Dawn of War 2

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Dawn of War 2

Postby Rakysh » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:22 am UTC

I don't know how many of you have been watching how this game progresses, but so far it's looking amazing. The new cinematic E3 trailer is, in my opinion, way better than the intro to the first one, and I can't wait to find out the fourth race. Any comments on the trailer, discussion on the fourth (or even fifth) race etc goes here.

Trailer can be found at: http://uk.gamespot.com/video/945727/6193807/videoplayerpop?rgroup=e32008_story

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Dobblesworth » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:27 am UTC

I've been a fairly strong fan of the Dawn of War saga since the first version was released. Dark Crusade expansion was certainly a pinnacle, but I felt Soulstorm was a bit of a let-down, which ruined the elements of the campaign that DC managed so well, and only improved by adding 2 new race varieties and the token non-groundbreaking air assault units.

Hopefully DoW II will make a fresh start, and with all step-ups, I'm sure the graphical upgrade and improvements to the engine will be a worthwhile bonus.

Cinematic trailer to me suggests:
- Chaos: the Eldar points to a sky that seems to be reddening/engulfed by something akin to a warp storm, which would prelude arrival of the Forces of the Dark Gods. Chaos seems more likely, as then we have the same starter 4 that made DoW I so successful - you have the all-rounder SM's, the brutal melee Orks, the sorcerous Chaos, then the flimsy but very specialised Eldar
- Tyranids: the nebula-like growth you see could in fact be a Nids hive fleet or the spreading of their bio-matter across the stars; Tyranids have been hinted at for a while, so could be in the starting 4 (or 5)
- Necrons: old foe of the Eldar, but might be pushed back to an expansion

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby mosc » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:30 pm UTC

It's Tyranids.

Anyway, big fan. Looking forward to it eagerly. I'm hoping they bring back the heavy story narrative.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:42 pm UTC

The campaign looks like you get to chose which missions you go for, but I think it will still be a story heavy campaign.

And while I don't think its necrons, there is still a chance is chaos. I wouldn't say that its 'nids for certain.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby mosc » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

the orange biomass encompassing the sky wasn't enough of an indicator?
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:38 pm UTC

The huge clouds that look like they might be warp storms, you mean? :P

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby mosc » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:33 pm UTC

a warp storm generally has some electric type effects and is multi-colored. That's just a brown glob of biomass.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Rakysh » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:47 pm UTC

I agree it is probably Tyranids, but it isn't certain till its officially anounced.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:59 am UTC

I was so sure they'd introduce the tyranids with Soulstorm. But nooo... They bring in another sub-unit of the emperium. I think that's a bit cheap (Havn't actually played them, so I can't tell if they're different enough in game, though).
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Rakysh » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:03 pm UTC

I heard Relic thought they couldn't deal with the graphics... And from the 5 mins I played of the SoB, it was just another fairly humdrum faction.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Cyrion » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:34 pm UTC

There were a few things about the gameplay that I didn't like, I thought the dynamic was too much around the base building and not enough on the butchering. But I think they said they made major improvements, so I want to see how well it turns out.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game and how well done it was.

Still, I think it'll be hard for any RTS in the future to surpass a game like World in Conflict.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby CogDissident » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:40 pm UTC

World in conflict had the best endgame. 15 seconds left on a map: Triple-nuke! *BaBoom* half the map is gone, every enemy player is dead, all of them die on respawning, instantly.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby mosc » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:54 pm UTC

The sisters of battle actually became my favorite faction. Not that they brought anything new or that soulstorm was more than a fanmod version of Dark Crusade adding two factions and a terribly thought out campaign.

I'm most excited they seem to be adressing the scale a little bit better. The ratio of space marine firepower to guardsmen firepower needs to be a little bit more obvious IMHO. I'd love to see squads approach 100 for normal units like guardsmen to make it more reasonable when their firepower can near equal a sqad of marines.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby est » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:24 am UTC

I am pretty excited about this. The original is one of the only games in a good while where I could maintain my enthusiasm for sufficient time to complete the game. Most everything else I've played lately has seemed to succumb to the old "just like last level, only with twice the enemies/enemies with twice the hitpoints" trick. Except Portal of course. But that is kind of a special case, really.

I hope that the relatively low unit caps in the first one make a return in #2. I far prefer the DoW feel of low unit cap & strategic points over the usual resource gathering, because when given the chance I will turtle up and then wonder why it takes 3 hours to finish a single mission. Encouraging me to take and hold a number of strategic points across the map forces me think on my feet a bit more instead of settling in to a comfortable little rut, and I definitely enjoy the resultant running skirmishes :)

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Of Negligible Mass » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:36 pm UTC

http://www.dawnofwar2.com/us/videos

Well it's definately 'nids...

Spoiler:
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby the_bandersnatch » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:08 pm UTC

I really think the people who've done the videos for DoW I and II, Dark Crusade, Soulstorm and the Warhammer Online trailer should do a feature length animated film, the trailers have all been uniformly excellent thus far. Can't wait for Dow II.
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Dawn of war 2. Improved metal boxes?

Postby Phen » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:20 pm UTC

A quick (and lazy) seach didn't reveal any topic, so I'm making this one.

There's a multiplayer beta being advertized on Steam right now, starting today 21'th for people who preordered, and either the game is released or the multiplayer beta goes public the 27th. Can't tell which. The fourth race is Tyranids, so if that was your bet, congratulations, you're going to be devoured and your genes are going to be stolen.

Anyhow, is anyone waiting for this? I havn't heard a lot of hype, but then again I don't read any gaming magazines anymore. I had great fun with the first game (minus Soulstorm, which I've only heard about. Mostly because of the quotes regarding metal boxes and spehs elfs.), so if it's good I'll probably get it. It also seems like my only chance of playing something resembling warhammer, at least regarding appearances, since I'm so slow at painting the miniatures I lose my resolve.
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Re: Dawn of war 2. Improved metal boxes?

Postby Xaddak » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

DoW2 is supposed to be, based on what I've heard about changes to the mechanics, Dawn of War minus the suck. Don't get me wrong - DoW is an amazing game. But some parts of it sucked. Like base building.

Ohhhh, base building. How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways...

  • Nothing like an actual WH40k game - yeah there are buildings that get used for cover, but nothing that actively produces units
  • Violates the fact that in your usual WH40k game, you place ALL of your units on the board right away (except for Deep Strike units and I think a couple others). This is because there are very few, if indeed any at all, reasons to deploy your forces one unit at a time.
  • Violates even the damn opening trailer for the original game - you see drop pods falling like so many rain drops. In the game, you instead get one or two at a time, up to a maximum of maybe four or so, and then you get to wait for troops to reload into the buildings.

I'm sure the scale of the game is still going to be more limited than the opening cinematic of the original DoW, but even if it is on a smaller scale, at least keep it in proportion.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby bigstrat2003 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:41 pm UTC

Beta thoughts: Bleah.

I've only tried Space Marines so far, but small-scale battles and lack of unit variety make baby Jesus cry. Also, they took out land raiders, which were the best thing ever.

The game is nothing like Dawn of War, so I feel so lied to in that respect. If you think you're going to buy this game because you enjoyed playing Dawn of War, find a way to try it first. Join the beta, pirate, whatever it takes, but don't buy it based on Dawn of War. All they have in common is Warhammer 40K.

On a similar note, I have no idea what the hell to do to be effective in this game. I noticed, as I was trying to capture a point, that I was getting cut to ribbons by another players Boyz in a building. Aha, I thought! Use the buildings! Except that when I tried garrisoning in a building, my guys in the building got owned. WTF? I can't win.

Space Marines are expensive. A squad of tactical marines (3 marines, no more 10-marine squads like in DoW) costs 500 requisition, which takes you 3-4 minutes to buid up. OK, so they're supposed to be elite units. I can live with that, I guess ("Give me a hundred Space Marines, or failing that, a thousand other troops."), but they're not actually elite. I had one squad get torn to shreds by 2 or 3 tyranids so fast it wasn't even funny. To give you an idea of the kind of ownage my guys suffered, imagine terminators taking on Guardsmen in DoW 1. They had no chance. And this is supposed to be an elite unit? Feh.

It kills me, too, because I was psyched for this game. This was going to be the one true RTS I needed for years. Now, I'm just left pining for what might have been, and will probably be going back to DoW 1 (still the best RTS ever made) if this doesn't improve for me, and soon.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:04 am UTC

Starcraft is the best RTS ever made.

I do think that I'll play DoW2 before I play SC2, however, because I'm not a fan of the "pump out a dozen of these and go zerg the base" style of "strategy" gameplay.

As long as I can make my Khorne Berzerkers, I think I'll enjoy DoW2 just fine. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD and all that.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:39 am UTC

You ... you do know that dawn of war 2 doesnt include chaos, right?
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Lord Miscellaneous » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:19 am UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:You ... you do know that dawn of war 2 doesnt include chaos, right?


No...no Chaos? I'm so unbelievably disappointed. How can this be a W40K game with no Chaos? :cry:

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:42 am UTC

Honestly, I was hoping they were just going to unveil them later.

In that case, fuck DoW2, hello SC2.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Pandercolour » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:40 am UTC

Are you guys playing the same game as I am? Space Marines are really tough. Scouts with shotguns tear through just about anything, tactical squads are pretty much the strongest early infantry.

And I don't know where you guys thought the game would be like the original dawn of war, since EVERY time Relic talked about gameplay they said it was going to be very scaled-down and pretty much exactly what you got.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:15 am UTC

Pandercolour wrote:since EVERY time Relic talked about gameplay they said it was going to be very scaled-down and pretty much exactly what you got.

Fable II was also exactly what Peter Molyneux said it would be. Didn't stop people from complaining.

As for this game, I'm not sure. I like a lot of how it's done, but I feel like the races are a lot less diverse than they were in Dawn of War. Though I've only tried Space Marines and Tyrranids so far. I also fail to see how Tyrranids couldn't have been done in Dawn of War.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby bigstrat2003 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:45 am UTC

Pandercolour wrote:Are you guys playing the same game as I am? Space Marines are really tough. Scouts with shotguns tear through just about anything, tactical squads are pretty much the strongest early infantry.


Tactical squads? Tough? Don't make me laugh. They're the WEAKEST early infantry. I get torn to pieces by everything out there. For 500 requisition, that's not a good investment. I'd rather use devastators + assault than tactical, and that's pathetic. Tactical squads are supposed to be the backbone of the Space Marine army.

Pandercolour wrote:And I don't know where you guys thought the game would be like the original dawn of war, since EVERY time Relic talked about gameplay they said it was going to be very scaled-down and pretty much exactly what you got.


It's this funny thing about sequels. People expect that a sequel is going to resemble the original game in some form. The only way in which Dawn of War 2 resembles Dawn of War 1 (yes, I stand by my statement that this is the best RTS ever made, Starcraft doesn't hold a candle to it :P) is that they're both in the same genre. What Relic did to Dawn of War 2 is like if Bioware had made Baldur's Gate 2 a JRPG. People would have been INCENSED, and rightly so, even though it's still a style of RPG. It is a reasonable expectation that a sequel will be an iterated, improved version of the original, not completely different.

Fuck Relic, basically. Those guys completely screwed over their existing fan base. I had some respect for them because they made good strategy games, now that I see how they treat their loyal fans, I want nothing to do with them. If they wanted to make a Warhammer 40K game that had mechanics like Dawn of War 2 has, they should've given it a different name to denote that it's not actually a sequel to Dawn of War. The way they did it is just cheap, and it's abusing the fans.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:56 pm UTC

Well, what I think:

Where the fuck is the "controls" section of the menu? (IMPORTANT)
Where are the game type options?
Where are the genestealers? :(
(I can tell why the genestealers arent there really)

Oh, and why does it seem like the points I capture dont make much difference to how much I build? As soon as I have a power node with a couple of generators I never need any more.

I can see how this would feel more like the tabletop game. I can also see far more similarities to company of heroes than dawn of war.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Xaddak » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:37 pm UTC

It sounds like Dawn of War Dark Crusade meets Company of Heroes, to be honest.

And the campaign is only playable as the Space Marines? That is what is gets me. What is the point behind that?
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:42 pm UTC

The point is obviously that they can have an actual story...? Wasn't the original dawn of war campaign space marines only aswell?

Not that I like it that way, but it's what they'd do
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby bigstrat2003 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:The point is obviously that they can have an actual story...? Wasn't the original dawn of war campaign space marines only aswell?


It was, but that's not really necessary for a story. Really, any RTS should just rip off Blizzard, and have a campaign for each race, which tells a part of the overall story. It worked great in Starcraft and War3, why doesn't everyone else just follow their lead?

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:32 pm UTC

You know whats funny? Starcraft 2...


... seriously, what the hell kind of example is that? Once blizzard stops ripping off blizzard it might be a good idea to move on.

Anyway, the argument is clearly that they can focus on the story far more this way. Theres also the fact that space marines are pretty much the core, definitive race for 40k. As with dark crusade they can also add a freeform campaign with no story in an expansion once they have too many races to do specific things for. Then theres the fact that writing a script for tyranids could be somewhat difficult. The only way I can think of that they would do it would involve genestealers, which as mentioned earlier have been left out. (nooo :()

To be honest I think the character of the races is the main factor here. At least you can talk to a space marine. The same goes for eldar, but the eldar are meant to be somewhat more enigmatic. Orks are there for fighting and fighting alone and the idea of an ork campaign with an objective apart from go kill things seems bizarre. Tyranids as I mentioned are not particularly eloquent or supportive of free will.

These aren't insurmountable difficulties but relic would be doing alot of dodgy things just to rip off a >10 year old campaign structure.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby bigstrat2003 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:45 pm UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:You know whats funny? Starcraft 2...


... seriously, what the hell kind of example is that? Once blizzard stops ripping off blizzard it might be a good idea to move on.


Huh? I can't parse your sentence. Run that by me again.

Toeofdoom wrote:Anyway, the argument is clearly that they can focus on the story far more this way. Theres also the fact that space marines are pretty much the core, definitive race for 40k. As with dark crusade they can also add a freeform campaign with no story in an expansion once they have too many races to do specific things for. Then theres the fact that writing a script for tyranids could be somewhat difficult. The only way I can think of that they would do it would involve genestealers, which as mentioned earlier have been left out. (nooo :()

To be honest I think the character of the races is the main factor here. At least you can talk to a space marine. The same goes for eldar, but the eldar are meant to be somewhat more enigmatic. Orks are there for fighting and fighting alone and the idea of an ork campaign with an objective apart from go kill things seems bizarre. Tyranids as I mentioned are not particularly eloquent or supportive of free will.

These aren't insurmountable difficulties but relic would be doing alot of dodgy things just to rip off a >10 year old campaign structure.


True, but they could still have a SM/Eldar campaign, which would be better than nothing. Anyways, I think that the Blizzard campaign structure is the best way an RTS campaign has ever been done, hence why I suggest it.

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Xaddak » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:35 am UTC

I hear ya, but even in multiplayer campaign it is SM only.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:13 am UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote:
Toeofdoom wrote:You know whats funny? Starcraft 2...


... seriously, what the hell kind of example is that? Once blizzard stops ripping off blizzard it might be a good idea to move on.


Huh? I can't parse your sentence. Run that by me again.

Blizzard is now releasing with one races campaign per title for starcraft 2. Of course that specific idea doesnt work for dawn of war 2, because any additional title will add races anyway, but saying they should copy blizzard is odd when even blizzard doesn't do that any more.

Xaddak wrote:I hear ya, but even in multiplayer campaign it is SM only.

I hadn't heard anything about that, but that's absurd...
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:29 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:I hear ya, but even in multiplayer campaign it is SM only.

Yeah, when the multiplayer campaign is just the single player campaign with a human replacing your AI ally, what did you expect?

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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Darkscull » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:49 pm UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote:It's this funny thing about sequels. People expect that a sequel is going to resemble the original game in some form. The only way in which Dawn of War 2 resembles Dawn of War 1 (yes, I stand by my statement that this is the best RTS ever made, Starcraft doesn't hold a candle to it :P) is that they're both in the same genre. What Relic did to Dawn of War 2 is like if Bioware had made Baldur's Gate 2 a JRPG. People would have been INCENSED, and rightly so, even though it's still a style of RPG. It is a reasonable expectation that a sequel will be an iterated, improved version of the original, not completely different.

Fuck Relic, basically. Those guys completely screwed over their existing fan base. I had some respect for them because they made good strategy games, now that I see how they treat their loyal fans, I want nothing to do with them. If they wanted to make a Warhammer 40K game that had mechanics like Dawn of War 2 has, they should've given it a different name to denote that it's not actually a sequel to Dawn of War. The way they did it is just cheap, and it's abusing the fans.


You're forgetting that this isn't just a computer game, it's part of a universe that runs across several media.

Many people think of this game as "another RTS based on warhammer, hopefully better than the old one", rather than "a sequel to DoW.
This is a re-imagining of DoW, trying to improve the basic principles of the system, not necessarily following the same criteria you would.

I can't think of any examples at the moment, but I know of games that have been developed the same way, and still been numbered. It's a sequel in a different way.
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

So far I have one major problem with the game.


Where's all the actual fighting? It's like you're just trying to get your troops to take their points faster than they take yours, with fighting reserved for when some vehicle pops up and causes some trouble.
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CogDissident
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby CogDissident » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:42 pm UTC

Well, the fighting comes in when you want to get a point that they have, obviously. If you're not fighting, you're doing it wrong.

Spuddly
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby Spuddly » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:14 pm UTC

I played one skirmish vs. a computer and thought it was really boring and annoying. Then I started the campaign, and absolutely loved it. It's like a 100x better than DOW 1. Very fun fragging dudes and calling missiles down from space, and very pretty. Great physics. I like how when the dreadnaught has to get somewhere, he just walks through the obstacles.
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aireoth
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Re: Dawn of War 2

Postby aireoth » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:07 am UTC

So now that it has been out for a while, Thoughts? Questions? Fetishes?

Personally I like some aspects and hate others, I love the closer to CoH aspect of the game, with squads actually moving to cover during a fire fight. Also the enhanced cover options in the game, much closer to CoH, which in my opinion (which counts for little) is the way RTS's should be moving, cover and multiman squads rather then masses of individual units.

I like the factions, though they have obviously held back units so they have something easy to add-on to existing factions in expansions (Land Raiders and Genestealers). Its nice that a recent Warhammer computer game has broken slightly from convention, because lately they have all been empire/imperium vs chaos, with all the other races just there for flavouring. Space Marines vs Tyranid is fun, personally I'm an Eldar fan first in table top, but I can see why an Eldar campaign would be hard to pull off and make popular.

I also found the multiplayer to be well balanced, though I have yet to try SM or Orcs, I have played Eldar and Tyranid and don't have to many complaints, though the 'nids seem to be lacking unit selection more so then the other teams.

On the downside, I found the campaign enjoyable for the first portion, but as you get to the end, the novelty of the wargear wore off for me, and there really isn't much else to it. The plot is rather generic and isn't really ground breaking , but its also not bad, just not really that motivational. The lack of maps is what bothered me the most, once you've been to all three planets you've pretty much played all the maps, and you just play the same ones over and over again. Defense was boring and easy, as the AI just clumps into mindless charges, making it a matter of a few well placed specials. being limited to 4 squads means no splitting up in later missions, and I found I just tended to move them around in a clump, and just retreat individuals when needed.

Great potential, for both modding communities (if it proves moddable) and expansions, however on its own, unless you really like multiplayer and skirmishes, there's better single player experiences out there.


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