Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

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Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Irrefutable » Sun May 04, 2008 1:18 pm UTC

Bioshock is easily one of my favorite games ever, however i feel it was severely hampered by lack of variety.

For example with the plasmids. In the lead of to bioshock everyone got very excited at the prospect of customising your character with different skills and tonics. However there are only 10 plasmids in game and towards the end game you have 6 plasmid slots. When you take into account that Security Bullseye and Enrage are pretty awful, Incinerate isnt useful when you get flaming munitions and hypnotise Big Daddy is only useful in certain contexts the actual variety is very limited. The same can be said for the 3 sets of tonics.

So what i want to know is, what would you like to see in Bioshock 2 in terms of new plasmids and tonics? Heres some ideas to start you off.

Dominate : Take control of annother person for a limited time, spread disent and confusion among your enemies, remove security systems with no risk etc

Earthquake : Cause a small, localised quake to knock down and damage multiple enemies

Blind : Induce temporary blindness in enemies

Time Distortion : Temporarily highten your own senses giving the impression of slowed time

Sonic Blast : Propel enemies backwards, hopefully into walls or other enemies.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sun May 04, 2008 1:37 pm UTC

rather than more plasmids, first I'd like to see better use of the ones in there. Sure you can shock the water enemies are in to shock them, but why not let us use the freeze plasmid to freeze the water and immobilize the enemies too?

...hmm...that just made me think, Nethack crossed with Bioshock would be a very interesting thing...

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Irrefutable » Sun May 04, 2008 2:59 pm UTC

Aye, i would have liked to see some Dark Messiahish ground freezing to slip up enemies but there you go

However atm almost all the plasmids are 1 or 2 trick ponys and there arnt very many origonal uses for them, everyone loves setting people on fire and watching em jump in water only to shock them when they do but this is one of very few groovy uses for the plasmids.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Xaddak » Sun May 04, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

Even plasmids get fairly useless toward the endgame if you ask me. A line of trap bolts will kill anything up to and including the toughest Big Daddys in the game. Tougher Big Daddy? Add another three or four trap bolts. I have to wonder, with munitions power like that available, why would people want plasmids? The weapons are more accurate, have more ammunition vs. shots available per EVE vial, and oh yeah, you don't need to REWRITE YOUR GENETIC CODE.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby SlyReaper » Sun May 04, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Even plasmids get fairly useless toward the endgame if you ask me. A line of trap bolts will kill anything up to and including the toughest Big Daddys in the game. Tougher Big Daddy? Add another three or four trap bolts. I have to wonder, with munitions power like that available, why would people want plasmids? The weapons are more accurate, have more ammunition vs. shots available per EVE vial, and oh yeah, you don't need to REWRITE YOUR GENETIC CODE.


/irish voice "Yeah, but there's nothing like a fistful of lightning, is there?"

Personally, I found Eve hypos to be so plentiful throughout the game that there was very little reason NOT to use the ignite plasmid on them.

Damn sploicers...
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Babam » Sun May 04, 2008 11:24 pm UTC

I'd like to see the springboard trap actually make it into the game this time.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Mister_Penguin » Mon May 05, 2008 2:36 am UTC

Irrefutable wrote:. However there are only 10 plasmids in game and towards the end game you have 6 plasmid slots. When you take into account that Security Bullseye and Enrage are pretty awful,

Lies and slander! Enrage is pretty good if you have a crowd of splicers on you; enrage two or three of them, and they usually pound on each other for a pretty good length of time, and you can pick off the survivors with a couple quick pistol rounds. I think it depends on your style.
I agree though, I would like to see a wider variety of plasmids, especially if there were more ways to screw with splicers, it just fits my style.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby red artifice » Mon May 05, 2008 4:08 am UTC

Security Bullseye is excellent for Big Daddys, bullseye them as they walk in front of a camera and let the robots take care of them

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Toeofdoom » Mon May 05, 2008 5:45 am UTC

Dual wielded wrenches!

Actually, I cant think of any serious suggestions, mainly because the cool thing was meant to be using them together or with other factors. Maybe something to do with magnets...
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Irrefutable » Mon May 05, 2008 11:14 am UTC

red artifice wrote:Security Bullseye is excellent for Big Daddys, bullseye them as they walk in front of a camera and let the robots take care of them


True but its such a limited scope of use and there are many other much easier ways to kill big daddies esp near the end game.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Mo0man » Mon May 05, 2008 4:36 pm UTC

Irrefutable wrote:
red artifice wrote:Security Bullseye is excellent for Big Daddys, bullseye them as they walk in front of a camera and let the robots take care of them

True but its such a limited scope of use and there are many other much easier ways to kill big daddies esp near the end game.

Also, wouldn't it be easier to just run up and hack it? Then you'll have it permanently, and you won't waste any eve
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Jessica » Mon May 05, 2008 6:24 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:
Irrefutable wrote:
red artifice wrote:Security Bullseye is excellent for Big Daddys, bullseye them as they walk in front of a camera and let the robots take care of them

True but its such a limited scope of use and there are many other much easier ways to kill big daddies esp near the end game.

Also, wouldn't it be easier to just run up and hack it? Then you'll have it permanently, and you won't waste any eve

Yup. Especially since hacking really isn't "hard" in the game, and by the end, if you're really lazy you have enough autohacks to do it anyway.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Torwegia » Mon May 05, 2008 8:56 pm UTC

better level design

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Whispering » Tue May 06, 2008 5:43 am UTC

Hopefully the next one will be longer. Thankfully I rented it instead of buying it I finished the game in a day.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Felstaff » Tue May 06, 2008 9:59 am UTC

I had a problem with the graphics. Not that they weren't superb, but they seemed a bit too busy and quite strenuous on the eye, as there was rarely a section where graphical effects weren't used to their fullest over every inch. I had problems with areas where there were a lot of lights and reflective surfaces. It felt like the entire city was just one big reflection of lights. If they had drained the colour a little, making it look a little less gaudy and a little more 'in-the-past', and made a few environments here and there a little more sparse, or reduced the opulence and screen-junk, I'd have been dead happy.

Also, I've fallen deep into The Uncanny Valley, so characters' faces, bodies and movements seem jarring to me (this is especially bad in FarCrysis. I guess the makers thought this too, so the idea of masques covering the faces was pretty well executed.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Irrefutable » Tue May 06, 2008 4:02 pm UTC

Gharbad wrote:
Mo0man wrote:
Irrefutable wrote:
red artifice wrote:Security Bullseye is excellent for Big Daddys, bullseye them as they walk in front of a camera and let the robots take care of them

True but its such a limited scope of use and there are many other much easier ways to kill big daddies esp near the end game.

Also, wouldn't it be easier to just run up and hack it? Then you'll have it permanently, and you won't waste any eve

Yup. Especially since hacking really isn't "hard" in the game, and by the end, if you're really lazy you have enough autohacks to do it anyway.


Big Daddies arnt your enemies so security wont target the big dadies unless they are your enemy

Bullseye is used so you dont get killed by the daddy, its risk free
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:42 pm UTC

I don't know if anyone is playing the ARG called "Something in the Sea" but over at unfiction I have been solving puzzles related to Bioshock 2. I decoded a message written by one of the kidnapped little sisters.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby folkhero » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:19 pm UTC

The cameras in that game really bothered me. How are they able to tell the difference between friends and enemies so easily? Isn't this the 60's? That kinda ruined the otherwise awesome setting for me. I also thought the hacking system was pretty stupid. Enemies attacking you all of a sudden say, "hold on guys he's hacking right now, lay off until he's done." Who's making these machines that are so easily hacked and why don't they put a physical lock on the outside so that it's harder to get into the easy-to-hack guts. I'm not looking for perfect realism, but less of those wall-bangingly stupid technologies would be nice to see in the 2nd.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Zapheod » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:49 pm UTC

I would love to see an option to build your own Plasmids. Give an option for primary effects, secondary effects, range, damage etc..

So instead of being stuck with just fire you could do a field of fire on the grounds or an explosive grenade or maybe even just a flamethrower effect. Even defensive options like Fire skin or poison skin would be great.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Bukkarooo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:08 pm UTC

I would love to see... well, what they promised to give us in the first Bioshock. It was a solid game, but I was severely disappointed with it because they hyped it up so much, and then didn't make it as amazing as they said they would. That definitely didn't stop reviewers from "reviewing" what was hyped and not the actual released product...

To be more specific, I'd like to see the world be more open for one thing. The first game was fairly linear with fairly little exploration. And sure you could go back to earlier areas, but there was almost never any need or desire to. I'd also like more moral choices and more ending options. I hate how the first game had a black or white ending. There were no shades of grey at all. I played through the first half harvesting, and the second half saving, and I got the evil ending. I felt like there should have been an ending more tailored to how I acted.

It looks like they're adding more versatility with the plasmids, which is good. With the first, they gave you the option to light fires on puddles of oil and stuff like that. The only problem is, you could only be as creative as the level designers were. You could never shoot a barrel, have the oil spill out, then light it on fire. You could only light pools of oil where the creators felt like putting them. The most creative you could get was with use of the Cyclone Trap and the electric wire arrows. And, let's face it, that's not a lot to work with. Not to mention a majority of the plasmids were basically just guns with a hand and some special effects pasted on top...

It looks like they are fixing most of the problems I had with the first game, so I'm eager to see how number 2 turns out. I'm not getting my hopes up, though, so I don't get the same disappointment I had with the first one, which I even grew to "hate" to an extent because noone was reviewing the game how it actually was, all acting like it had the amazing features that were promised to come with it...

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:41 pm UTC

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby LTK » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:33 am UTC


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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Axman » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:32 pm UTC

Spiritual successor to System Shock my beautiful scrotum. How about some fucking classes? An inventory system? A difficulty scale that doesn't plateau after offing that first Big Daddy?

This game was all about playing style rather than playing decisions.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby TheVoiceOfMonotony » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 pm UTC

I really liked the Plasmids from BioShock, but I kind of though that most of them were a bit obvious really, particularly the lightning/freeze/flame powers, quite a few games already have weapons like that, although that isn't to say I didn't find them entertaining. The flame power in particular was great, setting someone on fire by clicking your fingers was an awesome touch.

I'd like to see more based on manipulating nature, like the swarm of wasps (I forget the name) from the first game. I had an idea of a plasmid that ties enemies to the ground with roots erupting from the floor leaving you free to manhandle them as you will. As the plasmid is upgraded further the enemy basically becomes encased inside a tree (maybe a bit much but it'd be ace).

In BioShock I've heard you play the first Big Daddy (a revelation which I have to say left me drooling ), this development opens a world of oppurtunity for the player, for instance I know that in the game the player should be able venture outside Rapture and explore the ocean floor. Personally,I'm hoping for underwater fights against sea creatures, sharks being the obvious. Also I think it would be rather awesome to have sea creatures around Rapture being affected by Adam, i.e ultravicious mutated sharks. For a boss battle it'd be great to fight a megalodon or a giant whale which has gone mad from Adam, agina this may be a bit much and the game devs would probably have to come up with something more intuitive than just shooting/plasmid-ing it into oblivion. Maybe even the chance to explore the plane that crashed in the first game, or at least sunken ships in Rapture's surrounding area.

As well as this, I think there should be a greater variety of choices for the player, maybe more of an open-world game than the standard linear proceedings. That isn't to say there is anything horribly wrong with linear gameplay (as long as it is executed innovatively and made challenging), but a greater sense of freedom from "do this, go here, fetch that" would be nice. Also the endings were a bit of a let down, the polarity between Good and Bad left no moral grey area and gave us only two endings; with the Good ending came an "and they all lived happily ever after" vibe and the Bad ending with the player being regarded as the ultimate in the bastard scale. Personally I thought that this moral polarity was incredibly anti-climactic and I hope that in BioShock 2 there will be more done to really make the player think about what to do in terms of morals, rather than the two catergories presented.

Also, do something about those cameras and turrets! I know that with an underwater city it is expected for there to be more advanced technology but steam turrets that can distinguish between friend and foe? I think that's quite a clear example of an over-zealous artistic licence.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby GiantSnowman » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:00 pm UTC

I don't think they'll do sharks in Bioshock since it's all about that the monsters used to be human. That said, I wouldn't mind some humans that can no longer be easily recognized as such instead of the mooks that just want to shoot or club you. The best thing about the first game that would need repeating was Dr. Tenenbaums voice acting. (guess I'm in luck) Her encouragement made saving the little sisters no choice at all. At the end of the game I basically was a big daddy, protecting the girls was my only objective. It seems like part two picks up where I left.

Although I had some fun with plasmids and setting up traps in the first game, I never felt I needed them even on hard mode. I have fond memories of judging the ammo efficiency of every shot in System Shock 2, which also provided a good incentive to go exploring. This wasn't as rewarding in Bioshock 1, where I could shoot myself out of every problem. I'd love to make some traps which were more then a stack of gasoline barrels or influence enemies in other ways then making them attack eachother. Some more complicated physics and plasmid effects would help, but some weird machines (of doom) in each area are needed to ward of repetetiveness. Rapture is a mad scientists playground after all.

I'm also guessing they're going to make the starting big daddy into a real boy again.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby LTK » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:51 pm UTC

Pah. Whatever is swimming around in that sea ain't got nothing on the first Big Daddy. Sharks would be pretty lame, mutated sharks moreso. (What shark eats sea slugs?) Octopi would be too much Tomb Raider. Anyway, the sea is supposed to be about serenity, about exploring outside of the city walls, and about the connection between Rapture and the ocean. No way you're gonna fight sharks with that in mind.

The traps give the impression of being more attractive to execute than in the previous game. Plasmids have multiple functions per level and can be combined with other plasmids or enviromental circumstances, while in the first game all there was to traps were electric tripwires, which I never really used, and oil slicks.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby aion7 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:22 pm UTC

Axman wrote:Spiritual successor to System Shock my beautiful scrotum. How about some fucking classes? An inventory system? A difficulty scale that doesn't plateau after offing that first Big Daddy?

This game was all about playing style rather than playing decisions.

This. Especially the third one.

Also, how about some decent story and atmosphere. I would like that. Maybe a storytelling method that isn't absolutely terrible. Audio logs: one of the worst ideas for video games.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:04 am UTC

The atmosphere wasn't bad. The audiologs.. yeah.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:32 pm UTC

aion7 wrote:Also, how about some decent story and atmosphere. I would like that. Maybe a storytelling method that isn't absolutely terrible. Audio logs: one of the worst ideas for video games.
Bah. They did exactly what they needed to do .... when they first used them in 1994.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby mosc » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:04 pm UTC

1) No more doom3 like jumping out of darkness 2 inches from your face
2) More freedom. Don't lock the perspective or give me things to interact with I can't shoot
3) remove the stupid snaphot camera system. It was annoying.
4) Don't be afraid of letting some light in for a change of pace now and then. Quit jerking off on gamma correction.
5) More ammo.
6) some incentive not to die. Ammo should not be more precious than life (see 5).

And of course, the main thing promised and not delivered from the first game: Choice!
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby jerdak » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:16 pm UTC

aion7 wrote:
Axman wrote:Spiritual successor to System Shock my beautiful scrotum. How about some fucking classes? An inventory system? A difficulty scale that doesn't plateau after offing that first Big Daddy?

This game was all about playing style rather than playing decisions.

This. Especially the third one.

Also, how about some decent story and atmosphere. I would like that. Maybe a storytelling method that isn't absolutely terrible. Audio logs: one of the worst ideas for video games.


I disagree. The atmosphere was pretty creepy and the audio logs make sense in the context of the narrative. I think there is something decidedly eerie about listening to an audio log while tramping through a quiet hallway. It would be a lot less creepy if I picked up some long lost sticky note and then began griping that there is no way a sticky note survived in all the water. I'm not saying there aren't other ways to build a back story but this one worked for System Shock and I believe it worked here.

As for Axman's comment, it might not have the gameplay you desire but there is not denying this game is System Shock 3: Undersea Odyssey.
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"3) remove the stupid snaphot camera system. It was annoying.
6) some incentive not to die. Ammo should not be more precious than life (see 5)."
Agreed! Why bother with strategy when you can simply run at things with a crowbar until you die, respawn, and repeat. And fuck that camera. At the very least give me the option of taking candid photographs. "nudge nudge wink wink." You know, for my Hotties of Rapture 2010 calendar.

But I think my biggest gripe is reserved for the lack of enemy variety. It was either guns with wings or residents. It makes sense in the environment but how about some other experiments (I believe they mention this for the second installment.) You know.. fire breathing cats or mutated gold fish. I was also a bit underwhelmed with enemy plasmid use. Why must most of them wield the sharp and pointys and not the same damage plasmids that I use?

So... more enemies, less camera, not immortal, level variety. A couple I've seen have been addressed.
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Sir-Taco » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:26 pm UTC

I played it and as for todays "stock halo gamer" it was probably mind blowing, but to those of us who played SS/SS2, it seemed really watered down. They should either beef it up to what it used to be or at least have better plasmid combat, actual deaths, and an inventory system. I would like to keep those creme cakes handy when I run out of medkits (despite there being a respawn booth a few steps away).
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby aion7 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:28 pm UTC

Sir-Taco wrote:it seemed really watered down.

THAT'S IT! It was all a pun. They watered it down just to make a hidden pun about how it's underwater. DAMN YOU KEN LEVINE!
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Pseudoku » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:49 am UTC

As great as the game was, I found myself plugging along more for the story than anything, so I just hope for more great characters and philosophical complexity. Plus I heard there'd be a greater level of interactivity with the NPCs in this one, so that's refreshing. The first game seemed terrified of showing you any non-splicers lest you might shoot them, as if they couldn't just take a cue from half life and ask you to lower your weapon for two seconds.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Mo0man » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:45 am UTC

Pseudoku wrote:As great as the game was, I found myself plugging along more for the story than anything, so I just hope for more great characters and philosophical complexity. Plus I heard there'd be a greater level of interactivity with the NPCs in this one, so that's refreshing. The first game seemed terrified of showing you any non-splicers lest you might shoot them, as if they couldn't just take a cue from half life and ask you to lower your weapon for two seconds.

They DID show you some non splicers, and asked you to lower your weapon in an awesome way.

Also, Little Sisters after you save them
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Pseudoku » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:30 pm UTC

oh, right, the Little Sisters.

Spoiler:
I was thinking more along the lines of the plastic surgeon, herbologist, and tenenbaum, all three of whom were hiding behind bulletproof glass. Sander Cohen made a great alternative with the choices you got, and the whole point of Andrew Ryan was you not being in control, but I couldn't shake the feeling that the game was doing all it could to make sure you wouldn't Time Paradox things, especially when chasing Atlas towards the end.


Thanks Mooman.
Last edited by Pseudoku on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:47 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Mo0man » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:59 pm UTC

Pseudoku wrote:oh, right, the Little Sisters.

I was thinking more along the lines of Tenenbaum and the doctor. I don't wanna spoil anything for people who haven't played it is all, but with one or two very notable exceptions there's a lot of talking to people behind glass walls or from too far away to make out very well.

Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure they didn't want to forcibly lower your weapons, to make the eventual twist all the more special
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Kaeyn » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:21 am UTC

Pseudoku wrote:As great as the game was, I found myself plugging along more for the story than anything, so I just hope for more great characters and philosophical complexity. Plus I heard there'd be a greater level of interactivity with the NPCs in this one, so that's refreshing. The first game seemed terrified of showing you any non-splicers lest you might shoot them, as if they couldn't just take a cue from half life and ask you to lower your weapon for two seconds.


Touche. The
Spoiler:
"Would You Kindly?"
scene was brilliant. I always like it when games have scenes like this. I'd really like to have a couple of these massive twist scenes in BioShock 2. Dunno what they'd be about, but they'd still be cool.

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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Chfan » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:44 pm UTC

But not so many story twists that it's turned into a...never mind, you know the joke.
Just FYI, the guy isn't avatar isn't me. But he seems pretty cool.

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Andioje
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Re: Bioshock 2: What would you like to see?

Postby Andioje » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:29 pm UTC

I though of this in a moment of epiphany while pondering Bioshock 2...

We all remember the awesome twist in the Hephaestus level where enemies start to pretend to be dead at first, then jump up when you get close to them right? And we fully expect to see this again at some point in Bioshock 2. However, those of us who played Bioshock will of course not be surprised, in fact until they start doing that we'll probably be checking every corpse we see. So obviously there should be some new form of trick that allows the enemies to mess with us, so as to surprise even the more hardened players. And then I realized:

Dead Ringer's. Enemies that you fight, and after a few hits they pretend to die, but then when you go to loot them they jump back up. This would bring a whole new level of paranoia to the game, not only are you checking corpses before you fight them, but even after you've killed an enemy you have to shoot it even more just to make sure its not just acting like its dead.

If not this, then I seriously hope they think of some other way of messing with us to put in. The creepy tricks that the splicers pulled on you (Pretending to be statues, disappearing once you turn around, etc.) were part of what made Bioshock so much fun. If they don't have some new tricks for the splicers I will be severely disappointed.
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