You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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TaintedDeity
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:49 pm UTC

Upsilon wrote:About the new HFS:
Spoiler:
Will we be seeing things like bronze colossi with three heads that fly and breathe fire or am I interpreting "random" incorrectly?
Spoiler:
I think it means that a random bunch of limbs will be thrown together with a random bunch of abilities.
So yeah, three heads, flying and firebreathing it is :D
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:54 pm UTC

I wonder if monsters having multiple heads will finally mean we get more than one skull for said monster.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Ralith The Third » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:17 pm UTC

Nope. Only one head for you.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:22 pm UTC

Boooo. But yeah, finally we wont be able to just hole up underground. This pleases me mightily.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:04 pm UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:
Rakysh wrote:Boooo. But yeah, finally we wont be able to just hole up underground. This pleases me mightily.


Well, you still can, you just have to be careful where you dig. Honestly, the first thing I would do when I discover a cave complex like that would be to flood it to sanitize it. With magma. Hell, it'd be easy, since I could just rely on gravity to do it, especially if metal mechanisms are in for the next version (Is that true? I heard it somewhere).


Yeah, whenever I discover any kind of underground environment, my immediate response is no less than re-sealing it until I have a sufficient number of defenses in place to counter a likely threat, and I usually move my military bunker/training area to cover more dangerous zones (underground rivers, chasms, etc). Luckily I haven't encountered those demonic magma pits yet, though.

Ralith The Third wrote:Nope. Only one head for you.


Eh, I am just bugged about things like Hydras, with seven heads and one skull.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:44 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Eh, I am just bugged about things like Hydras, with seven heads and one skull.


My explanation is that there's one "main" head, with a real skull, where it keeps its brain, and the other heads are just appendages with eyes and mouths and stuff, and the "skull" in each of them is cartilage.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:08 pm UTC

Then godamnit, I want cartilage skull totems! :P

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:00 am UTC

Random832 wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:Eh, I am just bugged about things like Hydras, with seven heads and one skull.

My explanation is that there's one "main" head, with a real skull, where it keeps its brain, and the other heads are just appendages with eyes and mouths and stuff, and the "skull" in each of them is cartilage.

I believe this situation might be changed for the next version, as the creature raws will be completely updated with all kinds of cool new stuff added in. Speaking of which, I'm really excited for this next one. Burrows, genetics, hospitals, less-broken-sparring/squads... it really sounds awesome.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:09 pm UTC

Was there only one tablet at the end of the HFS adventure?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:11 pm UTC

annals wrote:
Random832 wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:Eh, I am just bugged about things like Hydras, with seven heads and one skull.

My explanation is that there's one "main" head, with a real skull, where it keeps its brain, and the other heads are just appendages with eyes and mouths and stuff, and the "skull" in each of them is cartilage.

I believe this situation might be changed for the next version, as the creature raws will be completely updated with all kinds of cool new stuff added in. Speaking of which, I'm really excited for this next one. Burrows, genetics, hospitals, less-broken-sparring/squads... it really sounds awesome.

Genetics?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:19 pm UTC

Probably something to do with dwarves children not having randomly generated likes/dislikes, skills or whatever, they'll have something to do with the parents instead.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:27 pm UTC

If hair/eye color is thrown in, probably also a mix of those as well. I wonder if Parental Education will be added in - that is, the kid of a Legendary Miner and a Legendary Weaponsmith will grow up with the Miner and Weaponsmith skills, completely bypassing the Dabbling and Novice stages... wouldn't be too broken to do it that way, I don't think.. just have the kid gain (name) skill in the parents two highest skills....
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:32 pm UTC

It sounds like it's just physical features for now. Here's the quote from the recent developments page.
Spoiler:
01/12/2009: 852. Finished up the inheritance I was working on yesterday. Right now it'll do dominant-recessive stuff with the color variables, and it can also do that with the appearance variables or do averaging. It's pretty simple at this point, but what's there now could be used to, say, breed your dogs toward certain colors and body dimensions, as well as whatever facial features there end up being (though the colors and patterns would be limited to whatever is in the raws). Of course, the process might involve a lot of culls as there aren't a lot of controls on which animals breed.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:54 pm UTC

Sweet! Now I can have War Golden Retrievers!
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Upsilon » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:42 am UTC

Spoiler:
Instead of culling, couldn't you just build a small room with a cage and a door and lock them in there until they make babies?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:52 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:
Spoiler:
Instead of culling, couldn't you just build a small room with a cage and a door and lock them in there until they make babies?


Yes, though I believe that there still is the issue with pathing, which is the main reason for culling things like Kittehs due to FPS issues.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:11 am UTC

If they can't move, I hope it doesn't waste any time pathing for them.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby nyeguy » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:43 am UTC

So yesterday I decided to build an entirely above ground tower fortress out of stone. I must say, it takes significantly longer to get started. It is early autumn and I just now finished my barracks and dining halls, and am moving on to workshop floors.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:34 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:If they can't move, I hope it doesn't waste any time pathing for them.

I am under the impression (and this may have been changed by Toady since whatever I read was written) that animals in 1x1 rooms (not cages) "pathed" to destinations, but basically got a "cancel move" order. As I understand it, this would still have an effect on FPS.

A similar thing happens to sieges that cannot get into your base. They sit in one spot and path to the nearest door/dwarf/whatever, but don't move due to lack of an actual path.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby psion » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:48 pm UTC

The desire to path every few seconds probably takes up more resources than the pathing failure in a 1x1 room.
Meteorswarm wrote:Couldn't you just build a bunch of 1x1 rooms with multiple floor hatches beneath (to lock the dogs out safely) and open to the air above?

That just gave me an odd idea. Lock a bunch of cave adapted dwarves in a room with grates as a floor and hatches as a ceiling. Catch my drift? I'm not really sure it'd pass through the grates though.
edit: The room could just have a floodgate for a door, then you'd have the switch inside the room...

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby aliosha » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:31 pm UTC

Inspired by http://xkcd.com/505/, I wish to challenge you all.

Generate a world. Choose a desert location (I suggest one with an underground river). Then, embark with 1 steel axe, 1 steel pick, and 7 unskilled dwarves, and, hrm, 2 plump helmets and 2 cats.

Kill of 6 of the dwarves, and hole the remaining hermit up underground.

Train him up to legendary in mechanics, then build a 16bit adder, using your choice of cats, water, or mechanics (or some combination therof).

Actually, should I make a new thread and upload a save file, then make some sort of official scoring system?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:45 pm UTC

psion wrote:The desire to path every few seconds probably takes up more resources than the pathing failure in a 1x1 room.

...there would still be a desire to path in the 1x1 room, hence the repeated pathing failures. However, like I said, it is possible that this has been fixed for said rooms. I do not know.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby psion » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:01 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:
psion wrote:The desire to path every few seconds probably takes up more resources than the pathing failure in a 1x1 room.

...there would still be a desire to path in the 1x1 room, hence the repeated pathing failures. However, like I said, it is possible that this has been fixed for said rooms. I do not know.

I fail to see where I said there wasn't. I was just saying A* wouldn't take much resources to realize a failure.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:54 pm UTC

psion wrote:I fail to see where I said there wasn't. I was just saying A* wouldn't take much resources to realize a failure.


The problem is that this statement is self-evidently false as shown by the fact that placing things in 1x1 rooms does not alleviate the problem now. It quickly realizes a failure, then immediately tries again an unlimited number of times

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:28 pm UTC

Yeah, although the AI in DF is a little bit "stupid." Oh, well. One more thing that will eventually be fixed.

I want to start another topic here, though: Things you would like to see.

I would like to see the ability to actually use your goblin, kobold, and other prisoners. Enslave those murderous, thieving cretins that dare attack your fortress, and put them to work hauling, farming, and other menial tasks.

Another thing that would be fun would be, in certain evil biomes (especially terrifying), anything alive that dies (at least animals, though enemies or even dwarves could be interesting) comes back as undead. This would provide an incentive to butcher carcasses or otherwise dispose of them quickly, before that pack of beak hounds wakes up as zombies. However, once an undead is rekilled, they should stay dead.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:34 pm UTC

psion wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:
psion wrote:The desire to path every few seconds probably takes up more resources than the pathing failure in a 1x1 room.

...there would still be a desire to path in the 1x1 room, hence the repeated pathing failures. However, like I said, it is possible that this has been fixed for said rooms. I do not know.

I fail to see where I said there wasn't. I was just saying A* wouldn't take much resources to realize a failure.
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True, though that does go against Toady's design plan, right or wrong, which basically runs along the lines of "Cool stuff first, optimization later"
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby aliosha » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:49 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:I would like to see the ability to actually use There's already a perfectly good use for your goblin, kobold, and other prisoners. Enslave those murderous, thieving cretins that dare attack your fortress, and put them to work hauling, farming, and other menial tasks. Drop them in front of your trainee marksdwarves for target practice on things which bite back.


fix'd :D

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby psion » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:32 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
psion wrote:I fail to see where I said there wasn't. I was just saying A* wouldn't take much resources to realize a failure.


The problem is that this statement is self-evidently false as shown by the fact that placing things in 1x1 rooms does not alleviate the problem now. It quickly realizes a failure, then immediately tries again an unlimited number of times

...Which would be exactly what I said originally.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:57 am UTC

aliosha wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:I would like to see the ability to actually use There's already a perfectly good use for your goblin, kobold, and other prisoners. Enslave those murderous, thieving cretins that dare attack your fortress, and put them to work hauling, farming, and other menial tasks. Drop them in front of your trainee marksdwarves for target practice on things which bite back.


fix'd :D


True, but I want more suffering out of them*. You can only kill them once, and this would add another layer to the game (to say nothing about building an entire society to rely on slave labor from POW's. It would be EPIC, not to mention the possible fun from escape attempts or even the possibility of revolt if you are not careful).

I'm just throwing ideas out there. I also mentioned the possibility of evil (at least terrifying) biomes making any dead creature (even humanoids!) into undead if the carcass is not butchered or destroyed after a certain amount of time. That would be fun, too.

Any other ideas of things you would want to see?

*Yes, I suppose that makes me a monster. But it's fun!
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby aliosha » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:08 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:...the possibility of evil (at least terrifying) biomes making any dead creature (even humanoids!) into undead if the carcass is not butchered or destroyed after a certain amount of time. That would be fun, too.


That would be very fun indeed. It would make skeletal giant eagles look rather tame, especially when my champion wrestler/axedwarf comes back.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:26 am UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Any other ideas of things you would want to see?

I would like to have animal equipment, such as dog collars (that menace with spikes, of course), saddles, bridles, and armor for war dogs/mounts. Also, pushcarts or small wagons that could be used to haul several things at once, making the draft animals more useful. Of course, knowing the typical DF player, this will end in legendary axedwarves mounted on adamantine-clad Giant Cave Spiders patrolling the fortress gates, which are kept open to allow in the endless stream of rhinoceros carts hauling ore from nearby veins.

Also, boats. We need dwarven boats.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:44 am UTC

annals wrote:
SummerGlauFan wrote:Any other ideas of things you would want to see?

I would like to have animal equipment, such as dog collars (that menace with spikes, of course), saddles, bridles, and armor for war dogs/mounts. Also, pushcarts or small wagons that could be used to haul several things at once, making the draft animals more useful. Of course, knowing the typical DF player, this will end in legendary axedwarves mounted on adamantine-clad Giant Cave Spiders patrolling the fortress gates, which are kept open to allow in the endless stream of rhinoceros carts hauling ore from nearby veins.

Also, boats. We need dwarven boats.



I think I geekgasmed a little there. I want my endless train of draft rhinos! Although, are Giant Cave Spiders even tameable without modding?

Of course, that will be even MORE fun when goblins arrive riding their armored war elephants, or even better, armored trolls wielding ballista like crossbows.

Although, i can't really think of all that many uses for boats at the moment (though admittedly I am pretty new to the game), at least until Toady implements the rumored ability to make war abroad. Then it would be freaking sweet to have a navy. On second thought, traders coming by boat would be a huge boon to oceanic forts, especially islands until they can build walkways to shore.

@ aliosha: I don't know if undead would keep their skills after resurrection. It certainly would be a huge incentive to clean up a battlefield in evil biomes, though maybe actual tombs might be a reasonable way to contain undead dwarves.

Alternatively, a noble necromancer would be kinda cool, trying to resurrect your dead dwarves into useful undead (even all the way back to life!), at least outside of evil biomes. You'd have to work on the system a bit to make the necromancer work well, though.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Rakysh » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:35 am UTC

How wuld you implement clearing the battlefield of say Goblins? You can't butcher them, can you?

(Can you?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:48 pm UTC

Rakysh wrote:How wuld you implement clearing the battlefield of say Goblins? You can't butcher them, can you?

(Can you?

The obvious solution is to pull a Boatmurdered (Then again, that's the obvious solution to pretty much everything in DF).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:15 pm UTC

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of introducing cremation, or burial for enemies as well.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby aliosha » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:35 pm UTC

SummerGlauFan wrote:Well, I was thinking more along the lines of introducing cremation, or burial for enemies as well.


Epic LOTR style goblin bonfires with occasional piked heads, and a lone ranger poking a single blade of grass before exclaiming, "The next siege will be in 8 days, 12 hours and 15 seconds precisely, because the goblins are 100 miles to the south-southeast!" with uncanny accuracy. [/pet peeve]

Yeah, enemy roasts sound goood. Even if there's no real reason to remove the bodies, enemy bonfires would be epic coolness.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:46 pm UTC

Set your garbage hole over a pit with magma in it.

Fortress Status -> Stocks -> Corpses -> Dump.

Cremation already exists.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Upsilon » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

I'd like necromancy. You could raise former seige enemies into a skeleton army that would never eat or sleep. Or bleed. They could make dwarves panicky or something to offset that.

Maybe you'd have to sacrifice something to raise the dead? That would provide a use for POWs.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:22 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:I'd like necromancy. You could raise former seige enemies into a skeleton army that would never eat or sleep. Or bleed. They could make dwarves panicky or something to offset that.

Maybe you'd have to sacrifice something to raise the dead? That would provide a use for POWs the inevitable Metric FucktonTM of pets that plague your hallways.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SummerGlauFan » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:27 am UTC

Upsilon wrote:I'd like necromancy. You could raise former seige enemies into a skeleton army that would never eat or sleep. Or bleed. They could make dwarves panicky or something to offset that.

Maybe you'd have to sacrifice something to raise the dead? That would provide a use for POWs.



Yeah, I was thinking about something like a "necromancer workshop," you'd have to haul the corpse in, it would take time, maybe even have different levels of quality: poor quality still rots and degrades over time, while a Masterwork Undead would be able to heal and even eventually regenerate into living (and loyal) beings, etc.

Xaddak, great reminder. I forgot all about dumping into magma. Chasms are great choices too, and even if you lack those things, you could still dig a pit and chuck corpses into it. Undead can't (yet) climb.
glasnt wrote:"As she raised her rifle against the creature, her hair fluttered beneath the red florescent lighting of the locked down building.

I knew from that moment that she was something special"


Outbreak, a tale of love and zombies.

In stores now.


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