Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby sam_i_am » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:01 pm UTC

I went 3-0 at my fnm.

Match 1 was against UW Humans. It was a decent deck, but the person playing it had borrowed it from a friend, and was inexperienced. I went 2-0;

Match 2 was against Frites. I won game 1 despite my opponent reanimating an elesh norn. , got stomped by lingering souls in game 2, and I won game 3.

Match 3 was against A Red/Green brew made mostly from cards from the m13 prerelease, and a starter deck. I won the first game. The second game, he got all Flinthoof Boar and TItanic growth, and I lost, and I won the third game.

Wasn't that competitive this week, considering that a bunch of people from my area went to GP Columbus

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:34 pm UTC

I'm thinking about buying the cards to put together the following deck (taken from an article from years ago) for casual play. I haven't looked at any of the more recent sets since I stopped buying cards several years ago (I think the last set I have stuff from is Zendikar, although I don't have anything from between Dissension and Zendikar). Is there anything significant that I should be including in the deck from the newer sets? The idea of the deck is to use Mycosynth Lattice to turn everything into artifacts and then blow up all of your opponent's permanents with Shattering Spree. I'd like to stay as close as possible to the original plan for the deck, but just update the support cards and add in anything new and amazing. I'd like to not spend tons of money on the deck, so anything new should be (relatively) cheap if possible.

Spoiler:
4 Great Furnace
8 Island
7 Mountain
4 Seat of the Synod

3 Hearth Kami
4 Neurok Transmuter

4 Guardian Idol
4 Izzet Signet
3 March of the Machines
4 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Remand (I'll probably swap these for mana leaks to save money)
4 Shattering Spree
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast


The article was http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/A ... daily/bb60, if anyone is interested in looking at the author's intentions with the deck.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:42 pm UTC

d0nk3y_k0n9 wrote:I'm thinking about buying the cards to put together the following deck (taken from an article from years ago) for casual play. I haven't looked at any of the more recent sets since I stopped buying cards several years ago (I think the last set I have stuff from is Zendikar, although I don't have anything from between Dissension and Zendikar). Is there anything significant that I should be including in the deck from the newer sets? The idea of the deck is to use Mycosynth Lattice to turn everything into artifacts and then blow up all of your opponent's permanents with Shattering Spree. I'd like to stay as close as possible to the original plan for the deck, but just update the support cards and add in anything new and amazing. I'd like to not spend tons of money on the deck, so anything new should be (relatively) cheap if possible.

Spoiler:
4 Great Furnace
8 Island
7 Mountain
4 Seat of the Synod

3 Hearth Kami
4 Neurok Transmuter

4 Guardian Idol
4 Izzet Signet
3 March of the Machines
4 Mycosynth Lattice
3 Remand (I'll probably swap these for mana leaks to save money)
4 Shattering Spree
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast


The article was http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/A ... daily/bb60, if anyone is interested in looking at the author's intentions with the deck.

Thanks in advance for your help!


Looks like a fun deck. I have a few ideas you could consider if you want. Shattering Pulse is alot slower than shattering spree, but it is reusable artifact desctruction. If you wanted to venture into green, you could use Splinter, and if you hit a basic land with it, you can cripple a mono-colored deck real well. Horde-Dragon is reusable artifact destruction on a 5/5 flying body, but is a little pricey (mana-wise).

You could try and work Darksteel Forge in somehow (although they are not cheap, so maybe they are not an option), maybe with Tinkers, Arcsum Dagsum or Master Transmuters, and then just blow up the whole board with Nevinyrral's Disk or Oblivion Stone (I have a friend's commander deck that tries to that exactly that).

Other options I can think of are Goblin Tinkerer and Gorilla Shaman (Shaman is basically "R: Destroy target land" while the lattice is in play).

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:56 pm UTC

FNM Report. I went 4-1 playing R/G Aggro again. Unfortunately, I would finish out of the money even at 4-1 with 27 players.

Round 1: 1-2 Loss vs. U/B Zombies

This is a tough matchup for my deck. In the final game, we managed to get 4 Geralf's Messengers on the board (combination of regular messengers and Phantasmal Images), making it impossible for me to clear his board with Bonfire or attack on the ground.

Round 2: 2-0 Win vs. Mono Red

This was a pretty new player and not even close.

Round 3: 2-1 Win vs. Mono Blue Artifacts

This was also a newer player and his deck wasnt as good as he wanted it. I lost game two when he played a Chimeric Mass with 7 counters on it, and then cast Shape Anew on a Menmite into a Golem Artisan, and proceeded to fly over my head with a giant flying, trampling Chimeric Mass. I cant say that happens alot.

Round 4: 2-0 vs. Elves

He got paired up (there goes my strength of schedule tie-breakers) and his deck wasnt too great either. It was pretty easy, but I was bummed I was paired down this round.

Round 5: 3-1 vs. Solar Flare

He got paired up as well (again!), but he is at least a fairly decent player and his deck is fully stocked. He is also the slowest magic player I have ever seen., which was frustrating. I think his games were literally the last ones done in each round. In the final game, after much back and forth he was down to 5 life, and I ended up casting Zealous Conscripts with nothing good to take twice in a row in order to get in with the hasty damage to win. We had some interesting interactions with his Phantasmal Images and my Kessig Wolf Runs keeping them in check, but overall it was pretty back and forth action.

So overall, went 4-1, but 3 of the rounds were against pretty sub-par competition and the way the pairings worked out pretty much guaranteed I would be out of the money after round 1 even though I finished 4-0.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

People on MTGO today keep having me go first even when I lose the roll. It's very strange.

(And this is in drafts, where you hardly ever have a valid reason to want to go second.)

*edit* and just played against someone who kept a 1-land hand on the play in game 3. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Babam » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:06 pm UTC

Hey fora people, during my recess from these fora and now I've spent the last eight months becoming and working as a Regional (or Level 2) DCI Magic Judge. I've had a blast traveling across the US working as a judge at large events such as Grand Prix Salt Lake City, or over ten separate Starcitygames.com Open Series events. Thanks to the judge program I've helped tackle my social anxiety and made some great lifelong friends in the process. I started playing Magic the Gathering during Invasion block and recently came back during M12 because some of my co-workers played during lunch. After I left that company I started checking out my Local Game Store and quickly got hooked on FNM, until I noticed players not having a rules resource. I pretty quickly took on that role and started working with other stores in the area. When GP Austin came around I didn't apply for the staff call, but after watching my fellow judges work and meeting plenty others of them, I decided judging was something I really wanted to dedicate my self to. Since then I've worked countless events and pretty much turned it into a full time job. I certified for L1 at one of my stores Grand Prix Trials and passed my L2 exam four months later at SCG Phoenix.
I've kinda lost track of what I wanted to say, I mostly just wanted to share my story and let you guys know that if you ever have any questions about the rules, a card interaction, DCI Policy, or anything else I'd be glad to help out. It's been a while since I've been to these fora but I'm glad to be back.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:07 pm UTC

How can I get my hands on an official playmat? The ones that are big enough to cover a table top. With the separate areas for lands, permanents, attacking creatures, on both sides. You know what I'm talking about.
Last edited by mosc on Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:25 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:06 pm UTC

[quote=Babam]Since then I've worked countless events and pretty much turned it into a full time job. [/quote]

How the compensation/money work for that? I've judged at a lower level for other games in the past (Mostly wizkids games like Mechwarrior) But that was mostly on a volunteer basis. Still, I got to go to a couple of events for free, met some awesome people and had a great time.

Since I've gotten back into Magic and FNMs, I've been thinking about taking the judges test, but I've been delaying because, at least at my local game store, there doesn't seem to be much of a shortage of Judges.

Any idea what the tournament schedule will look like next year? I missed GP Austin since I wasn't playing then, and since getting back I've been looking forward to trying my hand at a more competitive level.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Babam » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:34 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:
How the compensation/money work for that? I've judged at a lower level for other games in the past (Mostly wizkids games like Mechwarrior) But that was mostly on a volunteer basis. Still, I got to go to a couple of events for free, met some awesome people and had a great time.

Since I've gotten back into Magic and FNMs, I've been thinking about taking the judges test, but I've been delaying because, at least at my local game store, there doesn't seem to be much of a shortage of Judges.

Any idea what the tournament schedule will look like next year? I missed GP Austin since I wasn't playing then, and since getting back I've been looking forward to trying my hand at a more competitive level.

The Magic Judge Program is a volunteer program, but most TOs compensate their judges in product and at large events Wizards supplies special promotional cards that fetch a high price on the market because of their exclusivity to judges. I receive around 340 including Meal Stipends for each SCG Open Weekend I work, and smaller stuff like PTQs/GPTS usually just a box I ship for 70-80. GPs can earn me around 650 depending on what promotional cards are in the packet. There are also judge conferences that are organized around the world that we also receive promotional cards for attending and spending time expanding our skills and learning from other judges or teaching other judges if you present a seminar at the conference.

The tournament schedule for 2013 isn't out yet iirc, but I expect a plethora of Grand Prixs, and more than enough SCG Open events.

If you're interested in becoming a judge, I suggest getting in touch with your Regional Coordinator (found here) or a judge from your store. They can set you in the right direction and help you figure out if the judge program is right for you.
Last edited by Babam on Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:27 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:59 pm UTC

Achievement unlocked: topdeck Sign in Blood and use it to deal the final two points of damage to your opponent.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:13 am UTC

Tried out a new deck. Went 1 and 3.

I tried twerking between matches, but honestly I was a bit on tilt and not paying as much attention to what I was doing as I should have been.

Spoiler:
Creatures
Planeswalkers
  • 2x Liliana of the Dark Realms (2)(B)(B)

Artifacts

Instants
Lands

Totals
  • Cards: 60
  • Creatures: 15
  • Lands: 26


The big thing I think is it needs some Dual Lands to make running BB stuff like Phyrexian Crusader and/or Ichor Rats a little easier.

Also might ditch the Blighted Agents to run more blue control and let the Plague Stingers and Inkmoth's be all my evasion.
I tried running a few different combinations of Negate and Essence Scatter, but nothing really felt right.

I love Virulent Wound, but I think it should go to the sideboard in favor of something else. Maybe Duress or some one-drop creature.

I thought about using Duty-Bound Dead, a one-drop Exalted plus Inkmoth could be pretty good, especially if you stick Hand on top of it.



Another thought would be to just go mono-black, throw some Doom Blade/Murder in there, run all my BB creatures and spells, and maybe find one more Liliana.
Though I'll miss out on Viral Drake and Fog Bank.

EDIT: Maybe something like this, still in Blue/Black

Spoiler:
Creatures
Planeswalkers
  • 2x Liliana of the Dark Realms (2)(B)(B)

Artifacts

Instants

Lands

Totals
  • Cards: 60
  • Creatures: 12
  • Lands: 24


I keep having the feeling that there's some card that obviously belongs in this deck that I'm ignoring or forgetting about.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:02 pm UTC

I'd throw in Mutagenic Growth. It's well worth it even when you're not playing green. Early game (which is when infect wins), paying 2 life to give your opponent 2 poison counters is almost certainly worth it.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:52 pm UTC

Yea, they were in my sideboard, got a few good uses out of 'em too.

I also thought about running my Hinterland Harbors and throwing in Rancor.

I dunno.
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Yes.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:51 pm UTC

I posted a UB infect deck earlier. Predator's gambit works very well. the infect lord is pretty crappy, I'd run ichorclaws instead. Couldn't imagine running a contagion engine in that deck. Waaay too slow.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:45 pm UTC

Help me decide on a FNM deck for this week. I am kicking around a couple of options.

#1 U/G Miracle-Grow Delver: It is a fast deck and there are many lines of play, making it an engaging deck to play. I dont have much experience playing a delver deck, so play errors could be common. My meta has almost entirely shifted away from delver, so I am hoping that not alot of people would have hate for it.

Deck list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Thought Scour
4 Ponder
4 Gixation Probe
4 Vapor Snag
4 Gut Shot
4 Mutagenic Growth
2 Rancor
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Cavern of Souls
9 Island
1 Forest

#2 Home-brew B/W/G Planewalker control with Cathars' Crusade abuse. The power level is down on this one, but it is fun to play. Its a little slow out of the gate, and can easily stumble on mana, but it can be alot of fun in the late game. The idea is to wipe/control the board early, and then start churning out dudes with planeswalkers and lingering souls. If there is a Cathars' Crusade in play the dudes become really big quickly.

3 Thragtusk
1 Disciple of Bolas
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Borderland Ranger
4 Lingering Souls
2 Ajani
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk, Veil Cursed
3 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Day of Judgment
2 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Dismember
3 Cathars' Crusade
3 Sphere of the Suns
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Forest

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:35 pm UTC

The first deck there has a lot of the pieces of a traditional delver deck but I don't understand the win condition. You're going to weenie them to death and your control is vaper snag and gut shot? Doesn't seem particularly fast and the endgame is terrible. You're missing the punch or the control that delver decks can bring.

The second deck has no reason to play green. Stick to black/white. Also, you probably want mortarpads in there. Mortarpad + deathtouch is bone splinter.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:37 pm UTC

I thought about removing green in the second list. I think I just want to use Thragtusk too much that it is twisting the deck idea. B/W would also work fine. Blood Artists or possibly Vampire Nighthawks could fill the void pretty well.

As for the first deck, its not really a weenie deck. The Talrand drakes are a nice swarm tactic but the Dryad is actually the main piece, and he can get large very quickly. It actually struggles most against other Delver builds but performs well against Naya and Pod type of decks. Also, a flipped turn 2 delver that gets a rancor on it can be a ridiculous clock on its own (albeit it wont happen a ton since there are only two rancors in the deck and it would require a naked T2 flip, but still).

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby LLCoolDave » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 pm UTC

mosc, you are not appreciating the insanity that Talrand can do in that list. If you play a dryad on two and a Talrand on 4, there's surprisingly a reasonable chance you can swing for (almost) lethal the next turn. All those Phyrexian Mana spells in the deck are Drake-o-Potence with a Talrand in play. Not to mention that Gut Shot is strong in the meta right now with so many T1 mana dorks and Mutagenic Growth is a great insurrance against bonfire.

I'm not sure that planeswalker control list is going to work out too well right now, with or without green. If you want to play a fun control deck, you might want to try the Trading Post list Brad Nelson played at SCG Buffalo last weekend, that list looked both strong and very fun. Though if you are going for the most fun deck in standard right now, I highly doubt you can beat Elf-Wave (second place at SCG Buffalo). Hoof.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:40 pm UTC

Talrand is stomped on by so many things before turn 5 though. Ratchet bomb, day of judgement, the blue and white miracles, etc. He's a sorcery speed token killer that just doesn't scare me much. I've seen super speedy delver decks be successful but they tend to be much more weenie/speed focused.

WB can be competitive. I wouldn't say it's likely to win tournaments but it can have surprisingly robust endgame from a collection of control pieces. The Dark Ascention WB land gives deathtouch and lifelink. I particularly enjoy the deck with mortarpad + onyx mage + token generation. It's a token deck (paneswalkers, lingering souls) but also one that doesn't need to overrun your opponents to win games. Mortarpad turns chumpers into chumpers and pingers too remember.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:54 pm UTC

WB can be good for exalted in M13. Toss a Sublime Angel in there and some Duty-Bound Dead

Combine with some token generation (for more delicious Exalted triggers off of Sublime Angel) and Fear/Intimidation to let the good times roll.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:38 am UTC

FNM Report:

Brought back the G/U infect deck for Legacy night, with Invigorate and Predator's Strike for a little bit of legacy cred Also mainboarded Ranger's Guile to deal with removal, which turned out to be a good call.

Went a sold 2-2

Match 1 was a Stoneforge Mystic deck, owned me with Batterskull and Jitte. Though I did get off Assault Strobe+Invigorate in game 2.

The deck was running enough removal that I just couldn't keep up, even with Ranger's Guile. I probably should have run some Vines of Vastwood as well, but didn't think of that until just now.

Match two was against a mono-white life gain deck with Ajani Goldmane. Not a good match up for the life gain deck.
There was a neat bit in Game 2 where my opponent ultimated Ajani as soon as possible, putting a 26/26 token into play (had gained 2 life from blocking an Ichorclaw Myr with Ajani's Sunstriker, plus 4 from putting +1 on Ajani Twice to get him up to 6) which gave me a bit of a scare, but I ended up having enough chump blockers to keep it at bay while Inkmoth Nexus put in work.

I don't think my opponent actually touched my life-total in either game.

Match 3 was against a one of the guys from the group I partnered up with for the 2HG pre-release. He was running an interesting looking black deck, but I didn't see much of it since I got two Invigorate derived wins very early on.

Match three was against RDW with Vexing Devils and Goblin Guide, and all the bolts.

Game 1 I made the questionable decision to eat two Vexing Devils. That combined with a Goblin Guide nicely eliminated my 2:1 advantage by turn 2, and it only went downhill from there.

Game 2 I managed to pull of the Invigorate+Assault Strobe turn 2 combo again.

Game three was a pretty epic match, I ate one vexing devil, but the Goblin Guide kept putting Inkmoths and Hinterland Harbors into my hand, freeing up my actual draws for fun stuff like multiple Rancors and Wild Defiance. I hit him for 9 poison counters on turn 5 with rangers guile + 2 rancors on an Inkmoth (with Wild Defiance out), but I was down to 4 life (Goblin Guide hit every turn, plus Vexing Devil and a shock or some other 2 damage burn, and he kept bolting my blockers), and next turn he landed a Flame Rift ending it.

If I don't get my proliferate deck put together by next month, I'll probably pull out G/U infect again with Vines of Vastwood this time as well as Ranger's Guile.

I know for Legacy I could run a solid Goblins deck (I have two old goblin decks sitting on my desk right now, begging to be put to use with some of the new goblin stuff like Krenko), but I just don't want to, infect has me and other than hilarious proliferate interactions, I just don't feel like playing anything else.

I've also been thinking about running G/B infect with some of the 3 drop Black infect creatures like Phyrexian Crusader and Ichor Rats. It would be a little slower than the G/U deck I've got, but I could run some removal and Liliana for some versatility.

Actually, thinking about it has caused me to riffle through my goblin decks, and now I have visions of Krenko and Warbreak Trumpeter combined with Reckless One, Gobblin War Strike and Gempalm Incinerator... tempting
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:30 pm UTC

FNM Report. I went 4-0-1 (ID in the finals). I was having trouble deciding what to play all week. In the end I threw together a last minute deck (I was literally sleeving when pairing was announced). I ran with a Grand Architect deck, with alot of the delver shell around it, although without delvers, interestingly enough. Decklist is below.

Round 1 (2-0): vs. Red/White Boros Metalcraft/Battlecry

He was slower out of the gate than me both games, and I boarded in counters for game two that totally shut him down. Multiple Wurmcoil Enginges crashing in for the win.

Round 2 (2-1): vs. Wolf Run Naya Ramp

One of the better players in our meta. He won game 1 with infect damage off of inkmoths. I took game two on the surprise blowout of Flashfreeze (I love this card out of the board, people realize you are holding a counter and they wait until they can play around Mana Leak, and then you counter it anyway - good stuff). Game three was long and drawn out but eventuallu my army of 5 or some Wurmcoils took the day.

Round 3 (201): vs. Mono White Human Aggro

He snuck in the win in game 1, but I was able to come back in games two and three once I boarded in all of the counters from the board. He couldnt get anything relevant to stick and wurmcoils took over.

Round 4 (2-1): vs. Mono-Black Aggro/Control

I was not looking forward to this deck, because it was another of the best players in the meta, plus he was running Sever the Bloodline and Surgical Extraction mainboard. I took game one, he took game two (after killing and extracting all of the Wurmcoils). I took game three even after he extracted the wurm coils, on the back of the two wurm tokens that were made off the first one. I think I cast 5 vapor snags that game to clear a path.

Round 5(ID): Elf-Ball

We chose to draw for 1st and 2nd. We played out a little of the games just for kicks. He stomped me game one, but I won game two easily after boarding in 11 counters. We got interrupted before we could finish game three but it was looking good for me. I was able to land a wurmcoil and keep flashfreeze mana up, and had a snapcaster mage in hand anyway, and the build I was going against only had one Craterhoof in it anyway.

Decklist:

Creatures: (24)

2 Augur of Bolas
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Grand Architect
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Wurmcoil Engine

Spells: (14)

4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Thought Scour
4 Vapor Snag

Artifacts: (2)

2 Staff of Nin

Land: (20)

18 Islands
2 Cavern of Souls

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:29 am UTC

So, tonight was game night at my LGS. Ran the new version of my B/U infect deck.

Spoiler:
Creatures
Planeswalkers
  • 2x Liliana of the Dark Realms (2)(B)(B)

Artifacts

Instants

Lands

Totals
  • Cards: 62
  • Creatures: 12
  • Lands: 24


Match one was against a Red/Green aggro deck. I used Virulent Wound to great effect killing off mana dorks and weenies, topping it off with contagion clasp while plague-stingers and Inkmoths went to work.

Match 2 was against a mono-green ramp deck. Didn't see much of it due to some bum draws and the effectiveness of Virulent Wound against mana dorks.

Match 3 was a lot of fun. Went up against a monogreen elf deck that was very creature heavy and had Wolfir Silverheart (only saw a few Rancors, Revenge of the Hunted and Green Sun Zenith).

Won game 1 with some critical unsummons, fizzling a Rancor and breaking a Wolfir-fueled attack, while Contagion Clasp and Inkmoth ticked like clockwork.

In game 2 I mulliganed to five (my second hand was a swamp, an island and 4 unsummons). The game was pretty intense though, a few key Contagion Clasps let me regain a somewhat equal footing with a Liliana out. But my opponent managed to keep Liliana suppressed and swung in with a hard-cast Revenge of the Hunted on an Arbor Elf, and Wolfir bound to an Ezuri with 3 -1 counters. A single unsummon could have picked the whole attack apart, but I just didn't have it.

Game 4 was, if anything, even better. We traded a few creatures early on, and I got a Liliana and a Hand of the Praetors out on solid footing. It came down to one turn, the next turn I could play out a plague stinger to trigger Hand, and swing in with an inkmoth buffed by Liliana's -3 for lethal, and I had a pair of Ichor Rats on the field to block. Unfortunately, it wasn't fast enough, My opponent got the miracle trigger on Revenge and swung with Wolfir bound to an Elvish Archdruid, doing exactly lethal after blocks.

It was only afterwards that I realized I should have sided in Essence Scatter over Negate.

Match 4... I don't really want to talk about it.

In game 1, I got some really terrible signals. My opponent was a young kid who didn't know what any of my spells did, and made some beginner mistakes like not fully tapping/untapping their lands. All I saw were burn spells and I figured 'I've got this'. I got a decent start, Corrupted Resolve on a turn five fireball and swung in with Hand of the Praetors + Ichor Rats + Inkmoth for lethal immediately after.

So, having seen only burn for five turns, and not even a Vexing Devil or anything fancy like that, I just sided out all my creature hate for some Spellskites to take some burn hits for me, and Phyrexian Crusaders to work back up to a full deck, figuring that at the very least, they'd be better than some dead creature hate in my hand, and the pro-red may be useful if he starts trying to ping my creatures.

Game 2, I immediately see how wrong I was. Opponent starts out dropping Goblin Fireslinger into turn 2 goblin Fireslinger + Goblin Arsonist. By grace I Duressed a Goblin Grenade out of their hand, but I had nothing to deal with the creatures, especially the Fireslingers. Then out cam a Goblin Chieftain on turn three, and I still had nothing. I had been feeling overconfident and kept a slightly weak hand, the only creature I has an Ichor Rat that got burned on turn four. And then I was pummeled into submission with a Krenko's Command, having never seen another creature.

After that, I was pretty on tilt, I hadn't seen them sideboard anything, so I had no idea WTF was going on. I messed around with my sideboard some more, putting Virulent Wound back in but ended up screwing some stuff up when I couldn't decide whether to play Unsummon or not and left Duress in against a deck that spent most of the game top-decking.

Game 3, I had to mulligan down to four. It seemed like an okay hand, had two Inkmoths, a drowned catacomb and a corrupted resolve. Didn't work out so good, all I saw for the first few turns was corrupted resolve, so I had to choose between attacking or keeping my land open for countering. I managed to make the right decision for at least one turn, countering a Krenko when there were already five goblins in play (two Fireslingers, a Goblin Arsonist and two tokens from Krenko's command) At that point I had a dead Duress in my hand (they were top-decking, never had a hand to duress on my turn) and managed to get another Inkmoth out for enough mana to play... Viral Drake, but by then, the Fireslingers and Arsonist were serious threats to my remaining life. I blocked a few tokens, but didn't get anything exciting before a second Krenko hit the field. For extra humiliation, I lost to my opponent swinging in with just the arsonist, with me at one life. Never saw my spellskites.


Over-all, I feel like the deck performed well and it was me letting the deck down with poor sideboard and mulligan decisions that lost the last two matches. There are a few small tweaks I can think of to bring it to 60 cards, but as long as I can remember how to sideboard properly in the future, I can't think of any major changes to make.
Any advice?


I've also been theory-crafting a new superfast infect deck to replace my G/U deck. but I'm having trouble filling it in. So far I'm thinking the focus needs to be Glistener Elf and Inkmoth, with Rancor, and Mutagenic Growth (the 'inner core', or possibly the 'payload'). The support (the 'outer core', or 'warhead') could also come from green with stuff like Wild Defiance, Unnatural Predation and Ranger's Guile. But that leaves room for 6-12 other spells (the 'Shell'). With a few dual lands, I wouldn't even need to run that many forests, so I could potentially play BB costing spells like Liliana and Ichor Rats or dip heavily into some other color. Or go back to Green for Titanic Growth, Blight Mamba and maybe Blessings of Nature, or just Rot Wolf

The main problem is that the 'core' of the deck is very tempo-sensitive. A key counter or removal could collapse the entire thing, so the 'shell' should probably be very resistant to that sort of interruption (and towards that end, it may be valuable to dip into the 'outer core' to make more room for a thicker 'shell'). I don't think there's anything in green right now that fills that role, but I'm not sure where else to look.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:29 pm UTC

I think I've posted enough about infect decks. What I will comment on is the often-misunderstood goal of tempo decks. Your strategy is to win and win quickly, of course, but the purpose of all that tempo is very specific: You want to force your opponent into sub-optimal plays. The goal is to affect your opponents deck by making it react to your speed. To make it do things it wasn't designed to do. Infect just makes no sense as a midgame aggro strategy. The creatures are not as evasive or hard to control as non-infect creatures and the buffs become increasingly vulnerable to control the longer the game goes on. Focus in on disruptive speed, and your deck will improve.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:52 pm UTC

What would be a good example of 'disruptive speed'?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:42 pm UTC

So, lets say you go first and drop a forest and a glistener elf. I'm your opponent and my hand has ponder, vapor snag, island. I want to play the ponder but I'm basically giving you permission to hit me next turn. Forcing me to say "pass" so I can have the option of vapor snaging the elf makes my deck play sub-optimally. Maybe I only have 1 land and that ponder is the difference between a lethally slow start and shuffling away three non-lands into a much more playable library. The threat must be dealt with. Big creatures hitting the board early are another typical example. Dropping a 5/5 on the second turn puts your opponent in a bind. They may have to play removal before they play mana accelerators, which in turn will cost them usable mana over their first 5 turns total. Infect at it's best is the threat that every single creature on the board can kill your opponent. Glistener elf is an easy example but this situation usually plays itself out with every infect deck at the 2 or 3 mana point. You need your opponent to fear for their very life and adjust their playstyle if you have a dinky little 1/1 and a hand full of cards with just a few mana. One disruptive thing about infect is opponents quickly learn "don't attack a player with an infect creature on the board". They will hang back on defense with even hasty offensive muscle (strangeroot geist, goblin guide in the last block) because they'd rather have blockers around. That's speed forcing sub-optimal play from your opponent.

I don't think infect is going to win tournaments. Buffs need to do their job perfectly for the deck to dominate. A vapor snag on a creature here or a timely flashed snapcaster block there and too much of the deck's muscle is lost. Also, an ichorclaw isn't going to scare somebody with a wurmcoil engine or somesuch on the board, the infect player is on a clock from the get-go. That said, there are many matchups it should win through brute speed. Another key attribute is that many opponents will be unprepared for the threat of third or even second turn kills. If they don't play defensively, they lose, even with a deck that should win against infect. You get that from all-out speed.

There's always a fastest deck in every format and it's going to win a lot of games by being unexpectedly fast and above average draws. It's not going to have the consistency a top-tier tournament deck has, but that doesn't mean they don't eliminate plenty of "best deck in the tournament" decks early on.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:38 pm UTC

Ah, that makes a lot of sense and really gels with my experiences playing the G/U infect deck.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:02 am UTC

Fnm report.
Went 4-0 with my green ramp deck.
Match one.This guy was using a white/green human deck
Match 2. Black exalted with a splash of red
The first game was pretty close, he kept attacking with vampire nighthawk and ended up with 40+ life. I locked my life at 7 with elderscale wurm, and stalled until primordial hydra was at 200/200 and won with trample
Game 2 was worse for me, he kept drawing kill-spells, but I was able to win when he killed Moldgraf Monstrosity, bringing back my Mwonvuli beast tracker, and I searched out Craterhoof.

The 3rd match was by far the closest. I was playing a friend of mine who uses black/white token-humans.
I lost the first game, he played 2 Lingering Souls, and flashbacked them. Thanks to 2 intangible virtues, I ate 24 damage in the air
For the second game I sideboarded naturalize,as well as a Silklash spider. He tried the same trick again, but the spider killed all 8 of his spirits. I then swung in with my giant green creatures
Game 3 was a win for me. He played a champion of the parish, who reached 4/4 before being killed by ambush viper. After that, both of us stalled, and primordial hydra won the game again with a ridiculous amount of trample damage.

Match 4- Green white humans.
This guy had poor luck.
Game one, I green sunned out a Vorapede, and won with increasing savagery
Game 2, I won on turn 4 with Arbor elf->Somberwald->Moldgraf Monstrosity->Craterhoof

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

that sounds like a fun deck, got a decklist?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:54 am UTC

Mono Green decklist

62 cards
24x forest
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Somberwald sage
2x Vorapede
3x Elderscale Wurm
2x Primordial Hydra
4x Borderland Ranger
1x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Mwonvuli Beast Tracker
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
2x Wolfir Silverheart
4x Fog
1x Moldgraf Monstrosity( More of a placeholder than anything else)
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Increasing Savagery
1x Bellowing Tanglewurm

Sideboard
15 Cards
3x Ambush Viper
2X Rancor
3x Naturalize
2x Prey Upon
2x Deadly Recluse
2x Silklash Spider
1x Daybreak Ranger

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Woopate » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:16 am UTC

Did you just let the hydras get that big for fun, or did they NEED to be that big to trample over everything?

If the first, weren't you afraid of removal? It seems kinda like taking a big risk to let it grow that large.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:27 pm UTC

A lot of my opponents removal had been used by that point, so I wasn't too worried, and I just wanted to make sure that the hydra could kill him, vault of the archangel and deathtouch is a pain.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:18 am UTC

I've finally more or less finished my standard deck. I didn't do well in the last tournament that I was in, but I'm sure that that was due to bad luck rather than anything else. The deck itself works quite well when I'm not mana-screwed, which, running 24 land, shouldn't have happened as often as it did in the tournament.

It's my favorite deck that I've built to date, which is saying a lot. Attacking for forty in the air on as early as turn seven, with an indestructible, double striking Overseer with hexproof warms my shriveled Timmy heart. Also, Thalia is super awesome, and the fact that she hurts Delver is icing on the cake. (It would be twenty on turn six, but that's still pretty good.)

Anyway, I've honed it to the point where I need outside advice on improvement, hence this post.

Here it is. I don't think that I've posted it here before...
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:03 pm UTC

Holy mana curve batman! Wow. Yes, you should get mana screwed in that deck. Your curve is top heavy and your mana ramp is non-existent. 14 cards are 5+ and no cards that provide mana OR acceleration! 2 mana sucking Xs WITH flashback! That's on the slow side of stagnant. It's an aggro deck I can't imagine could clear it's own hand before turn 10 with much certainty. Ok, I'll stop being an asshole, sorry.

Since your deck has zero accelerant, it's very easy to explain your curve. You have a curve of 0, 6, 8, 8, 0, 8, 4, 2 and your deck is 40% lands (24/6). The average mana cost per card in your deck is 6x1+8x2+8x3+8x5+4x6+2x7 /36 = 3.44. 40% works out on average to the following on the play
turn 1: 1 land (40% of 7 is >1) total 1
turn 2: 2 lands (40% of 8 is >2) total 3
turn 3: 3 lands (40% of 9 is >3) total 6
turn 4: 4 lands (40% of 10 is 4) total 10
turn 5: 4 lands (40% of 11 is <5) total 14
turn 6: 4 lands (40% of 12 is <5) total 18
turn 7: 5 lands (40% of 13 is <6) total 23
turn 8: 5 lands (40% of 14 is <6) total 28
turn 9: 6 lands (40% of 15 is 6) total 32
turn 10: 6 lands (40% of 16 is <7) total 38
turn 11: 6 lands (40% of 17 is <7) total 44
turn 12: 7 lands (40% of 18 is >7) total 51
So you are talking turn 12 before you can on average cast the top of your deck. Average cost doesn't do you any favors either. You don't reach that 3.44 mana per card threshold until turn 9! Also, your deck's curve is top heavy which makes choosing your cast very difficult without throwing off your curve. You're going to have turns where you draw an oblivion ring on turn 7 but can't evne play it because you need to get all these 5s and 6s out of your hand. You're going to have to chose between miracling a thunderous wrath and casting an angelic overseer, probably with only those two casts to chose from your your entire turn.

Sorry if I'm getting kind of basic on you here but the mana curve in that deck is not competitive. With ramp and casting tricks, big casting cost cards are often used but hard casting 7 with no ramp is a fantasy. I would suggest cutting the top end entirely (a certain 7 casting cost angel), focusing on the human + angelic overseer element along with cheese (bonefire is the greatest thing since sliced bread, play 4 of em). There isn't much standard ramp available in RW so I don't think the 7 casting cost angel is at all competitive. I wouldn't play 4 Thalia's in a deck where you'll already be struggling to cast things. You'll choke on their legendary early and they'll slow your own deck down late. They're a nice card but I don't think they're giving you what you want. Playing 4x curse of bloodletting and 4x angelic overseer is a lot of top end as it is, you might have to cut that back. I'd play more cheap humans, particularly with first strike to utilize your flail (which you probably don't need 4 of).
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:51 pm UTC

I think that you are over-estimating how much Thalia hurts me compared to my opponent. She slows my ability to play removal, yes, but she also messes up the billion or so powerful cantrips that are common to pretty much every colour. Her purpose is to die. Perhaps I could run fewer of her...

If I don't have at least two creatures that cost three or less in my hand, I simply mulligan. And Thunderous Wrath is similarly easy to mulligan out of my starting hand, not that having one would be sufficient cause to do so without two or fewer land in hand.

While the mana curve stuff is useful, I think that the exponential damage output more than makes up for the slowness. Then again, if I were to run three of each of Angelic Overseer, Curse of Bloodletting, and Thunderous Wrath, I could easily fit in three of the Mirran Crusaders that I've taken out, however I want the deck to be playable post rotation, which is why I've started fiddling with it now. If you can suggest a good replacement for the Crusader, I'm all ears.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:34 pm UTC

Well Mulliganing that heavily makes hard casting a 7 even more ludicrous. I've rarely had a planned mulligan strategy with a deck that was more than 4 cards I absolutely did not want to draw or maybe a "really want one" requirement type of card I played 16+ of. Maybe your local metagame has more lenient mulligan rules but tournament mulligans can be costly, ESPECIALLY when your plan is to hard-cast big things. Big there meaning 5. 7 meaning moronically stupid.

Mirran Crusader is a good card but your deck to me cries out for some cheaper human tapping creatures like gideon's lawkeeper or the inferior blinding mage. That will also give you an outlet for excess mana to smooth your sawtooth mana curve. Yes they're phasing out but it's not like the new set won't have similar cards in it. Tappers are white magic staples. With lawkeepers and blinding mages, you have a better chance of getting an angel through for your doubling swings. For a direct replacement for Crusdader, Silverblade Paladin makes a lot of sense in a deck featuring flails. You can use him as an assault strobe. Kruin Outlaw can also deliver the endgame punch you're looking for from the angel for not much cost. There's always hero of bladehold at 4, or odric if you want something in the more recent block. He is a great finisher and flail equipping target himself.

I was not recommending you not run Thalia. I was just highlighting the concerns with running 4 of them. Are you planning to mulligan away starting hands with 2 of them as well?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:04 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:It's my favorite deck that I've built to date, which is saying a lot. Attacking for forty in the air on as early as turn seven, with an indestructible, double striking Overseer with hexproof warms my shriveled Timmy heart. Also, Thalia is super awesome, and the fact that she hurts Delver is icing on the cake. (It would be twenty on turn six, but that's still pretty good.)

For comparison, my standard deck (BW tokens) can, under perfectly ideal circumstances, be swinging for 20 on turn 4. Or 31 on turn 5. I mean, that never happens in reality, but I can and do pull out turn 5 wins in real games.

Point being, you're not playing an aggro deck, and Boros usually really wants to be an aggro deck. I agree with many things Mosc has said. Cut some of your top end: Gisela almost certainly (if you really want to run her for flavor, 1 at most). Curse of Bloodletting should probably also go. It's useless unless you have a board in place that can't be chump-blocked. If you're at that point with the creatures you're running, you've already won. I'm also very iffy on inquisitor's flail. A single creature doing 40 or 80 (or more) damage on a hit is fun, but it's 20-60 more damage than is actually necessary to win the game. One creature I'd definitely try out is lightning mauler. It looks pretty unimpressive at 2/1, but leading with Champion of the Parish -> Lightning Mauler -> Silverblade Paladin (soulbonding it with the mauler) has you dealing lethal on turn 4 unless they have an answer. They *will* have an answer, but you'll be forcing them to find answers rather than doing what they actually want to be doing, which is how aggro decks win games. Your creatures are all big and impressive and scary, but sometimes that's not what's called for. For example, Borderland Ranger is very often played over Wolfir Avenger, which on the surface is a much better card, because most decks making that decision don't *need* a scary 3-drop, they need to fix and/or ramp into their terrifying 5+ drops, which are what actually win the game for them.

If you really don't want to do those things and your plan is "survive until I can cast my big creatures", you need a way to actually do that, and that means fixing up your removal. Get rid of Devil's play. It's slow and doesn't do very much until you're already late in the game, in which case your scary creatures should be kicking the shit out of theirs anyway. You 100% definitely want bonfires. (There's a reason it's a $40+ card.) I'd also add whipflare, if you decide to keep your deck as big-creature-heavy as it is. It deals with obnoxious things like delvers and blade splicers and buys you time, and it's 2CMC, which is a slot your deck is lacking in. I'd also get rid of thunderous wrath. It's either way too slow (cast from hand) or it's unreliable. I'd also get rid of most of your O-rings to bring in red removal. They're slow, and annoying vulnerable. Someone with another O-ring or podding into an acidic slime is going to make you sad, and there really aren't that many non-creature threats your deck needs to worry about. Things like runechanter's pike are scary, but they're a hell of a lot less scary when your creatures have first strike also. It might be worth taking out 2 and keeping them in your sideboard.

Speaking of your sideboard, it doesn't seem very helpful. Intrepid hero seems useless (your goal is gigantic double-striking creatures which deal tons of damage...your creatures should trump theirs anyway), and things like Reverberate, Increasing Vengeance, and Reforge the Soul seem more cute than actually effective.

I guess that's sort of a wall of text. I hope some is comprehensible (and helpful)...I'm rather tired right now.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:50 pm UTC

I agree with all that but I was trying to make smaller tweaks. Scrapping it all for a purely aggro based RW deck would certainly be stronger. Decks without card advantage should never be playing that slowly. Ever. In any form of magic.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Jack21222 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:20 pm UTC

Ugh, this game... every time I try to get out, it keeps pulling me right back in. I haven't played in a Magic tournament in 11 years. The 2001 MD state championships were the last time I played competitively. I recently moved, and didn't bring any of my old cards with me (gave them to my little brother). But, living in a new state can be boring at first, and a nearby gaming store does FNM, so I signed up for an M13 booster draft.

The rules have changed since I last played, so I spent some time brushing up on thew new rules, and studied the set a bit, learning what's strong and what's not.

Expecting to get my ass handed to me, I sit down and open my first pack. Jace. Ok, maybe I do have a chance.

I start trying to draft blue, but it dries up very quickly. It turns out the guy to my right is drafting blue as well, and it turns out that two others at the table (a 9 man pod) were also going blue. I picked up a Murder fairly on, so I figured I might try to go black as my main color if not blue, but that was fairly dry as well. I was getting passed a few nice white fliers though, including a Serra Angel, so I decided somewhere in the second pack to go blue/white.

My first game was against a guy who has been drafting since before Ice Age (who ended up winning the pod). I started with Jace in my opening hand and two lands. Something like 4 turns later, I still only had 2 lands, while he had cast a creature on turns 1, 3, and 4 and just murdered me. This was the guy drafting to my right, and he was running blue/black with a splash of white. Second game, I don't see Jace; it turns into a race of fliers. He wins about a turn ahead of me.

Second match, it's yet another blue/white deck. Practically a mirror match. During the first game, he attacks with griffin protector, and in response to him declaring attackers I cast Fairie Invaders, which is a 3/3 with flash. The next thing he says is "ok, I'll cast [buff that makes the griffin a 4/7, don't know the name]" to which I respond "alright, I won't block." This really pissed him off. He was visibly trembling with anger as I took the damage. It was another race, but he won. Second game, I got out a turn 5 Jace. He was able to kill it after two turns, but the damage was done 2/3rds of his library was gone. We ended up with a creature stalemate, and he drew his last card about 8 turns later. Third game, I got out another early Jace. He again was able to kill my Jace after two turns, but this time I cast Faith Rewarded, which brought him right back into play. Next turn I mill his entire library and tell him to go. GG. He complains about how cheezy that strategy is, but I say I'd expect he'd do the same if he had Jace first pick.

Third match started with my opponent playing an island. ANOTHER F-ING ISLAND. I didn't see a mountain or a forest all night. I start out with Jace in my hand, so I'm happy. Turn two, he Mind Sculpts me (mills me for 7 cards). Turn 3 he mind sculpts me again. Turns out 10% of his decks are mind sculpts. I get out Jace and mill him for 10. He mind sculpts me again, but it's not enough. He can't kill Jace, and I win the mill race. Game two, he doesn't get as many mind sculpts, and I don't get Jace. It's a damage race that I win fairly easily.

So, I ended up 2-1 in my first tournament in 11 years. I didn't win, but I can't complain about a positive record after so long out of the game.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

spidernova
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:08 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:49 pm UTC

Currently, I am attempting to build a green/white human deck. Any tips or suggestions, other than a play set of champions of the parish, and gather the townsfolk? And I am trying to keep this good for rotation, so Innistrad and m13 stuff is fair game


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