WoWzers!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

mike-l
Posts: 2758
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:15 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Oh... epiphany... most people who play online games are fucking idiots... :(


I generally presuppose that any individual person is relatively smart, and any group of people is mindnumbinging dumb. I know those two don't jive, but yay for confirmation bias. (It's probably just more a social thing.. it's probably true that for any particular topic, the average person knows nothing about it/for any particular task the average person is abysmal at it, but it's a bad social idea to presuppose that the person in front of you doesn't know anything/is bad at something)
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.

User avatar
Obby
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
Location: Philadelphia

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Obby » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:02 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Lucrece wrote:WAR, FFXI were my best community experiences, just perfect communities in deficient games

Eegad are you serious? I quit WAR because of the community. In a game designed around multiplayer PvP, I can't begin to recount the number of groups I joined where melee healers (DoKs and WPs) were doing damage and self-healing while letting tanks slowly die, or the number of tanks not guarding, or the number of Chosen not using Auras, etc, etc, etc...

Oh... epiphany... most people who play online games are fucking idiots... :(


Yeah I gotta agree. WAR turned stale with me because, apparently, the idea that people could tank in PvP was so foreign, no one even bothered to try to do it properly. Granted, it wasn't an easy thing to do (good PvP tanks almost always meant your side won, in my experience, especially since I was a healer), but I still would have thought even a mediocre tank would be a good thing. Turned out I was dead wrong.
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:35 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:I generally presuppose that any individual person is relatively smart

And yet, it's the individuals that ruin playtime for PUGs and such... So, no, individuals, and indeed, the majority of them, are really dumb.
Obby wrote:the idea that people could tank in PvP was so foreign, no one even bothered to try to do it properly

Heh, the lvl 10 turning point ability tanks got in War was guard! what the hell did they think it was for? It drove me crazy to see tanks bragging about their dps while squishies had dozens of deaths in a matchup.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:42 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I agree, I just have to find a good guild with enough people that I can grab a decent tank and go whenever, and not be bothered by the rest of the community.

But,
Lucrece wrote:WAR, FFXI were my best community experiences, just perfect communities in deficient games

Eegad are you serious? I quit WAR because of the community. In a game designed around multiplayer PvP, I can't begin to recount the number of groups I joined where melee healers (DoKs and WPs) were doing damage and self-healing while letting tanks slowly die, or the number of tanks not guarding, or the number of Chosen not using Auras, etc, etc, etc...

Oh... epiphany... most people who play online games are fucking idiots... :(


Damn, you got into some shitty server then.

My experience was that it had some of the gentlest, most polite people I've dealt with. Community forums were civil. The dominant guilds for the most part behaved rather courteous to everyone with a few exceptions.

I got healed all the time in scenarios, but maybe it's because I was a Swordmaster. Warrior Priests loved me and I them equally.

For me WAR's failure was really tragic because I had formed some contacts with a group of the best people I've met and could stand in vent for more than an hour. Even now I miss some of those guys since I came back to WoW.

I see WoW as far more anonymous. I apply for the top raiding guild, meet the gear and spec requirements, link the appropriate logs. I'm in, I report dutifully on raid nights. But I can't say I ever established any connections with anyone despite success in raiding and being a good balance druid in the raid. I always kept vent muted since I could barely stand the conversations (e-thug galore).

I could make a server transfer easily, as I wouldn't miss anyone. Couldn't say the same about being in WAR. Too bad Tier 4 ruined it. The game was outright perfect, until it started to unravel toward the end of Tier 3.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Dobblesworth
Dobblesworth, here's the title you requested over three years ago. -Banana
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:06 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Dobblesworth » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:46 pm UTC

Dungeon Finder levelling for Outland was especially profitable getting my Protadin and Death Knigget up to 68, which I've managed in the last weeks - hoping to have them 80 before Cata, 75 before Operation Gnomeregan ends and so I can spam the Brewfest boss with them for the trinkets. Random BC dungeon stops when you're like 69-70, but at the top end I was still being sent to Sethekk Halls and Auchenai Crypts, never got shipped to Shattered Halls, Shadow Labyrinth or any of the Tempest Keep wings [poss. never the latter since I didn't see the point of burning cash on flight training at 60 with little rep discount, and when I'd be on foot in Northrend 8 levels later to 77].

Auchenai Crypts I checked out once with my main a long time ago, wiped a few times on first boss, maybe only got a complete run long after at 70 or on the heroic when people worked out how that googley-eyed git worked. AoE tanking buffs has made it easier, but nine times out of ten the first trash pull in particular would be a wipe, since there's a tonne of shadowmagi with little desire to melee and much desire to attract extra mobs.

The XP outcome was good, and saved the faff of running around after Outland quest chains I'd seen twice beforehand and instead pushed me in a linear grinding path of pull this trash pack, drop consecration, spam holy shield and hammer of the righteous, rinse and repeat. Quite often there'd be the healer or one or two of the DPS being a learned player on an alt caked up in heirlooms such as I was, but others, well, quite a few terribads along for the ride. I did enjoy the good run or so that had indepth discussion of what 80's we had and views on Cata, but a few derpderp'ers stick in my mind.

- Frost spec DK, charging around with a two-hander, no concept that there is no set-in-stone [until Cata] definition of blood/frost/unholy tank/dps/pvp alignment. "frost is dps so im in frost presence u noob" is a pretty close quote to what he was doing. On collecting a random 1h sword from the next boss, he promptly equipped it, un-runeforged with no partner, with the view it'd be greater DPS regardless. And then demanding we stop the run there and then to restart the same instance so he could get its twin off the same boss [errrr no thanks I'll take the +X thousand XP for finishing the run and 5g from selling vendor trash from the spoils bag]
- Too many death kniggets/dunkunks in general. Lol @ the many who think DK's can get optimal levelling with the Arcanite Reaper heirloom enchanted crusader, oh lol, the fools. Pretty damn sure quest greens from one or two levels below out in Outland when runeforged become far more potent.

- Resto shaman who turned out to be Italian and comprehended little of what was ordered around in party chat

- So many DPS' struggling to get over 400-500 while my tanking was netting 1k or above
- A fair share of huntards stuck in aspect of the viper all the time, many BM levellers stuck on auto shot with occasional serp sting, arc or steady shot, and I mean really occasional.
- So many questionable builds of all-or-nothing in Tree X such that they were nowhere close to their 51pt talent by mid 60's, and then from there doing nothing with said tree. Think I had some mage, talented frost, in a Nexus norm run this afternoon, who had 25% of his dps from Scorch. Not surprisingly he left around boss 1 when the party badmouthed his inability to dps for toffee or even drop arcane intellect on the numerous casters in the group, maybe even himself.
- Shamans w/o weapon buffs, particularly ENH ones.

Dungeon levelling, worth it, if you're competent, esp. if you fancy levelling tank/healz; instant queue time practically and even if there's a wipe or two or if you're just learning the ropes, most the dps will stick with it so they can get the run themselves and not another 25 min queue while they grind 20 Fel Orcs.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:31 pm UTC

I level solely through questing past vanilla content. Outland/wotlk quests are pretty nice for raking in gold. Dungeoning all the time gets you far less overall.


Plus, you're going to have to grind out your full t9, which is like 210 triumph badges. More if you go for idols and trinket. That alone makes me want to puke, but if I had to grind dungeons before, I would've gouged my eyes out first.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
WarDaft
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:16 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby WarDaft » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:12 pm UTC

Oh snap, 4.0.1 on the PTRs. The rest of us finally get to take a peak at some new stuff!

I was about to lament my installer bing stuck at 3% for 5 minutes now, but in the time it took me to type this sentence, it finished. Huh.
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:27 pm UTC

Only class changes, though.

Cataclysm content and newer abilities will still be unavailable.

It was nice to see how absurd my elemental shaman is, though.

Fulmination at 9 lightning orbs does 12k damage on my mediocre geared t9 shaman. Lava Burst hits for 12k, and gets constantly reset by lava surge talent.

I can only see either lava surge or lava burst being toned down. Lightning Overload with Lava Burst plus another lava burst reset and fulmination us just too much burst regardless of health pools getting larger.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
WarDaft
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:16 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby WarDaft » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:35 am UTC

Honestly, that doesn't actually sound that ominous next to Zealotry charged Templar's Verdict spam.
All Shadow priest spells that deal Fire damage now appear green.
Big freaky cereal boxes of death.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:28 pm UTC

LOL, no, Ret pallies are incredibly wimp right now. They hit like wet noodle.

Worst of all though is warlocks with 15% drain life. 15% HP restored in 3 seconds while the damage can crit for 3k ticks and it being a spammable ability makes warlocks pretty much immortal.

Right now in Cataclysm beta the only class that can beat a warlock is a good protection warrior, and that's because they can chain stun+silence the warlock for most of the match.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Vapour
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:19 am UTC
Location: Forest and Hills Zone.

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vapour » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:49 pm UTC

Defias Brotherhood 5th anniversary Wpvp event tonight and tomorrow night.

Sounds awesome and I'm quite excited :D

User avatar
Vyn
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:07 pm UTC

Warlocks and DK's (All specs) are sitting pretty right now on the PTR, and my priest (disc only one I tested) also quite strong. Paladins (Prot and Ret) are... well, utterly pathetic. Prot has an almost 40% downtime waiting for abilities to come off CD during which they auto-attack. In addition they've got DP as a shield wall, but it's only a 20% DR on a 2min CD and the new activated Ardent Defender which is MUCH weaker than current version. To contrast my DK has Vamp blood (15% max hp and 25% increased healing, 10 sec duration, 60 sec CD), IBF (60% DR, 12 sec duration, 2 min CD), Bone shield (Same as live), and DRW which is now 20% parry and increased threat on a 90 sec CD. 4 CD's, pretty much all of which are better than the Pally's two, and only one of them has an equal CD length, the other 3 are shorter. Right now on the PTR, Pally tanks are total and utter garbage and from my two friends that play ret ones, so are they.
I am Jon Stewart with some Colbert cynicism, Thomas Edison's curiousity, wrapped around a hardcore gamer sprinkled very liberally with Deadpool, and finished off with an almost Poison Ivy-esque love/hate relationship with humanity, flourish.

User avatar
Vapour
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:19 am UTC
Location: Forest and Hills Zone.

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vapour » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:51 am UTC

Vyn wrote:Warlocks and DK's (All specs) are sitting pretty right now on the PTR, and my priest (disc only one I tested) also quite strong. Paladins (Prot and Ret) are... well, utterly pathetic. Prot has an almost 40% downtime waiting for abilities to come off CD during which they auto-attack. In addition they've got DP as a shield wall, but it's only a 20% DR on a 2min CD and the new activated Ardent Defender which is MUCH weaker than current version. To contrast my DK has Vamp blood (15% max hp and 25% increased healing, 10 sec duration, 60 sec CD), IBF (60% DR, 12 sec duration, 2 min CD), Bone shield (Same as live), and DRW which is now 20% parry and increased threat on a 90 sec CD. 4 CD's, pretty much all of which are better than the Pally's two, and only one of them has an equal CD length, the other 3 are shorter. Right now on the PTR, Pally tanks are total and utter garbage and from my two friends that play ret ones, so are they.


Oh boy :cry:

User avatar
Obby
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
Location: Philadelphia

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Obby » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:01 am UTC

Yeah I had heard that Pallies got boned. Is it possible they just haven't gotten around to twerking the Pally yet? I had heard they had done very general updates to all the classes at once (adding the new skills, updating talent trees, etc.), then were going to fine tune each class one at a time, similar to how they would do the class updates on live a while ago.
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

User avatar
Vyn
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:27 pm UTC

Actually, Pallies have undergone the most changes of all classes, with the possible exception of hunters. The new "Holy Power" mechanic of trying to turn pallies into wannabe rogues is... well, really bad. You currently have one button to get Holy power and it's on a 4.5 sec CD, and your primary TPS (or DPS) ability takes 3 Holy Power to use effectively. Or your Word of Glory (a heal that puts a bubble on you for any overhealing) takes 3 Holy Power as well, but is really really weak, making it useless. Basically they just eviscerated paladins.
I am Jon Stewart with some Colbert cynicism, Thomas Edison's curiousity, wrapped around a hardcore gamer sprinkled very liberally with Deadpool, and finished off with an almost Poison Ivy-esque love/hate relationship with humanity, flourish.

User avatar
FoS
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:46 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:37 pm UTC

DK's have always had more Cooldowns available as a way to counter their reduced passive Damage Reduction.

That being said, the new DK tanking abilities look very good. I've not bothered to look at the Prot changes yet though. The only reason I looked at the DK Talents was because one of my mates was salivating over them.
"...working as intended"
Oomkin Druid - Sylvanas EU

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

It's a matter of a numbers twerk for Paladins. So long as the abilities dish enough damage for the time it takes to unleash them, it shouldn't be a problem. Just polish. They got a pretty good overhaul that will make them more intricate and flavorful in the long run.


Feral druids are actually worse than paladins because all feral attack power was removed and our abilities were balance to require on live double what we got on the PTR. So we hit like wet noodle.

1.5k Rip crits on full wrathful pretty much says everything, ew. Still waiting for the druid build.


As for hunters, people may bitch about the tuning, but I find focus incredibly fun. Now I'm really looking at a hunter as a possible main come cataclysm. Beastmastery, my favorite spec thematically, looks pretty strong. I just want the fear immunity from beast within back ;*(, warlocks are shitting one me along with shadow priests.

Oh, and the Unholy change to the pet. The abomination is AWESOME. 100% extra damage every 5 deathcoils for 30 seconds, plus powered up abilities. It's just great my pet hits like a truck. Plus ranged silence+interrupt with leap just makes fucking up casters as a DK so easy.

Mages are sort of weak along with druids in the beta, just too squishy and not as much burst/damage as shadow priests and locks and elemental shamans or hunters. Warriors are also a bit weak, but it's because warrior numbers need to be twerked.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
meatyochre
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 am UTC
Location: flying with the Conchords

Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:35 am UTC

I decided to dust off my warlock since it sounds like they are in a good place in cataclysm (c/d?). Plus, I really like incinerate's animation. COOLEST IN THE GAME! And totally farkin' unique.

It had been aaaages since I played her (she's 72). But I really like how, now, the deep demo talents actually aim you to choose specific spells.

Some advice I'd like: in instances, I've been throwing up curse of elephants, immolate, incinerate spam for single targets, and for aoe pulls I tab elephants onto all targets, then rain of fire until dead. Is this the right thing to do? Do demo locks ever use metamorphosis in instances?

(I will likely go fire-destro at 80 but just wondering for now)
Dark567 wrote:"Hey, I created a perpetual motion device"

"yeah, but your poster sucks. F-"

Image

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:21 am UTC

Pop it on cooldown unless you know there's a boss soon.

And, yes, you're going to be using immolate and incinerate as demo. Shadowbolt is confined to affliction.

Boy, are you going to love Hand of Gul'dan. Amazing spell graphic plus your felguard doing brostorm with mortal strike.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Oregonaut
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Oregon

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:44 pm UTC

So I've made a DK. I'm using them as a miner/skinner/cloth farmer for my main. I decided to spend most of my talent points in Frost, but I'm trying to make sense of the best way to gear them. My only real melee class experience was as a Prot War, so I know that this is not that. Any hints?
- Ochigo the Earth-Stomper

The EGE wrote:
Mumpy wrote:And to this day, librarians revile Oregonaut as the Antichrist.

False! We sacrifice our card catalogues to him in the name of Job Security!

mike-l
Posts: 2758
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:02 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:So I've made a DK. I'm using them as a miner/skinner/cloth farmer for my main. I decided to spend most of my talent points in Frost, but I'm trying to make sense of the best way to gear them. My only real melee class experience was as a Prot War, so I know that this is not that. Any hints?


Strength strength and more strength.

Get hit capped (this is actually slightly better than strength), then as much str as you can. Approximately, 1str = 1hit (to cap) = 1.9 expertise (to cap) = 2 crit = 2.4 AP = 3.1 Armor Pen = 4.7 haste. So strength is pretty much twice as good as anything else, and expertise and crit are your secondary choices. Haste is the worst, followed by armor pen.
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.

User avatar
Oregonaut
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Oregon

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:09 pm UTC

Ok, that's simple enough. I went with Frost after my lookings around showed that it was the least...odd? Is anyone around to say "WTF are you thinking? Don't go Frost! They'll kill the kittens!"
- Ochigo the Earth-Stomper

The EGE wrote:
Mumpy wrote:And to this day, librarians revile Oregonaut as the Antichrist.

False! We sacrifice our card catalogues to him in the name of Job Security!

mike-l
Posts: 2758
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:14 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Ok, that's simple enough. I went with Frost after my lookings around showed that it was the least...odd? Is anyone around to say "WTF are you thinking? Don't go Frost! They'll kill the kittens!"


I think it's lowest on DPS in T10 277 gear, but really, they still do decent damage. And if you want to change later, the gearing is pretty similar for all 3 specs, in that Strength and Hit are always most important, by a pretty big margin. The secondaries may change though, and items that are 'close' in power for one spec may not be for another, but if you are wearing your best available str gear in any spec, you won't be too far off the best available to you.

Oh, I fogot, 1 weapon dps is actually worth more than 4 strength, so you pretty much always want the highest dps weapon available, regardless of other stats.

Edit: Looks like my numbers were out of date, but the only real difference is that you should value expertise more at high gear levels. Since you're rarely deciding between expertise and strength, this doesn't really change much.
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.

User avatar
Vyn
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:33 pm UTC

I hate to tell you this mike-I, but you're WAAAAAAY out of date. Frost is right now the highest single target dps for DK's in ICC. And Hit is way better than Str until cap and Exp slightly better than Str til cap. Armor pen, if you have a decent amount, is only a short bit behind Str (don't ever gem for it, but you DEFINITELY want gear with it), and crit is next, followed by haste. And neither of those are bad, they just aren't quite as good as the others.

Also, Lucrece, no Shadowbolt is not confined to Affliction. Shadowbolt is still the main filler spell for Demo. You only incinerate on a molten core proc (and only above 35%). It's a simple priority, keep up Immo and Corr and CoD (or Bane of Doom in 4.0, and Hand whenever Immo gets low) and spam Sbolt until you get a Core proc, then 3 incins. Once the target is under 35% then it's just spamming Soulfire while keeping Immo, Corr and CoD/BoD up (unless the target won't live long enough in which case you just agony instead of doom). For AoE on live you spam Seed, doesn't matter what spec you are, just Seed. And don't tab Curse, that's just a waste, especially in a leveling five man. On the PTR you'll just be spamming Hellfire. On both if your Meta is up then you pop that and cast immo aura and then do one of the aforementioned depending on live or PTR.
I am Jon Stewart with some Colbert cynicism, Thomas Edison's curiousity, wrapped around a hardcore gamer sprinkled very liberally with Deadpool, and finished off with an almost Poison Ivy-esque love/hate relationship with humanity, flourish.

User avatar
Oregonaut
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Oregon

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:39 pm UTC

Wait, so:

Hit > Exp > Str > ArP > Crit > Haste?
- Ochigo the Earth-Stomper

The EGE wrote:
Mumpy wrote:And to this day, librarians revile Oregonaut as the Antichrist.

False! We sacrifice our card catalogues to him in the name of Job Security!

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1264
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:44 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:Some advice I'd like: in instances, I've been throwing up curse of elephants, immolate, incinerate spam for single targets, and for aoe pulls I tab elephants onto all targets, then rain of fire until dead. Is this the right thing to do? Do demo locks ever use metamorphosis in instances?

(I will likely go fire-destro at 80 but just wondering for now)


My advice as a demo lock: the cookie cutter demo spec takes both first tier talents in the destro tree. Assuming you don't sub-spec affliction for leveling utility, incinerate is only better than shadow bolt when molten core is up. If it is, then yes, incinerate away. Unless decimate is up, of course, then you should be using soul fire. Demo spec is really, really proc dependant.

As far as curses go, I generally don't bother with one unless it's something that I expect to live long enough to get a curse of doom to go off on. I never raid without an unholy dk thankfully, so I don't have to worry about CoE.

As far as AoE packs, this may change in 4.0 (I simply don't know one way or the other), but I believe it's been shown that SoC is better that RoF right now, even for destro locks. Certainly I find that going ahead and just spamming SoC is my best dps on aoe packs.

And yes, meta should be used on cooldown unless there's a boss coming up or you're being lazy. I'll confess that I'm often the latter when I'm grinding heroics (need heirloom items for Cata alts...).

mike-l
Posts: 2758
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:20 pm UTC

Vyn wrote:I hate to tell you this mike-I, but you're WAAAAAAY out of date.


Heh, google fails me! Well, listen to Vyn then, I haven't played my DK since 3.1 :)
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.

User avatar
Vyn
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:36 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:Wait, so:

Hit > Exp > Str > ArP > Crit > Haste?

Essentially, but only Hit until cap, Exp until soft cap, and ArP is only better than crit once you have a certain amount, around 35% or so IIRC. After that point it becomes better and once you hit 40-45 it's a lot better. But again, never gem for it like warriors, always gem strength.
I am Jon Stewart with some Colbert cynicism, Thomas Edison's curiousity, wrapped around a hardcore gamer sprinkled very liberally with Deadpool, and finished off with an almost Poison Ivy-esque love/hate relationship with humanity, flourish.

User avatar
meatyochre
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:09 am UTC
Location: flying with the Conchords

Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:55 pm UTC

Thanks for the warlock advice! Some of the stuff I had actually figured out for myself before I checked replies here (a lot has changed since the last time I played her, so I'm combatting my own preconceived notions). I looked at the sbolt and incinerate tooltips and figured out that they have the same cast time but sbolt's damage/mana cost was higher. So I swapped from incinerate to sbolt and saw my dps go up considerably. (I also have recount and shadowbolt was definitely better dps--I just wish incinerate was an even choice because well, who doesn't love bubbly fire?).

My rationale for tab-cursing on aoe pulls was that it would give the tank more of a threat lead (since I just pug lfm and don't know if a given pug tank is any good). But I was still using rain of fire, I'll give seed a try instead.

I already had the top tier destro talents and the lifetap glyph. However, I skipped over decimation, I think it's called (the soulfire execute talent), thinking that I would rarely spend enough time using it since things don't spend a lot of time below 20% hp. Turns out I was wrong and I'll fix that. I thought originally that it worked like the mage fire talent where targets below 20% took additional fire damage%. But I see it's more of a buff that activates on me, and can be used on ANY other target (even if it's at 100%). How exciting!

I also read the tooltip for metamorphosis and was delighted to see that I could continue to use my regular warlocky abilities, plus it was a 20% damage increase! So I've macroed it in with blood fury and my trinkets :)

All in all, I definitely have room to improve. But, after making a few small changes based on common sense and reading of tooltips/recount analysis last night, I saw my dps go from just under tanks to first place in every group, no question. It's pretty nice to do 40% of a group's damage and have the tank or healer ask me to requeue with them (especially when queues are in excess of 20-30 minutes most nights). I'm actually right around 1450 dps at level 74, which is sadly higher than fresh level 80s in most of my healer's heroics... No, I don't understand how it's possible for a level 80 warrior to do 500 dps in a heroic. But I feel good for nearly tripling that number, 6 levels lower :P

**Bonus kudos to whoever created the mod Powerauras. There's a shoop da whoop icon that I really, really love. I have it set up to notify me when lifetap buff or firestone drops off in combat, and I'm going to set a notification for when decimation procs, as well.
Dark567 wrote:"Hey, I created a perpetual motion device"

"yeah, but your poster sucks. F-"

Image

User avatar
Vapour
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:19 am UTC
Location: Forest and Hills Zone.

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vapour » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:35 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:I think it's called (the soulfire execute talent), thinking that I would rarely spend enough time using it since things don't spend a lot of time below 20% hp.


Definitely a raiding talent.

For example. Lich King 25 Heroic has 103 million health.
20% of that is still going to be a lot, 20 600 000 I think. I know being level 74. Endgame bosses are not really things you need to worry about just yet.

Always wanted to roll a warlock, but can't bring myself to level another character.

ProZac
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 3:57 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:55 pm UTC

I plan on reactivating in a couple of weeks to start forming my guild for Cata. In that time, I also plan to finish out my warlock (he's 66 now, I think). Definitely a fun class, especially when you pop meta and round of a ton of enemies to AoE down. I'm also kinda excited at the prospect of leveling a goblin hunter in Cata, so I need to make sure I have all the heirloom gear I need.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:32 pm UTC

I never liked Metamorphosis. The 50pt talent tree toppers with an ability that has a 3m cooldown for a damage boost always sort of bugged me. Doesn't seem like it procs often enough to be useful, doesn't last long enough to be worth it... Then again, I've never fought a boss with 103m HP.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Obby
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
Location: Philadelphia

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Obby » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:37 pm UTC

In 5 mans, it's pretty interesting. A friend of mine does his 5 mans in demo spec, and he has a lot of fun with it. He raids as affliction, though. He hates raiding as the spec.

Kind of like me with my mage. I love doing 5 mans as fire, but I just lose too much DPS if I raid as fire (mostly because I don't have the hit required for it...).
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:46 pm UTC

My enhancement Shammie popped Ghost Puppies as often as possible, and they represent a pretty good damage boost. Once I dual specced to Resto, I was much more impressed with Riptide as a lvl 50 ability. Even Elementals 50 ability is more useful, poof! more mana.

I know it's just part of the rotations, but I've never liked the 3m or 5m cooldowns that provide damage boosts.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

ProZac
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 3:57 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:51 pm UTC

For single target, (which I haven't ever raided or even completed a dungeon on my warlock) I wouldn't think Meta would be much fun. However, Immo aura is great for packs. It's entertaining how quickly that demo warlock becomes the tank that way. As Obby said, probably a 5 man spec, not raid.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1264
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:56 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:Thanks for the warlock advice! Some of the stuff I had actually figured out for myself before I checked replies here (a lot has changed since the last time I played her, so I'm combatting my own preconceived notions). I looked at the sbolt and incinerate tooltips and figured out that they have the same cast time but sbolt's damage/mana cost was higher. So I swapped from incinerate to sbolt and saw my dps go up considerably. (I also have recount and shadowbolt was definitely better dps--I just wish incinerate was an even choice because well, who doesn't love bubbly fire?).

My rationale for tab-cursing on aoe pulls was that it would give the tank more of a threat lead (since I just pug lfm and don't know if a given pug tank is any good). But I was still using rain of fire, I'll give seed a try instead.


I think everyone loves bubbly fire. Well, maybe not affliction warlocks. Let me reiterate that if you're demo spec'd, you DO want to switch from SB to incinerate when you have molten core proc. (If you were deep-destro, you wouldn't use SB at all.) You'll be amazed at just how much damage you pump out on boss fights where you get lucky with a string of those.

As far as aoe pulls go, aoe threat is easy enough in Wrath that you shouldn't have to wait TOO long before opening up, even if you're uncertain about your tank. Personally, I would go the route of dotting up a high-priority target in cases where I was iffy about my tank before going to town. YMMV.

All in all, I definitely have room to improve. But, after making a few small changes based on common sense and reading of tooltips/recount analysis last night, I saw my dps go from just under tanks to first place in every group, no question. It's pretty nice to do 40% of a group's damage and have the tank or healer ask me to requeue with them (especially when queues are in excess of 20-30 minutes most nights). I'm actually right around 1450 dps at level 74, which is sadly higher than fresh level 80s in most of my healer's heroics... No, I don't understand how it's possible for a level 80 warrior to do 500 dps in a heroic. But I feel good for nearly tripling that number, 6 levels lower :P


That sounds about right, iirc. I only leveled my warlock through Wrath a few months ago, and I was amazed at how things had changed. I remember with my first character how being able to pulling over 1k dps was considered a baseline for running Wrath heroics. 1.5k was considered good, and 2k+ was freaking outstanding. With my warlock, things were more like you describe. In fairness, I still run into people playing dps roles that do less than 1k dps in heroics, but they're likely to have something said to them. (Not by me. Heroics are easy enough these days that it's generally not worth fussing about.) Aside from the one guy who was geared entirely in whites (no, seriously, not even greens), it's kind of hard to imagine how they manage to do that though.

User avatar
Vyn
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:48 pm UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:03 pm UTC

Demo works just fine as a raiding spec, especially since it brings one of the most potent raid buffs. That said I can still pull 10k easily on my lock in ICC. Oh and Decimation is any target under 35%, not 20 :)
And Meta is just as awesome for single target as for AoE. Especially combined with Bloodlust/Decimation. Soulfire spam with 20% damage buff for 36 seconds with a 40 second 30% haste buff? YES PLEASE.
I am Jon Stewart with some Colbert cynicism, Thomas Edison's curiousity, wrapped around a hardcore gamer sprinkled very liberally with Deadpool, and finished off with an almost Poison Ivy-esque love/hate relationship with humanity, flourish.

User avatar
Obby
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:37 pm UTC
Location: Philadelphia

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Obby » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:16 pm UTC

Vyn wrote:Demo works just fine as a raiding spec, especially since it brings one of the most potent raid buffs. That said I can still pull 10k easily on my lock in ICC. Oh and Decimation is any target under 35%, not 20 :)
And Meta is just as awesome for single target as for AoE. Especially combined with Bloodlust/Decimation. Soulfire spam with 20% damage buff for 36 seconds with a 40 second 30% haste buff? YES PLEASE.


I can do similar stuff with Arcane Blast spam... Icy Veins (20% haste, no pushback from damage), Arcane Power (20% damage) along with a 200SP/200crit potion alongside Heroism (30% haste)... Yeah, it gets pretty nasty. Especially if my Embrace of the Spider trinket and Ashen Verdict ring proc early on in the cycle (505 haste and 285 SP, respectively), it's not uncommon to start to pull really far away from people in raids. I ended up doing like 15% of the damage to Marrowgar in our 25 man raid on Tuesday doing that. 1 second AB casts that crit for upwards of 30k for a solid 15 seconds... yummy.
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.

User avatar
Lucrece
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:19 pm UTC

BETA INVITE HELL YEAH!

Some friendly guy over a forum I frequent got me and my brother's accounts flagged for beta ~_~.
Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

User avatar
Oregonaut
Posts: 6511
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Oregon

Re: WoWzers!

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:37 pm UTC

I was || close to buying a dual-spec. Then I read that they're dropping the price from 1000g to 100g with Cata. I are now angry that they don't just do it.
- Ochigo the Earth-Stomper

The EGE wrote:
Mumpy wrote:And to this day, librarians revile Oregonaut as the Antichrist.

False! We sacrifice our card catalogues to him in the name of Job Security!


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests