WoWzers!

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Ixtellor
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:45 pm UTC

Ret pally. I use the Titansteel mace which is 2 Handed epic 186 DPS. I want to get Edge of Ruin which is like 226 DPS, but can't ever get in a H ToC 10 man.

I thought I had enchants on everything that could be enchanted. I know I have a 10,000 honor point enchant on my shoulders. Every time I go to the AH, all the enchants are +armor though.
What enchants should I be looking out for? I never really see anything that useful at the AH.

On gems, I am fully gemed but some of them are Stam gems so I have been planning on swapping them out, only reason I have not yet is I was tinkering with the idea of going a tank build -- because people are always looking for tanks and never looking for DPS. So my gems are a mismatch.
Also I have noticed that the difference between a +20 str gem and a +12 str gem is about 200 gold, so I mostly have the latter.

The reason I am still wearing all PvP gear with 2 exceptions, is because I have never found better. For example I have some ToC stuff but its usually like +50str/+90 Sta where my PvP gear is generally +60St/+ 120 Stamina. Even when I do Heroics and get a drop, its never as good as my PvP gear - generally not even close.

I guess I just need to bite the bullet and sacrifice all the stam stuff for Str and Hit gear.

I wish I had all the Direbrew trinkets. I missed out because I never found the quest giver, I would go all around the damn brewfest and never got the damn quest.
I just did BRD yesterday for the first time, and it took like an hour to get the shadowforge key and make my way to the spy in the bar. Sucks because every plate in the game has 2 +170 stamina trinkets now.
Hopefully the next festivle will offer something similar.

Lastly, I messed up in Argent Crusade and I have the Dranei race offering me quests but not the Ironforge delegates. So I guess I am stuck finishing their damn quests - which I never do anymore because its such a boring pain.

Ixtellor

P.S. Part of me says I should give up on DPS and just go tank and suck it up, I am just so used to OWNING in BG's now and its been soo good to me in terms of gear I am loathe too.
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esmooths
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby esmooths » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:29 pm UTC

Your shoulder enchant is Stam/Resil though, which counts for nothing as a DPS Pally. The Inscription of Triumph is Str/Resil bought with Stone Keeper's Shards, and would be better for DPS. Best-in-slot or near best for a DPS Pally would probably be Lesser/Greater Inscription of the Axe (AP/Crit), which are bought from the Sons of Hodir at Honored/Exalted. Another example is your chestpiece, which has an armor kit on it now. the "Super Stats" enchant would be better (+8 to all main stats) and is relatively cheap compared to its better sibling, "Powerful Stats".

As far as gems, even swapping from uncommon to rare level would help. Personally I wouldn't bother with epic gems except for things you'll be keeping a long time. The main thing is to gem consistently for your spec. As you noted, Stamina does nothing for DPS, except keeping you alive.

And I can see your point on your PvP gear being better than Heroic drops, just due to higher ilvl. Of course, you use what you've got. But where you can you should look for upgrades. Replacing the ilvl 200 PvP stuff is a good start. The set bonuses aren't going to help in PvE.

A note on tanking. You need to be def-capped to tank heroics/raids, which is 540 defense rating. PvP gear is going to be even more of a hindrance to tanking than DPS. Start building up new gear sets when you can.

I think you figured it out, but the Direbrew quest giver is in BRD near the boss itself. It's scaled to lv 80 so you'll need a group. Brewfest ends today at midnight I believe, so you have one more shot if you can play today.

I think (though I am not sure, so don't hold it against me) that dropping the "Valiant's Charge" quest that requires the 25 seals would allow you to champion for another race, though doing so will probably destroy any seals you have acquired to this point. I will agree it is a boring pain though. Doing old world quests works as well, as Chen mentioned, as they will be absurdly easy, and rep doesn't scale down at higher levels for those quests.

ETA: You don't have to "give up" on DPS to tank. You're dual specced, just start collecting two (or 3) gear sets. It'll be expensive and slow, but in a lot of cases, running heroics, if the tank is geared, you should be able to roll off-spec for tank gear that drops.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:28 pm UTC

esmooths wrote:I think (though I am not sure, so don't hold it against me) that dropping the "Valiant's Charge" quest that requires the 25 seals would allow you to champion for another race, though doing so will probably destroy any seals you have acquired to this point. I will agree it is a boring pain though. Doing old world quests works as well, as Chen mentioned, as they will be absurdly easy, and rep doesn't scale down at higher levels for those quests.


I don't think dropping the Valiant's charge does let you go with another race. There's a quest that you immediately turn in to open up the Valiant's Charge called "Valiant of [city name]" or something. Once you've accepted and turned that one in I think you're stuck with that Race until you become their champion. Do note though that you can collect MORE than 25 seals while doing the quests for one race. Valiant's charge only uses up 25 so any extras can be used for any other Race's "Valiant's charge" quest. You could farm up all 125 seals with just one race and then immediately become champion for all the races, for example. Its not terribly useful to do this since you'd waste the rep gains (you'd hit exalted with the race WAY before getting 125 seals). But its useful to know so you don't go destroying seals if you still have races to become champion with.

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The Utilitarian
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby The Utilitarian » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:17 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I switched to Frost DW from unholy on my DK and it takes a little while to get used to it I find. Having some sort of sound warning for Killing Machine and Rime I found helped a lot. I found it annoying to have to watch for those to proc and find I can concentrate on looking at runes cooldown, runic power or the fight in general if I just setup one sound for Killing Machine and another for Rime.


Aye, I use Power Auras for all my proc alerts like Killing Machine. I don't know ho wI got along without it previously. It's fabulous.

I did some twerking and it seems like I'm back up to where I was before. Essentially I realized a few things:

During raiding I had more runic power than I had time to spend it between rune cooldowns, so I dropped my Glyph of Icy Touch and replaced it with a Glyph of Blood Strike (other two are Frost Strike and Obliterate, obviously). Also dropped the frost talent (can't remember that name) that provides extra runic power from moves. Now I find that I have just enough runic power to spend between my runes cooling down and I'm not always capping or having to put off using Obliterate to spend Frost strikes. Put the extra talent points into filling up Killing Machine.

Also swapped my offhand enchant from Fallen Crusader to Razorice. I have to say I underestimated the amount of damage that Razorice can add up to over the course of a long fight. Definately the right choice.

My dps is now predictably higher than my old spec. Now all I need is to replace my last few pieces PVP with equivilant PVE gear, and pick up a better freaking offhand. It's embarrasing using a tanking weapon for dps.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Babam » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:42 pm UTC

If you are doing 2.5k DPS you are more the than good enough for some Nax10 or Nax25 runs, try and get into Nax10/25 and heroics and farm badges for the tier 8.5 Chest/helm.

If your guild isn't willing to raid, and you want to raid, drop em. Check out your servers forum section and pay attention to trade chat for guild recruitment.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:16 pm UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:During raiding I had more runic power than I had time to spend it between rune cooldowns, so I dropped my Glyph of Icy Touch and replaced it with a Glyph of Blood Strike (other two are Frost Strike and Obliterate, obviously). Also dropped the frost talent (can't remember that name) that provides extra runic power from moves. Now I find that I have just enough runic power to spend between my runes cooling down and I'm not always capping or having to put off using Obliterate to spend Frost strikes. Put the extra talent points into filling up Killing Machine.


I've heard some decent things about the Glyph of Pestillence too which allows a decent way to refresh diseases without costing Frost or Unholy runes. If I find myself too high on Runic power (I don't raid too often as my DK) I might try replacing the Icy touch one with that.

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Ixtellor
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:50 pm UTC

I might be looking in the wrong place for enchants because there are very few available in the AH.
I looked under consumbale item enhancment. Is there another place to look?
Do I need to 'hire' an enchanter?

Tried doing direbrew on the last day, nobody would let me in a group including 1 I formed because I didn't have "summon" wtf that is. So spent my 2 hours yesterday doing BG's, where I consistantly ROCK. Made about 15K honor.


Thanks for all the help so far. I swapped out my 2 stam gems and added a gem to by belt slot.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby TTS » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:49 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Ret pally. I use the Titansteel mace which is 2 Handed epic 186 DPS. I want to get Edge of Ruin which is like 226 DPS, but can't ever get in a H ToC 10 man.


Edge of Ruin drops from the heroic 5 man version of ToC.

I thought I had enchants on everything that could be enchanted. I know I have a 10,000 honor point enchant on my shoulders. Every time I go to the AH, all the enchants are +armor though.
What enchants should I be looking out for? I never really see anything that useful at the AH.


Almost every slot of gear can be enchanted. If you're gearing for PVP, you really don't want gear with resilience on it, since the resilience and extra stamina is using itemization points that could go towards DPS stats. Look up your character on http://be.imba.hu and it'll tell you what enchants/gems/etc you're missing and what you should use. Your head enchant should be coming from the Knights of the Ebon Blade quartermaster in Northwestern Icecrown(requires Revered reputation with them -- get runnin' them heroics/dailies!) and your shoulder enchant should be coming from the Sons of Hodir quartermaster in Southeast Storm Peaks. There are two quality levels of shoulder enchants, one requiring honored reputation with SoH, the other requiring Exalted. If you plan on raiding seriously, work on getting exalted via Relic of Ulduar turnins and the SoH dailies.

On gems, I am fully gemed but some of them are Stam gems so I have been planning on swapping them out, only reason I have not yet is I was tinkering with the idea of going a tank build -- because people are always looking for tanks and never looking for DPS. So my gems are a mismatch.
Also I have noticed that the difference between a +20 str gem and a +12 str gem is about 200 gold, so I mostly have the latter.

Stamina gems as a DPS aren't a good idea. Once you start acquiring pieces of gear that you'll actually have for a little while(aka epics, not PVP pieces) you can turn in 10,000 honor for 1 epic gem, which you can probably get cut for free from a jewelcrafter in your guild -- ret paladins gem for pure strength, so Bold Cardinal Rubies, as far as I know.

The reason I am still wearing all PvP gear with 2 exceptions, is because I have never found better. For example I have some ToC stuff but its usually like +50str/+90 Sta where my PvP gear is generally +60St/+ 120 Stamina. Even when I do Heroics and get a drop, its never as good as my PvP gear - generally not even close. I guess I just need to bite the bullet and sacrifice all the stam stuff for Str and Hit gear.

Stamina and resil don't help DPS. Most gear from heroics is pretty bad nowadays, with the exception of Trial of the Champion. Your best bet for gearing up quickly is running lots of heroic 5 mans and collecting Emblems of Conquest, which can be turned in for items that are of the same item level as Ulduar 25 drops.

I wish I had all the Direbrew trinkets. I missed out because I never found the quest giver, I would go all around the damn brewfest and never got the damn quest.
I just did BRD yesterday for the first time, and it took like an hour to get the shadowforge key and make my way to the spy in the bar. Sucks because every plate in the game has 2 +170 stamina trinkets now.
Hopefully the next festivle will offer something similar.

Too late now, but the summon was acquirable from an NPC standing very close to Coren Direbrew. Right after entering BRD you could kill three level 80 NPCs standing to your right and take a drill machine directly to Coren's room.

Lastly, I messed up in Argent Crusade and I have the Dranei race offering me quests but not the Ironforge delegates. So I guess I am stuck finishing their damn quests - which I never do anymore because its such a boring pain.

The quests are the same regardless of the faction offering them, so if you think they're boring now, they'll be just as boring when you're doing Ironforge's. The rewards offered from each race's quartermaster are identical, with the exception of mounts and vanity pets -- so you haven't really messed up on anything.

Tanking's by far the most gear dependent role out of the three, so if you have trouble acquiring new gear, I'd probably gather some Ret gear first and pick up offspec tanking pieces as they become available. Ultimately, though, play what you want to play -- there'll be room for you somewhere as any role, especially if you're good at it. Don't get pigeon holed into doing something you don't want to do just so you can hopefully find a group faster.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby telcontar42 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:I might be looking in the wrong place for enchants because there are very few available in the AH.
I looked under consumbale item enhancment. Is there another place to look?
Do I need to 'hire' an enchanter?

Yes. Figure out what enchantments you want, buy the mats on the AH, and then find an enchanter to enchant for you.

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Ixtellor
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:44 pm UTC

telcontar42 wrote:Yes. Figure out what enchantments you want, buy the mats on the AH, and then find an enchanter to enchant for you.


Something I am curious about. I trade a person the mats and then he enchants him, but what guarentees he gives it back?
Is it just a trust issue or is there some inheriant command that makes it so he can't rip me off.

Aside from PvP gear having +res instead of something else, people are always talking about PvP gear like it sucks.
The choice is generally between:
PvP Helm
+70 str
+ 115 Stam
+45 crit
+30 res
+20 Hit Rating

or

Heroic Drop
+50 Str
+90 Stam
+45 crit
+30 hit rating
+ 20 Armor penetration

It seems to me that the +str and stam bonus far out weigh swapping +res for +armor penetration.

Am I miscalculating?

I have read that for DPS pally it should always be
Hit rating
Str
Attack power
Crit

in that order.

I do 2500 dps consistantly , and hopefully that will go up now that I did some minor gear tweaks, but people act like I am dressed in all blues when they see I am decked out in PvP gear. It doesn't make sense to me.


Ixtellor Level 80 Ret/Prot Paladin red headed step child.

P.S. I guess I shall look for a more raid oriented guild, my only hesitation is my abysmal and inconsistant playtime would make me an unlikely candidate.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby philsov » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:48 pm UTC

no guarentee. If you're really concerned, you can hand them the mats for one enchant, get it chanted, and repeat until all the gear is chanted and the mats are consumed. But that sort of thing has never happened to me either -- I just dump the truckload of shards and such on the guy and then get it all chanted. It's a lot easier on the chanter's end, too. Don't forget to tip a little extra if they put up with that one at a time business :p

regarding the helms:
pvp helm = 20 more Str, 10 less hit, 20 less armor pen. For a ret pally it's a near wash, so you're still basically in blues, unless the heroic drop in question is a purple, in which case you're basically in 10-player naxx gear. It's perfectly fine for all heroics (including ToC), but isn't too hot in raids but since you don't do much of that in the first place that's no big deal. A lot of people just like overgearing whatever they're doing.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Something I am curious about. I trade a person the mats and then he enchants him, but what guarentees he gives it back?
Is it just a trust issue or is there some inheriant command that makes it so he can't rip me off.


Well it is a trust thing, but you can report people for scamming if they just take your things and run off with them. You'll get your stuff back (though it'll take some time) and they'll likely get a ban of some sort. This is official policy so its very rare that you'll see people actually try and steal stuff directly in this regard.

I do 2500 dps consistantly , and hopefully that will go up now that I did some minor gear tweaks, but people act like I am dressed in all blues when they see I am decked out in PvP gear. It doesn't make sense to me.


We're fairly deep into the life cycle of this expansion. There arnt going to be as many guilds running Naxx and whatnot anymore so really 2500 dps is not going to be accepted for most things. The best hope of entering into any raiding would be doing the few pug Naxx runs that still get organized in trade chat. As I said though, theyre not that common, especially since you can get Ulduar level gear from doing heroics now.

Which brings me to the following: farm heroics for badges to get Ulduar level PvE gear. Emblems of Conquest can be traded in for 2 pieces of Tier 9 gear as well as a bunch of offset stuff. Its expensive though. You'll need to farm a LOT of heroics to get pieces. Another option is to farm a LOT of gold and buy the random ToC or Ulduar pieces on the AH. Ulduar is getting run less and less and those who do get BoE drops tend to sell them fairly cheap now. Runed orbs are dirt cheap now so buying those to make ilvl 226 boots and belt is probably worthwhile as well.

If you want to PvE in PvP gear you'll need probably about a tier higher level gear. An extra 30 or so stat points on a piece of gear is fairly signigicant when you add it up over all your pieces and thats what you're losing when you replace some dps stat with resilience (and extra Sta). Similarly, as people have said, make sure everything is enchanted. Sure the top end enchants are expensive, but the ones just below this are generally not that bad at all (e.g., 8 stats to chest vs 10 stats to chest or massacre vs berserking for your weapon).

Really though the biggest issue is people are lazy. While yes its easily possible to clear Naxx with everyone doing 2500 dps (its what people were doing when it first came out), no one WANTS to do this anymore. Anyone going through Naxx is probably doing it for one or two pieces of gear and thus wants to do it FAST. This means overgeared people speed clearing the instance. The same goes for heroics. Sure you can dps a heroic in Blues. But no one wants that, they want to clear it fast to get their badges fast. Keeping this in mind you will either need to spend time getting better gear so the majority accepts you into runs, or spend more time finding groups that don't mind your just starting out. Either way its going to be a large time commitment to "catch up" with the majority of most server populations.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby telcontar42 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:09 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Something I am curious about. I trade a person the mats and then he enchants him, but what guarentees he gives it back?
Is it just a trust issue or is there some inheriant command that makes it so he can't rip me off.

Yeah, there is no guarantee, but I think you can report people who rip you off like that. You could also post in trade chat that the person ripped you off so people who see that will never trade with them. I think its pretty rare though. I have had a lot of people make stuff for me and have never had a problem.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Decker » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:30 pm UTC

telcontar42 wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:Something I am curious about. I trade a person the mats and then he enchants him, but what guarentees he gives it back?
Is it just a trust issue or is there some inheriant command that makes it so he can't rip me off.

Yeah, there is no guarantee, but I think you can report people who rip you off like that. You could also post in trade chat that the person ripped you off so people who see that will never trade with them. I think its pretty rare though. I have had a lot of people make stuff for me and have never had a problem.
Yeah, the only thing the person risks is a bad reputation. However, a bad reputation can be quite crippling in a game like this. You CAN report people that do this, but I'm not sure what actions the GM will take.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby zug » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Decker wrote:
telcontar42 wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:Something I am curious about. I trade a person the mats and then he enchants him, but what guarentees he gives it back?
Is it just a trust issue or is there some inheriant command that makes it so he can't rip me off.

Yeah, there is no guarantee, but I think you can report people who rip you off like that. You could also post in trade chat that the person ripped you off so people who see that will never trade with them. I think its pretty rare though. I have had a lot of people make stuff for me and have never had a problem.
Yeah, the only thing the person risks is a bad reputation. However, a bad reputation can be quite crippling in a game like this. You CAN report people that do this, but I'm not sure what actions the GM will take.

They risk a 3 day ban if it's their first offense, permaban for the second. Scammers don't last long in this game.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Kag » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:50 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Emblems of Conquest can be traded in for 2 pieces of Tier 9 gear as well as a bunch of offset stuff.
Small point of order: that's 25-man T8 gear you get from Emblems of Conquest.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:59 am UTC

you also get about 20 emblems from 1 naxx run so running naxx25/10 = 40 emblems which is still pretty nice, so naxx is still great. also a lot of great pre-ulduar stuff comes from naxx25 (those boe boots off thadd for casters, grim toll, betrayer, etc)

imo go run naxx. it's really easy and mad puggable. although it's getting to the point on my server where even pugs don't want to go there heh.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:32 pm UTC

aaron wrote:although it's getting to the point on my server where even pugs don't want to go there heh.


Yeah this is the big issue. Its not that there isnt good stuff in there (because there is) its just that no one wants to, especially considering how easy ToC25 is to pug if you have some remotely decent tanks/healers. The new weekly RAID quests that were previewed on MMO-champ may get people to start running some bits of the old instances again which could help newbies. 10 new emblems is probably worth getting a group together and going to kill an early instance boss (they all seem to be early ones).

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:45 pm UTC

Our guild had a fun few days of raiding this week.

We're strictly 10man progression so we only Raid 2 nights a week with a 3rd fun optional night where we do stuff like 3D zerg.

We decided to start doing the Uld 10 hard modes and we've managed to get the first 7 out of the 13 required for the Rusted Proto in 2 nights.

So far 4 Tower FL has been the hardest, Iron Dwarf Medium Rare has been the most time consuming and I Choose You Steelbreaker has been the most suprising.

4T is really just around tuning your Demolishers so they're hitting 10 Stacks of Pyrite the entire fight and still shutting down every chance u can. Pretty easy once you figure out how.
Iron Dwarf just takes stupidly long because the Flames seem to be a little random so sometimes Razor kills 5 Dwarfs but u only get recognition for 2 which is annoying but doable.
I Choose You was suprising just because it was so damn easy. We don't run with a Druid or Lock in our 10man group so we were worried about how we could burn Steelbreaker down at the end with only 2 Tanks to explode.
Turns out we had nothing to worry about because his large posterior hit the ground shortly after the 2nd Tank got the Debuff and long before he exploded.

Looks like the only really Hard Mints left for our Drakes are Mimi, Freya and Yogg.
We're starting a fresh clear tonight and hitting some of the original mints again for people that were not there before and then we'll most likely extend the Lockout so we can spend a bit more time on Yogg and Mimi.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Dobblesworth » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:05 pm UTC

Also to consider is the fact that heroics in general can be completed at a faster rate than Naxxramas. Getting 20 Emblems of Faceroll from 5, maybe 6 heroics can often be a cheaper time investment than sitting in Naxxramas for several hours and worrying whether or not half the raid has brought their ballet plimsolls for Heigan. Take those Emblems of Faceroll over time and buy your T8.5 Conquest loot, then the various Conquest/Valor frills to fill in the gaps.

For some strange reason, I still lack a Grobbuloot-25 kill to finish off the Naxx25 completion marker. My luck with PUGs and guild runs doing it would often be "wipe 3 times at Patchwerk" or "just need a few dps who know to move around Thaddius".

Really annoyed by the state of affairs with the new Onyxia. Back in the day it was 40 max, there was often room for more dps to fill in the gaps once you had the necessary FireResToTheMax tank and some competent healers with a side order of TwoRowsShadowWordPainRendsWarlockCurses-MOREDOTSNOW. Now the only times I'm being LFM Ony is when they want the final healer for 10-man. DPS requirements at 5,000+ are annoying too. Honestly, so few of them get the drift that I'm shoving Rhok'delar & Lok'delar in their faces, with "back-in-the-day semi-best-in-slot" +7 ranged damage scope and +25 agility enchant. Isn't that proof enough I know how Deep Breath works? There's no Patchwerk-like DPS check, beyond maybe "might be wise to finish air phase soon" or "hmm, we got AoE for them whelps?". Heck so long as you got DBM installed, you're set for when Deep Breath comes around.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:26 pm UTC

FoS wrote:4T is really just around tuning your Demolishers so they're hitting 10 Stacks of Pyrite the entire fight and still shutting down every chance u can. Pretty easy once you figure out how.


One thing we found helps a lot is that you can preload people into a single demolisher (ie one demolisher holding 3 people) and just leave one motorcycle empty. This allows one demolisher to always be damaging FL and picking up Pyrite while the other one launches someone but still has someone to pick up pyrite for them. Its quite efficient (works well on 25 man as well).

Dobblesworth wrote:DPS requirements at 5,000+ are annoying too. Honestly, so few of them get the drift that I'm shoving Rhok'delar & Lok'delar in their faces, with "back-in-the-day semi-best-in-slot" +7 ranged damage scope and +25 agility enchant. Isn't that proof enough I know how Deep Breath works? There's no Patchwerk-like DPS check, beyond maybe "might be wise to finish air phase soon" or "hmm, we got AoE for them whelps?". Heck so long as you got DBM installed, you're set for when Deep Breath comes around.


I assume you mean pugs asking for 5k dps to do Ony rather than an actual requirement in the fight of 5k. And to be fair I'm sure a lot of people who raided back in the day still think more dots make deep breath happen less often. Or that spreading out does. Or any number of other things that people said caused deep breaths. The new deep breath is ridiculously slow and narrow compared to the old one anyways, though it is kinda annoying that it hits directly behind her when she first shoots it. I kinda figured the first time that would be a guarenteed safe spot.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:02 pm UTC

deep breath is a lot smaller than what i remembered it to be

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby The Utilitarian » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

Chen wrote:I've heard some decent things about the Glyph of Pestillence too which allows a decent way to refresh diseases without costing Frost or Unholy runes. If I find myself too high on Runic power (I don't raid too often as my DK) I might try replacing the Icy touch one with that.

Glyph of Pestillence was one of my first considerations but it has a problem. I have to use Icy Touch once every 20 seconds to keep my 20% extra attack speed up for myself and my raid. Glyphed Pestillence keeps your diseases up but does not refresh your attack speed buff. Since my normal rotation in frost spec is a 20 second rotation anyways (IT, PS, OB, BS, BS, OB, OB, OB, repeat, FS when I get a chance), I end up using Icy Touch just enough to keep my haste and diseases online. All I'd be gaining using the Glyph of Pestillence is a single Unholy rune, which isn't worth much.

Blood strike seems to be working well, although I suppose I don't always have a guarentee that someone is snaring the boss, I tend to assume someone is getting around to it though. When they change the Icy Touch glyph to +20% damage I might start using that instead.

Also just got Ony25 Vis'kag the Bloodletter this morning. Now I have a pair of 196dps 1handers. Awesome. Had to gloat to someone. -_^
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:37 pm UTC

Read up on enchants last night.
When you buy the materials for the enchanter are you expected to buy them the tool as well, or are they expected to have it?
Finally got edge of ruin, and now I am putting out 3kdps. Would have gotten some spectacular DPS leggings but got outrolled. During my Daily PvP I was once again #1 in Damage and #4 in healing. It feels like people are dying faster to me now which feels... great. Wings + Stun + rotation = PAIN.

Hopefully the 3k dps will get me into more groups and as I slowly add the enchants the numbers will just keep going up.

Working on Sons of Hodir revered right now.


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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Decker » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:27 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Read up on enchants last night.
When you buy the materials for the enchanter are you expected to buy them the tool as well, or are they expected to have it?

If by the tool you mean the enchanting rod, then the enchanters are expected to have that. It's a reusable item and no good enchanter should be without the best rod he can get.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:00 pm UTC

Chen wrote:One thing we found helps a lot is that you can preload people into a single demolisher (ie one demolisher holding 3 people) and just leave one motorcycle empty. This allows one demolisher to always be damaging FL and picking up Pyrite while the other one launches someone but still has someone to pick up pyrite for them. Its quite efficient (works well on 25 man as well).


Yeah thats the tactic we use. Works great and the Damage output is massive.

aaron wrote:deep breath is a lot smaller than what i remembered it to be


Deep Breath used to hit the entire Chamber. Now it's only a frontal cone.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:23 pm UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:Glyph of Pestillence was one of my first considerations but it has a problem. I have to use Icy Touch once every 20 seconds to keep...

...up Icy Talons. If you have IIT, you don't ise the Pest Glyph. The real strength behind it is the disease 'rolling' -- where you put up your diseases with your maximum AP and keep them at that strength using pestilence. In most spec's this also enables you to get an extra obliterate/death strike/scourge strike off mid rotation every so often, but that's just an ease of use issue.

Just by reading your post I'm not sure what spec you actually are?

All I'd be gaining using the Glyph of Pestillence is a single Unholy rune, which isn't worth much.

Disease rolling.

Blood strike seems to be working well, although I suppose I don't always have a guarentee that someone is snaring the boss, I tend to assume someone is getting around to it though. When they change the Icy Touch glyph to +20% damage I might start using that instead.

You shouldn't, and it doesn't. +20% damage on abilities that hit for less than 2000 even when very well geared is just a waste of a slot; furthermore even blood spec's don't use glyph of BS because it doesn't work like it used to -- it's more of a PVP glyph, and not a good one at that. It used to be slowing effects but now it's snaring -- which raid bosses are immune to.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby The Utilitarian » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:09 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:
The Utilitarian wrote:Glyph of Pestillence was one of my first considerations but it has a problem. I have to use Icy Touch once every 20 seconds to keep...

...up Icy Talons. If you have IIT, you don't ise the Pest Glyph. The real strength behind it is the disease 'rolling' -- where you put up your diseases with your maximum AP and keep them at that strength using pestilence. In most spec's this also enables you to get an extra obliterate/death strike/scourge strike off mid rotation every so often, but that's just an ease of use issue.

Just by reading your post I'm not sure what spec you actually are?

All I'd be gaining using the Glyph of Pestillence is a single Unholy rune, which isn't worth much.

Disease rolling.

Blood strike seems to be working well, although I suppose I don't always have a guarentee that someone is snaring the boss, I tend to assume someone is getting around to it though. When they change the Icy Touch glyph to +20% damage I might start using that instead.

You shouldn't, and it doesn't. +20% damage on abilities that hit for less than 2000 even when very well geared is just a waste of a slot; furthermore even blood spec's don't use glyph of BS because it doesn't work like it used to -- it's more of a PVP glyph, and not a good one at that. It used to be slowing effects but now it's snaring -- which raid bosses are immune to.


Mmm I see, I hadn't considered the advantages of this "disease rolling". Here's my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Jesibelle
The spec with Icy Talons is my PVE spec, the other is my PVP spec. Well in that case I'm rightly stumped as to what glyph to use in my third slot to maximize raid dps. Suggestions?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby setzer777 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:45 pm UTC

Finally got my first flying mount! It feels so freeing...

One thing I don't get though - since it has a slower ground speed than air speed, why would you ever have it run instead of fly? Even in tight spaces you can fly right above the ground.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:02 am UTC

i think blizzard just doesn't want people going over 100% while on the ground

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:50 pm UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:Mmm I see, I hadn't considered the advantages of this "disease rolling". Here's my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Jesibelle
The spec with Icy Talons is my PVE spec, the other is my PVP spec. Well in that case I'm rightly stumped as to what glyph to use in my third slot to maximize raid dps. Suggestions?

Currently Glyph of Icy Touch is very potent. After 3.3 it'll be useless. If you're certain you want to provide IIT (meaning you don't have any shamans able to put down windfury around you ever) then I'm not certain what would be a worthwhile replacement. I don't provide IIT and therefore can use Glyph of Pestilence (which is a higher DPS spec assuming melee haste is provided elsewhere, but isn't much of a DPS loss otherwise).
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby setzer777 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:41 pm UTC

Oh my god...I just switched my warlock to a deep affliction leveling spec at 64....now I really know why people say 'locks are EZ mode leveling. This almost feels like cheating...
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Dobblesworth » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:37 pm UTC

Yesterday afternoon was pretty glorious.
While running heroic HoS for my 2 Emblems of Entitlement on the daily quest, a cry goes up of "anyone fancy running OS Sarth3D 10-man?" Franticly I finished that heroic, in a questionable PUG with a tank who hadn't quite emblem-farmed enough, such that he was in Onslaught Tier 6 and not holding aggro well enough, and a retadin who'd chosen not to spec at all for Replenishment.

It did take us about 6-7 attempts, but the setup we got it down on was something like:
    Prot Warrior (sitting on about 40k HP) taking the Sartharion tanking
    Feral Druid - cat DPS, then I think she may have switched over to tanking Tenebron (or whichever drake it is that lands first on 3D
    Marksman Hunter - myself
    Elemental Shaman - Heroism popped about 5% in pretty damn necessary for any attempts
    Boomkin Druid
    Warlock
    Arcane Mage
    Holy Paladin - single healer
    Death Knights - 2 DPS
Our initial attempts involved running in from the southwest islands in the lava lake, and engaging him in that bottom corner, failed. Sarth's bloody huge hitbox meant I couldn't plonk myself under his belly and fire my normal ranged rotation, so found myself rotating around and losing DPS uptime. Similarly, ranged DPS sitting out on the islands weren't quite immune to the Fire Wall spawns, or Sarth's instant-cast pyroblast hits.

Taking a new approach, we charged in in the normal direction from the east/instance entrance, and played the fire walls normally. First run-through this way went tits up when I think the tank died from holding aggro on all 3 of Tenebron, a fire elemental and Sarth himself, but we nailed him on the follow-up attempt.

Which was pretty mental.

Standing at the back I found myself acting as a reserve tank when one of the elementals decided to pick a fight with the healadin. Honestly, it's split-second acts of selflessness that get you these marks of raiding progression done. In the last split-seconds, with the boss down to about 5%, my mind was so focussed on popping Kill Shot once it came off cooldown, that I forgot to evade a lava wall coming in from my right. Knocked back, incinerated to the nth degree, I got that KS off just as he went down, while my final moments were spent roasting gloriously in the lava ring, as the achievement popped.

Magnificent.

Also scored myself a DPS upgrade in the form of a 213 ilvl ring to replace "Ceiling Ring of Grobbuloot" I'd had since Naxx10 over 6 months ago.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby The Utilitarian » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:49 pm UTC

Haistfu wrote:
The Utilitarian wrote:Mmm I see, I hadn't considered the advantages of this "disease rolling". Here's my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... =Jesibelle
The spec with Icy Talons is my PVE spec, the other is my PVP spec. Well in that case I'm rightly stumped as to what glyph to use in my third slot to maximize raid dps. Suggestions?

Currently Glyph of Icy Touch is very potent. After 3.3 it'll be useless. If you're certain you want to provide IIT (meaning you don't have any shamans able to put down windfury around you ever) then I'm not certain what would be a worthwhile replacement. I don't provide IIT and therefore can use Glyph of Pestilence (which is a higher DPS spec assuming melee haste is provided elsewhere, but isn't much of a DPS loss otherwise).

Well sadly my guild tends to raid on nights that I have work and school, leaving me generally unable to attend functional organized raids. This leaves me to end up doing most of my raiding through PUGs. Unfortunately this means I can't always rely upon having Windfury handy. Even when there is a shaman (which isn't guarenteed) the heavy focus on Ranged dps tends to mean that the Air totem is used for caster haste rather than Windfury.

If I had a guarentee that I'd have Windfury handy any time people were looking at my dps, I'd totally drop IIT like a rock, put those points somewhere else, and get into your "disease rolling" idea. Unfortunately I really can't say that I'm willing to believe that the extra AP on my diseases is going to provide me with a higher DPS boost than 25% extra attack speed. (again, when I can't guarentee Windfury)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

A lot of people seem to be bonkers about the extra 10rp from the Glyph of Icy touch but unless I'm running in Unholy presence, I just don't have the time to spend all my Runic Power, so getting an extra 10 seems superfluous.

It's interesting that everyone thinks that the change to the Icy Touch glyph is going to render it useless, but don't you think that having 20% extra damage on Frost Fever (which is up CONSTANTLY on anything you're fighting) would be useful?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby zug » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:17 pm UTC

I know I'm very, very late here. However I wanted to tout the fun and awesomeness that is jewelcrafting. I leveled mining from 1-400+ on Saturday (about 17 hours of work there, tbh) and picked up JC that night. I spent maybe an extra 1000 gold out of pocket to get it leveled up to 420, which was less than I expected (of course there's a huge opportunity cost for all that ore, but it was worth it to level the profession).

My druid is only 73 but I will have the cash for epic flying tonight! I put up almost 300 auctions of ore and gems (and leftover jc mats) yesterday evening, and reaped 1000g of that this morning. I'm sure I'll have another thousand (at LEAST) by tonight. hooray for JC!
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Kag » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:48 pm UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:It's interesting that everyone thinks that the change to the Icy Touch glyph is going to render it useless, but don't you think that having 20% extra damage on Frost Fever (which is up CONSTANTLY on anything you're fighting) would be useful?
No. Frost Fever does a tiny amount of damage. Let's look at the formula.

[AP * 0.055 * 1.15] Frost Damage every 3 seconds.

Doing some quick math, this means the glyph gives you about .004 extra dps per point of attack power.

So even if you have an impossibly huge amount of AP, the glyph will be giving you maybe 50 dps.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby The Utilitarian » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:18 am UTC

Kag wrote:
The Utilitarian wrote:It's interesting that everyone thinks that the change to the Icy Touch glyph is going to render it useless, but don't you think that having 20% extra damage on Frost Fever (which is up CONSTANTLY on anything you're fighting) would be useful?
No. Frost Fever does a tiny amount of damage. Let's look at the formula.

[AP * 0.055 * 1.15] Frost Damage every 3 seconds.

Doing some quick math, this means the glyph gives you about .004 extra dps per point of attack power.

So even if you have an impossibly huge amount of AP, the glyph will be giving you maybe 50 dps.

Your math is irrefutable. Unfortunately this still leaves me with an open glyph slot and nothing perticularily useful to put in it.

Now that Howling Fever builds are dead, the Howling Blast glyph seems a little pointless, and nothing else seems to apply. Le Sigh.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby talvinen » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:25 pm UTC

If you want to compare specs/glyphs, google "dk simulator", there is a quite interesting project running at ElitistJerks. It requires some meddling with xml-files though

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:36 pm UTC

Icy touch glyph provides SOME sort of DPS increases so its hardly useless. That's like saying upgrading a blue 16 str gem to an epic 20 Str gem is "useless" because it only provides a 2-3 dps upgrade.

Im also kinda curious as to why they continue to allow the sarth 3D "burn" method to work. Its fairly clear it wasnt intended (since there is an enrage mechanic that supposed to prevent it). I mean its very similar to the Freya 3 tree burn that WAS fixed. I mean I guess the content is fairly old now which is why they haven't bothered to do anything about it. The 10 man version of Sarth 3D was FAR more difficult than then 25 man version too which was somewhat of an issue I suppose. Still even when doing the stupid burn now for drakes or whatnot it feels like a joke in that you're ignoring a HUGE part of the fight by just burning Sarth fast.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:06 pm UTC

zug wrote:I know I'm very, very late here. However I wanted to tout the fun and awesomeness that is jewelcrafting. I leveled mining from 1-400+ on Saturday (about 17 hours of work there, tbh) and picked up JC that night. I spent maybe an extra 1000 gold out of pocket to get it leveled up to 420, which was less than I expected (of course there's a huge opportunity cost for all that ore, but it was worth it to level the profession).

My druid is only 73 but I will have the cash for epic flying tonight! I put up almost 300 auctions of ore and gems (and leftover jc mats) yesterday evening, and reaped 1000g of that this morning. I'm sure I'll have another thousand (at LEAST) by tonight. hooray for JC!


I have 400 mining skill, but am stuck on my blacksmith mostly for time, but also because of cost. I spent 800 gold and was only able to raise it like 20 points. I think I am currently at 255 skill in BS.

How hard (expensive) is it to level up enchanting? I was thinking I could solo dungeons and do a lot of DE to get the skill up if I wanted too. Maybe dump blacksmithing because I dont' really see a market for it at the top end.


Does anyone know how much artisan riding costs exhalted? I checked in hellfire and it was 4500gold. I have some epic rare dragon mount and figure I might as well get the skill.


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