Tesseract Game?

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Phen
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Phen » Sun May 04, 2008 11:26 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:It helped me out quite a bit. And.. you can't imagine it. That's sorta the point of it being in a fourth spatial dimension - we have no frame of reference for it and cannot imagine it.

Yeah, that's what I had to realize... So, now my quest would be to understand the tesseract's shadow!
Hyperion, I'll look at your post tomorrow when I'm more awake, but I'm looking forward to it. I've seen a small GIF of folding up the tesseract, next to the folding up of squares into a cube... But as I said, I'll look tomorrow. Right now, it's linkage isomerism for me...
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby AKAnotu » Mon May 05, 2008 2:18 am UTC

Phen wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:It helped me out quite a bit. And.. you can't imagine it. That's sorta the point of it being in a fourth spatial dimension - we have no frame of reference for it and cannot imagine it.

Yeah, that's what I had to realize... So, now my quest would be to understand the tesseract's shadow!
Hyperion, I'll look at your post tomorrow when I'm more awake, but I'm looking forward to it. I've seen a small GIF of folding up the tesseract, next to the folding up of squares into a cube... But as I said, I'll look tomorrow. Right now, it's linkage isomerism for me...

does the tesseract cast a shadow? interesting question
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Micron » Mon May 05, 2008 3:34 am UTC

AKAnotu wrote:does the tesseract cast a shadow? interesting question

...umm I think you just totally missed the point. A tesseract is a 4 dimensional objects, it casts a 3 dimensional "shadow" we can think about interacting with but which is hard to visualize because it is only a projection of an object we do not have any idea how to picture the extra dimension. We can describe all the properties of this 3 dimensional shadow but even that really doesn't fully explain the real object.

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Phen
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Phen » Mon May 05, 2008 11:57 am UTC

The tesseract's shadow is the cube within a cube-thingy, as I understand it. In 3d, yes.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Tue May 06, 2008 2:08 am UTC

Not to overdive you, but how hard would it be to make a simplex, or that 11-cell, or any other shape?
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Tue May 06, 2008 6:01 am UTC

"Welcome to tesseract labs. We work in physics and mathematics. The special at Cube 4s cafeteria is pasta salad. Breakfast lunch and dinner is served at 6:00, 11:00, and 7:00 respectively. Enjoy your stay."

*Suddenly explosions, you're in a transport suit to keep you from going insane in the 4d bends of transportation, but all the scientists are not wearing suits, except for maybe a couple who you team up with later, who knows?*

*Oh, anyways, wild explosions, the world flips inside out and stuff. All the objects are shattering or suffering internal damage, the scientists are dying and going insane from the experience*



The rest of the game will deal with revamping the teleportation device while simultaneously fighting off insane scientists. You *might* get a gun if you decide that Tesseract labs is secretive enough for high-security. If you decide to include guns cue soldiers standing on the "ceiling" firing upon you as you run for cover in every place you can find. Totally awesome.

I'd love to play a game like this, just for the experience of 4d physics+regular shoot'em up.

So yeah, my two cents.

If you want to make it longer styled you could even include the 4d simplex, the 11-cell, and crap, what's the reverse of a tesseract, the 4d analog of a square?
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Yuri2356 » Tue May 06, 2008 12:38 pm UTC

Cryopyre wrote:If you want to make it longer styled you could even include the 4d simplex, the 11-cell, and crap, what's the reverse of a tesseract, the 4d analog of a square?

Er...
A square?

Just because the object has two dimentions doesn't mean it can't be an environent with four.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Tue May 06, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

What's the reverse of a tesseract I mean, there's some fancy word for it. You're right about the square thing though, my bad.
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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4=5
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby 4=5 » Wed May 07, 2008 4:51 am UTC

you mean a 4 dimensional icosahedron?

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby OmenPigeon » Wed May 07, 2008 8:30 am UTC

If you ever get to a point where you feel the game isn't quite confusing enough, you have pretty much the perfect environment to do mean, mean things using the OLE Coordinate system. A long explanation, demo and sandbox are here, but I'll try to sum up.

Basically, it's an attempt to make the environment behave differently based on where you're viewing it from and act like an Escher painting. So if you have an l-shaped walkway, say, with a hole in one end, and you're looking at it dead on with one arm of the walkway perpindicular to you, a person who falls through the hole would fall off the screen. But if you rotate so the whole thing is isometric and if you squint a little the hole is above the other arm of the L, falling through the hole lands you back on the walkway.

You can do similar stuff with walking between two objects that aren't in the same plane by rotating the camera until they match up and whatnot. Sticking something like that in one room of the tesseract would be pretty vicious.
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby ParanoidDrone » Wed May 07, 2008 3:39 pm UTC

All of a sudden I'm reminded of the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time. With those twisting hallways and the rooms that rotated along with them.
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Wed May 07, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

Cryopyre wrote:What's the reverse of a tesseract I mean, there's some fancy word for it. You're right about the square thing though, my bad.


A 4 dimensional octahedron.
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Torn Apart By Dingos
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Torn Apart By Dingos » Tue May 13, 2008 5:09 pm UTC

That looks fun enough as it is. Could you release a binary of just what we can see in the video? I'd like to try it.

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4=5
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby 4=5 » Tue May 13, 2008 5:11 pm UTC

instead of "the cake it s lie"
pi is 3

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Entropy
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Entropy » Tue May 27, 2008 9:10 pm UTC

AKAnotu wrote:
Phen wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:It helped me out quite a bit. And.. you can't imagine it. That's sorta the point of it being in a fourth spatial dimension - we have no frame of reference for it and cannot imagine it.

Yeah, that's what I had to realize... So, now my quest would be to understand the tesseract's shadow!
Hyperion, I'll look at your post tomorrow when I'm more awake, but I'm looking forward to it. I've seen a small GIF of folding up the tesseract, next to the folding up of squares into a cube... But as I said, I'll look tomorrow. Right now, it's linkage isomerism for me...

does the tesseract cast a shadow? interesting question


You may want to look at what I posted in the art forum.

Torn Apart By Dingos wrote:That looks fun enough as it is. Could you release a binary of just what we can see in the video? I'd like to try it.


The demo is very rough around the edges, has major performance issues, and does not work on all computers. However, if you want to give it a go you can download it from here. It requires DirectX 9. Use WASD to move, click and drag with the mouse to look around, and use number keys 0-5 to control the recursive rendering depth. The config.dat file will let you mess with the field of view and whether or not it runs full screen.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Torn Apart By Dingos » Tue May 27, 2008 10:07 pm UTC

Thanks! Didn't work on my computer though, I'll try it on another one tomorrow.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Dropzone » Tue May 27, 2008 11:46 pm UTC

Torn Apart By Dingos: the included config.dat tells the game to run at 1600x1200 fullscreen, which most computers won't support. Have you tried editing that file and setting it to a more sane resolution? Doing that got it to work on my machine, at least.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Wed May 28, 2008 2:17 am UTC

How do you edit the file?

Edit: Nevermind, what's a more sane resolution though?
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Entropy
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Entropy » Wed May 28, 2008 2:29 am UTC

Sorry, forgot that my res was a bit high :)

1024x768 should be universally supported, I think.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Wed May 28, 2008 2:33 am UTC

I just tried that but realized I might be missing dirextx 9.

I just don't know where to put the directx 9.0 extracted files, do you have any idea, anywhere?

Edit: It's working, it's definitely got potential. The problem is my computer, though pretty good, it crashed it quickly after starting, and when it wasn't crashed, it was moving incredibly slowly.


SO what are you working on with it now?
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Entropy
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Entropy » Wed May 28, 2008 8:01 am UTC

Cryopyre wrote:I just tried that but realized I might be missing dirextx 9.
Edit: It's working, it's definitely got potential. The problem is my computer, though pretty good, it crashed it quickly after starting, and when it wasn't crashed, it was moving incredibly slowly.


Try holding '1' as soon as it starts. You won't be able to see as far, but it should run a lot more smoothly (recursive depth defaults to 3). '0' will work as well, though then you will only see the room you are in.

In terms of performance, here is why a depth of three is so costly...

Code: Select all

int num_rooms(int depth)
{
    int result = 1;
    if(depth > 0)
    {
        result += num_rooms(depth - 1);
        result += pow(6, depth);
    }
    return result;
}


This evaluates to 1 + 6 + 62 + 63 = 259 rooms rendered, versus only 7 at level one. There is also an overhead of 62 render to texture operations, as every other recursive step it becomes possible for multiple different rooms to occupy the same 'unfolded' 3D space, and which room you see must depend on which walls you are looking through. At the maximum depth I support (a depth of five), there can be as many as 9,331 rooms, and 1332 render to texture operations!

There are some optimizations in place: Detailed wall geometry reduces to flat textured planes at depths greater than one room away, walls which face away from the camera are not recursed, and view frustum culling is applied to further reduce recursion when walls can not be seen. Still, it just isn't enough to pull off a steady frame rate when you can see really far in every direction you look.

Cryopyre wrote:SO what are you working on with it now?


We are preparing to break into two 15-person teams at school to build Half Life 2 mods (these will be twenty week projects). Each student was given the opportunity to give a 5 minute game idea pitch last week. I pitched the tesseract. Thanks to the demo it made the top ten, and gets to be further fleshed out and re-pitched for a longer time this Friday. Unfortunately, I don't get to be the one to pitch it.

For some reason, the prof thinks our ideas will be vastly improved if the original authors are shut out of the loop and a group of three other random students get to apply their own spin. In addition, the prof combined my idea with someone else's, which was basically 'you can flip gravity any direction whenever you feel like it'. This would destroy any hope for building interesting puzzles within the tesseract. Since it is such a challenging environment to wrap one's head around, I fully expect the group that is pitching the concept to focus on the gravity mechanic and completely nerf the 4D idea. I really hope that this doesn't happen, but if it does then the tesseract project may have to be put on the back burner for a long while.

In the mean time, I get to work on a pitch for a game where you poke an imp to try to help it escape from a dungeon. Le sigh.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Wed May 28, 2008 8:54 am UTC

Yeah, I saw the depth level thing in one of the two config files. I'll change that. I think my computer has gone to crap though because it crashes during WoW too.


Well I hope your tesseract idea can work on its own. The gravity manipulation would just suck if it went with the tesseract for the exact reason you mentioned. 3D gravity in 4D wraparound-space is what makes the game, that and being able to shoot yourself (but you can only do that once!)


I'll try to speed up the game now.
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Entropy
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Entropy » Thu May 29, 2008 12:47 am UTC

Cryopyre wrote:Yeah, I saw the depth level thing in one of the two config files. I'll change that. I think my computer has gone to crap though because it crashes during WoW too.


The depth isn't in the config files... you have to control it at runtime with the number keys. Though looking now, there is a lot of vestigial stuff in config.dat that isn't being used. Might have to clean that out at some point :?

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Thu May 29, 2008 1:15 am UTC

Yeah, I realized that, but it still works :P

I think I saw depth in the portal options and that tied in... somehow... with my memory. But regardless.

Yeah, it looks good, I'm screwing around with the textures a bit, made the chairs brownish and leathery to start.
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

Gunfingers wrote:Voting is the power to speak your mind. You, apparently, had nothing to say.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Nyarlathotep » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:00 am UTC

Any updates on this thing?
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hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Awia » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:53 am UTC

The last thing the guy posted was on the 27th of august, I don't think s/he is going to update, though his/her AIM name is in his/her profile, someone contact her/him and see what's going on.
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Entropy
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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Entropy » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:49 am UTC

Sorry, working on masters degree and such, have not had time for personal projects. This idea has been on the back burner for a few years now... be patient, something will come of it eventually.

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Re: Tesseract Game?

Postby Awia » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:19 pm UTC

Awesome, I'll look forward to it.
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