You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Rakysh
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Mon May 11, 2009 4:25 pm UTC

Ok, I'm gonna give an above ground fort a go, with just farms and storage below. Wish me luck.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon May 11, 2009 4:26 pm UTC

Why not above-ground farms? And above-ground storage isn't that hard to make, if you let yourself mine.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Mon May 11, 2009 5:19 pm UTC

I like me my plump helmet. Honestly, it's just cos I'm a bit lazy, but like the idea of a castle.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Tue May 12, 2009 10:27 am UTC

NO! I can't believe it! The water finds a way, ALWAYS! This time I seriously thought I had walled off all its possible outlets, but now it has leaked several of my major stockpile areas. These rooms are far too big to be walled off, especially with most of the stone gone to aboveground constructions. Even as I write, the water is flowing into my magma factory, putting out one smelter after the other. Attempted to finally block the place where it entered the fortress in the first place by caving in the corridor. In the process, I was silly enough to punch a channel down into it, oblivious to water pressure. Oops! Three miners drowned. This fortress is a disaster.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue May 12, 2009 12:01 pm UTC

I modded my game the tiny amount necessary to play as humans. I'm working on building an above ground town right now, with buildings made of chalk blocks and floors made of logs (wood blocks add a stunning 2 to the value, so I said screw it).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby NieXS » Sun May 17, 2009 6:41 am UTC

I just got a meta engraving.

"Engraved on the floor is a superiorly designed image of a dwarf by Likot Arkimmeng. The dwarf is engraving."

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Sun May 17, 2009 8:18 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:I modded my game the tiny amount necessary to play as humans. I'm working on building an above ground town right now, with buildings made of chalk blocks and floors made of logs (wood blocks add a stunning 2 to the value, so I said screw it).

I've always wanted to make dwarf Rohan, with all wood cottages and the only stone building a great hall made from imported rock. My economy would be based on leather goods and wood crafts, and I'd mod in war horses and try to get some legendary descent lines going there. Unfortunately, right now I'm at the point where the next release is getting somewhat close, and all the new things that will be in it sound so cool that I don't really want to play the old version. :( Oh well. It's probably for the best anyway, since I really should be studying instead.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Sun May 17, 2009 9:34 am UTC

I've got ramparts up, a strawberry farm (I decided to give above ground farming a try) as well as a block of flats. I'm gonna stick the metal production on a platform a few z levels up. Twill be awesome.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Hitoversit » Mon May 18, 2009 3:26 am UTC

I don't know if anyone has already, but oceanside forts are very fun. I recently had one on a volcanic island, got the idea of building a string of glass lighthouses all along the coast. Some clever 'gaps' in the towers caused mist from the crashing waves to spray into people walking up the inner steps (keeping them clean and giving them happy thoughts). Then I constructed a pier for fishermen, and laid traps all along the coast (then moved the lobsters/oysters/fish down into the sleeping quarters and started some aquariums). The ocean environment wasn't horrible either, could even watch fish defensively ball up as they were hunted by larger predators (like sailfish).

Honestly, I just love the variance and complexity the game goes into. Graphics are a bit low, but endearing once you understand them. The fight system is so complex it puts D&D to shame. [I once bit out a trolls throat after it crushed my hands]. Plus you can create some pretty pleasing fortress designs that are damn efficient too.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Mon May 18, 2009 2:30 pm UTC

Hitoversit wrote:I don't know if anyone has already, but oceanside forts are very fun. I recently had one on a volcanic island, got the idea of building a string of glass lighthouses all along the coast. Some clever 'gaps' in the towers caused mist from the crashing waves to spray into people walking up the inner steps (keeping them clean and giving them happy thoughts). Then I constructed a pier for fishermen, and laid traps all along the coast (then moved the lobsters/oysters/fish down into the sleeping quarters and started some aquariums). The ocean environment wasn't horrible either, could even watch fish defensively ball up as they were hunted by larger predators (like sailfish).

Honestly, I just love the variance and complexity the game goes into. Graphics are a bit low, but endearing once you understand them. The fight system is so complex it puts D&D to shame. [I once bit out a trolls throat after it crushed my hands]. Plus you can create some pretty pleasing fortress designs that are damn efficient too.


That sounds really, really awesome.

So, after trying it for a while, I think the only way I could ever be happy playing as humans is if I limited my population to 10 or so the game would run fast enough to make building above ground buildings out of stone blocks and wood logs something other than an exercise in masochism, and then maybe I could increase the population.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Mon May 18, 2009 4:08 pm UTC

Hitoversit wrote:I don't know if anyone has already, but oceanside forts are very fun. I recently had one on a volcanic island, got the idea of building a string of glass lighthouses all along the coast. Some clever 'gaps' in the towers caused mist from the crashing waves to spray into people walking up the inner steps (keeping them clean and giving them happy thoughts). Then I constructed a pier for fishermen, and laid traps all along the coast (then moved the lobsters/oysters/fish down into the sleeping quarters and started some aquariums). The ocean environment wasn't horrible either, could even watch fish defensively ball up as they were hunted by larger predators (like sailfish).

Honestly, I just love the variance and complexity the game goes into. Graphics are a bit low, but endearing once you understand them. The fight system is so complex it puts D&D to shame. [I once bit out a trolls throat after it crushed my hands]. Plus you can create some pretty pleasing fortress designs that are damn efficient too.

I want to do something like this, or an underwater fortress... The problem is that the only way that is possible is by first making it and then letting water into the surroundings, no? Feel free to correct me.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 18, 2009 4:11 pm UTC

As near as I know, you're more or less right. I mean, if you just carved out deep trenches around a solid block, let the water fill the trenches THEN came from below or something and carved the fortress in the block, that'd work. But I don't know of any way, outside of a massive pumping system, to push back enough water to let you construct things.

And I've yet to try something like that on an ocean. Doing it on a river/brook takes me about five pumps to make sure it's cleared out enough to build.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon May 18, 2009 4:52 pm UTC

I think he's talking about picking a starting position that's on an actual coast- but as I've never embarked to one of those, I don't know how frequent the waves are, etc.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 18, 2009 5:37 pm UTC

Ah, they're frequent and watery enough to cancel orders if a dwarf is walking along and gets hit by a wave. I need to experiment more with waves to say anything definitive.

But yeah, you should try a coastal fort for the hell of it.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Dibley » Mon May 18, 2009 8:26 pm UTC

One tremendously badass way to make an underwater fort is to build a form above you're desired patch of ocean, use it to cast an enormous block of solid obsidian, drop it into the water, and either carve up from below or make it tall enough to breach the surface. For bonus points drop a foundation block and then cast an obsidian tower on it.

I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. I started it once, but ended up giving up after a tragic accident after a tragic mining accident collapsed the roof above the pumping operation in the magma pipe and flooded my tunnels with magma.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Mon May 18, 2009 8:40 pm UTC

Dibley wrote:One tremendously badass way to make an underwater fort is to build a form above you're desired patch of ocean, use it to cast an enormous block of solid obsidian, drop it into the water, and either carve up from below or make it tall enough to breach the surface. For bonus points drop a foundation block and then cast an obsidian tower on it.

I've never heard of anyone doing this, but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. I started it once, but ended up giving up after a tragic accident after a tragic mining accident collapsed the roof above the pumping operation in the magma pipe and flooded my tunnels with magma.


I WOULD do that, but I've never really tried experimenting with dropping stuff myself. That's why I'm unsure... I thought walls and such collapsed to the stones it was made from when they're dropped? Or maybe the reason that would work is that it's solid obsidian?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Dibley » Mon May 18, 2009 10:54 pm UTC

Did you just propose a dwarven magma based 3d printer? DO WANT.

However, I'm not sure that it would work. As I recall, dropping magma onto water makes an obsidian floor on top of the water, which, being unsupported, collapses, leaving obsidian rocks on the ocean floor. I've never tried it though... Anyone have experimental data?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon May 18, 2009 11:36 pm UTC

The 3D printer should work if you do it on land. I would recommend dropping water onto magma, though, instead of magma onto water- not only is the mist less toxic, but you need less bauxite.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Thu May 21, 2009 2:06 pm UTC

Just a quick question. Can anyone confirm is water always fall strait down or if there might be splashes off the sides? In the past, I've always taken precautions by installing more grates than necesary, but I need to be sure for my new design. (Of course, I could use grates as well... But I only leave one square for the falling water anyhow.
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Thu May 21, 2009 2:09 pm UTC

Phen wrote:Just a quick question. Can anyone confirm is water always fall strait down or if there might be splashes off the sides? In the past, I've always taken precautions by installing more grates than necesary, but I need to be sure for my new design. (Of course, I could use grates as well... But I only leave one square for the falling water anyhow.
I have seen water fall to the sides, or at least those areas get muddy (I don't remember whether or not I actually saw a unit of water there).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu May 21, 2009 2:18 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Phen wrote:Just a quick question. Can anyone confirm is water always fall strait down or if there might be splashes off the sides? In the past, I've always taken precautions by installing more grates than necesary, but I need to be sure for my new design. (Of course, I could use grates as well... But I only leave one square for the falling water anyhow.
I have seen water fall to the sides, or at least those areas get muddy (I don't remember whether or not I actually saw a unit of water there).


If only one unit of water falls, then I don't think it will splash. But if more than one falls I think odds are pretty good it will go all over the place. I usually use a 3x3 hole with the water falling in the center, and it never gets outside of the hole.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Thu May 21, 2009 4:25 pm UTC

Alright. The idea I got is to make a waterfall fall beside the central staircase, but if it doesn't fall strait down I'll have to move it back one square then. Don't want them to get wet. And I figure that I might have to use grates, so they won't get knocked off and all the way down.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu May 21, 2009 4:47 pm UTC

Phen wrote:Alright. The idea I got is to make a waterfall fall beside the central staircase, but if it doesn't fall strait down I'll have to move it back one square then. Don't want them to get wet. And I figure that I might have to use grates, so they won't get knocked off and all the way down.


If they get wet, they stay clean.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Thu May 21, 2009 4:53 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:If they get wet, they stay clean.
But they also track mud throughout the fortress! Mud!
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu May 21, 2009 5:22 pm UTC

Re: Falling Water

I think what happens sometimes is you get 2/7 or more water segments in one square falling through Z-space. In it's round-by-round check to see what happens, if there's 2/7 in one square and no water in the surrounding squares, the game moves the water to a *random* square to the side, THEN notes that the water squares are not on ground and triggers a fall to the next Z level.

The result being that yes, water does spread out as it falls sometimes. It does it often enough to flood a room to the point of causing dwarves to be pulled out of it and fall to their screaming deaths, as I discovered when I made a meeting room below a waterfall with an entire wall open to the sky so they could watch the water better.

...

Yeah, I fixed my design by forcing the water to go another block out before it fell - no more water in the meeting room, no more dwarves falling to their deaths. The wall grates I set up helped too.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Thu May 21, 2009 6:23 pm UTC

Wet dwarves are happy, I believe. They definitely enjoy seeing mist.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Thu May 21, 2009 7:42 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Re: Falling Water

I think what happens sometimes is you get 2/7 or more water segments in one square falling through Z-space. In it's round-by-round check to see what happens, if there's 2/7 in one square and no water in the surrounding squares, the game moves the water to a *random* square to the side, THEN notes that the water squares are not on ground and triggers a fall to the next Z level.

The result being that yes, water does spread out as it falls sometimes. It does it often enough to flood a room to the point of causing dwarves to be pulled out of it and fall to their screaming deaths, as I discovered when I made a meeting room below a waterfall with an entire wall open to the sky so they could watch the water better.

...

Yeah, I fixed my design by forcing the water to go another block out before it fell - no more water in the meeting room, no more dwarves falling to their deaths. The wall grates I set up helped too.

Which is why I think putting in grates at each level would be a good plan.

I still need to get the water all the way up to there first, of course. And maybe through a chasm. Just couldn't be bothered to plan it all.
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Thu May 21, 2009 8:02 pm UTC

New megaproject: Drain the whole stupid 3/4 submerged fortress.

OK, the originally planned way of pumping out the water from the channel connecting my moat to the brook nearly ended in catastrophe.

So we move on to next plan: Cast a huge obsidian block and smash it into the damn thing!

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Fri May 22, 2009 11:09 pm UTC

So... I'm currently starting a new game with one of the seeds from the wiki. I think my dwarves are going to starve... Maybe not... I have a fisher and a hunter dwarf (fisher from first migration). I just... well have no plants... at all.

I tried trading some with the caravan, but they were annoyed I was giving them a profit and refused to trade. Jerks... and it wasn't like I had a military yet to just seize it.

Actually, I'm not really sure how to make a military, honestly... but I'll get to that if I live through the winter.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Levi » Sat May 23, 2009 1:16 am UTC

Re: Building an Underwater Fortress
You could edit the config file for dwarves and make them amphibious. That's a rather boring way though, so I suggest using another method of building the fortress, then flooding it. Or you could play as mermaids or something.
EDIT: From the "Challenges" section of the wiki: "Mod: Make your dwarves amphibious and include airlocks between the wet fortress and the dry. "

I'm assuming you make multi-level building by building on top of walls, but I can't figure out how to do that. I'm considering digging out a large open multi-level space inside a mountain and then building a large tower inside.

I was ambushed by 20 goblins, and the killed one of my legendary dwarves. :(!!!! They're still not dead, mainly because my military consists of two recruits and a wrestler. And my war dogs suck. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, because after killing four wardogs, six dogs, numerous puppies, and a cougar, only one goblins was dead and another one had a wounded hand.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sat May 23, 2009 1:25 pm UTC

Levi wrote:Re: Building an Underwater Fortress
You could edit the config file for dwarves and make them amphibious. That's a rather boring way though, so I suggest using another method of building the fortress, then flooding it. Or you could play as mermaids or something.
EDIT: From the "Challenges" section of the wiki: "Mod: Make your dwarves amphibious and include airlocks between the wet fortress and the dry. "

I'm assuming you make multi-level building by building on top of walls, but I can't figure out how to do that. I'm considering digging out a large open multi-level space inside a mountain and then building a large tower inside.

I was ambushed by 20 goblins, and the killed one of my legendary dwarves. :(!!!! They're still not dead, mainly because my military consists of two recruits and a wrestler. And my war dogs suck. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, because after killing four wardogs, six dogs, numerous puppies, and a cougar, only one goblins was dead and another one had a wounded hand.


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I have repeatedly tried to do this:

  • You'll need a river/brook/stream, but NOT an aquifer.
  • Have your buildings planned out so that they are roughly square, unless you like migraine headaches. Same goes for being on a flat map instead of hilly or, Armok help you, a mountainous map.
  • Dig out underground fortress, with a "bottom level" that is at least one z-level above the actual bottom z-level (to allow for plumbing, basically).
  • Have a tower that goes from the surface level to the "entrance" of your fort, to allow access for caravans, immigrants, etc. Go all out on this - bridges, build a physical tower (a lighthouse, maybe) up from z-level 0, etc.
  • Dig out everything (except for your buildings and the river) from the surface down to, but not including, that "bottom level" I mentioned. If you do this right, your fortress, instead of being underground, will consist of a bunch of buildings, connected by sealed tunnels, that are sitting on a flat plain open to the sky, and that have been carved straight from the rock instead of built square by square. Also, I like to plan to leave the edge two tiles wide around most of the map, so the caravans can only come at me from one direction.
  • If you're really feeling swanky, replace some (i.e, a lot) of the outer walls with clear glass windows.
  • Punch a hole in the side of the river, and let in drain into and fill the giant hole you just made.
  • You now have an underwater city connected to the surface only by the tower, with separate buildings connected by tunnels. Welcome to Dwarven Rapture.
  • For bonus points, include airlocks at either end of the tunnels that connect your buildings.
  • For further bonus points, do it with an ocean-side map instead of a river.
  • For yet more bonus points, find a way to hack the game so underground pools appear all over instead of just in mountains, and have your fort in an area with one. Then, during planning of your fort, include a large, blank room. When you have dug everything out, irrigate this room. You have replicated Arcadia - in other words, you have a tree farm. Alternatively, collapse part of the surface all the way down into your fort, so you have soil 13 or 14 z-levels down, but this requires you to leave it open to the sky while not flooding your fort, which means you need to leave walls going all the way to z-level 0.

I have never managed to get this to work, mostly because of the sheer amount of planning that has to go into the entire fort's design, followed by digging out what amounts to almost the entire map, which even on the 4x4 maps that I like, is one hell of a proposal. I usually either mess up the planning or mess up the digging, both in catastrophic ways that there is no way to easily recover from while preserving the point of the fort.

What I have managed to do, however, is dig out a self-contained tower with a moat that goes from the surface to the bottom level, and flood the moat. Kind of the same idea, but on a much, much smaller scale. Also a lot more boring.

tl;dr: Turn off your computer and go read a book.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat May 23, 2009 1:45 pm UTC

w00t, my system works :D Now there's a waterfall all the way down my central shaft, powered by waterwheels that turn because of the flow of the pumps they themselves power. :D I could've created flow myself by letting it into the chasm, but the pumps worked much better than I had anticipated.
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Phen
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun May 24, 2009 7:04 pm UTC

I just discovered that drowning my best 7 champions apparantly produces tantrums because at least 2 of them were married. That's funny, since I almost never get tantrums, much less tantrum spirals.

In other news, the test of my drowning chamber was a success!
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

Xaddak
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sun May 24, 2009 7:14 pm UTC

...why would you test it on champions, let alone your seven BEST champions? I mean, the only dwarf-logic I can get out of that is "if it can kill these guys, it can kill anything!" - but even that seems kind of flimsy.
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Phen
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun May 24, 2009 7:27 pm UTC

Because it's the guys I can get to walk into it with the least effort. And because I savescummed back afterwards. :P
I'm playing with the idea of trying to train swimming skill with it.

Also, woo, I finally found adamantine for the first time!
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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headprogrammingczar
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun May 24, 2009 10:22 pm UTC

Dig a few levels down from the vein for an exciting surprise (save first).
<quintopia> You're not crazy. you're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Weeks> You're the goddamn headprogrammingspock!
<Cheese> I love you

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Phen
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sun May 24, 2009 11:13 pm UTC

I read about HFS long ago. Seems I underestimated how long I'd have to wall it up again, though... I'm not sure I'm able to!

Spoiler:
EDIT. WOAH. I decided to just try and see how my military would handle it and expect them to get slaughtered, especially because of the things I've heard about spirits of fire. One of my warriors arrive (One of two with titles) and charge down the narrow hall, apparantly dodging the fireball chucked at him and killing the SoF before the smoke can settle. Maybe they actually have a chance, I can't believe how fast that kill went.


Haha, okay, I lost a couple of dorfs, but seemed to get them subdued. It was mostly just an experiment, though. After babysitting the miners I managed to get them to wall up the section.

On an unrelated note, I got a batch of traders at my old trade depot that appears to be stuck. They don't want to leave. Their horses are breeding like crazy and I can't slaughter them o.o
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

annals
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:24 pm UTC

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Mon May 25, 2009 12:26 am UTC

Try tearing down the depot; that can get traders to leave sometimes. If that doesn't work, build a roof over them and collapse it.

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Thadlerian
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Location: Norway

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Tue May 26, 2009 6:22 pm UTC

annals wrote:Try tearing down the depot; that can get traders to leave sometimes. If that doesn't work, build a roof over them and collapse it.

I vote for the second option. Even better if you have the depot several levels underground, with at least one level of massive rock/soil above. Channel the roof out and drop it on them, to utterly obliterate every trace of their existence.

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Phen
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Tue May 26, 2009 8:11 pm UTC

I already did remove the depot, I suspect it might be part of the reason they won't leave. It's okay for now, though, since I just treat them as my first wall of defence, but maybe I should see if I still get caravans...
Oh, and it's at ground level, at the base of my small castle. Havn't been invaded yet, but I knew there were GCSs around, so I dug strait down from the get go. Unfortunately it got itself killed offscreen, got no idea how though...
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.


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