Touhou!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:10 am UTC

IN's ludicrously huge deathbombing window is countered by the fact that it burns two bombs. I try not to rely on it too much, or use the Border Girls.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Poochy » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:01 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:... but PCB seems smaller than SA for me.

I'm not sure, but I think MoF and SA had bigger bullet hitboxes than the previous games. Also, Marisa has a slightly bigger hitbox than Reimu in SA, possibly MoF as well.

The bullet hitboxes seem to be back to normal as of UFO, though.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 pm UTC

Poochy wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:... but PCB seems smaller than SA for me.

I'm not sure, but I think MoF and SA had bigger bullet hitboxes than the previous games. Also, Marisa has a slightly bigger hitbox than Reimu in SA, possibly MoF as well.

The bullet hitboxes seem to be back to normal as of UFO, though.


I meant deathbombing windows. SA seems way easier than PCB for me.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Wyvern » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:41 pm UTC

The one thing that endlessly frustrates me about these games is how the hitboxes feel so arbitrary.... I mean sure, they're not going to change while you're playing, but It's as if I need to die 30 times to figure out their size and shape and I can't seem to figure it out at all. It's frustrating. I don't know why the hitboxes just can't be the same size as the thing you're controlling.


And yes, I suck horribly at these kinds of games. I couldn't get past level 3 in Ikaruga. >.>

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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

Well, typically it's the size of the dot when you're focusing but can sometimes be smaller.

Don't worry, it's difficult initially but after a while you'll get a feel for where it is exactly and it'll be natural to move around and dodge even if you take your eyes off your character (well... unless the field is dense).
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Poochy » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:26 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:I meant deathbombing windows. SA seems way easier than PCB for me.

Ah. Yeah, the input lag in PCB applies to the bomb button, so it also happens to make the effective deathbomb window smaller. The only time I can successfully deathbomb on PCB is when I actually see the bullet coming and am reacting to "oh crap, I'm about to get hit" instead of "oh crap, I just got hit". I suppose it kinda offsets the difference that bombs are quite powerful in PCB, but in SA are nigh useless (save for ReimuA).

Also, is it just me, or did the deathbomb window grow again in UFO? It feels about the same as the deathbomb window in IN when you have 1 bomb left and get hit outside of a spell card.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:58 am UTC

Poochy wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:I meant deathbombing windows. SA seems way easier than PCB for me.

Ah. Yeah, the input lag in PCB applies to the bomb button, so it also happens to make the effective deathbomb window smaller. The only time I can successfully deathbomb on PCB is when I actually see the bullet coming and am reacting to "oh crap, I'm about to get hit" instead of "oh crap, I just got hit". I suppose it kinda offsets the difference that bombs are quite powerful in PCB, but in SA are nigh useless (save for ReimuA).

Also, is it just me, or did the deathbomb window grow again in UFO? It feels about the same as the deathbomb window in IN when you have 1 bomb left and get hit outside of a spell card.


Yeah that's basically how it is for me... I thought it was intended that it was a "Ok I am getting hit in the next split second" thing in PCB.

As for UFO I think it's bigger than SA, and they seem to be more useful too, especially Sanae's bomb.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Poochy » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:08 pm UTC

Yeah, UFO's bombs are generally much, MUCH more useful than SA's (which is still an extreme understatement), with the exception of MarisaB. UFO has useful bombs; SA's bombs were basically utterly useless (ReimuA aside).
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

Yeah I dread bombing sometimes in SA... the only time I dread having to bomb is on Hourai Doll because it screws up my dodging (and she's immune to it on hourai doll).

Bombing on Byakuren's Flying Bowl isn't as horrible but the last time I got there I died with like 2 seconds to go.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:22 am UTC

Why exactly are stage 4 bosses so freakin' hard? I mean seriously, the Prismriver sisters (specifically Merlin), Marisa, and Patchouli all seem harder than there respective games stage 5 bosses.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:40 am UTC

I donno... Orin, Shou... I think Youmu is harder than the Prismriver Sisters.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:25 am UTC

Maybe it's just the pre-MoF bosses, but on my practice runthroughs with Sakyua, against Merlin Prismriver, I averaged about 3 deaths on her beginning pattern alone, while against Youmu, I hit about that many against her entire stage. Also, that fairy right before the sisters either kills me, or I have to bomb. I blame her (Merlin) curvy lasers that blend in to the background of the stage.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:32 am UTC

I admittedly don't really play Sakuya much on PCB.

Actually I find Prismriver's non spells to be harder than Youmu's non-spells but I think overall Youmu is still harder.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:38 am UTC

Eh, once i figured out how to use the slowdown effect of youmus to more precisely move, I found her spellcards to be fairly easy.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:58 am UTC

Actually no, you're probably right.

I don't play PCB much at all and the one time I finally beat Youmu and got to Yuyuko and died on Ressurection it was the first time seeing Youmu's latter cards so I didn't know how to do them... because all other attempts prior I lost all my lives before Youmu.

I should probably put in another PCB attempt.


Edit: Every time I play PCB I'll have some stupid death due to input lag and then I'll get frustrated and quit.


Edit2: Found a patch that might help. Trying it out.'


Edit3: HOLY SHIT! IT WORKS! It even makes the menu come up instantly when I press esc instead of lagging for 20 seconds! HOLY SHIT!


Edit4: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=357.0 Scroll down to the post by "Phar" . It can also patch th06 through to th11!

Edit5: WHOA I JUST DEATH BOMBED ON PCB!

Edit6: Just beat Prismriver sisters without losing a life.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:48 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sib2L6A6xgw

It's hard to choose a best scene.. Flandre Grinning is excellent. I love Patchouli so seeing her bob to the music was so unbelievably cute. The Prismriver Sister's scene is so unbelievably well animated (well the whole lot of it is).
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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:13 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sib2L6A6xgw

It's hard to choose a best scene.. Flandre Grinning is excellent. I love Patchouli so seeing her bob to the music was so unbelievably cute. The Prismriver Sister's scene is so unbelievably well animated (well the whole lot of it is).

Ah, Bad Apple!! I've watched that so many times over the last week. It seems like every time I visit walfas I watch it.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:42 am UTC

Arrrrrgh CURVEY LASERS!!!!

If Toramaru ever makes it into one of the fighters she is going to be my main...

On a side note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N45W1NhzYrY <--- Awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwwcH5LF-WY <--- Awesome Too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNItei3WRQM <--- Amazing.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:50 pm UTC

On that note, WAVE is pretty damn awesome too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nYwHXJY-7s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-eensMhO_k<--- This arrangement made Bloom nobly, cherry blossoms of Sumizome ~ Border of Life My favorite song from Touhou
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:07 am UTC

WHY DON'T I HAVE THIS YET!?
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Kag » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:18 am UTC

I've been broadening my shmup horizons lately, and I just wanted to say that any fans of Touhou should check out the Castle of Shikigami series. It has a lot of similar gameplay concepts, but with lots of small differences that make me like it a whole lot more.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:50 am UTC

Looking at YT videos... the sound effects is unbelievably annoying and this guy who is playing isn't even dodging he just rams all the bullets with a shield and never has to dodge.

The bosses also seem to die exceedingly fast with this character half the time beating the "Spell card" before the bullets reach him...

Anyway to me it looks like if Touhou had updated graphics, annoying SFX, and had all it's soul sucked out of it. Still might be a fun game... just doesn't look like my cup of tea. Valkyrie Sky also seems alright.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Kag » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:59 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Looking at YT videos... the sound effects is unbelievably annoying and this guy who is playing isn't even dodging he just rams all the bullets with a shield and never has to dodge.


A. The sound effects in EoSD are way more intrusive. I compared the games side-by-side, objectively. There is absolutely no contest.

B. Play R-type for a while before you talk about shields, which only one character has.

If the video you were watching was playing Dramatic Switch mode, it doesn't really count.

Anyway, my point is that the games are pretty similar in terms of shmup "flavor," but the effects of the choices you make are more pronounced. For example, grazing is both an important part of the scoring system, but has obvious direct benefits as well.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:51 pm UTC

Kag wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Looking at YT videos... the sound effects is unbelievably annoying and this guy who is playing isn't even dodging he just rams all the bullets with a shield and never has to dodge.


A. The sound effects in EoSD are way more intrusive. I compared the games side-by-side, objectively. There is absolutely no contest.


Why not compare UFO/SA with Castle of Shikigami III ...?

B. Play R-type for a while before you talk about shields.


I've played R-type... what does that have to do with this character I'm watching never dodging at all and solely blocking bullets entirely? It's not like a bomb and limited use or something... this guy is literally using it every time a bullet comes near him.

It's entirely possible people might prefer these gameplay mechanics so I'm not really going to hold it as something against the game as a whole (though it's probably a reason why I'll like it less). The biggest problem for me is that it just seems so "This is a shump and you shoot baddies in it" than Touhou is... partially I think this is because of Touhou's huge amount of fan-created media... but it's also the aesthetic and the atmosphere and the gameplay that makes Touhou seem less like that and more like.... well as one person I remember putting it "Touhou is more like art than a game"... for me it seems to be made to suck me in and make me feel good even when I'm frustrated from curvey lasers.

Basically... to me it feels so cold and lifeless, something which I'm supposed to play for a while then once I get bored it becomes work... Valkyrie Sky is pretty much the same, but slightly less so simply because it's an MMORPG (and so the social aspect takes effect in that case).
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Poochy » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:45 pm UTC

Kag wrote:The sound effects in EoSD are way more intrusive. I compared the games side-by-side, objectively. There is absolutely no contest.

That's like saying you like Chevys better than Toyotas because a brand new Chevy car runs better than a 20-year-old Toyota that's never seen a mechanic.

Try comparing to a more recent Touhou game. As far as I know, EoSD was ZUN's first attempt at making anything for Windows using DirectX. The sound data files are even in way-outdated formats, something not seen in any Touhou game after it.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Kag » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:48 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:I've played R-type... what does that have to do with this character I'm watching never dodging at all and solely blocking bullets entirely? It's not like a bomb and limited use or something... this guy is literally using it every time a bullet comes near him.


Because the shield in R-Type is about infinity times more generous, but that game is still not easy at all. Ise's shield is literally impossible to use on reaction (revenge bullets will always have to be dodged), and can never block bullets from the back or side, and forces you to stop shooting. If you go in thinking you can just shield everything you will die horribly. In the event that you don't die horribly, everyone will laugh at you because your score will be so bad.

Also Ise does crap damage so the bosses that shoot you from crazy angles you'll have to fight a lot longer unless you use the tension bonus like a madman.

That's like saying you like Chevys better than Toyotas because a brand new Chevy car runs better than a 20-year-old Toyota that's never seen a mechanic.


Huh? I compared it to the first game, which came out before EoSD.

Newer Touhou games are quieter (only one I had on hand was IN, apparently, but it looks like UFO uses the same effects for the stuff that isn't new anyway), but not quite as much as CoS. The sound effects have never bothered me, anyway. The complaint just seemed ridiculous.

Gelsamel wrote: The biggest problem for me is that it just seems so "This is a shump and you shoot baddies in it" than Touhou is


That's because Touhou isn't about shooting dudes. It's about dodging bullets (and girls in funny hats). The game would be practically identical if you didn't shoot, which is weird and kind of awesome at the same time.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:58 am UTC

Well it's not like I'm saying it's a horrible game or something, I was just saying why I didn't like it.

I think you're right saying Touhou is more about dodge than shoot (especially considering CoS has those target points on bosses). But also it's just much more "artish" than CoS. Consider the 3d Background... CoS seems to be more "You're flying over a city" or something and Touhou is more "The half-abstract background indicates you're in some spooky dark type place" and the danmaku is made to be pretty and artful than made for gameplay purposes. I think this "it's art" continues through most aspects of Touhou.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:01 am UTC

So um... 1.00b of UFO... what the FUCK did they change!? I've gone from at least being able to get upto Byakuren with enough lives to make me hopeful to.... having like 1 life when I get to Byakuren... I fucking swear to god I'm being hit by random shit that should not have FUCKING HIT ME and some stuff which is invisible and there is this little fucking line near the top of the screen where the graphics aren't displaying properly or some shit. What the fuck!?
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:40 am UTC

In other non-frustration related news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivVoqUO3_0

Is amazing.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Poochy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:03 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:So um... 1.00b of UFO... what the FUCK did they change!?

The update notes only say two things that were changed: The red UFOs and mini-UFO items were made darker in color, and a glitch that caused the game to crash trying to display 10-digit scores was fixed.
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:45 am UTC

FINALLY BEAT BYAKUREN ON THE TRAIN DOWN TO UNI!

Also this is AWESOME: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYwVePPGhIk
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Re: Touhou!

Postby wst » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:50 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sib2L6A6xgw

It's hard to choose a best scene.. Flandre Grinning is excellent. I love Patchouli so seeing her bob to the music was so unbelievably cute. The Prismriver Sister's scene is so unbelievably well animated (well the whole lot of it is).
Someone had some time :D
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Re: Touhou!

Postby UMOP » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:26 am UTC

wst wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sib2L6A6xgw

It's hard to choose a best scene.. Flandre Grinning is excellent. I love Patchouli so seeing her bob to the music was so unbelievably cute. The Prismriver Sister's scene is so unbelievably well animated (well the whole lot of it is).
Someone had some time :D
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:30 am UTC

UMOP wrote:
wst wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sib2L6A6xgw

It's hard to choose a best scene.. Flandre Grinning is excellent. I love Patchouli so seeing her bob to the music was so unbelievably cute. The Prismriver Sister's scene is so unbelievably well animated (well the whole lot of it is).
Someone had some time :D
Stop Motion version

That's how they made it, you know.


Hahahahaha, that was both frustrating and hilariously stupid.
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- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

xepher
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am UTC

Re: Touhou!

Postby xepher » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:49 pm UTC

Spoiler Spoiler. 12.5 is OUT.



ACTUAL SPOILER:
Spoiler:
It has a new character. Her name is Hatate. She's another journalist. She is also the "spoiler level" boss. You can play as her when you get all the spell cards up to spoiler level.

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Rogles
Posts: 9
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Location: Caledonia, MI, USA
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Re: Touhou!

Postby Rogles » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:23 am UTC

I love Touhou. And shmups in general. I've been into danmaku for around 3 years, I'm pretty sure. Imperishable Night and Mountain of Faith are probably my favorites. Love the music/remixes too; Demetori is amazing.

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Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:48 am UTC

xepher wrote:Spoiler Spoiler. 12.5 is OUT.



ACTUAL SPOILER:
Spoiler:
It has a new character. Her name is Hatate. She's another journalist. She is also the "spoiler level" boss. You can play as her when you get all the spell cards up to spoiler level.



Image

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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hideki101
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 5:50 pm UTC
Location: everywhere and nowhere

Re: Touhou!

Postby hideki101 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:48 am UTC

What's the big no about? the curvy lasers? To be honest, that card of Shou's didn't really scare me all too much, but some of her other ones did.
Albert Einistein wrote:"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

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Gelsamel
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Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Touhou!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:51 am UTC

hideki101 wrote:What's the big no about? the curvy lasers? To be honest, that card of Shou's didn't really scare me all too much, but some of her other ones did.


Curvy lasers are evil, and 'that card'? The curvy lasers weren't spellcards. I will assume you're talking about 12.5 which I have not played yet, I just hate curvy lasers.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

xepher
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am UTC

Re: Touhou!

Postby xepher » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:01 pm UTC

I don't get the big no either. I am actually at stage 5 already :P It's not as hard as shoot the bullet from my perspective.


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