Diablo III

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Chen
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:32 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:I was under the impression that nothing above ilvl 60 dropped in Hell, so my mistake there. Still, I suppose the distinction I'm trying to make is: I agree they are not the same due to skill/difficulty, but my reasons for playing them are the same, character improvement. They just took out one aspect (xp).


ilvl 62 items can drop in Act 3 and 4 of hell and I think the rate is low though 2%ish or something. I agree the XP aspect did remove one aspect of improvement even if that improvement had very little gameplay effect. It was still something to aspire to even though the impacts of level were extremely minor (at least once you were reasonably high say 60+). Having some sort of bonus system where you could keep grinding XP to SOME end would definitely be a benefit. I suspect they'll add something like it in the future (likely during an expansion).

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Lostdreams » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:31 pm UTC

Negated wrote:
Lostdreams wrote:In D2, endgame had you farming the same areas but it was relaxed for most (if not all) of the time and the few times you died in D2 the price was practically nonexistant. .

Don't you lose like 1/4 of your gold and 20 hours worth of character experience? In D3 I pay like 3k gold per death, which isn't much.


It depends on what version of D2 you are comparing as to how much time was lost, the earlier the version, the greater the loss. LoD era was like 30 mins-1 hour at 90+ and as Obby said, gold was worthless (for anything but gambling) and as I said before, the deaths are far and fewer between.

Another thing that comes to mind as I'm typing is that the "unfun" way you farmed levels in D2 is exactly like the "unfun" way you farm items in D3: If your gear sucks then you don't get to farm the areas that make the exp quicker/item drops better, you get to farm the shitty lower areas repeatedly until you hit max level/get the gear. Then you get to farm in more than one spot and be less bored.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:58 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:Sure, since it's a single player game, drop rates are kinda ridiculous, but it's still more fun. Fun > Balance, especially when it comes to PvE.

I still enjoy the gameplay. I'll probably come back when an expansion or major update hits to see if it improves. But right now, I don't feel that I'm working towards anything. Even in D2, running end game, I was always at least making level progression. I was getting stronger even if I didn't have the lightning reflexes to grab the items. That was enough. I love games with absurdly high level caps for this reason.

So you want a carebare server. Maybe D3 should make them. Places where you can become a god with 15 minutes worth of effort and your gear is so unbelievably unnecessary that you can laugh at mobs rather than worrying about what mods they spawn with or the differences in capabilities of your foes. Inferno is post-game. It's new game+. It's "Congrats on finishing the game, here's some extra challenge". It's what you DO with your uber gear once you get it.

If you want to be a god, go play act 4 hell. You can spend 100k combined on your level 60 character of any type with nearly any build and be all but immortal and kill everything in a few hits. When you want to actually USE those uber pieces, go to inferno. They go for superfluous to necessary. Some of us actually like having some purpose to gear up our characters and a reason to grind more than e-penis enlargement. Using your language, CHALLENGE = FUN. GODHOOD = BORING. CHALLENGE > GODHOOD.

ProZac wrote:I was under the impression that nothing above ilvl 60 dropped in Hell, so my mistake there. Still, I suppose the distinction I'm trying to make is: I agree they are not the same due to skill/difficulty, but my reasons for playing them are the same, character improvement. They just took out one aspect (xp).

They haven't released too much detail but the drop rates are close to as follows:
Act 4 Hell (likely act 3 hell is the same): ilevel 60 = 20%, ilevel 61 = 10%, ilevel 62 = 5%. In my experience, drops go down to ilevel 54 (53 req) if not lower but are rare. The most common drop is ilevel 60 but most drops will be lower.
Act 1 inferno ilevel 61 = 20%, ilevel 62 = 10%, ilevel 63 = 5%. In my experience, drops go down to ilevel 55 (54 req) if not lower but are rare. The most common drop is ilevel 61 but most drops will be lower.
Act 2 inferno ilevel 61 = 10-20% (unknown), ilevel 62 = 20%, ilevel 63 = 10%. In my experience, drops go down to ilevel 56 (55 req) if not lower but are rare. The most common drop is ilevel 62 but most drops will be lower.
Act 3+4 inferno ilevel 61 = 10-20% (unknown), ilevel 62 = 10-20% (unknown), ilevel 63 = 20%. In my experience, drops go down to ilevel 57 (56 req) if not lower but are rare. The most common drop is ilevel 63 but most drops will be lower.

I believe 50-60% of drops in act 3+4 inferno will be 61, 62, or 63.

Also, all the above doesn't seem to apply to jewelry. The loot table seems more evenly distributed over about an 8 ilevel range. For example in act 1 inferno I very very rarely see ilevel 61 or higher amulets even though the most common ilevel of regular gear is ilevel 61.

In terms of ingame items, most people farm Act 1 inferno so there are lots of ilevel 61 armor items on the market.

EDIT: When the 1.0.3 patch was released, the 2.5% number was given for ilevel 63 drops in act 1 inferno. It was quickly doubled in a smaller patch a few days later.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Negated » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:45 pm UTC

Lostdreams wrote:Another thing that comes to mind as I'm typing is that the "unfun" way you farmed levels in D2 is exactly like the "unfun" way you farm items in D3: If your gear sucks then you don't get to farm the areas that make the exp quicker/item drops better, you get to farm the shitty lower areas repeatedly until you hit max level/get the gear. Then you get to farm in more than one spot and be less bored.

In D2 you have builds like Hammerdin, Summoner Necro, Trapsin and Fireball/Frozen Orb Sorc that require very cheap gears to clear Hell. There are cheap but powerful runewords like Spirit and Obedience that make NM and early Hell a joke. The resist penalty of Hell can be largely overcome with a fairly common Moser's Blessing shield with 2 P Diamonds.

It doesn't necessarily mean D3 is worse. In fact the "unfun" part of D2 is what I mentioned just now. You have to start every ladder with a sorceress or one of the easier builds. Building a Druid as your first character only ensures that you fall behind everyone else and take longer to get the gears for the more interesting builds. In D3 you can start with any class, and then hit the brick wall like everyone else.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:36 pm UTC

I think Mosc has the right idea. Inferno is New Game+. As was posted almost every piece of gear you could need drops in Hell difficulty. Where you NEED that gear is Inferno difficulty. Its actually probably reasonable to say that the New Game+ aspect really only even starts in Act 2. Act 1 is clearable in hell gear and it drops ALL the possible gear you could need.

As for rarity, people are spoiled by D2's rampant dupes that made things like high runes accessible. It wasn't that difficult to make an Enigma armor but that was solely due to the fact that certain high runes were massively duped. The best drop chance for a Jah rune is 0.000250% and Ber is 0.000292%, both of those numbers from either Izual, Nihlathak or Haphesto. Uniques and champions have drop %s in the order of 0.00003% and super uniques on the order of 0.0001%. I don't think people realize just how absurdly low these numbers are. At 2500 kills of those "bosses" you're still only at about a 50% chance of seeing a Jah rune. Assuming roughly 10 min to get to and kill each of those bosses (haven't played in ages that number may be off). That's almost 400 hours for a 50% chance of seeing Jah rune.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:17 pm UTC

Lets be fair though. Blizzard gave up on removing duped items and controlled the economy by restricting drops to absurd levels. It cut both ways. If there was no duping in D2, the drop rates probably would have been 100x higher, no joke.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby ProZac » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

mosc wrote:So you want a carebare server. Maybe D3 should make them. Places where you can become a god with 15 minutes worth of effort and your gear is so unbelievably unnecessary that you can laugh at mobs rather than worrying about what mods they spawn with or the differences in capabilities of your foes. Inferno is post-game. It's new game+. It's "Congrats on finishing the game, here's some extra challenge". It's what you DO with your uber gear once you get it.

If you want to be a god, go play act 4 hell. You can spend 100k combined on your level 60 character of any type with nearly any build and be all but immortal and kill everything in a few hits. When you want to actually USE those uber pieces, go to inferno. They go for superfluous to necessary. Some of us actually like having some purpose to gear up our characters and a reason to grind more than e-penis enlargement. Using your language, CHALLENGE = FUN. GODHOOD = BORING. CHALLENGE > GODHOOD.
Take your condescending attitude elsewhere. I'm in Act 4 of Inferno, I know what gear is required, and if I didn't enjoy a challenge, I wouldn't be that far. I'm the one in my group of friends that gets annoyed when they say "This pack is too difficult, let's skip it." But you know what isn't fun? Farming for an hour and not finding anything useful. If I don't find something worth selling on the AH, I've made 0 progress towards anything, and that's not cool.

What makes Inferno post game? Why isn't Nightmare post game? At that point I've completed the game, I'm just doing it again. And no, Inferno is not what you "do with" your uber gear. It's what you do to get your uber gear.

Also, your drop rates are off: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/
I believe they've been slightly increased since that post (I can't find the update), but ilvl 63 is certainly not the most common.
Chen wrote:I think Mosc has the right idea. Inferno is New Game+. As was posted almost every piece of gear you could need drops in Hell difficulty. Where you NEED that gear is Inferno difficulty. Its actually probably reasonable to say that the New Game+ aspect really only even starts in Act 2. Act 1 is clearable in hell gear and it drops ALL the possible gear you could need.
Act 2 is clearable in fairly cheap gear as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEoUKqg6SdA

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:43 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Lets be fair though. Blizzard gave up on removing duped items and controlled the economy by restricting drops to absurd levels. It cut both ways. If there was no duping in D2, the drop rates probably would have been 100x higher, no joke.


As far as I know the original drop rates for the high runes was still extremely low. I remember hearing things about the one in a million chance for a Zod rune. I'm not convinced the rates would be any higher if there was no duping. Unless their philosophy shifted, D3 is a pretty good example of them keeping drop rates low in terms of say Legendary items.

ProZac wrote:
Chen wrote:I think Mosc has the right idea. Inferno is New Game+. As was posted almost every piece of gear you could need drops in Hell difficulty. Where you NEED that gear is Inferno difficulty. Its actually probably reasonable to say that the New Game+ aspect really only even starts in Act 2. Act 1 is clearable in hell gear and it drops ALL the possible gear you could need.
Act 2 is clearable in fairly cheap gear as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEoUKqg6SdA


My point was you need to do either farming for gold or inferno item farming to get the necessary gear to hit act 2. But getting through act 1 is probably doable with minimal Hell farming. But yes, the gear needed to finish the game is getting cheaper and cheaper. And it will continue to do so. Only the very top pieces of gear are the ones that are increasing in price. Gear I bought for my barb 2 weeks ago is selling now for half if not less than what I paid for. A couple more weeks and the gear necessary to clear Act 3 will likely also be dropping in price, just because more and more people are farming act 1 to get their gear.

Perfect pieces of gear are going to be more and more expensive because they're going to stay rare (things like 200 int pieces and the like). But even now things with up to 170 main stat, 100 vit and a third stat of your choice (MF, All res) are getting cheaper. Once you're decked out in gear so that new gear is in the 10s of millions, you're back to the old D2 standard of needing to find a good item and trade it for something you want. Except you have the added ability to find multiple shittier items and build your way to that good item via the AH.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:35 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I remember hearing things about the one in a million chance for a Zod rune.


IIRC it was about 1/100000

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:40 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
Chen wrote:I remember hearing things about the one in a million chance for a Zod rune.


IIRC it was about 1/100000


That doesn't seem right considering the numbers I had above for a Jah rune is 0.00025% which is 1/400000. Unless those numbers are wrong...they came from one of the Diablo fan sites Gem finding guide.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Obby » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:42 am UTC

They changed the drop rates of runes very frequently (at least while the game was still being patched). It's possible any information you see on the internet is wrong.

I can say that I did manage to find every rune in D2 at least once, though. I had my own legit Enigma, it was awesome.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:43 pm UTC

Obby wrote:They changed the drop rates of runes very frequently (at least while the game was still being patched). It's possible any information you see on the internet is wrong.

I can say that I did manage to find every rune in D2 at least once, though. I had my own legit Enigma, it was awesome.


Ok that might explain it, the numbers I had are for version 1.10 though it does say the odds remain the same in the later versions. Its possible they lowered the drop rates at some point prior to that to account for all the duping that was going on in the later stages of the game's lifecycle.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Diadem » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:44 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure that, at least for 1.09 and 1.10, those numbers are still way too generous. I played Diablo 2 quite obsessively for quite a while, and knew dozens of people who played at least as much as I, and no one I know has ever had a single rune drop above Gul.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:41 pm UTC

In DIablo 2, I was completely decked out in perfect hammerdin gear, Ideal MF sorc gear, and a whole bunch of other other characters with decent gear, a lot of which involved HRs. I believe the Highest rune that I've ever seen drop would be a Sur or a Lo. Meanwhile, you kill hell Baal, and you aren't surprised to see 3 green "Breast Plate"s on the ground.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Nylonathatep » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:06 pm UTC

Lol guys, I was just doing some Act 1 Inferno Run when I came across this:


Spoiler:
Image


Spoiler:
Image


There's even a boss.

Spoiler:
Image


and an achievement beating the boss. You don't get this in real life.

Spoiler:
Image



This would have been funnier except the Colorado Batman Rise shooting happened a few days ago :(

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mfb » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:24 pm UTC

The Development hell is rare, but sometimes it is there as a 4th dungeon, together with the 3 defiled crypts.

With patch 1.13, blizzard increased the rate of high runes a lot - a factor of 16 for Zod-runes, and ~10 for many other runes.

The chances for individual runes, if a rune drops, can be seen in this image. 1.13a was a patch version on the test realm, 1.13b is equivalent to the current rates.
If all runes are possible in a drop, the chance that a rune is >Gul is something like 1:150. With an average of something like 1 rune per CS-run, you can really find high runes in 1.13. In all the years before, I just saw one rune >gul dropping, a Ber in 1.09. In 1.13, with less playtime, I found Cham+Jah+Sur+2Lo+multiple Ohm or something like that.

If you are interested in numbers for individual monsters, check the dropcalc (english version is below the german one).

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:15 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I'm pretty sure that, at least for 1.09 and 1.10, those numbers are still way too generous. I played Diablo 2 quite obsessively for quite a while, and knew dozens of people who played at least as much as I, and no one I know has ever had a single rune drop above Gul.

I played 1.08 to 1.10, so I played all of patch 1.09 with A LOT of hours. I got Vex and Ohm from cow runs ffs, this post is an exageration. Farming pindle and baal, I got a sur and lo runes as well. I never dropped any higher than that.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:27 am UTC

ProZac wrote:Also, your drop rates are off: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6262208/
I believe they've been slightly increased since that post (I can't find the update), but ilvl 63 is certainly not the most common.

Here you go:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6214196 ... -6_29_2012

closer to what I said than what you linked to...

65% of drops in act III+IV are "inferno level" i.e. 61/62/63
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Re: Diablo III

Postby ProZac » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:19 pm UTC

When I was a whee little monk, working my way through hell and realizing if I were to be successful in this game, I set myself a goal of facetanking Inferno Diablo with no care for the damage he output. This weekend I completed that goal.

My group got together and pushed our way through act 4 (which wasn't too bad for the most part), got to Diablo and... pretty much instantly exploded as soon as he spawned Shadow Clones. Wizard seemed to be the biggest problem, because of his slow time and Venom Hydra. DH's and Monks just seem to autoattack. We tried a couple of times, from using heavy CC builds to going high burst in hopes of eliminating the wizard quickly. We eventually gave up, and then I went back to try solo. Took a couple of tries, but so long as I didn't get caught by bone prison, all went well.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby BoomFrog » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:18 am UTC

What are the ways to gain Spirit Regeneration? It's only on Monk weapons and helms for rares. I know of Hellcat Belt and Stone of Jordon and the there are some Sets bonuses. Any other uniques that give spirit regeneration? Preferable something level 50+.

I'm just starting inferno and I'm enjoying my 2-hander perma tempest rush build. It basically goes for all the stats that most people don't value on their items, so I got some good stuff cheap. It's interesting how the AH prices sort of create a changing field for "optimal build"
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Re: Diablo III

Postby mfb » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:41 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I'm just starting inferno and I'm enjoying my 2-hander perma tempest rush build. It basically goes for all the stats that most people don't value on their items

Like... resist all, single resist, armor, dex, vita, movement speed, crit chance, crit damage? ;)

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Drumheller769 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:57 pm UTC

So in the middle of the blood and sand quest in act 2 inferno. Not making much progress b/c I cant get a group to complete it so far, but i'm annoyed that most of my yellow drops seem to be level 50-58. I haven't gotten anything good to sell since butcher in act 1. I thought drop rates of lower level items would go down in act 2, but I guess not.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:41 pm UTC

I finally solo'd diablo inferno the other day on my barb. I did it by completely abandoning anything offensive in favor of pure defensive stats. I had >1500 LOH, >600 life regen, 78% damage reduction from armor, ~78% DR from resistances, 40k life, and a 500 damage dagger with IAS on all the usual pieces for an attack speed with frenzy around 2.5 per second. Still almost died when my shadow clone stunned me and shadow diablo started whailing away. Took about 30 minutes... My usual build has about 4x the offense but all the purple bosses in the game can simply be tanked through.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Negated » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:02 pm UTC

Drumheller769 wrote:So in the middle of the blood and sand quest in act 2 inferno. Not making much progress b/c I cant get a group to complete it so far, but i'm annoyed that most of my yellow drops seem to be level 50-58. I haven't gotten anything good to sell since butcher in act 1. I thought drop rates of lower level items would go down in act 2, but I guess not.

Act 2 has better drop rate of higher level items. But for the purpose of farming items, act 1 is a better place.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:41 pm UTC

Act 2 beats act 1 in terms of farming when you spend mroe of your time between champion/elite fights than you do killing the champion/elites. Act 3 farming is better for ilevel 63 items but the drop rates for 61 and 62 are very similar between 2 and 3 so unless speed is a non-factor, act 2 is the endgame farming spot. There is no 63 jewelry, for example. 63's are generally only of extra value as weapons or as tank armor drops. The price of weapons has been falling lately, I'm sticking with act 2 since killing is much faster.

There are some demon hunters with enough damage output where act 3 farming is the most cost effective but these people basically already have effectively have sufficient loot where they're just after money. Demon hunters also don't like the sand gators and the snakes in act 2, so they tend to not far there as well.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Lostdreams » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:07 pm UTC

Looks like the blizzard servers got breached

Spoiler:
Players and Friends,

Even when you are in the business of fun, not every week ends up being fun. This week, our security team found an unauthorized and illegal access into our internal network here at Blizzard. We quickly took steps to close off this access and began working with law enforcement and security experts to investigate what happened.

At this time, we’ve found no evidence that financial information such as credit cards, billing addresses, or real names were compromised. Our investigation is ongoing, but so far nothing suggests that these pieces of information have been accessed.

Some data was illegally accessed, including a list of email addresses for global Battle.net users, outside of China. For players on North American servers (which generally includes players from North America, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, and Southeast Asia) the answer to the personal security question, and information relating to Mobile and Dial-In Authenticators were also accessed. Based on what we currently know, this information alone is NOT enough for anyone to gain access to Battle.net accounts.

We also know that cryptographically scrambled versions of Battle.net passwords (not actual passwords) for players on North American servers were taken. We use Secure Remote Password protocol (SRP) to protect these passwords, which is designed to make it extremely difficult to extract the actual password, and also means that each password would have to be deciphered individually. As a precaution, however, we recommend that players on North American servers change their password. Please click this link to change your password. Moreover, if you have used the same or similar passwords for other purposes, you may want to consider changing those passwords as well.

In the coming days, we'll be prompting players on North American servers to change their secret questions and answers through an automated process. Additionally, we'll prompt mobile authenticator users to update their authenticator software. As a reminder, phishing emails will ask you for password or login information. Blizzard Entertainment emails will never ask for your password. We deeply regret the inconvenience to all of you and understand you may have questions. Please find additional information here.

We take the security of your personal information very seriously, and we are truly sorry that this has happened.

Sincerely,
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Re: Diablo III

Postby ebbitten » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:18 pm UTC

Yea, I got my account banned for third party software... even though i've never used any nor have I been online for a week.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:08 pm UTC

Blog post about the Legendary items is up. Seems like there are pretty huge buffs to the Legendaries giving them a lot of the feel of the D2 ones. Price of Brimstones is skyrocketting currently after the post too. I wonder if they're going to do anything about the Legendary drop rate. Once I started farming in MF gear I've gotten a reasonable number (of albeit crappy ones) so I'm not sure its TOO bad though tons of people on the Blizz forums are of course complaining about it.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:10 pm UTC

Is that why I got 200k for a friggin junk grandfather? For salvage rights?
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:04 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Is that why I got 200k for a friggin junk grandfather? For salvage rights?


I think yesterday the price of Brimstones was at something absurd like 450k at one point. So I imagine any level 60+ legendaries that were below that price got bought out pretty damn quick, salvaged and resold as brimstones.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby ProZac » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:28 am UTC

Paragon Levels were announced. Neat idea, definitely gets rid of the "I played for an hour and accomplished nothing" feel I hated, but I'm not certain it will make me come back. Legendary items and class updates had me saying "Too little, too late". I think with this it's now just a "too late" type of thing.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby Lostdreams » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:38 am UTC

It's definitely a good start. Unfortunately, a lot of people will be viewing it like you are and will not be returning just yet. I expect the game to be what it should have been at release, in ~4 months. Then you'll start to see a playerbase return/increase.

I'm glad to see they did something with 1.04 that wasn't just the legendaries being updated because the "class changes" are a glorified hotfix patch. Bumping the numbers is easy, especially with the minimal testing they did on them, and the only mechanical changes they made were to grenades... but wait!.. they couldn't get them to work and they wont be fixed either. :roll: All of the skills that were broken because of mechanics and not low damage, are still broken.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:50 am UTC

Lostdreams wrote:It's definitely a good start. Unfortunately, a lot of people will be viewing it like you are and will not be returning just yet. I expect the game to be what it should have been at release, in ~4 months. Then you'll start to see a playerbase return/increase.


I gotta wonder how many people will actual return or stop playing. If you go by Blizz's forums it's a fucking shitstorm. Posts about quitting left and right and a few posts (albeit long ones) where people say they like the changes. I'm not really sure how important an effect the population has on an individual's gameplay either. I have to assume the population has dropped a fair bit since release (just like any game). But I've yet to see it impact me in game. The AH's are still full of gear whenever I search for some. The only time its hard to find anything is if you're looking for the absolute top end stuff and even that usually puts a couple of hits. Was it like this to start? Maybe there were pages of top end things then and I just never bothered looking for them. I'd be interested to see how many people still do play regularly though.

I'm glad to see they did something with 1.04 that wasn't just the legendaries being updated because the "class changes" are a glorified hotfix patch. Bumping the numbers is easy, especially with the minimal testing they did on them, and the only mechanical changes they made were to grenades... but wait!.. they couldn't get them to work and they wont be fixed either. :roll: All of the skills that were broken because of mechanics and not low damage, are still broken.


I agree here, the paragon system should be interesting (although I run with a fair bit of MF which kinda hurts that a bit in the end). Though from the preview the Legendary changes were not just number tweaks in a lot of cases. I can definitely see why its not a hotfix patch. Skills I agree likely could have been done via hotfix (although the tooltips would have all been wrong which would be kinda confusing). I'm not sure I hit any skills though that were mechanically not functional. Damage really was the main reason so many skills were considered non-viable.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby ProZac » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:04 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I'm not sure I hit any skills though that were mechanically not functional. Damage really was the main reason so many skills were considered non-viable.
If I recall correctly, you play a wizard? From what I've seen, wizard was the most well designed class. A variety of builds worked. As a monk, for example, Sanctuary is pretty useless, but would be awesome if it was a larger area. Numbers aren't going to make that useful.

My problem with the monk class changes is that it boils down to "we're buffing damage on spirit dumps", but I couldn't see myself changing away from mantra as a spirit dump. you need one mantra, and considering everything else is a defensive skill or passive damage boost (cyclone, clone), it's going to make no difference in how I would play.

I'm slightly surprised about the Blizzard forums being in a rage apparently... I've seen mostly positive reactions, but then again... Blizzard forums.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby jules.LT » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:51 pm UTC

I'll chime in with my "Oh me yarm Oh this is going to be awesome!!!"
My WD is so happy with all the changes. Especially the mana regen bumped from 20 to 45.
And rain of frogs cost decreased from 34 to 12.
And the other buffs to Primary attacks buffed so splinters isn't the only acceptable one.
And the buff to pet survivability.
And the faster attack animations.
And the possibility of searching for off-hands' DPS in the AH(?)
etc.

And the buff of normal monsters' difficulty and drops, so we don't just run from elite to elite without stopping.
And the Parangon levels so a game session is never a net loss.
And the Primary attacks of barbs buffed so Frenzy isn't the only acceptable one.
And the monk's exploding palm effect lengthened so we can actually use it as the new corpse explosion.
And the buff to ilvl 60-62 items' base damage.
And the nerfing of the worst elite affixes.
And the removal of drag-and-dropping skills by mistake.

There's just so much. I can't wait... :D :D
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Will » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:27 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:I'm slightly surprised about the Blizzard forums being in a rage apparently... I've seen mostly positive reactions, but then again... Blizzard forums.

I think you answered your own question. Blizzard could start giving out candy and oral sex with their games and the Blizzard forums would find a way to bitch about it not being good enough.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby philsov » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:34 pm UTC

My WD is so happy with all the changes. Especially the mana regen bumped from 20 to 45.


As much as I loathed Vision Quest, it was pretty damn effective and meant bear/bats/acid cloud spam. I'll wait to see until the patch is live, but for as welcome at the new mechanics are, I'm pretty sure it's a dps loss. I'm pleased to see the high-duration spells (spider queen and manitou, notably) got a huge dps increase, and me not needing 5 CDs (yesyes, VQ needed 4 but I liked 5 for the flex) means I can rock primary + bears/bats/acid cloud + something fire and forget a la previous or locust swarm.

Even with the base mana regen, VQ has been gutted. +30% after using a primary for ~5 seconds makes it inferior to blood ritual and equivalent to spiritual attunement in most scenarios.

Gruesome Feast + new Grasp of the Dead rune will make for a killer combo, especially with the wonderful changes to dogs.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Obby » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:04 pm UTC

I do like all of the changes I'm seeing, for the most part... But I just don't see myself coming back and really playing... Between still not having any PvP and Guild Wars 2 releasing, I doubt I will come back for more than the cursory glance.
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Re: Diablo III

Postby Chen » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:15 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:If I recall correctly, you play a wizard? From what I've seen, wizard was the most well designed class. A variety of builds worked. As a monk, for example, Sanctuary is pretty useless, but would be awesome if it was a larger area. Numbers aren't going to make that useful.


Isn't Sanctuary the one that doesn't let things get close in melee? For a solo monk it does seem pretty pointless (though you can hit things with deadly reach from in it). But its a nice emergency button in a party situation. I think increasing the damage was just the first set of things they needed to do to make some skills even remotely close to viable. A lot of skills were useful at lower difficulties (meaning the concept worked) but were so woefully inadequate in Inferno because they did so much less damage than others. You're probably right in that just a damage increase won't necessarily change too many playstyles, at least not right away.

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Re: Diablo III

Postby mosc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:46 pm UTC

I've pretty much played through all the classes now so the update is something I'm looking forward to. The biggest fear I have is them changing things around so much that my barb gear is devalued or needs to be replaced. That would be very offputting. I probably have $100 worth of gear on him, as per their design a requirement to play a barbarian in act 3 inferno. Witch doctors needed serious help. They were nice with other players, particularly a tank AND another DPS class. The scaling of summons based on the player's stats is a very good idea and should make tank-ish intelligence heavy pieces more economically viable. Now if they just add in a DPS strength based class in the expansion they'll be a much better gear balance. I'm also hoping the changes can make other classes as viable as demon hunters. Few things are as satisfying as the discipline based skills.

The 61 and 62 weapons should have the same base damage as the 63's. The mods differentiate the weapons by tier enough without the huge gaps in weapon damage. The ilevel 55-60 items also should be substantially buffed in terms of base damage. They should not be dominated by a reduced level requirement 5 blue level 63 with no mods. I still think even with that they should add fixed reduced level requirement mods to all the unique weapons in the game sub ilevel 61. Wouldn't effect the endgame economy hardly at all to do that and it would make uniques more exciting in the nightmare and hell difficulties.
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