WoWzers!

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Tomo
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Tomo » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:14 pm UTC

Sarth 3D should just drop an item which stacks with other enchants, can be applied to any piece of armor, and increases stamina by 1.

The hardcore would definitely do it every week then.
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Jebobek
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:17 pm UTC

Tomo wrote:Sarth 3D should just drop an item which stacks with other enchants, can be applied to any piece of armor, and increases stamina by 1.

The hardcore would definitely do it every week then.
Totally. And guilds would break apart because some say only the tanks should get it, some say that it doesn't matter with onle 200ish extra hp, etc.
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Chen
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:26 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Well you can't really argue the TK/BT gear trivializing ZA, because it was way ahead. And I'm going to argue that ZA was a bit too rough, but if you think its doable from Kara->ZA thats fine, I'm just saying that it was a bit too rough for the 10-man fans. Lets just say that I'm crossing my fingers for a challenging but possible 10->10.


Granted ZA came out very late too so people likely had at least SOME 25 man gear anyways. I'd suspect it wouldn't have felt as bad if it was released along with Kara and people knew it was the next step in progression. Notwithstanding your point it taken. They already have a bit of disparity in the whole 10 man, 25 man being separate paths thing. Like the fact that current 10 man Sarth 3D is pretty much undoable in only 10 man gear, yet they are removing the achievement reward for it before Ulduar comes out. This strikes me as somewhat odd considering they wanted the 10 man dungeons to be their own, valid gear "paths".

I know it sucks that you all aren't filling out on KT max gear, but thats the intended design of it. They are hoping that you are all still trying to do Naxx clears while you're braving through the new dungeon.

If they included a 25-man hard mode Naxx that gave you more KT loot at the end, lets assume half of the guilds on your server can do it. The other half that can't would not top out on KT loot before the next dungeon. So it seems like the future content would be unbalanced anyways, as long as you see gear disparity.


Well the reasoning was that the "extra" gear you get from hard modes would still be available without doing the hard mode, just less of it. There are not currently ilvl 226 items for every slot available. Its more just RNG that decides if you fill your raid out with those pieces or not. If hard mode bosses actually dropped new pieces of loot (such as Sarth 2D who has an "extra" loot table when done with 2 or more drakes up) they essentially become "required" to be in a good position come the next bunch of content.

The overall point is that titles and drakes are not sufficient motivation (or so the forums would have me believe) but a full new set of drops that are unavailable elsewhere, while motivation is detrimental to future raid balancing. Thus the suggestion I made was a more middle ground situation. I mean really if you're a hardcore guild looking to push progression you're probably running multiple Naxx's anyways just so that people can get more KT drops. Why not just make a hard mode that makes doing so more challenging IN GAME rather than being a logistical challenge (i.e., finding multiple times to run the instance).

Tomo
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Tomo » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:29 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Totally. And guilds would break apart because some say only the tanks should get it, some say that it doesn't matter with only 200ish extra hp, etc.


Quite frankly, any guild that broke apart for that reason was populated by fools anyway, and I'd be glad to see the back of them.

The quick idea makes sense though, you could even make them unique (3) and class specific with relevant stats or whatever. The point is, an interesting little buff like this would increase the number of endgame guilds doing Sarth 3D.
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aaron
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:04 pm UTC

Tomo wrote:Sarth 3D should just drop an item which stacks with other enchants, can be applied to any piece of armor, and increases stamina by 1.

The hardcore would definitely do it every week then.


stam isn't that big of a raiding stat though, it should be something like expertise/ap/sp ;)

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:47 pm UTC

aaron wrote:stam isn't that big of a raiding stat though, it should be something like expertise/ap/sp ;)


Stam is easy because it still does help everyone, even though its not ideal. Having a bit of extra Hp is always nice barring fights where the raid takes no noticeable or dangerous damage (like Gluth or Patchwerk for example).

For Ulduar I suppose they could make you do all the hard mode fights every week to allow you to fight the last guy. That would certainly encounrage people to do the hard modes. But I suspect that won't be the case and instead you'll get a Sapphiron like key to open the door after you turn in all the Sigils.

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FoS
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:15 am UTC

ZA wasn't hard IMO, unless you did a Bear run.

Hands down the best Raids in BC for me remain, Vashj and Kael kills and my Bear run team.

I got a bunch of mates together and we farmed Bears until they took it away. Our team was more then 10 people so we could rotate people since some couldn't make every run.
Almost all of us got bears which was awesome, sadly my bear is on my Priest who I no longer play.
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Hentzau
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Hentzau » Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

I might see a partial point, as I think some of the other stun/interrupt pet effects might have a longer cooldown, or that might have been significantly normalised and shortened, I dunno. Stuff like Wasp Sting, Silithid Webbing. But I don't roll with any of the PvP-"¡This cheese is burning me! u r defenslas" pets. Just Intimidation and TBW for me.


I'd reccommend you consider it, seeing as how the enemy can just pewpew you not the pet. You mention silithids and wasps, but crabs with Pin are also nice. Epic 2v2 arena pyrolactate is to be had when their DPS gets hit by Pin, then Wyvern Sting, then Freezing Arrow, then Scatter Shot as their healer gets it in the shorts.

On a related but not really related note, Freezing Arrow is awesome in Nagrand Arena. As a hunter with a prot pally companion, we managed to massacre a 2v2 who hid behind a pillar by running in from their right and my shooting a trap to their left, flushing them straight into it. Hence plenty of free pewpewteimz on the guy that didn't get trapped.

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aaron
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:52 am UTC

finally got a decent patchwerk parse:

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it's sad that i can pull those numbers in a pug but i can't pull it in guild cause then i'll get my asshole raped by hatefuls

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Gelsamel
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:38 am UTC

That was the awesome thing about my DK, I could take hatefuls 100% of the time without dying as long as a tank was up.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:13 pm UTC

aaron wrote:it's sad that i can pull those numbers in a pug but i can't pull it in guild cause then i'll get my asshole raped by hatefuls


Doesn't this mean all your melee dies when doing guild runs? Or is it just the occasional hateful that gets through due to slow healing?

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aaron
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:23 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
aaron wrote:it's sad that i can pull those numbers in a pug but i can't pull it in guild cause then i'll get my asshole raped by hatefuls


Doesn't this mean all your melee dies when doing guild runs? Or is it just the occasional hateful that gets through due to slow healing?


it's not a health based mechanic anymore, it's a threat based. and our tanks blow at generating threat. hard.

edit - to answer your question, myself, a fury warrior and an enhancement shaman usually die on patchwerk all the time.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Tomo » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:42 pm UTC

aaron wrote:it's not a health based mechanic anymore, it's a threat based.


:o

When did that happen?
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aaron
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:32 pm UTC

Tomo wrote:
aaron wrote:it's not a health based mechanic anymore, it's a threat based.


:o

When did that happen?


well it's kind of health based. what he does is he looks at the top 2 people on the aggro table, then out of those he picks the one with the highest health. so if he hatefuls a tank and healing is slow, chances are i'll get the next hateful

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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:15 pm UTC

i'm digging running with a raiding guild now, getting a lot of gear upgrades. right now I've spent all I can, badgewise, so I'm saving them for some heirlooms for the day I roll an spriest. But I remember in mostly blues + a few epics I outthreated an all-epics pally tank on patch.. maybe I should transfer to your server, heh.
uhhhh fuck.

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Gelsamel
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:09 am UTC

Honestly even when I had just capped tanking gear and had pathetic threat as a tank spec I could stop people from dying on Patchwerk...
"Give up here?"
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FoS
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:24 am UTC

My TPS isn't as astronomical as I'd like but the only fight I ever have Threat issues (provided DPS actually waits before they go nuts) is on Malygos when we have overlapping sparks and even then it's not too bad provided I've made provision for it in my gear and rotations.
I'm using a Blood Sarth 3D build so it's maximum survival Talents which gimps my TPS slightly.
That being said, I am running mostly best-in-slot gear at the moment.

It also helps that our Rogues and Hunters are quick to MD/FD/Vanish/etc without me having to yell at them.

If someone is catching up to me on 2 Sparks I ask them to slack off a bit and they tend to listen.
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Chen
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:14 pm UTC

The hatefuls add threat to the top 2 (3 on 25 mans) people's threat as well. Even if your tank blows at generating threat there's almost no way melee should be overtaking them except early in the fight before many hatefuls have landed. We inevitably have people die at the start of patchwerk because of hatefuls buts thats because they always run in that little bit too early to try and max dps and get wrecked. If the first couple of hurtfuls are avoided there's not a very good threat buffer for the OTs since they are both not taking damage AND not getting the extra threat from landed hurtfuls. What can be even worse is if a one of the OTs gets hatefulled but the second OT is NOT third in threat. This then means the extra threat from the hateful gets added to some DPSers threat making it virtually impossible for the second OT to catch up in threat before the DPSer (if melee) gets killed. For 25 man you really want to wait until both OTs have taken hurtfuls before you start your dps if you're in melee range...or you can jump in the slime though that risks your first OT getting killed if healing is slow and you get high on threat early. If you're doing 25 man patch with only 1 OT then you can have issues with melee getting killed if your healers are slow as well, though if you're doing the 1 OT strategy it generally means the raid is pretty on the ball.

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Haistfu
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:01 am UTC

I wonder if your DPS realize that the meter doesnt start running until they starting doing damage...
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Jebobek
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:32 pm UTC

The DPS is probably looking at overall damage as well, which is a considerable factor. Recount has a display that shows both of these, and some folks can have a lower dps but a higher total damage.
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Hentzau
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Hentzau » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:59 pm UTC

The Darkmoon Faire is in town. On Khadgar EU I filled a Portals deck for under 200g, had Darkmoon Card : Twisting Nether within four hours of deciding to get it.

So then epic win ensues. My prot pally partner and I ( SV hunter) go into arenas. Eventually, in Lordaeron, we fight a prot pally and an arcane mage, both teams nuking the other's glass cannon. Both of us go down like sacks of bricks, so the two prot pallies are duking it out. It's fairly evenly matched, but when they hit ~20% I get back up like John Travolta's career and crit the 0-resillience pally for five figures. Cue screaming over Vent and five angry guildmates telling us to go to the other channel when we do arena, for chrissakes.

It was awesome.

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Dobblesworth
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Dobblesworth » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:12 pm UTC

10k+ on a Kill Shot, that is nice.

I'm in a bad state in WoW these days. Over the past several months the guild membership has trickled down the drain; about half of the old guard are still active members, but not even active enough to see more than 5-10 on during evening or weekend primetime. Can barely even get a heroic going, let alone Naxx 10. Would really like to move out and find a new place, as all PUG runs for Naxx require maxxed out Heroic Raid purples and for you to post a "The Undying" kill achievement to the team leader on application. I suppose a f***load of heroics are still in order. Heck I'm still sitting on the Shattered Sun pendant (70 epic) as the proc and total RAP from it is hard to supersede with WotLK drops somehow.

Though I do have the 50 Mount achievement Albino Drake, which is nice.

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zug
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby zug » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:44 pm UTC

Man, I wish we had a wow subforum so I could geek out hardcore!

I recently got into a 25 man capable guild (I was in a casual 10 man before due to my work schedule which blows donkey balls). I was geared out in pretty much the best attainable 10 man items (KT cape, 4pc t7, KT mace). But of course these still leave room for improvement compared to t7.5-level items. As I was the only resto shaman in last week's naxx I upgraded to new boots, 2pc t7.5, and a juicy new shield (the one that looks like a tauren's head :O) all in one raid.

Damn, I love this game.

Epeening aside, it's really great to be a non-cloth healer. I was a mage in t5 content back at 70, and the gear competition was yugh--locks, shadow priests, and mages all bidding on the same dps pieces, and having to roll against 2 other classes besides that on tier tokens :(. Now that spdmg was normalized for healing as well, I normally have little to no loot competition (only from a couple holy pallies), but the mages have to contend with holy/disc priests now, as well as locks and shadow priests (at least for gear without hit or mp5 explicitly on it). And mages don't want spirit on their gear but are generally forced into it to some degree :(

Thank god for NOT being deeps anymore.

Some nerd theorycrafting, I could use some advice on this. I generally find myself running out of mana on patch but that's about it. Otherwise I am not, pretty much ever, unless we lose a lot of dps in which case it will probably be a wipe anyway. I have moderate amounts of haste and mp5 and crit on my gear, while I gem with luminous monarch topaz (int/spdmg) in every red/yellow slot (and one dazzling forest emerald for my meta). For 25 mans, should I slide my gem focus away from int (which takes advantage of replenish and adds some spwr due to talents, but the mana increase doesn't really have added benefit in ANY other fights) and toward haste instead?

I can't access armory from work so I can't link directly, but my toon's name is Zug on Maelstrom if any healers want to take a peek. I believe I logged out in my pve set.
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Spacemilk
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Spacemilk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:25 pm UTC

zug wrote:Some nerd theorycrafting, I could use some advice on this. I generally find myself running out of mana on patch but that's about it. Otherwise I am not, pretty much ever, unless we lose a lot of dps in which case it will probably be a wipe anyway. I have moderate amounts of haste and mp5 and crit on my gear, while I gem with luminous monarch topaz (int/spdmg) in every red/yellow slot (and one dazzling forest emerald for my meta). For 25 mans, should I slide my gem focus away from int (which takes advantage of replenish and adds some spwr due to talents, but the mana increase doesn't really have added benefit in ANY other fights) and toward haste instead?

I can't access armory from work so I can't link directly, but my toon's name is Zug on Maelstrom if any healers want to take a peek. I believe I logged out in my pve set.


I can't access the armory from work either so I can't help you out there, and I play a holy pally and only know general stuff about shaman but here are some general rules of thumb. First, follow your talents when it comes to itemization. Pallies don't get shit from spirit compared to other classes* - our talents heavily emphasize crit and intellect for our regen and additional spellpower. If your talents emphasize int, go for it. Second, as far as haste goes, it's very nice and all, but I've found that once I learn a fight I can time heals based on boss swings, etc., and can cancel them in time in case of dodge/block/etc. So haste, while definitely a great stat that I will gladly take for free, is not something I will gem for (KEEP IN MIND I'M A HOLY PALLY, sub one second holy lights all day long, thx, but I get to say goodbye to that post-3.1), and if given a choice between a sp/crit and sp/haste item, I'm of course going to take the crit one. But I'm a holy pally =p the rules are different for me and you.

*side note: I hate how anything with spirit on it is "automatically not a pally item" even though it may have massive loads of crit, int, etc. on it. But anything with crit/int/mp5/etc. on it is automatically an item for any healing class - and yeah you guys do benefit from that stuff too, I just wish I had a shot at items that have been itemized to be good for ANY class but thanks to the addition of one little stat, I'm supposed to turn up my nose at it. SIGH. This may just be unique to groups I run with, though.

Also someone please tell me if the "+1 stam" enchant idea got taken a little too seriously, or if I'm just lacking the ability to see sarcasm in thoughtful seriousness.
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Jebobek
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:34 pm UTC

I agree that spirit vs. mana/5 issue is stupid and unnecessary. If they want to see more worth out of spirit in their game, they should eliminate mana/5 and change the spirit mechanics to help all healers. Mana/5 gear is a band-aid for bad coding, and makes ring/neck/trinket/cape healing gear less universal.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby zug » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:52 pm UTC

I will never turn away a piece of gear with mana/5 on it; with water shield up I'm around 330-350 mp5 (I forget exactly, I haven't checked that stat in a while, but I know I'm rockin over 1k int). But when I see a piece of spirit gear I immediately mouse off, as it's dead to me for all practical purposes. We have too many priests and druids and I would rather die than log out in a spirit piece anyway :x

My gear is all BIS 10 man or above now, anyway, so a moderate upgrade in spellpower or crit that's weighted down by a dead spirit budget would not be worth it on a ring/cloak.

Plus my guild uses a form of dkp combined with loot council, so I save my bids for actual upgrades.

re: mp5 is a poorly coded stat... errr, no. mp5 vs spirit is a distinctive method of stopping higher armor classes from rolling on your leather and cloth healing gear. Plus, I actually believe mp5 makes more sense. Perhaps it's budgeted inadequately at the moment, but as a stat it is way better than spirit. The 5 second rule is freaking stupid: THAT is the antiquated mana regeneration function, not mp5. With mp5 you know exactly what you're getting in an x minute fight. With spirit it's all variable depending on your tank, your fellow healers, your dps, who dies during the fight, and the encounter.

No thanks.

Plus water shield is based off mp5. Shamans with spirit? I'll lay down my totems and quit playing the day I can't chain cast chain heal.
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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:47 pm UTC

finally arms warriors are getting the ability to charge in combat, oh snap--AND the new improved-overpower is looking pretty great. we'll be more competitve again in pvp, which for some reason stopped happening in wotlk.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Mysidic » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:33 am UTC

Finally they removed curse of recklessness...Actually, past curse of agony I don't like any of the curses, but I keep them on my action bar "just in case".

And I just LOVE the nemesis talent.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:32 am UTC

Given the changes they're making to engineering tinkers in 3.1, combined with the incredible potency and necessity of the 08 tinkers in arena, I am leveling engineering on my mage. We're running Lock/Mage in 2s and I've got to say it's looking good.
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Jebobek
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:15 pm UTC

zug wrote:re: mp5 is a poorly coded stat... errr, no. mp5 vs spirit is a distinctive method of stopping higher armor classes from rolling on your leather and cloth healing gear. Plus, I actually believe mp5 makes more sense. Perhaps it's budgeted inadequately at the moment, but as a stat it is way better than spirit. The 5 second rule is freaking stupid: THAT is the antiquated mana regeneration function, not mp5. With mp5 you know exactly what you're getting in an x minute fight. With spirit it's all variable depending on your tank, your fellow healers, your dps, who dies during the fight, and the encounter.

No thanks.

Plus water shield is based off mp5. Shamans with spirit? I'll lay down my totems and quit playing the day I can't chain cast chain heal.
Well that was my point. They need to revamp spirit to kill the 5 second rule so it is just as helpful for higher armor classes. With good changes, spirit gear would work just like the shaman or pally's MP5 gear. One of the 5 stats in the game should not be helpful to only 0-10% of the members of the raid. In 10 mans, you have a much higher chance of not having holy priests or resto druids in the raid. Its a pain if you have every class in your raid but you're throwing out necks/rings/capes/trinkets because of the spirit. I'm not sure if spirit helps out shadow priests or boomkin as much.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Talith » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:55 am UTC

Any thoughts on what sort of gear a sv hunter should be wearing in 2v2 (holy pala partner) considering we're a new team at 1500 rating and I can choose from all 25 man loot (yay for good guild) and all the archavon/badge pvp pieces + all the hateful offset gear. From the few games that me and my partner have done we're finding it's pretty comfortable going when i'm in maxxed out resilience gear (hitting 750ish) and we're wonding if it might be worth me dropping some resilience for more burst damage on my part as we slowly climb the ladder.

Also because it's my first post on this thread I suppose i should introduce myself, hi guys :).

Armory link for reference

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Spacemilk » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:26 am UTC

Jebobek wrote:Its a pain if you have every class in your raid but you're throwing out necks/rings/capes/trinkets because of the spirit. I'm not sure if spirit helps out shadow priests or boomkin as much.


Actually it helps both those classes quite a lot - spriests just had a bunch of talents added in with Wrath that make spirit as much a priority as it is for holy priests. Spirit Tap is pretty OP now. :) And boomkins get 15% of their spirit as spellpower. Mages get mp5 from spirit, and I have no clue about locks. Pallies have no spirit talents, unless they're buried deep in prot which is a spec I've never tried (somehow, I think it's doubtful there are any spirit talents in prot though . . .).
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Haistfu
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:19 am UTC

Arena gear disparateness has to be the single most irritating thing I've ever encountered. EVER.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:28 am UTC

I got my Pally to 80 2 nights ago and last night I got the last few goodies to hit 540 Def, including a very lucky drop of the Red Sword.
Yay for 2 tanks.
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Haistfu
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:04 am UTC

Grats on 80!
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:40 pm UTC

Spacemilk wrote:Actually it helps both those classes quite a lot - spriests just had a bunch of talents added in with Wrath that make spirit as much a priority as it is for holy priests. Spirit Tap is pretty OP now. :) And boomkins get 15% of their spirit as spellpower. Mages get mp5 from spirit, and I have no clue about locks. Pallies have no spirit talents, unless they're buried deep in prot which is a spec I've never tried (somehow, I think it's doubtful there are any spirit talents in prot though . . .).


Locks also get spellpower from Spirit, though I am not sure what the conversion is. Its already a useful stat for all casters except Shaman and Pallies. Even now we have offset pieces (necks, cloaks etc) that have Mp5 on them and others with spirit. I don't think its that big an issue, especially considering that shaman and pallies have a near monopoly on their respective armor pieces (especially holy pallies who have NO competition for their pieces).

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zug
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby zug » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:27 pm UTC

FFB mages have no use for spirit, arcane ones do. I have long maintained that mages need 2 tier sets, one with spirit/hit on it and one with crit/hit on it.
Velifer wrote:Go to the top of a tower, drop a heavy weight and a photon, observe when they hit the ground.

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Purky
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Purky » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:25 am UTC

Slightly OT but has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/4713 ... armor.html

Is it just me or is this taking your wow addiction just that lil bit too far :)

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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:45 am UTC

so whats all your 2ndary specs for dual speccing gonna be?
uhhhh fuck.

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FoS
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:17 am UTC

DPS and Tanking for both my DK and my Pally.

My DK will most likely be Unholy DPS.
"...working as intended"
Oomkin Druid - Sylvanas EU


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