, which would be much better than the heavy/hardened kevlar that is used for bullet proof vests (The stuff with heavy ceramic plating) because its lighter. (please correct that to however is grammatically correct if you want because I don't think it is) I don't know where to get kevlar or how expensive it would be so I'm not going to worry about it untill I need

And about the training, I know I'm not fit or skilled in the use of that stuff but I do know how to use a shield (I would probably take one of those riot police shields) and armour (even if I don't know how to use it) would still protect me a little.

About all the gear/guns slowing me down: I wouldn't be wearing it all at the same time. While clearing out a house, I would wear the clothing/vest, a couple guns/melee weapons, nothing more. At night, I would use the night vision goggles (but be in my clock tower throwing bricks and spears and stuff at zombies, rather than wasting ammo) . . . I would only use things that I could figure out how to use. If I cant use something, then I don't take it with me (Although, I might leave it in a safe house for other people to figure out how to use)

The VIP vest looks good, that's the kind of thing I would want.

That shield looked real nice . . . although heavy.

Note: I live in New Zealand, not the United States of Whatever

A tactical flash light would be a good idea (those lights that attach to guns)

Another note: My school bag weighs 7KG's and I carry that around all day without a problem. Take out the school books and put some ammo in and it will hardly change.

Phrozt wrote:I'm wishing GTA's DLC had a zombie theme.

I realize you can run people over all day long, but it would be infinitely better to see the people you're about to run over being eaten by zombies, and/or have an entire CITY of zombies chasing you, forcing you to choose your path wisely and most likely piss your pants if you ever excessively damage/get thrown out of your car.

Could also make the streets littered w/cars including a variety of scenes from dead corpses, to people being eaten as you work your way through any available paths you find.

A sandbox game w/zombies would be so badass.

I agree with you 100%! . . . did you say that because in the second resident evil movie the dude with the golden guns drives into a zombie and shouts "GTA Mother-F*cker! Ten points"? . . . That was awesome! lol!

Did someone post this: http://www.wehatezombies.com/2008/07/zombiehorde.swf . . . or was it just the simulation? O would be sitting in my clock tower (assuming I get the clock tower before anyone else) and throwing stuff at the zombies/shooting them.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Lolsaur » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 am UTC

Can I ask, do you have a plan? An actual objective to aim towards? Or do you just intend to wipe out zombies?

I would have thought that the first thing to cover would be an objective, such as a safe haven to head towards (if you know for certain it is safe) or a place to defend.

Personally, my plan would be to lay low in the place I'm in, stockpiling supplies and only taking out the zombies when I need to, keeping a low profile and sticking it out for the for a while, hoping things could calm down until I get my next step organised. Survival isn't always about destroying the opposition completely.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 am UTC

Lolsaur wrote:Can I ask, do you have a plan? An actual objective to aim towards? Or do you just intend to wipe out zombies?

I would have thought that the first thing to cover would be an objective, such as a safe haven to head towards (if you know for certain it is safe) or a place to defend.

Personally, my plan would be to lay low in the place I'm in, stockpiling supplies and only taking out the zombies when I need to, keeping a low profile and sticking it out for the for a while, hoping things could calm down until I get my next step organised. Survival isn't always about destroying the opposition completely.

I have a couple of plans (and sometimes they contradict each other) . . . My objective would be to clear out my town. To get everyone I can to come to my town. Rebuild the town. Form a small rebel force (the rebel force against the zombies ofcourse), sort of like a small army. Everyone who could do something would be doing something.

The first part of rebuilding the town would be using cars to block off streets so that it would be much harder for zombies to get to the town centre (Which would be the main street or town hall, depending on the amount of people that I start with) I would build barricades at the ends of the main street (like lots of cars, tables, corrugated iron, peoples fences, just things that can be used to block the end of the street). I would have people on the tops of roofs with sporting rifles, bows and bricks/spears (has anyone else noticed those fences that look like a bunch of lined up spears? I would take them apart and use them as weapons. Who likes that idea?)).

After having the main street blocked off (With all the survivors in it) I would (With some other people to help me) Extend the safe zone. We would be clearing out more of the streets surrounding the main street. The main street has a bunch of shops on it, so we would have to block off all the back doors and side entrances (which would have been done when the mail entrances and exits were blocked).

Next stop would be the supermarket, to get any food that's left. Then my team and I would go to houses that were my friends houses (the ones that I know have guns, assuming that I haven't already gone there and got the guns. Also assuming that they are dead/not around). We would be running out of ammo realy quickly. After getting guns from my friends houses, we would look for anything that could be used as a weapon/dropped on zombies/used in the barricades.

Once the safe zone/barricades have been extended, then we would only leave the safe zone to get more food.

After that, it would be setting up a new government,
Spoiler:
I would be voting communist.


By the way, most of my plans before this have been just me on my own. This plan includes other people.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:38 am UTC

Lolsaur wrote:Survival isn't always about destroying the opposition completely.

Survival is never about wiping out all opposition. Survival is just trying to stay alive in difficult conditions.

Imagine you were stuck out in the middle of the forest with no civilization anywhere. You are going to have to try to survive in one spot, living off the land, until either help arrives or you die or get forced out. And you made a spear for defense in case an animal attacks you. You wouldn't find the nearest den of grizzly bears and try killing them all with that spear you made, would you?

The same thing applies to a zombie apocalypse. If you get a fortified position set up in a huge city and have a few guns, you don't run into the nearest street filled with zombies and try killing them all. You hide in your fort, only leave when absolutely necessary, and use your weapons in defense only.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:53 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:
Lolsaur wrote:Survival isn't always about destroying the opposition completely.

Survival is never about wiping out all opposition. Survival is just trying to stay alive in difficult conditions.

Imagine you were stuck out in the middle of the forest with no civilization anywhere. You are going to have to try to survive in one spot, living off the land, until either help arrives or you die or get forced out. And you made a spear for defense in case an animal attacks you. You wouldn't find the nearest den of grizzly bears and try killing them all with that spear you made, would you?

The same thing applies to a zombie apocalypse. If you get a fortified position set up in a huge city and have a few guns, you don't run into the nearest street filled with zombies and try killing them all. You hide in your fort, only leave when absolutely necessary, and use your weapons in defence only.

I disagree with you there. If you have enough guns, you should actively defend your hideout. As in posting sharp shooters on your borders/walls to shoot any zombies they see.

Although I do agree with you on the grizzly bear thing.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jack Saladin » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:20 am UTC

Well, yeah, that's what he meant by defense.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:23 am UTC

I think we have a different threat priorities here. While I'm completely happy to leave zombies alone after finding/making a safe area, I'd be wary about other survivors. Zombies are slow, dumb and for the most part not too dangerous except for the fact they never give up - survivors are either panicky, incredibly lucky or well trained on how to survive, and a bit cautious. Zombies have hands and teeth, survivors are likely to have blades, guns, blunt force trauma and a willingness to do whatever it takes to survive. If they think they could do better by stealing your supplies and guns then moving on, they will. A zombie attack will cause mass confusion and terror, the perfect opportunity to raid/loot/build whatever kingdom you may want, and chances are other groups will be more organized than you and be ready to take over.

Dismantling fences for spears - it takes a bit of training to overcome fear and actually stab a zombie with a spear, assuming a fence around the height of the average person. Throwing spears takes a bit of upper body strength, not to mention the problems of connecting and impaling a moving target. It's probably better to simply leave them as borders to define what areas are safe and what areas are not.

Last thing: voting communist? You'll essentially be forced to share supplies, tools, equipment in the early stages and live in safe areas while protecting your territory from wandering zombies/rogues, which essentially is communism in practice.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:01 am UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:I think we have a different threat priorities here. While I'm completely happy to leave zombies alone after finding/making a safe area, I'd be wary about other survivors. Zombies are slow, dumb and for the most part not too dangerous except for the fact they never give up - survivors are either panicky, incredibly lucky or well trained on how to survive, and a bit cautious. Zombies have hands and teeth, survivors are likely to have blades, guns, blunt force trauma and a willingness to do whatever it takes to survive. If they think they could do better by stealing your supplies and guns then moving on, they will. A zombie attack will cause mass confusion and terror, the perfect opportunity to raid/loot/build whatever kingdom you may want, and chances are other groups will be more organized than you and be ready to take over.

Dismantling fences for spears - it takes a bit of training to overcome fear and actually stab a zombie with a spear, assuming a fence around the height of the average person. Throwing spears takes a bit of upper body strength, not to mention the problems of connecting and impaling a moving target. It's probably better to simply leave them as borders to define what areas are safe and what areas are not.

Last thing: voting communist? You'll essentially be forced to share supplies, tools, equipment in the early stages and live in safe areas while protecting your territory from wandering zombies/rogues, which essentially is communism in practice.

I wasn't meaning using the fence spears as a melee weapon, I was meaning using it as a throwing spear. Although they could be used as a weapon for mass arming a group of people (just think about how meny spears can be made out of the fence).

Also, about the aiming a throwing spear at a zombie at 50 m (I assume that would be the max range of it): Sure it's going to be hard, but not every spear has to hit. I would say one in every three spears thrown hitting would be the best you could get. But think about this: You will be running out of ammo at this point. A .50 cal sniper rifle is useless when you have no .50 cal left! You could have 5 or 6 people throwing the spears at the same zombie and hit it with a barrage of spears, don't you think that would damage the zombies quite well. I'm not talking about killing all the zombies, but wounding them would be beneficial because they would leave a trail of blood and be less powerful, also they would have a spear sticking out of them. Or maybe the spear impaled them onto something which stops them from moving.

If you have a bunch of zombies impaled onto a wall, you can go out and finish them off later.

As long as no one is hurt when you get the spears, then its hurting no one ('cept maybe the zombies) and its also good exercise for people. Same with throwing bricks at the zombies.

That's why I would vote communist! People would understand that they can work together and share and be equil.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Teapot » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:16 am UTC

Ignoring how unlikely the rest of your post seems, zombies would probably just keep on walking even with a spear in their chest. Zombies don't feel pain so wounding them isn't going to benefit you unless you either wound their head (wound it enough to destroy the brain and kill the zombie) or somehow stop them from being able to move (which would probably mean chopping all their limbs off, and if you're going to take that much time to do damage you might as well kill them as it's probably quicker).

I don't know if anyone has already recommend you read the Zombie Survival Guide?
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby a_heavy_object » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:36 pm UTC

i don't know about u but my favorite zombie slaying weapon is the spork jk it's tiny slug rifle (g-mod zs weapon)
it uses the cs xm1014 model but it delivers death from a cross the map
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:51 pm UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Also, about the aiming a throwing spear at a zombie at 50 m (I assume that would be the max range of it): Sure it's going to be hard, but not every spear has to hit. I would say one in every three spears thrown hitting would be the best you could get. But think about this: You will be running out of ammo at this point. A .50 cal sniper rifle is useless when you have no .50 cal left! You could have 5 or 6 people throwing the spears at the same zombie and hit it with a barrage of spears, don't you think that would damage the zombies quite well. I'm not talking about killing all the zombies, but wounding them would be beneficial because they would leave a trail of blood and be less powerful, also they would have a spear sticking out of them. Or maybe the spear impaled them onto something which stops them from moving.

For every 16-50 year old person you have in your group, you're likely to have several who are younger, and several who are older. I mention that because younger than that will not have the upper body strength needed to chuck a spear 50 meters (Seriously? 50 meters? I wouldn't rely on any sort of accuracy beyond 20 feet with a thrown spear, and you're suggesting 50 Meters?) and those older will likely lack it as well.

Now, for the individuals you have within that age group, may of them will be, even a few months in to the invasion, unsuitable for slinging spears. Guns are likely to be the weapon of choice, with baseball bats, mallets, sledgehammers and the like as close-range weapons. Yes, a person who has been swinging a sledge into skulls for the past month is going to be stronger than they were before the outbreak. They're still not going to be strong enough to throw a makeshift spear 50 meters.

The spears themselves that you're building out of fencing material... well, to craft a good throwing spear, you have to know a bit about throwing spears and their construction, how to balance them, and so on. I personally don't know a thing about them beyond that, like any throwing weapon, they have to be weighted differently than a weapon that's meant to stay in your hands.

You're also suggesting using the same spears as line weapons. They aren't long enough. You see it in movies all the time as a "Look at how badass this monster/character is" when the creature gets pieced by something, and pulls itself along the weapon (thus penetrating themselves completely) and getting close to the person holding the sword/spear/stick/whatever... a creature that feels no pain and doesn't really even care that you've pierced it will just keep right on walking. With a six-foot spear, two to three feet of it will be taken up by the wielder at first, as the person thrusts the spear into the zombie. So you've got about three feet from the person's hand to the tip of the spear - if it goes six inches in to a zombie's flesh, that means you're roughly two and a half feet away from a zombie.

I'll be honest, it's been a bit since I've measured my arms, but I'm pretty sure I can reach something two and a half feet away without any trouble. I doubt this will change when I rise as a zombie.

"But we've got shields!" you say.. alright, let's talk about that. I've got a shield to bash away zombies. It's not at all something my opponent will grab and rip away from my arm, if I'm lucky.. noo.. zombies wouldn't do that. They certainly wouldn't grab the shield and yank me in to the horde with them, to be ripped apart if I'm lucky, or slightly gnawed and left to rise again.. no. Zombies also feel pain, so they'd try to avoid my jabs with the spear, not ignore them completely and walk straight in to me, with my weapon still sticking out of them..

Oh, wait, that's exactly what they'd do. With spears that short, your line would be overrun during the first wave. If you're fighting an opponent that feels no pain and every strike from them is potentially lethal AND potentially increases their numbers by one... you want to keep them as far away as possible. If you insist on formation fighting, in a line, in a phalanx.. use pikes. Sure, give everyone a decent sledge or bat or mallet as a backup, but put a 15 foot pike in their hands.

And do it while they're standing on the top of a ten foot high wall.

And under instructions that should be obvious but need repeating all the same - if a zombie grabs a pike or it otherwise gets stuck... let it go.


An Active Defense would be, after securing your perimeter, sending parties out in trucks to do the idle slaughter. (That's where the driver idles a passenger truck around a field with one to three sharpshooters in the bed of the truck. Zombies follow the truck, sharpshooters kill the zombie. Driver does huge circles with large straightaways - like driving around the edge of a soccer field.) Sending out trucks to neighboring towns to kill zombies. Sending out search parties and dogs to try and keep the area around your walls clear, rather than waiting for the zombies to approach and killing them then.

And it's a wonderful idea when you have several thousand people and enough infrastructure and knowledge in place to make your own bullets. And a large enough supply of gasoline to run the vehicles. Without that, it's a terrible idea, and you're better off just keeping what's inside your walls safe, and ignoring the outside whenever possible.

The hard part will be surviving the first month. After that, it's just keeping other people away until you know you can trust them. Because every stranger you invite in to your group is potentially a nutter who's going to open the door and let zombies in so you will all join in Death's Embrace or whatever madness he or she may believe. Every stranger is potentially someone who's going to kill you in your sleep and use your supplies for themselves. Every stranger is potentially a scout for a raiding group, not concerned with keeping anyone else alive.

Trust is going to be a hard thing to earn, when the Zombies rise up.

*just remembers that I forget to tell everyone that my cousin is a cop*
Then you should already know that the police are going to be far too busy using their own equipment on their own force and completely unable to just hand stuff out to someone who may or may not know how to use it. And a bulletproof vest will be worthless to you.

See, bulletproof vests work because, while hitting the head is a killshot, hitting the chest is also usually a killshot (or at least completely removes the target from the fight) and the chest is a much larger target than a head. Hence - you protect the large area of body that will potentially kill you if struck by a bullet. Bulletproof vests are not the same thing as knifeproof vests, though there are vests that incorporate both technologies. The problem with that is, it's heavy, bulky, restricts your movement somewhat, can get hung up on things if you're slipping through narrow openings and completely worthless against a zombie. Zombie just has to bite your arm. Maybe a scratch is all that's needed. But a vest is worthless.

The Riot shields.. those are useful, but disposable. Yes, as I said earlier, it would be nice to have one to shove zombies back from you. But odds are the zombie's just going to grab it as you shove them backwards. Meaning you have to let go. So sure, it'll buy you a few seconds, but that's it. And with the weight of them, you may have been able to escape the situation if you didn't have it in the first place. And yes, there are the lighter plexiglass ones. They don't have the weight, but they are bulky and great things for Zombies to grab, so they have almost the exact same problems.

In the history of warfare, Armor has always been a trade-off. You sacrifice mobility for protection, the idea being the amount of protection the armor gives you is more than the protection you have from being mobile. It's better to dodge a blow, but if you cannot dodge a blow, then you try to make sure the blow can do no harm. Against Zombies, the only protection would be something like a sharkproof suit, or a full suit of plate armor.

Both of which are heavy and bulky. Both of which will slow you down and restrict your movements more than jeans and a shirt. Both of which will be worthless against an opponent who's primary mode of attack is the Grab method. A sharkproof suit would just turn you into a packet of ketchup - if the squeeze hard enough on one end, red stuff will pop out the other. A suit of plate would make you a can of tomato soup - might take a bit, but they'll eventually smash it open.

In short - there is no such thing as armor against zombies. Not yet, at least. If the development of Power Armor gets off the ground, that would be a place to look - something that encloses you completely, like plate armor, yet makes it harder if not impossible to be overwhelmed by a horde.

Another note: My school bag weighs 7KG's and I carry that around all day without a problem.
All day? Really? What the hell kind of crazy school do you go to that has no chairs and has you constantly walk around while being educated with few if any breaks?

See, most people who say they carry a bag around school all day really mean they pick it up and move it around ever hour or so, for maybe ten, fifteen minutes at a time, then they set it back down and sit down themselves and attend whichever class it happens to be, before repeating it. Sure, some people have a few hours between classes, but most of these people don't just wander around campus aimlessly, with their bag on their back or carried in their arms or whatever - they'll find a place to sit down and hang out with some people, or a wall to loiter against and set their bag beside it.

It'd be great to have the bulletproof vests around in the case of a human attack. But you'll have plenty of time to collect them a month later. During the first week? I wouldn't bother.

a_heavy_object wrote:i don't know about u but my favorite zombie slaying weapon is the spork jk it's tiny slug rifle (g-mod zs weapon)
it uses the cs xm1014 model but it delivers death from a cross the map
Only that doesn't exist.

The title is accurate. We're attacking the problem of a zombie uprising were it to happen next week. Which means modified weapons in a video game are meaningless to this discussion.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Random832 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:10 pm UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Or maybe the spear impaled them onto something which stops them from moving.

If you have a bunch of zombies impaled onto a wall, you can go out and finish them off later.


SecondTalon said most of my objections better than I could, but I'd just like to emphasize:

They are not going to get impaled to a wall. There's just no way. You are not going to be able to provide enough force to penetrate any exterior wall of any building with a wooden fence post. Drywall/plaster interior walls, on the other hand, your spear's not going to stick in and prevent the zombie from leaving. The best you could possibly do is impale them into loose dirt, and honestly probably not even that if you're throwing the makeshift "spear". And if you're badass enough to do even that you should really just kill them right then.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Oh, wait, that's exactly what they'd do. With spears that short, your line would be overrun during the first wave. If you're fighting an opponent that feels no pain and every strike from them is potentially lethal AND potentially increases their numbers by one... you want to keep them as far away as possible. If you insist on formation fighting, in a line, in a phalanx.. use pikes. Sure, give everyone a decent sledge or bat or mallet as a backup, but put a 15 foot pike in their hands.

And do it while they're standing on the top of a ten foot high wall.
If you're at that point of a barricade ~10 feet high with no ammo, I'd say grab some wheelbarrels full of bricks, or rocks around the size of footballs. If they're at the base of the barricade to climb your wall, little to no aiming is needed to give them brain damage. (If zombies suffer from brain damage, or concussions..) Just line the rock up with the head below. When the coast is clear, people can run out with sledgehammers to kill some zombies and get the rocks/pikes back.

Edit on last sentence to make a bit more sense.
Last edited by Jebobek on Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:03 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:26 pm UTC

As someone who has tried to sling Hawaiian spears into a banana trunk from ten feet away, let me tell you that it is hard work. Out of the few hundred people we had at the festival, I saw maybe twenty people pierce the trunk, maybe five people get the spear half a foot in. Half a foot is not enough to impale anyone against anything, let alone cause serious damage. There's also the issue of "do bones rot with the flesh?" Fence posts are not shaped and would require time to fashion into spears assuming you don't have pressboard, then you'll need basic training (hint: aim with a arc due to gravity and all that), then hope that you'll be able to pierce through flesh and bone in order to impale a zombie or weigh the zombie down so it's unable to move. Considering that time could better be put to use scavenging for supplies, resting the cost/benefit ratio is very low.

What could you do with fences? If you had time, instead of having them stick straight up you could entrench them at an angle. Give you a little more space, possibility of hurting them.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby wst » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:59 pm UTC

Flesh_Of_The_Fallen_Angel wrote:Also, about the aiming a throwing spear at a zombie at 50 m (I assume that would be the max range of it)
50m? That's half a (UK) football pitch. You're really not going to learn to throw anything that far for ages. Especially, as others have said, extruded mild steel.

However, fence posts would be useful for supporting razor wire to hold zombies back a bit. And also for punji pits (though these will fill up if a megahorde runs at you... have a fence behind the punji pit, and have the pit more like a trench...)
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

Olympic level male javelin throwers often achieve distances above 90m, so a non-olympic class athlete with a good deal of training could probably swing 50.

I'm not really sure what a piercing weapon is expected to do to a zombie, though. They generally don't need their organs.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:55 pm UTC

The only thing that makes a trench seem like a bad idea to me is.. kinda the same thing that makes non-fireproof walls a bad idea - even if you kill the zombies, you'll eventually have to send out a cleanup crew.

I wish I could remember the fire resistance of cinder blocks... Basically, I figure those would make an excellent long-term wall construction material and, if resistant enough, will allow you to set fire to the bodies once a week or so to hopefully clean some of them out and not end up with a dead body ramp.

Though now that I think about it, the temperatures won't be close to what's needed to incinerate a body. Hmmm.

There may not be a choice beyond sending out cleanup crews every now and again to dispose of the remains.

Olympic level male javelin throwers often achieve distances above 90m, so a non-olympic class athlete with a good deal of training could probably swing 50.
Distance. No accuracy. How many Olympic level javelin throwers could hit a pumpkin at 50 meters? Because - let's face it - that's about the size of your killzone.

Not to mention - they're using a javelin. An olympic-level throwing javelin. Not a metal rod hammered in to a straight line and roughly sharpened on one end. Wikipedia gives it's weight at under two pounds.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby ArchangelShrike » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:02 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:Olympic level male javelin throwers often achieve distances above 90m with specially designed javelins, so a non-olympic class athlete with a good deal of training taking days or weeks could probably swing 50 with horrible accuracy.


If I had the manpower and resources to build trenches, possibly. As it is, I'd probably leave the ground as it is, except for a building a fire pit. Rotting corpses everywhere cannot be good for sanitation, and even though fuel would be a problem it'd be a requirement I'd think. Cleanup crews: move bodies out of way, and burn them. Or you could light the whole trench on fire with enough accelerant, although that might attract too many zombies... there's plenty of ways to kill zombies again, but not what to do with the bodies.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Nifar » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

And see, the problems surrounding clean-up and disposal of the bodies, not to mention the problems of securing a place for extended use, are why I'm thinking about just staying on the run. I'm considering getting into parkour/free running. First because it looks interesting, and I'm certainly agile enough for it, and second, because it could probably help me stay alive in the case of a zombie invasion. It would be especially useful when I have to venture into cities to resupply.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Mo0man » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:38 pm UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:
Gunfingers wrote:Olympic level male javelin throwers often achieve distances above 90m with specially designed javelins, so a non-olympic class athlete with a good deal of training taking days or weeks could probably swing 50 with horrible accuracy.


If I had the manpower and resources to build trenches, possibly. As it is, I'd probably leave the ground as it is, except for a building a fire pit. Rotting corpses everywhere cannot be good for sanitation, and even though fuel would be a problem it'd be a requirement I'd think. Cleanup crews: move bodies out of way, and burn them. Or you could light the whole trench on fire with enough accelerant, although that might attract too many zombies... there's plenty of ways to kill zombies again, but not what to do with the bodies.

If fire attracts zombies, then bonfires would be a much better weapon than I thought
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:44 pm UTC

Nifar wrote:And see, the problems surrounding clean-up and disposal of the bodies, not to mention the problems of securing a place for extended use, are why I'm thinking about just staying on the run. I'm considering getting into parkour/free running. First because it looks interesting, and I'm certainly agile enough for it, and second, because it could probably help me stay alive in the case of a zombie invasion. It would be especially useful when I have to venture into cities to resupply.

I think you'd still need a semi-permanent base, or several bases. Just so you'd have a safe place to sleep from time to time.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Gunfingers » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:53 pm UTC

I don't know why i'm arguing this, since i'm fully aware that javelins are a retarded idea for killing zombies. But i guess this is better than working.

Given that javelins were a staple of warfare for hundreds of thousands of years, there's a good chance that they can be used effectively at something approaching a long range. Wikipedia estimates the effective range of a roman pilum to be 15-20m. That's the only one it gives a range for, though some are listed as being capable of working further than that. Accuracy and range aren't the problem. With a few weeks of practice i'm confident i could put a reasonably straight, reasonably sharp stick through someone from 10m. The problem is that this accomplishes nothing except being charged by a zombie with a stick in him.

This does raise a question about what subsequent generations will do, though. What if most of society is destroyed, and only small pockets of humanity remain alive, surviving as they can? We're going to have to try to build safe areas so that we can grow and cultivate food to stay alive. I guess by finding a way to wall off a few acres of land out in the middle of nowhere. HESCO barriers seem ideal, but it doesn't seem likely we'd be able to get hold of them. Maybe digging a pit and piling all the extra dirt next to the pit to make a dirt berm. We could fortify that later with a colonial style palisade, maybe?

Or possibly a nomadic lifestyle. This would depend on the ability to find sufficient sources of food, so if the zombies kill off all the animals it probably wouldn't work.

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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Berengal » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:59 pm UTC

Zombies are "afraid" of fire in most material I've encountered. In Dawn of the Dead even a small propane burner was enough to keep the hordes at bay. They could be attracted to it, but probably not any more than the usual zombie "oo, shiny" attraction they sometimes show for peculiar things. Whatever zombies might find peculiar.

If you've got the resources, time and skill for it, a self-cleansing pit of fire would probably be a good investment. This would likely only be feasible in a permanent stronghold consisting of many humans though.

If you really want to go the thrown weapon route, I think the roman way of flimsy javelins that bend on impact would be the way to go. Note that the romans used these at ranges of 20 meters, and they presumably knew what throwing javelins in combat was about. Still, it would be inferior to bow and arrow, or the obvious answer, guns. It could potentially be used as a source of afternoon entertainment though, since there's probably not going to be many tv shows on.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:00 pm UTC

Oh yea, by the way.. concerning barriers and walls: are zombies climbers? HESCO looks like it has something a combie can dig their fingers into as they pull themselves up. Im sure this was brought up earlier. Scanning..

EDIT: Yea, ok. Page 15. I don't mind them going up stairs because that means you've got a funneling tactic. If they can climb up sandbags that would suck: you'd have to resort to something along the lines of a brick building or possibly a wall made out of wooden logs from hastily cut down trees? Ok the tree thing is probably going to far.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Nifar » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Nifar wrote:And see, the problems surrounding clean-up and disposal of the bodies, not to mention the problems of securing a place for extended use, are why I'm thinking about just staying on the run. I'm considering getting into parkour/free running. First because it looks interesting, and I'm certainly agile enough for it, and second, because it could probably help me stay alive in the case of a zombie invasion. It would be especially useful when I have to venture into cities to resupply.

I think you'd still need a semi-permanent base, or several bases. Just so you'd have a safe place to sleep from time to time.

Well yes, but it would be something along the lines of "sleep in a marked safehouse for the night, or find a likely place, clear it out completely, then sleep there after setting up barricades, and mark it as safe before I leave in the morning.

Edit: just for the record, I don't have anything against turtling, but unless an already existing fortress is willing to take me on in exchange for my supplies and help, I don't see myself holding up in one spot for longer than a few nights. Mostly this is because I wouldn't know what to do, with out someone telling me what needs to be done.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:43 pm UTC

... so, yeah, get to Louisville as fast as you can, because I've got some decent long-term ideas, I just need bodies to make it all work.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Jebobek » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:56 pm UTC

Does your plans involve building a lava waterfall? Be honest.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:03 pm UTC

As far as I know, Louisville is nowhere near any sort of geothermic activity, much less volcanic.

...damnit.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Nifar » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:05 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:... so, yeah, get to Louisville as fast as you can, because I've got some decent long-term ideas, I just need bodies to make it all work.

Sounds good, although it'd probably take a while to get from Atlanta to Louisville.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Upsilon » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:00 am UTC

I'm probably better off where I am now. Small (less than 1300 people) town, lots of farmland and plenty of animals to hunt, a reservoir of water that can easily be purified... Plus nearly everyone owns and can maintain a gun.
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Re: Taking it seriously: The zombie problem

Postby Azrael001 » Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:02 am UTC

My granddad is a gunsmith, and my family lives out in the country. Double plus good.
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