Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
EdgarJPublius
Official Propagandi.... Nifty Poster Guy
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: where the wind takes me

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:40 am UTC

Yea, just interesting that it's called Mono-red Devotion, when the devotion just ramps, where the other devotion decks actually try to kill you with devotion.
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

LLCoolDave
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:17 am UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby LLCoolDave » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:59 am UTC

There was no secret meeting where everybody except the french agreed on not playing supreme verdict. In fact, Esper Control was the most played archetype day 1. It just didn't perform well, and I'm not surprised at that. None of these decks are very vulnerable to supreme verdict except for the mono red deck, and even that still has Purphoros + Hammer to just deal tons of post wrath damage. This very well mimics my playtesting experience. Mana is really awkward in Esper, where you constantly have to shock yourself to not fall too far behind and you still frequently miss the right colors to play the things you need, as the deck requires double white, double blue and double black, by turn 4, preferably. The green and green white decks have EXCELLENT cards against control in Boon Satyr and Advent of the Wurm and Mutavault is also fantastic at dancing around Verdict. The monoblue deck has Thassa + Bident to live through a wrath, and then you throw down a random Frostburn Weird, activate Mutavault, swing for 7 and draw 2 cards. How is the esper deck ever going to keep up pace with this?

I also disagree that the red deck is a very aggressive build. It plays no one drops, which is a very strong decision. They've all been downright miserable in testing, as they do absolutely nothing in any non control matchup. I've even stopped unleashing my Rakdos Cacklers because they are never ever going to attack anyway. Instead it tries to abuse Nykthos to play threats that actually matter in a timely fashion. It is a build I vastly prefer. I can also see why there are no fanatics in this particular list as it really doesn't need them. For the small aggro lists they are essential because they are your only hope of ever beating a base green deck.

Current iterations of Esper seem to have way too many different things they need to be able to answer in the early turns, Aetherling is too expensive and slow of a clock against most of these decks and Elspeth doesn't really stabilize against any of these either with the exception of Mono Black. It's really not a deck I would want to be playing right now. If almost every match starts out with "I need to wrath on turn 4 and then we'll see where I stand" with a manabase like that, I'm not sold. When everyone else does powerful things and you only have mediocre answers, it takes the wizardry of a Wafo-Tapa to take the deck to a strong finish. Divination is also way way better than Read the Bones because you very rarely have the 2 life to spare.

There may be a good control deck going forward in the next weeks, but it is fairly clear to me that the rest of these decks have been designed to just play through the traditional UW and Esper control lists we had seen so far in the format. I, for one, welcome our new Nykthos overlords.

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

So, having been bitten by the Magic bug thanks to LRR and others, I did the prerelease draft and yesterday bought a Theros box. I'm looking at building a RW aggro standard deck; this is what I've come up with so far, cribbing heavily from other decks (thanks Az.) I'm planning to hunt down another 3 Boros charms, and I drew one of each of the other scry lands which hopefully I can trade for a playset of Temple of Triumph. I'd like some Madcap Skills to pump the Fabled Hero.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Snark
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Snark » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:28 pm UTC

Advice from someone who has never built a Standard deck before (this may be quite bad):
Spoiler:
I'd get rid of the 3 Ordeals for being too slow and replace them with Lightning Strikes/Shocks or the Boros charms you mentioned. If you can get them, Dynacharge and Massive Raid are both commons that may fit with what you're trying to do.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


Avatar by Matt

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5389
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:08 pm UTC

I don't think the ordeals are too slow. They target, which buffs, and they buff when you attack. The 3 damage is gravy if you get it.

Elspeth is slow. You're going to have six lands for her on average turn 8, some of your lands come into play tapped to boot. It's also conceivable you would want to sit on a buff rather than play her anyway. 6 is right out. A similar argument can be made for Assemble the Legion but I think it's a nice "out" to have 1-of. It's going to keep then honest. 5 is a lot quicker than 6 mana. You will on average be able to cast it on the 6th turn if you wanted to.

Boros Charm so clearly needs to be a 4-of it's painful. The most common problem with these decks is you get stuck with too many buffs. Boros Charm is NEVER a liability, you can just use it to put 4 to the face any time you want. That, or artfully use it as a defensive OR offensive buff as you deem necessary. It's also an important protection from wrath.

20 creatures of one to three mana, 24 lands, those are all the exact correct numbers to me. I'd probably cut 1 ordeal, 1 elspeth, and 1 god's willing for 3 more boros charms. You could use some more dual lands but I'm sure you knew that. I'd probably slant the mana base white heavy if I were you but you need more duals to think about that.

Deck seems quite playable to me and pretty approachable for a less experienced player. This deck is very formulaic. Ideally it's:
24 lands
10 1mana creatures
6 2mana creatures
4 3mana creatures
10 buffs (1-2 mana)
4 removal
2 4 or 5 mana stall busters

Spice as needed for format ;)
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.

User avatar
SirBryghtside
Posts: 909
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:42 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby SirBryghtside » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:06 pm UTC

2 out of my seven rares so far have been Thoughtseizes, and one of those was shiny. I'm happy :D
Spambot5546 wrote:Well...who used it? I'd sleep next to Felicia Day's used bacon.

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:41 am UTC

I've found that Akroan Hoplites are not nearly as good as Wojek Halberdiers. They have the possibility to swing for massive damage if you are already wining, but they are horrible on defense. The Halberdiers can also get first strike, which is quite relevant against opposing Ash Zealots, Reckoners and Fiendslayers. Also anything that has 3 toughness and 2 or more power. The Hoplites require you to already be in position to attack with dudes, and too often he's all by himself, or stuck on the block doing nothing.

While Elspeth is slow, she is also only a one of. You never want her in your opening hand, but she can win the game single handedly, I'm running a greedier deck than VZ, and have never regretted it, though I'm running more life gain, which lets me last long enough against harsher aggro than mine to get my bombs out and win. Assemble is instantly boarded out against aggro though, as it spends a turn doing nothing, which can be lethal.

I'd also stuff the Archangel into mainboard, as it's really good, and that fourth coordinated assault is going not nearly as handy as a win condition late game.

Also run every Boros charm that you can get away with. It's nothing but good stuff for you. Give Anax and Cymede Double Strike. Laugh at the dismay of your opponents when the realize that your entire board now has trample, and Anax and Cymede are hitting for 8 all by themselves.

Edit: This is what I'm currently running. Turn two and turn four/five are the big ones, but curving out on one two and three is usually a blow out by turn four.
23111

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:56 am UTC

Thanks for the suggestions everyone; I'll have a hunt around and see what i can get my hands on.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5389
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:25 pm UTC

VectorZero wrote:Thanks for the suggestions everyone; I'll have a hunt around and see what i can get my hands on.

It's really not a bad deck. If you're just getting started and have limited resources, that's even more impressive. Pat yourself on the back. I like it a lot better than Azrael001's brew, for example. Speed is key in these decks and that happens by keeping casting costs down.
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:19 am UTC

Found my Boros Charms :) Now it's just tinkering with the mix.

Az, do you find the guild gate and scry lands a problem entering tapped and hence delaying you a turn? At this stage I can't justify buying the shock lands, but maybe in the future. Also, how often do you find yourself siding in the pithing needle and rest in peace? I've seen those in a few Boros aggro decks.

Anyway, I have a mid week competition tomorrow night, will see how I go.

mosc wrote:If you're just getting started and have limited resources, that's even more impressive.
Oh, I totally lucked out. I bought a M14 fat pack before the theros draft just to familiarise myself with things, get some lands and pulled an Archangel, Invincibility, a Mutavault and a Primeval Bounty from my 9 packs, then 2 mythics from the 5 packs in my prerelease pack. My theros box went well too. Just have to fill the gaps with purchasing stuff from the RtR block since i have none.

Akroan Hoplite v Wojak Halberdiers: 1/2, +X/0 for X attacking creatures when attacking v 3/2, battalion: first strike. Wojak is better at defence, they're equal with 2 attackers, 3 attackers is 4/2 v 3/2 with first strike, 4 attackers strongly favors Hoplites but would likely be game over regardless. Hoplites buff better with Coordinated Assault. Hmm. I picked up a playset for $1, so I'll have a play around with that.

Also tossing up Akroan Crusader v Favored Hoplite for my 1-drops.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:31 pm UTC

I haven't actually played against anyone that Pithing Needle would be good against since putting it in (and I haven't gotten around to getting the amount I need for them to be relevant) but the needle's purpose is to hinder super-friends decks or decks with Aetherling as their only win condition. I think that junk reanimator (Whip and Rescue from the Underworld are pretty good) is going to come back, and I'd rather have Rest in Peace to deal with it before Ashen Rider exiles all of my things.

As for shock lands, trade for them, they are worth that much for a reason. I run all of the tap lands because I'm running a lot of early drops that need either 2 white or 2 red, and getting colour screwed sucks, and losing a turn is usually less bad than losing multiple turns. Half the reason I'm running only the 4 one drops is because I've got so many tap lands, and I can usually play one of either the guildgate or the temple on turn one, and then a shock or basic on turn two and start casting stuff. Turn three is another two drop and a tap land, unless I get lucky with basics.

I'd go with Favored Hoplite over the Akroan Crusader, as the Hoplite is much less fragile, and the +1/+1 counters will probably be more relevant than a token or two, especially because the Heroic trigger protects the Hoplite from damage while also making it bigger. An extra token won't kill a problematic blocker, but a +1/+1 counter might.

I should note that I've been calling my deck an aggro deck, it's much closer to a midrange deck.
23111

User avatar
EdgarJPublius
Official Propagandi.... Nifty Poster Guy
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: where the wind takes me

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:55 am UTC

Yea, I've played a bit more against the Esper decks and their mana is a lot rougher than I thought. I know I saw many of the Mono-U decks keep one land hands and get punished for it during the PT, but it's less obvious when an Esper deck get's stuck on two colors or with only one Blue/White land when they want to be able to counter stuff or drop a Verdict.


Still, the Mono-U decks are extremely vulnerable to The Rock and probably to R/G decks too that have lots of removal and ways to deal with the Bident to keep the devotion down.

Actually, the toughest Devotion deck I've faced with my B/G Rock deck has been Mono-Black with Gray Merchant. I may have a marginal advantage post-board when I don't have Doom Blades and Lifebane Zombies clogging up my hand, but there are a lot of really powerful black Devotion Enablers and Gray Merchant's ETB effect can do some serious damage. Erebos also makes it difficult to stabilize since I can't gain life off of my Whips or Scavenging Oozes.



Played around some with my new Damia, Sage of Stone EDH deck. It draws a lot of cards, so sometimes it just wins by playing a turn 5 Psychosis Crawler and protecting it. It also has Rite of Replication and Progenitor Mimic for hilarious creature-duplicating shenanigans like having an endless stream of Predator Oozes or winning with Biovisionary duplicates.

Still some issues to work on though. In the late-game it can degenerate into a sort of soft-lock with Eternal Witness/Snapcaster Mage that usually ends in a win, but can drag the game out too long. It's pretty much only possible because no one in the League plays any kind of graveyard hate though. I think I need to find some way to sneak Relics of Progenitus into everyone elses decks to keep me in check.

EDIT:
Additional Damia, Sage of Stone related thoughts:

Seedborn Muse/Prophet of Kruphix + Storage Lands + Vorel of the Hull Clade is broken.

Interesting anti-synergy with Damia, Sage of Stone: Maralen of the Mornsong.

I wasn't playing Maralen myself, but someone else was, completely preventing me from drawing cards with Damia in play. Luckily, they never over-lapped in play for very long.
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:38 pm UTC

Ok, so I just got back from a 12 player swiss standard, went 1-3 with the deck I linked before, but took the first game each match I lost. First was Orzhov with ghost council, blood baron, the Jedi and lots of doom blades, second was a Maze's End that was able to control me long enough to win, third was a Selesnya deck with Voice of Resurgence and Experiment One. The last, which I won against another newb, was some W-G lifegain deck, who managed to get out a 17/17 voracious worm, alongside Heliod and a hopeful eidolon gaining 5 life each turn with an ordeal, invincibility and divine favour, the turn after my Archangel hit followed by me topdecking Assemble the Legion - but neither of us had any removal and he couldn't block my angel. So I chumped his heavy hitters with the Legion and gradually took him down with the angel - I ended on 72 life. Disgraceful for both of us, really :P Second game was a 1-2-3 on curve win for me.

Each game I won went according to plan with a quick win. Several games I drew too much land (6 in a row once) and not enough for others (0/7 mulled to 1/6 mulled to 1/5), and another I had 4 plains and only red cards in hand. Scry seemed to help, Phalanx leader was excellent, Boros charm was amazing.

Anyway, had fun, got some scry lands, will try again.

An adjacent game I overheard someone coming back from near defeat with a superfriends deck: ultimated Ral Zarek for 4 turns, topdecked Elspeth (then Jace FWIW, but the 9 3/3 flyers was enough).
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Snark
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Snark » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:11 pm UTC

Just registered for my first Booster Draft. This will be my first IRL game of Magic. Any last minute tips are appreciated. I've practiced drafting and deckbuilding online a crapton of times, so I think I'm good to go in that regard.
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


Avatar by Matt

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:02 am UTC

I got to play 2 rounds of the Hydra deck, a 2-man 3-header and a 4-man 5-header. Both times we won on turn 3, with only a single extra head being added from a total of 22 hydra deck cards revealed. Lesson: shuffle well!
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:39 am UTC

Woo, just crushed Game Day for the first time. Really enjoying this deck. And once the store gets the promos and prizes that are apparently stuck in the mail or something, I'll be enjoying this playmat.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

User avatar
Plasma Man
Posts: 2035
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:27 am UTC
Location: Northampton, Northampton, Northampton middle England.

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Plasma Man » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

Whereas today I didn't make the top 8, so no prizes for me. I'm still pretty happy - my deck worked a lot better than last Friday, and I had some good, close-fought matches. The only trouble is that I'm starting to wonder if the philosophy of my deck is fundamentally flawed. Sure, getting my Bident of Thassas and attacking to draw more is fun, but if I'm able to consistently get damage through with my attackers, why do I need card advantage too? It seems it's just a winmore card.
I'm starting to think I may be better off rebuilding the deck, still working round the Bident of Thassa, but going more control. It could be a better use of the Bident to use the activated ability and make my opponents attack into some Wall of Frosts, or a Celestial Flare or Divine Verdict. We'll see - I might try making a red-white Akroan aggro deck first, there were a couple of good versions of those around today.
Please note that despite the lovely avatar Sungura gave me, I am not a medical doctor.

Possibly my proudest moment on the fora.

Ralith The Third
Don't Ask About His Nephews
Posts: 782
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:21 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:40 am UTC

So I built a mill deck and played it at FNM. It was... interesting.

Most decks are a bit too fast. I was almost pure mill, though I've changed it to give me some more control over what they've got on the field. I pulled some things I thought might be useful (tome scour, for example) to add in things like Hero's Downfall and Doom Blade.

Afraid I don't have the deck entered yet, but the highlights - 4 Mind Grind, 3 Consuming Aberration, 3 Mirko Vosk, 4 Destroy The Evidence, 4 Balustrade Spy (which I may pull for some Walls of some sort) and some Duress/Thoughtseize/etc.

May throw in a Desecration Demon or two... the damn things are ridiculous, and the only reason I didn't place.

Of course, I also forgot the proc on Consuming Aberration in one match and got pacified and lost that way, when it should have been ground into the dust (or at least my opponent's graveyard)
Omni.

User avatar
EdgarJPublius
Official Propagandi.... Nifty Poster Guy
Posts: 3642
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: where the wind takes me

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:29 am UTC

Bleh, just cut up a huge rant about the game store that's right around the corner from me, and which I used to play at regularly, but which has apparently fired all of their competent staff so anytime I attend a tournament (like the recent Game Day) it turns into a huge fiasco.

I really wish I could play there more often because it is super convenient to me, but there's no judge at any of their events anymore, and they rotate staff so the one employee who actually knows how to use the tournament results software no longer works during tournaments, even during major events like Game-day. I've now been to two consecutive game-days at this store where someone completely new to the software was being taught how to use it by someone who'd used it maybe once or twice before while the tournament was actually ongoing. Results were predictably mis-entered both times and bafflingly, both times the TO refused to re-pair when this was pointed out well before anyone was seated for their match.

Also, pretty much every time I go there for FNM, I end up paired Round 1 (and sometimes round 2 as well) against some kid with a beefed up draft deck or starter pack or something who I basically have to teach the rules to.

Anyway, despite general bungling by the staff, I managed to top 8 the game-day tournament, but got knocked out by one of the better Esper decks I've seen in the new Standard. I had actually beaten them 2-1 in round 2, but they had apparently figured out a better sideboard plan against me, and because I'm still in a bit of a bad mood from the staff's bungling (among other things, not otherwise relevant to this discussion) I'll go ahead and blame my starting hands, mana-clumping and such as well.

I really wanted that playmat too.

The store also didn't have their full allocation of Theros packs or something eaither, so they were offering prize-support as non-theros packs OR credit towards purchasing singles (this store is notoriously stingy with credit for singles, you can't even trade in cards for credit, only directly towards a singles purchase at the time you trade your cards in) I thought about getting some RTR packs, but ended up getting a Tamiyo and a few other things. The price on Tamiyo was a bit steep considering I know for a fact it's been sitting in their display since well before rotation, but whatever, I have a soft-spot for the Moon Sage and have been thinking about sticking her into an EDH deck.

Anyway, /rant. There was also commander league beforehand that was fun. Damia continues to rock faces and draw absurd numbers of cards. There was one point I was so deep in my deck I was able to main-phase activate Soothsaying to scry my entire remaining library, and still had enough mana left over to cast Snapcaster, flashback Urban Evolution to draw the Rite of Replication I scryed to the top (from the very bottom, just above some creatures that had been Terminus-ed earlier), which I kicked targeting a Biovisionary for the win.

I find that very few creatures aren't in some way hilarious when copied 5 times. Biovisionary is probably one of the exceptions, but I had to include it since my usual Commander league works on an Achievement system and I get extra points every-time I win a game via an effect/ability that says 'win the game'

I also included Pack Rats to balance it out though. Pack Rats get's bonus hilarity points for the interaction with Progenitor Mimic.

The best match though was against a deck that focused on a lot of discard effects and punishing opponents for being Hellbent. It is incredibly difficult to get Damia hellbent. That match also get's extra hilarity points for an Ob Nixilis, the Fallen duel between an opponent who cast it and me who cloned it. With into the Wilds (plus an active Soothsaying for insurance), Urban Evolution, Crop Rotation, Ghost Quartering my own land, then Regrowth-ing Ghost Quarter so I could blow up my own land again and some other shenanigans I forget, I managed to trigger that landfall six+ times in a single turn. Unfortunately, my Psychosis Crawler got exiled early on, but I managed to win that game by A.) Drawing an unreasonable number of cards off Damia plus B.) Kicking Rite of Replication on Cryptghast. Then C.) extorting a whole bunch of spells.

It was fun playing EDH with some new people and against some new decks/commanders. Some of them even played Graveyard hate like Leyline of the Void and Relic of Progenitus so I got to see how my deck performed without it's typical graveyard shenanigans (pretty well, actually. though one of those games was the discard/hellbent deck starting with Leyline in play and never getting removed, but against that deck Damia just draws such an unreasonable number of cards it didn't even matter, I think I won via Psychosis Crawler.)
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

User avatar
Lawrencelot
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:10 am UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:03 pm UTC

Hey guys, I just started playing MTG after I got about 500 cards from someone. I noticed some of the cards are very old, since they contain abilities that are not used anymore (I thought horsemanship was one of them). Can these old cards still be used in tournaments and stuff, or do I need the newest cards?

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:32 pm UTC

It depends on the tournament format. The most common constructed format, especially at the entry level, is Standard, which is just sets from approximately the last two years (specifically, the current and previous blocks). So, currently, the Standard format includes the cards in the sets Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze, Magic 2014 and Theros. Older cards are still usable only if they've been reprinted in the newer sets... so, for instance, if you have an old Annul from Urza's Saga, you'd still be able to play it, as that card was reprinted in Theros.

For other formats, there is Modern, which allows any cards since 8th Edition (since July 2003, also recognisable as the introduction of the newer card frame), except for a sizeable ban list. And then there's the two eternal formats, Legacy and Vintage, which allow cards from the full history of Magic (the difference between the two is in the motivations behind their respective banned lists - Legacy will ban a card for being too ridiculously powerful, while Vintage will only ban a card for just straght-up not working in the current ruleset, or for being Shahrazad, because fuck Shahrazad).

All of this only applies to formal tournament Magic, though. For casual magic, usually anything goes, depending on your play-group... for most play-groups, worrying about formats is just going to waste time that could be spent actually playing the game. Most casual-by-design formats (eg Commander) are eternal.

Of course, all of this is specific to Constructed formats, which are the ones where you build a deck out of the cards you own, and bring it to the game. The other option is Limited formats, where you have to build a deck on the fly out of a restricted pool of cards you get at the time... the two primary formats of that being Sealed Deck, where you just get a number of boosters (usually 6), open them, and try to build a deck from the contents, and Booster Draft, where you each open a booster, choose one card, and pass the rest to the person sitting next to you... you're then passed another booster with one card taken out and take another card, and so on. After repeating this for 3 boosters, you're left with a pile of cards to build your deck from. These formats can be a bit more challenging than constructed with a pre-built deck from a list downloaded off the Internet, but it's also a more level playing ground in that you can't get ahead by just buying powerful cards... no matter how big or expensive your collection is, the only things that matter are the randomness of what's in the pool, and the skill of the players.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

ForOhForError
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:54 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby ForOhForError » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

I've challenged myself to build an esper reanimator deck that's legal in standard, here's what I've come up with:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/esper-re ... 4-10-13-1/

Basically, it discards the bombs with the Emissary, sacrifices either Omenspeaker or Necromancer to Rescue, bringing in some nice bonuses. Thasa's in there for scry and giving unblockable, and the rest is pretty much for tempo.

What do you guys think?

User avatar
Telchar
That's Admiral 'The Hulk' Ackbar, to you sir
Posts: 1937
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:06 pm UTC
Location: Cynicistia

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:39 am UTC

It 404d for me, but unless you are turning her into a creature, Thasa isn't worth the scry 1.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

User avatar
Lawrencelot
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:10 am UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Lawrencelot » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:03 am UTC

Thanks for the info phlip! I was wondering what those four words meant, so now I know they're formats

User avatar
WibblyWobbly
Can't Get No
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:03 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby WibblyWobbly » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:23 pm UTC

Telchar wrote:It 404d for me, but unless you are turning her into a creature, Thasa isn't worth the scry 1.

Just noticed the user name of the poster you're referring to.

Often find myself wanting to get back into M:tG, but I was always super-duper-casual, so I always kind of feel like I'd be pissing people off if I did.

User avatar
Frimble
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:57 pm UTC
Location: UK

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Frimble » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:53 pm UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:
Telchar wrote:It 404d for me, but unless you are turning her into a creature, Thasa isn't worth the scry 1.

Just noticed the user name of the poster you're referring to.

Often find myself wanting to get back into M:tG, but I was always super-duper-casual, so I always kind of feel like I'd be pissing people off if I did.

Play Commander then. No-one minds casual in commander.
"Absolute precision buys the freedom to dream meaningfully." - Donal O' Shea: The Poincaré Conjecture.
"We need a reality check here. Roll a D20." - Algernon the Radish
"Should I marry W? Not unless she tells me what the other letters in her name are" Woody Allen.

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:30 pm UTC

phlip wrote:for being Shahrazad, because fuck Shahrazad

:shock: what were they thinking?

Maybe if you were playing the chairman's game.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Plasma Man
Posts: 2035
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:27 am UTC
Location: Northampton, Northampton, Northampton middle England.

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Plasma Man » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:17 pm UTC

Had a good draft today. I only won one game, but it was all close - I went 1-2, 1-2, 2-1. That was enough to win me a booster, which contained a Thoughtsieze and a foil Fabled Hero.

I think the Fabled Hero means that I'll definitely be building a red / white heroic beatdown / aggro deck. I had a terrible time with my blue / green Bident of Thassa and Horizon Chimera deck at FNM. Literally half of my opponents were playing planeswalker control decks, and I still don't know how I'm going to deal with them. They mostly seemed to be Ashiok + Jace, which makes things really hard. Ashiok can gain loyalty so quickly it's hard enough to take them down, but when Jace comes along on the next turn and starts making my attackers weaker, that makes it nigh-on impossible. Of course, to add to the trouble is that a deck that's running blue and black has access to lots of removal and counterspells, so often you can't get to do anything. Does anyone have any good ideas how to deal with these kind of decks? (Apart from flipping the table - I can work that one out for myself!). I'm hoping that this red / white idea might be fast enough to deal with them before they can lock down the game, but I'm not sure that'll be enough.

Edited to add the last sentence in the above paragraph, and to say: Just to show I'm not bitching about everything, my last game on Friday was really good. I managed to get my Thassa, God of the Sea out, while my opponent had an Erebos, God of the Dead. It turned into an epic battle of the gods, with each one getting de-powered by having the things giving it devotion removed, then being woken up again. It really felt like it could have been a myth that we were playing out.
Please note that despite the lovely avatar Sungura gave me, I am not a medical doctor.

Possibly my proudest moment on the fora.

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:47 am UTC

Better performance this time, although a more casual crowd. 2-1 standard with my Akros deck, and the game I lost was really due to shockingly loose play on my part. I don't have the discipline for things like combat before casting enchantments/creatures. I missed an opportunity to deal fatal damage to my opponent because I was focused on hammering through with my dudes. Lesson learned.

I'm thinking of making a second standard deck. I'd like to make a Gary deck; I've got a playset of Gary, Return from the Underworld, 3x Agent of the Fates, 2x abhorrent overlord and a thoughtseize. Also an Ashiok, along with nearly a playset of pretty much all commons/uncommons in Theros. What do you all think about monoblack devotion v orzhov v dimir in the Theros environment?
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3408
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:53 pm UTC

VectorZero wrote:
phlip wrote:for being Shahrazad, because fuck Shahrazad

:shock: what were they thinking?

Maybe if you were playing the chairman's game.


The problem with Shahrazad is that it takes too long to resolve - either you stall out the game (particularly once you start nesting and/or recurring them), or round time limits get massively extended.

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:22 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:I'm thinking of making a second standard deck. I'd like to make a Gary deck; I've got a playset of Gary, Return from the Underworld, 3x Agent of the Fates, 2x abhorrent overlord and a thoughtseize. Also an Ashiok, along with nearly a playset of pretty much all commons/uncommons in Theros. What do you all think about monoblack devotion v orzhov v dimir in the Theros environment?


The guy who won standard today was running a Black splash blue devotion deck. Blue was splashed for 2 Ashiok and Far//Away. Along with the standard Mono-black nastiness of the whip, Gary, underworld connections and Desecration Demon. Eberos ruined my day (and is boarded in for the mirror) as it shuts down life gain which is a large part of my strategy.

I also played against an interesting Red splash green devotion deck, interesting in that it ran all kinds of things that I've never seen in standard, Rubblebelt Raiders and Scourge of Valkas primarily. Each give three devotion, and along with the Hammer of Purphoros and Boros Reckoner, the Shrine of Nykthos was able to produce ungodly amounts of mana much too quickly. With haste the Raiders are significantly better.
23111

User avatar
Snark
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Snark » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:35 am UTC

Which card is Gary?
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


Avatar by Matt

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:37 am UTC

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

User avatar
Snark
Posts: 425
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:22 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Snark » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:47 am UTC

I thought maybe that was it, but Google didn't clue me in. Who makes up these nicknames?
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


Avatar by Matt

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7551
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:00 am UTC

I think "Gary" was thought up by a bunch of different people... seems like the sort of thing that would have convergence of ideas. I've seen it in a lot of places. Personally I picked it up from Graham of LoadingReadyRun, who, being Canadian, is used to the Commonwealth "grey" spelling... so when he saw "Gray" on the card, he totally read it as "Gary" at first, and it wasn't until a later reading that he saw it differently.

Other names include Ray, of Dissolution, from Marshall Sutcliffe, no relation of Ray Kashair, also from LRR.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

User avatar
VectorZero
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:22 am UTC
Location: Kensington

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby VectorZero » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:13 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:The guy who won standard today was running a Black splash blue devotion deck. Blue was splashed for 2 Ashiok and Far//Away. Along with the standard Mono-black nastiness of the whip, Gary, underworld connections and Desecration Demon. Eberos ruined my day (and is boarded in for the mirror) as it shuts down life gain which is a large part of my strategy.

Ooh. Nice.

What do you think about this? Don't worry about the numbers, just spitballing an idea for now. Idea is to either keep creatures tapped down or sacrificed and win with repeatedly chipping away for small amounts. Ashiok to bring in an opponents bomb. Maybe add AEtherling.
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Devour Flesh is good, especially paired with Eberos. Nightveil Specter has gone up in price but gives three devotion to either blue or black depending on which god you want to run. It also steals your opponents things, like a mini Ashiok.
23111

User avatar
raudorn
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 am UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby raudorn » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

So I just got my Magic collection to my current residence and found myself a meetup of players. Most of my cards are from the pre-modern era with the rest being scattered up to ninth edition. I played my two decks against different decks, from vintage to standard format, in 3- and 4-player deathmatches. While it was certainly fun, I didn't fare so well and only once got close to winning.
My primary is an Elf-deck that's entirely build on exponential power gain, but suffers from fragile-elf-syndrome and I-can't-counter-or-destroy-anything-but-creatures-syndrome. The other one is a speedy artefact deck, that's still missing a lot of cards to be effective. It's based on artefact affinity and artefact based effects to play as many artefacts as fast as possible. Among the more useful ones, the cheap and useless artefacts are then later sacrificed to put peristent +1/+1 counters on the more effective creatures. That is, in theory. Like I said, it misses a lot of cards.

After those matches I went out to buy some new cards in a rush of excitement. Except that, the new cards don't really work all that well with those I have. There are some synergies between both pool of cards, like Vampires, but despite having around a thousand cards I don't think I could put together a deck as 'powerful' as my primary. Even the pre-constructed deck I bought was just a collection of cards of the same two colors. There was no theme, no combos, no synergies and no strategy I could see. Well, it was priced the same as an equal amount of boosters, so maybe that's why.
Anyway, I don't think I want to play Magic bad enough to buy hundreds of euros worth of new cards to build a better deck. I see hints and shadows of strong and powerful decks in my card base, but not one of them is enough to build a full deck and buying specific cards seems even less affordable.

Edit: Apparantely I was using outdated price estimates, because some of the cards I'd like appear to be cheaper than I imagined. I might just be able to put something decent together under 50€. Here's my primary.

@EdgarJPublius
I read your informative post on page 38 and found this a good reintroduction to strategic thinking in Magic. Thanks!

User avatar
Azrael001
Posts: 2385
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:15 am UTC
Location: The Land of Make Believe.
Contact:

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:26 pm UTC

You've got a very similar elf deck to what I remember from Oddessy era. It's also very close to being a legacy or modern tournament playable deck. The term for it is Elfball. You use elves to ramp into something like Fireball or Craterhoof Behemoth (the behemoth is better imo, as it's in green). The new Garruck is also very good for your kind of deck as it pulls out tonnes of elves, and can cheat out your Craterhoof. There is also this primer for budget elfball.
23111

rmsgrey
Posts: 3408
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:You've got a very similar elf deck to what I remember from Oddessy era. It's also very close to being a legacy or modern tournament playable deck. The term for it is Elfball. You use elves to ramp into something like Fireball or Craterhoof Behemoth (the behemoth is better imo, as it's in green). The new Garruck is also very good for your kind of deck as it pulls out tonnes of elves, and can cheat out your Craterhoof. There is also this primer for budget elfball.


My weapon of choice for my Onslaught-era Elf deck was Kamahl, Fist of Krosa with his arbitrarily repeatable Overrun - actually, the deck had two copies and two Overrun proper, but still - the usual problem with Mutilate or Night of Souls' Betrayal effects, but most other things roll over and die to half a dozen or more 4/4 or larger trampling creatures...


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests