Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Eomund » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:18 pm UTC

Now I don't think is legal in any tournaments (I just play casual) but Nightshade Peddler (or I suppose anything that gives deathtouch to a creature) and Goblin Sharpshooter

If I understand this right, assuming they are soulbound, you tap the Goblin Sharpshooter and target a creature to do one damage. Since it has deathtouch, the targeted creature dies. When the other creature dies, the Goblin Sharpshooter untaps so you can do again and again, until there are no more (non-hexproof/shroud) creatures under your opponents control. :shock: :twisted:

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:29 pm UTC

A while back I wondered what would happen if a spell had Deathtouch, like Puncture Blast has Wither. It took me on a really long trip through the history of Magic the Gathering, but I eventually came out with the solution :P

First, get an Ogre Slumlord. Then use Artificial Evolution on it, changing 'Rats' to 'Goblins', and throw a Tarfire at their biggest creature. Bear in mind that I actually have no idea whether this actually works, but it's a fun idea to me to give a card some random ability that makes it better.

Not as convoluted as the Mask/Meloku/Clone/Illusion combo, but still a bit strange.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:42 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:A while back I wondered what would happen if a spell had Deathtouch, like Puncture Blast has Wither. It took me on a really long trip through the history of Magic the Gathering, but I eventually came out with the solution :P

First, get an Ogre Slumlord. Then use Artificial Evolution on it, changing 'Rats' to 'Goblins', and throw a Tarfire at their biggest creature. Bear in mind that I actually have no idea whether this actually works, but it's a fun idea to me to give a card some random ability that makes it better.

Not as convoluted as the Mask/Meloku/Clone/Illusion combo, but still a bit strange.


Yeah, it gives the spell Deathtouch. It's been a while since I checked the Comp Rules, but I believe the relevant paragraph says "damage from a source with Deathtouch" - in which case your Tarfire is lethal

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:41 am UTC

This is for modern. I'm currently playing G/W hatebears, no fetches. When they are reprinted, or if I win the lottery, I plan to build one of the three; Maverick, Junk, or Naya . Goyf is right out also. Knight of the Reliquary, thrun, and voice would be in all of these decks

Naya gets me Thundermaw hellkite, bolt, and Adjani vengant

Mavrick gets me Saint Traft, meddeling mage, and perhaps V. Clique

Junk gets me bob, and better removal.

Suggestions as to which I should build toward.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:07 pm UTC

Abrupt decay and bob are hard to beat in modern.

I like hellkite a lot, it ends games to be sure. That said, it's value is overstated. It's good for putting the hammer down against much slower decks. It just doesn't have the same value against midrange decks. I don't find it splash worthy in current modern. Maybe if there were more control decks and more lingering souls out there but not against midrange creature heavy removal fests.

Meddling Mage is to me too tied to force of will and brainstorm to build around in modern. I see people do it but I miss their game 1 utility and general combo-f-u-ness that modern doesn't need to consider.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:33 pm UTC

Modern report with GW bears 2-2

Match- UW tron
Beat him game 1 with a t2 arbiter+ ghost quater, and decided the pace of the game from there.

g2 and 3, he was able to power out 6 drop elspeth and stonewall me

match 2, 3 and 4 were all splinter twin, beat 2, lost to one.
(I'm pretty sure eveyone who cares about modern knows how twin plays)

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Adacore » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:37 pm UTC

I don't really play Magic, but I watch VoDs of grand prixs and pro tours fairly often. I find it really difficult to enjoy watching modern, because so much of the meta is predicated on these specific combo decks. Standard, block constructed and limited just seem to give much more interesting back-and-forth games, rather than being 'who can put together their win combo faster' so much of the time. Maybe this is because I'm only watching top-level play where everyone has access to every card they want, though.

I'm seriously considering starting playing Magic Online. I've been playing a fair bit of Hearthstone lately, and the lack of depth there is frustrating. Magic would be much more interesting, but it would also be a lot pricier than free, is the main downside.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:38 am UTC

Coverage tends strongly to over-represent a small percentage of the deck archetypes in a format. I'm not sure why this is but it happens across formats and even across tournament organizers/coverage teams.

The effect is perhaps most prevalent in SCG Legacy Open coverage, where the casual viewer might get the impression that 90% of Legacy matches are amongst Delver, Stoneblade and Shardless. But the same thing definitely seems to happen in Modern and Standard coverage as well.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:50 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:I'm seriously considering starting playing Magic Online. I've been playing a fair bit of Hearthstone lately, and the lack of depth there is frustrating. Magic would be much more interesting, but it would also be a lot pricier than free, is the main downside.


Hearthstone is good, but the card pool is too small and unvaried. There's...mostly just one viable deck type per char. Some themes are emerging, like Pirates, that may be awesome later on, but lack the support to really make a solid deck with at the moment.

Magic does not have this issue.

Right now, the BotG event deck is particularly playable if you want to get into competitive magic. $25-30, and you're off to the races. I ain't saying it's perfect, but you can totally play it out of the box at a standard event and do solidly against decks that cost ten times as much or more.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:34 pm UTC

I have a deck that I would love some feed back on if anyone is willing.
This is meant to be a super budget(so no lilly's or goyfs and we dont need bob because you do NOT want to flip a tusk or thrun) modern big rock deck for a highschool student, that can still be used in casual play.

24 lands
4x overgrown tomb
4x treetop village
4x woodland cemetary
2x Llanowar wastes
5x forest'
5x swamp

creatures
4x birds of paradise
4x gatekeeper of malakir
4x kitchen finks
4x Vampire nighthawk
2x disciple of bolas
2x thrun
4x thragtusk


instant/sorc
3x abrupt decay
2x dismember
2x putrify
2x go for the throat
2x maelstrom pulse

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby ForOhForError » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:23 pm UTC

Seems fine, everything looks well costed. But you only have 59 cards there :/

In the middle of building a budget EDH deck around the new Teysa, sorta want to get some feedback on it:
http://www.mtgvault.com/forohforerror/d ... a-irl-edh/

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:06 am UTC

Spoiler Season once more, Kruphix looks insane for EDH, as does Sage of Hours in the right deck.
The cycle of Symetrical effect enchantments with Flash is nice too,

City of Brass get's a minor upgrade (also you can now run 8 of them in non-rotating formats if you so choose).

With Silence the Believers, Black can now just straight deal with active Gods and such, so Mono-Black Devotion probably isn't going anywhere any time soon.

New Ajani seems really meh, and his ultimate is basically a joke.

Bestow continues to impress me with how varied it can be in design. Hypnotic Siren in particular is just a really cool design.

Eidolon of the Great Revel seems like it'll be great in Modern, and likely other formats as well. White also got some new toys, in the form of a Launch the Fleet (aka my board is now Brimazes) and Godsend. I can't really think of a spot for Godsend in any current decks, but I am glad it can be Abrupt Decayed.

I wish they would spoil Pharika already, the suspense of whether it will be worth including in my deck of not is killing me.

EDIT:
I was pretty worried when Athreos was spoiled that Pharika would be terrible to balance it out, but Pharika actually seems pretty decent. I'll definitely consider it for the sideboard, but I don't think the ability is strong enough to commit mainboard slots to if I can't consistently turn on devotion. Might have to try running Underworld Connections to make Pharika work. Should be OK with finally having access to the GB scrylands so I don't have to rely as much on the scry from Read the Bones.


In EDH news:

So, I replaced Prophet of Kruphix with Birthing Pod. The swap doesn't affect my over-all line of play much because I can Green Sun for Seedborn Muse just as easily and I almost always have Alchemist Refuge Available.

When I was looking at Birthing Pod for my deck, I noticed that pretty much all of the creatures I really want to have better access too are 5 drops (Havengul Lich, Seedborn Muse, Psychosis Crawler, Acidic Slime, etc.) so I started looking at boosting the 4 drop slot in the deck so I could birthing pod into my 5 drops more consistently.

Also, since I know my Damia deck has a tendency to enter repetitive game-states where I just recycle creatures with ETB effects like Acidic Slime and Mystic Snake to lock-down the board, I paid special attention to 4 drops with ETB/LTB effects that could help me close out the game from one of those repetitive board states that would otherwise tend to draw the game out.

So, I settled on the 4-drop Splicers from New Phyrexia, so now when I start recycling creatures a whole bunch, I can also build an army of flying, regenerating Golems to help close out the game.

So far, it's worked pretty well.

While looking for Sylvan Primordial replacements, I settled on Woodfall Primus as it has a limited ability to self-recycle, fitting it into my existing gameplan better than the other options.

While considering that replacement, I remembered the trick Melira Pod decks pull with Persist Creatures, Melira and a sack outlet. Now, I haven't found a Woodfall Primus yet, but when I do, I think I'll also throw a Melira in there. As an added bonus, running Melira would mean I could use Black Sun's Zenith as a one-sided boardwipe.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:08 pm UTC

I guess if I only have 59 cards, then a phyrexian arena, garruk primal hunter, or tombstalker is the best thing to fill the spot.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun May 11, 2014 4:55 am UTC

So, I've played a bit of the new standard now.

I was initially sceptical of Master of the Feast, but having played with it now I can definitely see a lot of potential there. I don't think it's a 4-of in my GB deck, but maybe a 3-2 split with Heralds, knocking out a Scavenging Ooze (well, to the sideboard). The card draw has the potential to be very dangerous, but now that I have a set of scry-lands I feel comfortable swapping out Read the Bones for Underworld Connections which keeps up pretty well. I'll still miss Desecration Demon when it rotates out though.

Banishing Light seems to have made the most impact though. I agree with a lot of commentators that an 'O-ring' effect is a good thing for the format, and not having to run Blue to get it gives a lot more decks the option to use it.

it certainly doesn't hurt my opinion that a lot of the decks that now have access to it are White-Weenie decks I'm very strong against. Or that I run 6+ mainboard naturalize effects (Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm, Vraska sometimes) and one of my favorite things to do in Standard is to turn a Desecration Demon into a combat trick (other favorite standard things including Bestowing Herald of Torment to a Reapor of the Wilds to make a 7/8 flying, scrying, deathtouching hexproof juggernaut, and killing people with Vraska assassin tokens)


My favoritest thing is still killing people with Poison counters though, and on that note, I've made z new change to my 'Shock and Awe' RUG infect list.
Was watching a deck tech from some recent tournament, and I noticed that 'Blood', in contrast to most Fling effects, actually has the creature deal the damage, so if the creature has Infect, that damage is dealt as Poison Counters. I pretty much on the spot jammed two into my deck, and haven't looked back since.

My one concern was that they might just act like Assault Strobes 5&6, which isn't particularly exciting, especially since they don't stack particularly well. But in practice, the Bloods have enabled their fair share of wins on otherwise unwinnable boards, and have generally proven to be a powerful effect to be able to access as Infect. I haven't had the need to use it just yet, but the ability to deal damage to a target creature just adds to the power and flexibility.

And this new addition to my deck comes at a very opportune time. My favorite local game store is running weekly modern events again, and this time seems pretty committed to finding a way to make them work. which shouldn't be too hard as another local store is running a Modern 1k event this month with the promise of becoming a regular thing if it's popular enough. between that and an oncoming Modern PTQ season, shouldn't be too hard to play my favorite format for a while.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Thu May 15, 2014 7:58 am UTC

Hey, my local store is doing the same thing!.

What do you think of the modern event deck? I personally am very disappointed in the mana base, I mean, what the hell is city of brass doing in a 2 color aggressive deck?

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Sun May 18, 2014 5:29 pm UTC

spidernova wrote:Hey, my local store is doing the same thing!.

What do you think of the modern event deck? I personally am very disappointed in the mana base, I mean, what the hell is city of brass doing in a 2 color aggressive deck?


You don't have fetchlands and the decks you'd want to run CoB in are aggressive multicolor decks with limited mana-fixing options.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Fri May 23, 2014 7:38 am UTC

FT: Ability Words, like "Parley", don't have any actual rules associated with them - they're more what you'd call guidelines for how the ability they're attached to works.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Fri May 23, 2014 1:00 pm UTC

'Blood' is a pretty cool ability for infect. It's too bad that wasn't in the previous block. I would think of it more as an unblockable type effect honestly. When they have chumpers or a board position that's unfavorable, blood lets you sail on by. If you've already gotten in a hit or two, it might be enough. Giant growth + blood is 3 mana for 4 poison assuming a 1/1 infect on the board, pretty reasonable.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby ForOhForError » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:36 pm UTC

Speaking of infect, I made a modern Infect/Exalted deck in UB:
http://www.mtgvault.com/forohforerror/d ... tz-infect/

I think it's fairly solid.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:07 pm UTC

That does look pretty solid. I would probably play Ichorclaw Myr instead of Knight of Infamy, and that decision would probably make me reach for distortion strike too, along with a more blue focused mana base (drowned catacombs is a no-no). I'd also sideboard the shit out of spell snare. Repeal is also strangely effective in a lot of matchups too, something to consider for the sideboard. Phyrexian Crusader can be worth slowing down for (if you have the money for duals to swing him) out of the sideboard against decks that both have no way to deal with him OR block him that rely on red burn or white target based effects for removal.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:45 pm UTC

It seems like you get wrecked by abrupt decay. I would've said this wasn't an issue several months ago because of Jund being a much smaller percentage of the meta but because twin is winning right now more decks are starting to run abrupt decay, like vanilla pod or lsv's new angel pod. Being on the draw against removal heavy decks also seems suboptimal since your only answer to removal is SP/ML. Do you often kill your opponents by turn 4 or 5 where they could feasibly pay for the mana leak?

The reason infect runs green in modern is for hexproof via vines of the vastwood and for more consistent turn 3/4 kills. If you aren't using green, great, but you need to ask yourself if what you're giving up in green is worth what you are getting by playing just U/b.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:20 pm UTC

Huh? Vines of the Vastwood didn't make my infect deck. Green is primarily Glistener Elf, don't kid yourself.

Infect gets around removal by casting additional infect creatures (which is why I recommended ichorclaw rather than another exalted buff. Also, your touted abrupt decay doesn't touch infect's real weapon of choice: Inkmoth Nexus.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:06 pm UTC

spidernova wrote:Hey, my local store is doing the same thing!.

What do you think of the modern event deck? I personally am very disappointed in the mana base, I mean, what the hell is city of brass doing in a 2 color aggressive deck?


My local playerbase seems wildly negative on them, and I've sold...exactly one, which is quite unusual. I haven't had time to look at the breakdown yet and analyze it, but it may simply be a case of everyone who plays modern locally already having the cards.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:46 am UTC

New core set, lots of interesting stuff, special guest designed cards, a new cycle of powerful six-mana creatures, even more Slivers etc.


New Nissa seems to have shot up in price a lot. I think it has a chance to stick too, she kind of fills some gaps I've been feeling in current mid-range builds.

New multi-color Garruk has lots of sweet abilities, but is a bit of a tall order at 7 mana. I may try him in a 1/2 split with Nissa, but I think two mana less for Vraska is the better call while she's still in the format.

Return of Pain-lands is puzzling. Sources in Wizards have said that they don't want to split up mana-fixing options any more, so only printing the five enemy combinations is a bit odd, probably indicates that we'll get the rest in Khans ala the M10/Innistrad checklands.

Also, I believe sources in Wizards have said that they want to avoid reprinting staple cards in core-sets that that reference specific planes, and especially Dominaria. IIRC this was most recently the justification for Elvish Mystic vs. Llanowar Elves. Again, the painland reprints flies in the face of this supposed protocol.


Hornet's Nest seems sweet, At the pre-release I saw a nice synergy with Chandra, pay 1 life: make a flying deathstriking hornet. Even without playing red for the optional 'burn my own creature to make more creatures' mode, it does a very good job clogging up the board against ground-pounders, and you can still get the bonus mode with Setessan Tactics and any other good Fight effects that come out.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:15 pm UTC

So, how's everyone's experience with M15 so far? So far I've done two FNM drafts, and crushed them both... with essentially the same UR tempo deck. Basically, annoy your opponent to death with bounce and removal, ensuring they never have any blockers for your early creatures. Both drafts I've crushed with that deck, and both drafts the final was a mirror match against someone else with that deck.

I'm hoping that this is just new-format variance, and we're not going to end up with a format where there's just one really good archetype that everyone jumps in to... so your choices are essentially between fighting over the good deck with half the table, or jumping into one of the lesser decks and hoping you're the only person who wants it... because that would kinda suck.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:02 pm UTC

I've seen a good distribution in drafted decks at my shop, with player skill seeming much more relevant than color. Red does seem better for drafting than usual, though.

I've definitely seen that pattern before though. Drafting 3xTheros(or even 2xTheros, 1BotG), UG was very, very strong.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:55 pm UTC

I've done three drafts now, winning two and placing highly in the third.

The first I drafted a Black-Red aggro deck with double Generator Servant, Carrion Crow, Borderland Marauder and Typhoid Rats, plus a bunch of other 2-3 drops with 2-3 power and all the kill spells I could grab.

it worked very well. Generator servant is extremely powerful if you have enough cheap 3-power attackers. Pretty much every game I was swinging for 6 damage on turn three and most decks just couldn't handle that.

If you want to get into this deck, I would suggest picking the black flyers (Carrion Crow, Necrogen Scudder and Shadowcloak Vampire) pretty highly as well. Otherwise, the convoke decks can clog the ground pretty quickly, and the Blue tempo decks have some really good flyers of their own plus bounce to slow down your early attacks.

Second draft I was Black-Blue, splashing White for Ajani Steadfast and a couple other things. This was a more tempo-y deck, with lots of bounce and flyers, plus a Caustic Tar which closed out a few difficult games and an Aetherspouts that blew out my final opponent. Amulet of Avarice was pretty nice as well. I had enough kill/bounce spells to clear the board for the extra damage, or to just steal the Amulet back if I ever lost it. Other than that, I don't remember any real stand-out cards from this deck. Just a bunch of flyers and kill/bounce spells. Illusory angel was nice with all my 2/3 drops.

Both of these drafts I started in different colors (Red/Green for the first one, White/Blue for the second) and noticed black opened up a lot about mid-way through pack 2. In the first draft in particular I was solidly RG when about fourth or fifth pick I grabbed an Ulcerate over a Lightning Strike (because I wanted ulcerate for Standard and have traditionally had a hard time collecting black uncommon removal outside of draft) and immediately after that I was rolling in sweet black spells.

In the second draft, I tried to force white since I first picked Ajani, but it got shut off hard early on in pack two and so I just grabbed a Carrion Crow and went from there, Black was pretty open after that.

In the third draft, I was super deep in red (3x Generator Servants, 3x Foundry Street Denizens, 2x red Paragon) but kept seeing sweet black cards (Ulcerate, Flesh to Dust, Xathrid Slyblade) get passed to me, so I picked those, and even though Black never really opened up (turned out later the guy to my right was also in black) I got a decent support color out of it though. Red was wide open however, I got 2 Foundry Street Denizens last and second to last pick (I don't really pick those highly in this deck vs. cards like Borderland Marauder and Goblin Roughrider) Also got a moderately-late Goblin Kaboomist which worked out well, I typically got about 3 mines before he blew himself up and the mines worked well to deter or blow-up attacks. One memorable game I was able to finish off a Scuttling Doom Engine with mines.
I also grabbed Rogues Gloves and Sacred Armory which both worked very well in this deck. I didn't have quite as much removal as I would have liked to force through Rogues Gloves attacks, but I ended up drawing a decent number of cards off it. And Sacred Armory worked pretty well too, forcing through extra damage and pumping up one and two power creatures to block Scuttling Doom Engines or just trade up with smaller attackers.

Xathrid Slyblade was a card I wasn't quite sure how to evaluate, but playing with it, I'm definitely sold. Definitely better on offense than defense, where you can activate her ability and still dodge sorcery speed removal, but she also held off more than a few attacks just by threatening to stab any attackers.

I had one game in my final match where I just had Slyblade, Armory and Gloves, and I won because my opponent didn't have any instant speed removal.


My draft instincts pretty much always lead me to draft fast aggro-y or tempo-y decks, and this set is the first in a while where I feel like that draft style is rewarded. I'm enjoying it a lot.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

I haven't done any drafts, but White with Red or Black has served me well in sealed. I'm a fan of the Slyblade, and might try to make it work in Standard at some point. Current plan is to try out Boros Burn with a playset of Altac Bloodseeker and Stoke the Flames. And/Or WW soldiers with Obelisk of Urd.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:44 pm UTC

Onslaught fetches are back. Will reduce the price on all fetch lands. I wouldn't buy the blues for more than 10 dollars, and the others for a few less. Don't buy into the sealed product hype as they will keep printing this product for more than a year.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:20 am UTC

I think the new two-set block structure is pretty good too. Keeping blocks from over-staying their welcome, more variety in standard with three blocks of mechanics to draw from, etc. And despite the awesome of M15, I'm not exactly sad to see core-sets go.

Looking forward to some BUG goodies for my Damia EDH deck, maybe even some more Gorgon tribal support.

Sultai Charm is pretty awesome, but Delve is a pretty meh mechanic to try and focus on, and Necropolis Fiend doesn't exactly inspire confidence, considering it manages to nonbo with itself.

EDIT:

Sultai just keeps getting better!

Sidisi, the Sultai Khan is a mediocre dredge enabler, so it's nice of WotC to make the decision of whether it's worth trying to play her or not by printing such an efficient hoser in the very same cycle with Anafeza, the Abzan Khan.

And by better of course I mean much worse, because apparently WotC hates everything I love about the game :/
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:34 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:I think the new two-set block structure is pretty good too. Keeping blocks from over-staying their welcome, more variety in standard with three blocks of mechanics to draw from, etc. And despite the awesome of M15, I'm not exactly sad to see core-sets go.

huh?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:49 pm UTC

mosc wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I think the new two-set block structure is pretty good too. Keeping blocks from over-staying their welcome, more variety in standard with three blocks of mechanics to draw from, etc. And despite the awesome of M15, I'm not exactly sad to see core-sets go.

huh?


It was recently announced that the game will be transitioning to a Large/Small/Large/Small yearly release structure with a block being a large set and the following small set, and Standard rotating each time a large set comes out. The 2015 Fall set will be the start of the first two-set block (since Shadowmoor) and the 2016 Spring set will start the new rotation with Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged (the 2015 Winter set) rotating out. That's why they announced this now - Khans is the first set to be affected, only staying in Standard for 18 months rather than 24, so they wanted people to know before they invested in it.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:14 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
mosc wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I think the new two-set block structure is pretty good too. Keeping blocks from over-staying their welcome, more variety in standard with three blocks of mechanics to draw from, etc. And despite the awesome of M15, I'm not exactly sad to see core-sets go.

huh?


It was recently announced that the game will be transitioning to a Large/Small/Large/Small yearly release structure with a block being a large set and the following small set, and Standard rotating each time a large set comes out. The 2015 Fall set will be the start of the first two-set block (since Shadowmoor) and the 2016 Spring set will start the new rotation with Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged (the 2015 Winter set) rotating out. That's why they announced this now - Khans is the first set to be affected, only staying in Standard for 18 months rather than 24, so they wanted people to know before they invested in it.


Three two set blocks vs two three set blocks mostly comes out as a wash, but I think there's a niche advantage for someone who has left magic for a while and is getting back into it. It's faster to have all the sets in standard by simply buying them as they come out(because smaller rotation window), and for those who buy backward, it's a maxium of six sets in standard(all three two set blocks) vs the present seven(two three set blocks, plus core blocks).

Well, technically, there are periods(as currently) where the present system actually has EIGHT sets in standard. That's a lot to buy into all at once, and effectively nobody does.

In general, making it somewhat more accessible for people to return after a break is probably a good thing.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:52 pm UTC

What made returning to standard easiest was relying on concepts and cards from a fairly change free main set. Mana Leak and Wrath of God could easily be incorporated into new UW control decks and the number of changes needed were small. Consistent dual lands which were never without value were another thing that lowered the barrier to entry. It's not a wash to returners, it's a continuation on the train that happened when M10 replaced 10th edition: we're in the business of selling cards not in the business of having a large player base.

The main set from 3rd to 10th contained only re-prints. They came out every two years instead of every year (4th-10th). It wasn't even intended for purchase by tournament players! That's why expansions came out more frequently and they printed chronicles trying to drive DOWN prices in the secondary market. Reprints now are limited to dealer kickbacks like those 15 card bribe editions or the extremely limited run and unashamedly higher MSRP on modern masters. Soon, you can take your decks from one block of standard and put them in the chipper when the year's out. They'll throw in a card or two a set that's relevant in modern to drive some sales there and put up a farce of a legacy tournament now and then using it more as a playtesting session for card power levels than something they value.

Older players aren't the target market. They buy cards online and play with them for decades but don't generate revenue. They're more concerned with thematic elements to drive books and spinoffs than they are returning players. The target market is young male teenagers to 20-somethings with little to no living expenses (parents) and who's limited budgets can be entirely captured on entertainment. More specifically, it's selling packs of various shapes and sizes typically on impulse. The local comic store sells it's share but bigger retailers like walmart and target carry most of the weight.

The death of the core set should be mourned as a continual push towards a time variant product with essentially a subscription fee supplying revenue on a continuous basis into the bean counters bottom lines.
Last edited by mosc on Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:14 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:01 pm UTC

mosc wrote:What made returning to standard easiest was relying on concepts and cards from a fairly change free main set. Mana Leak and Wrath of God could easily be incorporated into new UW control decks and the number of changes needed were small. Consistent dual lands which were never without value were another thing that lowered the barrier to entry.

It's not a wash to returners, it's a continuation on the train that happened when M10 replaced 10th edition: we're in the business of selling cards not in the business of having a large player base.


Apparently, entry-level product is still going to be a thing - just not also marketed to serious players as an essential part of the game...

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:55 pm UTC

oh great. Portal season 4? Where scryb sprites was overpowered so we'll make you a 1G version instead? Or we'll get natural order which is super simple/balanced and take away needlessly complicated cards like terror and shock fundamental to the color wheels. Gah.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:03 pm UTC

mosc wrote:What made returning to standard easiest was relying on concepts and cards from a fairly change free main set. Mana Leak and Wrath of God could easily be incorporated into new UW control decks and the number of changes needed were small. Consistent dual lands which were never without value were another thing that lowered the barrier to entry. It's not a wash to returners, it's a continuation on the train that happened when M10 replaced 10th edition: we're in the business of selling cards not in the business of having a large player base.


That swap happened because core set sales had tanked, and there was widespread apathy towards seeing the same old cards. The change ushered in a period of growth for MtG, and they were rewarded with a larger player base and increased sales...not just on core sets, but on everything. Theros was the most popular magic set to ever see print. Khans looks poised to crush it.

New players simply were not that into core sets. Never have been, really.

The main set from 3rd to 10th contained only re-prints. They came out every two years instead of every year (4th-10th). It wasn't even intended for purchase by tournament players! That's why expansions came out more frequently and they printed chronicles trying to drive DOWN prices in the secondary market. Reprints now are limited to dealer kickbacks like those 15 card bribe editions or the extremely limited run and unashamedly higher MSRP on modern masters. Soon, you can take your decks from one block of standard and put them in the chipper when the year's out. They'll throw in a card or two a set that's relevant in modern to drive some sales there and put up a farce of a legacy tournament now and then using it more as a playtesting session for card power levels than something they value.


There's a drop when things leave standard, true, but you're overstating it. The good cards usually take a 25% hit or so, then slowly crawl upwards in price over time as supply diminishes. Long-held magic collections retain significant value, and often rise in price. This ain't true for many hobbies.

Yeah, the getting in price ain't trivial, but the value retained is way better than most entertainment you can purchase.

Older players aren't the target market. They buy cards online and play with them for decades but don't generate revenue. They're more concerned with thematic elements to drive books and spinoffs than they are returning players. The target market is young male teenagers to 20-somethings with little to no living expenses (parents) and who's limited budgets can be entirely captured on entertainment. More specifically, it's selling packs of various shapes and sizes typically on impulse. The local comic store sells it's share but bigger retailers like walmart and target carry most of the weight.


The average Magic player is 25 yrs old, which skews a little older than you propose, and the hobby market is more important to the industry than you might expect. There's over 5,000 of us, and the number's growing. Additionally, mass market stores tend to carry a very limited selection, while the hobby stores run the tournaments, carry singles, carry the specialty product, etc. Yeah, walmart might have a high turn rate on that one item, but overall, hobby retailers are competitive with mass market on product sold.

Additionally, books, etc are almost irrelevant. The fat packs haven't had novels for ages, and they only recently brought back the comics. Financially, they are irrelevant. Returning players are huge, though.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:24 pm UTC

Fetches are nice, too bad the set seems so low power otherwise. But I'm willing to overlook a LOT for fetches that don't cost 200-400$ for a set. I'm going to bet that fetches are also printed in event decks, 20-30 dollar lands would make standard players mad as hell. Enjoy your modern prices.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:06 pm UTC

spidernova wrote:Fetches are nice, too bad the set seems so low power otherwise. But I'm willing to overlook a LOT for fetches that don't cost 200-400$ for a set. I'm going to bet that fetches are also printed in event decks, 20-30 dollar lands would make standard players mad as hell. Enjoy your modern prices.


They dialed back the speed some in Theros block, so, the low power shouldn't matter for standard as RTR block rotates out. A *lot* of standard staples are going away, the majority, I dare say, so the new set really only needs to be on par with Theros to be competitive.

And yeah, cheap fetches should make the set in demand as hell. I'm glad I bet heavily on it*. Star City's preorder price is up to $110 already, it seems probable that this'll be one of those sets that quickly goes out of stock basically everywhere after launch/climbs in price until manufacturing catches up.

*Preorders for stores, etc were generally locked in place before this was spoiled.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby spidernova » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:40 pm UTC

Unrelated to fetches, but have any of ya'll folks done any legacy? At the moment I'm putting together a maverick build, I would love to play dnt, but 4 krakas are out of the budget for a long time


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