The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby aion7 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:46 am UTC

Their mother obtains the leek while pregnant? Or perhaps the leek is in their egg, but not that close to them, so they have to obtain it before hatching*.



*I am aware that is not how eggs work
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:06 am UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:Perhaps they lay their eggs in leeks, or maybe they have a larval form that feeds on a leek?
I like this explanation, but only because the thought of larval ducks amuses me.
-or-
Perhaps the mother feeds on leeks and, while making the egg, reproduces one that's to scale. This is only a temporary leek, though. They need a leek to survive, but not specifically theirs.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:10 am UTC

Interspecies Farfetch'd Wars over patches of wild leek growth in the forest?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby hideki101 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:56 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Interspecies Farfetch'd Wars over patches of wild leek growth in the forest?

I want to see a nature documentary on this.

I always assumed that farfetch'd nested near leeks. 'Course, that leaves the question where there are leek patches in the day care center. Maybe the daycare people keep a garden?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby OmegaLord » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:51 pm UTC

People apparently do eat Pokémon. This one guy on life Five Island is trying to catch a fish for dinner, so either fish exist or Pokémon are tasty.
So what do you guys know about *glances down at sheet* the kingdoms of orgasms
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Aikanaro » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:36 pm UTC

Maybe the Pokemon makes a nest of leeks? Then the hatchling just picks one up out of the nest when it hatches....
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:06 am UTC

Aikanaro wrote:Maybe the Pokemon makes a nest of leeks? Then the hatchling just picks one up out of the nest when it hatches....
This seems possible, but then ditto throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Then again, ditto screws up most of the explanations. Nesting by leeks might work, and the larval Farfetch'd could work without worrying about who the mother is. Of course, you have to wonder why nobody has ever seen a larval Farfetch'd.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Maseiken » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:42 am UTC

OmegaLord wrote:People apparently do eat Pokémon. This one guy on life Five Island is trying to catch a fish for dinner, so either fish exist or Pokémon are tasty.

Pretty much any farming of animals in our world is replaced by Pokémon in theirs. Although I've never seen a sheep pokémon.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Mo0man » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:47 am UTC

Mareep? and possibly others?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:58 am UTC

Mo0man wrote:Mareep? and possibly others?
Would a mareep's meat hold a charge?

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Zak » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:01 am UTC

Mareep: A delicious shock to your senses!
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby wst » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:00 pm UTC

They might not eat sheep at all. They have Dibison instead, with much less electrical pizazz.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:13 pm UTC

Well apparently they drink PokeMilk, so I guess other animal based food would also be available.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby hideki101 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:22 pm UTC

Ann_on_a_mouse wrote:
Aikanaro wrote:Maybe the Pokemon makes a nest of leeks? Then the hatchling just picks one up out of the nest when it hatches....
This seems possible, but then ditto throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Then again, ditto screws up most of the explanations. Nesting by leeks might work, and the larval Farfetch'd could work without worrying about who the mother is. Of course, you have to wonder why nobody has ever seen a larval Farfetch'd.

Well... the ditto transforms into the same species...wait. Would that mean getting down on your clone? and what about ditto breeding with genderless pokemon?

In regards to the larval form, I would say the egg itself is the larval form. in the pokemon anime, when eggs "hatch", they glow and then transform into the pokemon it "hatches" into, the only exception seems to be togepi.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:14 pm UTC

hideki101 wrote:
Ann_on_a_mouse wrote:
Aikanaro wrote:Maybe the Pokemon makes a nest of leeks? Then the hatchling just picks one up out of the nest when it hatches....
This seems possible, but then ditto throws a monkey wrench into the whole thing. Then again, ditto screws up most of the explanations. Nesting by leeks might work, and the larval Farfetch'd could work without worrying about who the mother is. Of course, you have to wonder why nobody has ever seen a larval Farfetch'd.

Well... the ditto transforms into the same species...wait. Would that mean getting down on your clone? and what about ditto breeding with genderless pokemon?

In regards to the larval form, I would say the egg itself is the larval form. in the pokemon anime, when eggs "hatch", they glow and then transform into the pokemon it "hatches" into, the only exception seems to be togepi.
The issue with ditto is that it only superficially resembles the pokemon in question. It doesn't change its behavior in any meaningful ways so it wouldn't make a nest out of leeks. I think ditto does basically equate to your clone though. It can only transform into what it has a reference for, so it wouldn't become an ideal female/male form of that pokemon. It would just be that pokemon with the relevant changes. I can't really say much for genderless pokemon. Maybe the ditto just emulates the pokemon and, through some kind of instinct, lays an egg with its least evolved form inside of it.
On a side note, bulbapedia's breeding page makes this thread seem weak by comparison. I hadn't thought of half the things that they bring up there.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby a386 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:04 am UTC

does anyone remember that one episode of the tv show where they wind up on an island populated by giant-sized robot pokemons and it turns out it's a theme park? everyone lost all their pokemon and then pikachu opened up all the pokeballs and then they would speak to each other and it was subtitled, and not only were these pokemon capable of emotions like fear of abandonment and friendship and worrying about if they were essentially morally good or bad, they all spoke one language that all the other pokemon understood. Meowth learned english just by listening to it real hard or something. that episode was what threw a spin on it all to me: as it turns out, pokemon are nothing but adorable humans with superpowers, separated by a language barrier. how is it these dudes are living basically like animals? how is it they don't build houses for themselves and shit instead of like hunting for food? this was early on, too, before god and time and space became things you could capture in a pokeball and i totally gave up on it.

maybe people are new to kanto and pokemon still live a very tribal way of life, and the first human colonists mistook them for animals because of their simplistic language, and started this whole culture of buying and selling and capturing and training them and then someday meowth will head the pokemon liberators front because he understands civilization, and the pokemon will rise up and demand rights and start having translators and shit. basically pokmeon takes place in the point of the pokmeon-world history where the slave trade is still going on and nobody questions it, except the slave trade has this element of cockfighting thrown in and the prejudices are stronger because pokmeon bare less resemblance to humans. also there are regular animals in the rest of the world, just not on these islands like kanto and jhoto and the other places this shit is taking place.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby fishyfish777 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:23 am UTC

a386 wrote:does anyone remember that one episode of the tv show where they wind up on an island populated by giant-sized robot pokemons and it turns out it's a theme park? everyone lost all their pokemon and then pikachu opened up all the pokeballs and then they would speak to each other and it was subtitled, and not only were these pokemon capable of emotions like fear of abandonment and friendship and worrying about if they were essentially morally good or bad, they all spoke one language that all the other pokemon understood. Meowth learned english just by listening to it real hard or something. that episode was what threw a spin on it all to me: as it turns out, pokemon are nothing but adorable humans with superpowers, separated by a language barrier. how is it these dudes are living basically like animals? how is it they don't build houses for themselves and shit instead of like hunting for food? this was early on, too, before god and time and space became things you could capture in a pokeball and i totally gave up on it.

maybe people are new to kanto and pokemon still live a very tribal way of life, and the first human colonists mistook them for animals because of their simplistic language, and started this whole culture of buying and selling and capturing and training them and then someday meowth will head the pokemon liberators front because he understands civilization, and the pokemon will rise up and demand rights and start having translators and shit. basically pokmeon takes place in the point of the pokmeon-world history where the slave trade is still going on and nobody questions it, except the slave trade has this element of cockfighting thrown in and the prejudices are stronger because pokmeon bare less resemblance to humans. also there are regular animals in the rest of the world, just not on these islands like kanto and jhoto and the other places this shit is taking place.


Because cute, adorable animals forcefully enslaving human beings and making them beat the crap out of each other wouldn't make much of a show :roll:
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:24 am UTC

a386 wrote:As it turns out, pokemon are nothing but adorable humans with superpowers, separated by a language barrier. how is it these dudes are living basically like animals? how is it they don't build houses for themselves and shit instead of like hunting for food?
Opposable thumbs. :wink:

Bulbapedia wrote:When a Pokémon hatches from an egg during both Generation II and Generation III, it is at level 5; however, Pokémon can be found in the routes around the player's hometown that are leveled lower than this, down to level 2. This oddity has been addressed in Generation IV, where all hatched Pokémon started at level 1.
This could be easily explained by saying that breeding two pokémon that have be well raised, and are in peak health, results in better "conditioned" offspring than untrained wild animals breeding.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Mr. Lostman » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:31 am UTC

GhostWolfe wrote:Opposable thumbs. :wink:

You have PSYCHIC Pokemon. They don't need "opposable thumbs."
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Yuri2356 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:33 am UTC

Also - Tentacles! tentacles.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby a386 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:36 am UTC

fishyfish777 wrote:
Because cute, adorable animals forcefully enslaving human beings and making them beat the crap out of each other wouldn't make much of a show :roll:

man i would totally watch reverse pokemon.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Zak » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:50 am UTC

Even just without the people it would be better.

Imagine, if you will, the kind of intense political manuvering that the lead Alakazam would need to take against the opposing party of communist Hypnos in order to resist a hostile takeover....


*awesome*
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:13 am UTC

Z.A.K wrote:Even just without the people it would be better.

Imagine, if you will, the kind of intense political manuvering that the lead Alakazam would need to take against the opposing party of communist Hypnos in order to resist a hostile takeover....


*awesome*


As someone who owned a L100 Hypno in Yellow, let me assure you that it would get its ass kicked. By mine at least.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:31 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Z.A.K wrote:Even just without the people it would be better.

Imagine, if you will, the kind of intense political manuvering that the lead Alakazam would need to take against the opposing party of communist Hypnos in order to resist a hostile takeover....


*awesome*


As someone who owned a L100 Hypno in Yellow, let me assure you that it would get its ass kicked. By mine at least.
Hypno is way slower than Alakazam, it wouldn't stand a chance.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Zak » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:33 am UTC

You guys are thinking too small.

I'm talking interspecies war.

Large scale pokemon war would be too awesome to exist before it collapsed into a black hole of awesome.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:55 am UTC

Maybe that's why we were able to enslave pokemon in the first place. They killed each other off in a massive interspecies war just before we came along. When we showed up we just swept up the survivors and they were too weak to fight back. All the legendary pokemon coming out of the woodwork are just trying to set things right.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Mo0man » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:48 am UTC

Hypnos have more normal defense and less special defense if I remember, so they would do poorly against Alakazam, but well against... say a Slaking
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby a386 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:21 am UTC

i think we swept them all up by technology. give the islands a few social generations to progress and the human colonists would have beached their boats on shores with whole cities carved up in the side of Mt. Moon, with factories and a whole financial sector, and there would be a civil rights movement from the predominantly poor jigglypuffs, who live in the slums, trying to gain the vote which is currently reserved for clefairys.

they have like a march on the capitol building and there's a helicopter camera shot of it, and it's just this sea of pink rolling steadily up to the stone steps like a swell of the marshmallow ocean

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Pizzashark » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:54 pm UTC

Z.A.K wrote:You guys are thinking too small.

I'm talking interspecies war.

Large scale pokemon war would be too awesome to exist before it collapsed into a black hole of awesome.


Make it like Aliens versus Predator with the humies in the middle, trying to get the hell out of there so they don't die horribly.

But then again, Charmeleon torched Ash like every other show, didn't he?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

Some Asshole wrote:
Z.A.K wrote:You guys are thinking too small.

I'm talking interspecies war.

Large scale pokemon war would be too awesome to exist before it collapsed into a black hole of awesome.


Make it like Aliens versus Predator with the humies in the middle, trying to get the hell out of there so they don't die horribly.

But then again, Charmeleon torched Ash like every other show, didn't he?

Charmeleon wasn't actually trying to kill Ash though. It was more of a "I'm not listening to you" kind of burn. You'll know when a charmeleon wants to kill you.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby aion7 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

Ann_on_a_mouse wrote:You'll know when a charmeleon wants to kill you.

No, you won't. You'll be dead.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:19 pm UTC

aion7 wrote:
Ann_on_a_mouse wrote:You'll know when a charmeleon wants to kill you.

No, you won't. You'll be dead.

Okay, you'll know a few moments before a charmeleon wants to kill you. Besides, immolation takes a long time.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby hideki101 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:02 am UTC

Ann_on_a_mouse wrote:Besides, immolation takes a long time.

Or slashing.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Mo0man » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

did... did he just SLASH AN ARBOK IN HALF?
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Ann_on_a_mouse » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:did... did he just SLASH AN ARBOK IN HALF?
I'd say it was more a 3/4:1/4 cut, but it was definitely bifurcated. I'd hate to see what a charizard would do to that thing.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Maseiken » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:38 am UTC

Man.
Note-to-self: Do not piss off a Charmeleon.

Although Since I'm in Sinnoh and don't have the National Pokédex, it's not that big a problem yet.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby ponzerelli » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:42 am UTC

a386 wrote:i think we swept them all up by technology. give the islands a few social generations to progress and the human colonists would have beached their boats on shores with whole cities carved up in the side of Mt. Moon, with factories and a whole financial sector, and there would be a civil rights movement from the predominantly poor jigglypuffs, who live in the slums, trying to gain the vote which is currently reserved for clefairys.

they have like a march on the capitol building and there's a helicopter camera shot of it, and it's just this sea of pink rolling steadily up to the stone steps like a swell of the marshmallow ocean


You should just write your own novels about it, I would totally read them.

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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:30 am UTC

Some Asshole wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:I guess my point is.. I can accept that the Necro Hills have gobs of skeletons and zombies on them as they are imbued with the energy of the deadworlds, causing those who die there to rise again and go forth with a hatred of life, yet unable to travel very far from the Necro Hills and the source of the dark energy that powers them.... I can accept ancient dragons seeking far away caves as their home, to slumber the centuries away on their giant horde of ancient treasure... I cannot accept that the Hill Giants around the town of Waypointia (where you hang between levels 10-15, more than likely) who have enslaved the Hill Gobbos wouldn't overrun and enslave the Forest Gobbos around the town of Startia (where you hang between levels 1-10) because, frankly, there's no natural barrier between the two, unless you count the centipedes between the two (which are tough but beatable for a level 8 party, but easy to escape in case your level 3 party wanders too far south)

And yet, that kind of crap happens all the time.

As far as Bidoofs being everywhere... they look like poofy groundhogs to me. Makes sense that a low-end herbivore would be more or less everywhere.


I always had more issues with the fact that you've got RPGs where you can ascend to literally god-like heights (example: Throne of Bhaal, where you were in your upper 30s by the end) and yet still apparently have to obey the rules. You could be strong enough to obliterate an entire army without a scratch (see: Oasis encounter on the way to Amkethran), yet apparently you have to listen to the guards, who you could very likely one-shot by that point?

Wouldn't any sane guard just kinda try to be several miles away from you if you decided to stop listening to the rules?

And this is why guards were made for getting shanked from behind.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby arcticfox.sq » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:24 am UTC

Has no one seen this yet? I thought it was fitting, considering the topic. It's made by the dude who does VG cats, and it's a whole webcomic about the pokemon game! Hilarious.
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Re: The Logical and Ethical Shortcomings of the Pokémon Games...

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:01 am UTC

Pfft, only cowards hide in shadows. Real men walk up and start killing and don't stop till they're all dead.
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