WoWzers!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Cynical Idealist
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Cynical Idealist » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 am UTC

Kag wrote:
mike-l wrote:This is an activity that a lot of people do, and a lot of people try to be good at, and those guys are the best in the entire world, out of millions of people. Give them their due. They aren't the only ones playing crazy hours, but they are the most successful.


Hardly anyone who plays wow is actually competing for world firsts.

And hardly anyone who plays a sport is aiming for the Olympics. What's your point?
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Kag
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Kag » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:18 pm UTC

Cynical Idealist wrote:And hardly anyone who plays a sport is aiming for the Olympics. What's your point?


That competing for world firsts isn't a comparable activity to what most people do, so it's disingenuous to say that they're the best of millions of people.
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Izawwlgood
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:20 pm UTC

Also, world first is less of an achievement in my eyes than, say, doing something that no one else in the world can do.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:49 pm UTC

Kag wrote:
Cynical Idealist wrote:And hardly anyone who plays a sport is aiming for the Olympics. What's your point?


That competing for world firsts isn't a comparable activity to what most people do, so it's disingenuous to say that they're the best of millions of people.


Well it certainly depends on how you qualify best. Generally with raiding, thats kill the boss earliest, thus indicating you generally did it with minimal gear and strats floating around.

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Lostdreams
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lostdreams » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:53 pm UTC

Considering almost all of the bosses are mechanics based only fights, it's basically who can find a team of 10/25 to play DDR the best.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:54 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Also, world first is less of an achievement in my eyes than, say, doing something that no one else in the world can do.

Well, noone else in the world could kill the bosses as fast as they did at the time they could.

And, I firmly believe that if you took me and 24 other players I could hand pick, and took an Ensidia/Paragon/Premonition/etc raid, gave us identical gear, and threw us into a brand new instance that noone had seen before and could be cleared in a reasonable amount of time that my team and I were willing to sit through straight, that Ensidia/Paragon/Premonition/etc would clear it before my team. And I say this having a phenomenally huge WoW ego.
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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:25 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Also, world first is less of an achievement in my eyes than, say, doing something that no one else in the world can do.

Well, Paragon was the only guild to get a world first H-Nef25 kill (not sure about 10 mans), so that's someone no one else can do. Maybe Olympics isn't the greatest metaphor, cause setting a world first is different than setting a record, but still.


Now that my guild has started raiding, I wish we were better at raiding. Banged our head against Magmaw, and then against Omnotron. some undergeared healers crippled us for omnotron; a lack of ranged dps (besides one survival hunter who is like whooooo-damn-you-are-good) screwed with us on magmaw.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:47 pm UTC

Consider it more like a race. Sure, everyone in it is eventually going to complete the 100m dash, but only one can claim victory/be the fastest. That's your world firsts.
Midnight wrote:Now that my guild has started raiding, I wish we were better at raiding. Banged our head against Magmaw, and then against Omnotron. some undergeared healers crippled us for omnotron; a lack of ranged dps (besides one survival hunter who is like whooooo-damn-you-are-good) screwed with us on magmaw.

Sounds about the way I feel. We're getting places though, as Conclave died. Worked on Halfus a bit. I couple terribad dps hold us back I feel, and we've a new healer that is still in the learning phase a bit. Even so, he's keeping pace and shows promise. It'll also help that one of our best dps (a marks hunter) decided "As much as I like marks and not survival, I need to try the switch" and increased his dps by 3k while still screwing up the rotation from time to time.

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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

Survival hunters are way op. I have never NOT seen them top charts, be it in PuGs or on Paragon-world-first videos. They're getting two big nerfs (-25% damage to two of their shots) and one huge one (improved serpent sting is only spread to 4 targets per multishot, instead of every target). That serpent sting spreading is the reason they had such insane AoE potential. They probably did similar AoE to a fire mage but with way better single target.

I'm really glad for some of the warrior changes (specifically the inner calm one, and that Charge stun will not count for diminishing returns if you're prot.) Mastery being buffed for fury is good too, cause I really LIKE mastery for fury (but that's cause I like huge raging blow critzz), though I wish fury's mastery affected more than Raging Blow and Death Wish. It adds a few points of rage every 30 seconds for Berserker Rage, so that's pretty much nil.
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Lucrece
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:21 am UTC

Hurray, server first 25man Cho'gall kill. I lost the shoulders to some damn pally and priest, though *shakes fist*

I just want to see what warlock buffs they will put in to compensate for the removal of Improved Soul Fire.


Also, way to kill feral PvP by changing shapeshifts to no longer remove roots lolololololol bye bye feral pvp.
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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:48 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:Hurray, server first 25man Cho'gall kill. I lost the shoulders to some damn pally and priest, though *shakes fist*

I just want to see what warlock buffs they will put in to compensate for the removal of Improved Soul Fire.


Also, way to kill feral PvP by changing shapeshifts to no longer remove roots lolololololol bye bye feral pvp.

It's an odd balance choice, seeing as that's been around since... at a guess, patch 1.4 or 1.5. Ever since pvp became more formalized. Weird that we've had ten arena seasons or whatever and now they say "meh the shifting thing is OP."
ESPECIALLY because all kinds of CC and stuff got changed to 8 seconds in PvP (hamstring and polymorph come to mind.)

In general, however, I don't quite know how I feel about pve versus pvp balance. I mean, I think it's great that WoW has so many options--fantastic, actually; the best thing about it--and I think it's good that some moves need to be just DIFFERENT, such as polymorph being a minute in PvE and eight seconds in PvP. The Cheat Death change from years ago also comes to mind. Every single hotfix/patch, cheat death was tooled around with to be balanced for E/P. After a point though (and I'm not sure where that point is), if more moves get two different applications if it's E or P, then it's practically two different games. Well, even more of two different games than it already is.
I theorize that HP was buffed so dramatically in this xpack, whilst DPS was not buffed nearly so, to balance the two branches better. I mean, you can adjust boss numbers for player HP easily, but by making PvP a bit less bursty, you can have less "Ability X does Y in PvE; Z in PvP." I'm not sure how well that's ACTUALLY working though, if they are adding "PvP durations" to CC.
I'd like Rated Battlegrounds to get a bit more popular, so PvP balance didn't mean Arena balance. But then that might create a whole nother host of issues.



Random thought: I seem intrinsically incapable of making a unified point, especially when it comes to this damnable game.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:11 am UTC

ProZac wrote:Consider it more like a race. Sure, everyone in it is eventually going to complete the 100m dash, but only one can claim victory/be the fastest. That's your world firsts.

No, I actually think you guys are comparing what is effectively finishing a race, to writing a novel or discovering something. These guilds are doing something neat in that they finish first, but it's not a particularly spellbinding achievement given that everyone in the world can ALSO do it.

The 100m dash isn't a race because eventually everyone finishes, it's a race because Usain Bolt makes us all look slow when he zooms across the finish line. These guilds aren't finishing the raids in record time, they're just finishing them first. Kudos to them for doing that, but it really isn't comparable to the Olympics, and I'm saying that as someone who hates the bejeezus out of most Olympic events.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:45 am UTC

Fel Armor now increases the warlock's maximum mana by 10% instead of regenerating health.
Felstorm (Felguard) damage has been reduced by 20%.
Immolation Aura damage has been reduced by roughly 30%.
Improved soulfire now T3.


Well goddamn. HUGE nerfs for demonology, and the other specs are boring. Goodbye, warlock.
To expand a little: in pve, demo warlocks become mages with less utility, less dps, that also kill themselves while casting, and can only get health back with death coil or healthstone (or drain life, hahaha). I can feel the group kicks already.
In pvp... oh god what
Last edited by Menacing Spike on Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:10 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Midnight
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:47 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:No, I actually think you guys are comparing what is effectively finishing a race, to writing a novel or discovering something. These guilds are doing something neat in that they finish first, but it's not a particularly spellbinding achievement given that everyone in the world can ALSO do it.

It's not particularly spellbinding to run 100m, and it's not particularly spellbinding to kill a boss. It is spellbinding that they do it better than anyone. Nearly anyone CAN defeat Heroic Nefarian, and nearly anyone CAN run 100m, but it's the best of the best that do it faster than everyone else.
The 100m dash isn't a race because eventually everyone finishes, it's a race because Usain Bolt makes us all look slow when he zooms across the finish line. These guilds aren't finishing the raids in record time, they're just finishing them first. Kudos to them for doing that, but it really isn't comparable to the Olympics, and I'm saying that as someone who hates the bejeezus out of most Olympic events.

Just like Paragon makes us all look slow when they get all the world firsts. Kudos to Usain Bolt running faster than I ever can, and kudos to Paragon for raiding faster than I ever can.


BUT I did mention earlier that I don't think the race metaphor is particularly excellent. it's better than writing a book, though.


The best metaphor is mountain climbing. Paragon was the first to climb Everest. It's a task that few succeed at, and they did it first.
Last edited by Midnight on Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:50 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vapour » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:49 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:Also, way to kill feral PvP by changing shapeshifts to no longer remove roots lolololololol bye bye feral pvp.


:cry:

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:14 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Hurray, server first 25man Cho'gall kill. I lost the shoulders to some damn pally and priest, though *shakes fist*

Wow... slow server. But still way ahead of my guild, so props! Hopefully we'll get to pull an endboss this Sunday, but I'm not super optimistic about it, as we've got Valiona and Theralion up still, (but we downed them last week), and then Acendent Council and Chimeron are up and have never been pulled.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:27 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Hurray, server first 25man Cho'gall kill. I lost the shoulders to some damn pally and priest, though *shakes fist*

Wow... slow server. But still way ahead of my guild, so props! Hopefully we'll get to pull an endboss this Sunday, but I'm not super optimistic about it, as we've got Valiona and Theralion up still, (but we downed them last week), and then Acendent Council and Chimeron are up and have never been pulled.


Everyone went 10man with this xpac on our server, so we're like 2 of the 25man raiding guilds lol.

It's mostly a casual/pvp server (Proudmoore, LGBT friendly server), and we raid 3 times a week for 4 hours-- not hardcore by any means.

But if it means anything, we got Cho'gall down on our 10th attempt, only wortth 2 days of raiding. Since it's been holidays, we've also been 22-23 manning 25man content quite often.

I love my guild, and with 12 hour shifts all 7 days of the week because I ended up with an outstanding balance to a university that will not let me enroll in any other schools by refusing to release my transcripts until I pay off their 9k debt, it's not like I can afford much of a raiding schedule nowadays.

But yeah, I'll be honest that raiding is not a great priority and I'm just there for social reasons and wanting to see the story (since for some reason lore is entirely absent in PvP in this game). I'm a good raider, but for my current circumstances I'll admit my hardcore raiding days are behind me for now.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:15 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Hurray, server first 25man Cho'gall kill. I lost the shoulders to some damn pally and priest, though *shakes fist*

Wow... slow server. But still way ahead of my guild, so props! Hopefully we'll get to pull an endboss this Sunday, but I'm not super optimistic about it, as we've got Valiona and Theralion up still, (but we downed them last week), and then Acendent Council and Chimeron are up and have never been pulled.

Council is a pain in the ass fight to tank, dps AND heal. It's just plain annoying all around. And ya need a pretty hefty amount of dps to beat his soft enrage when they go all Voltron on you.
Chimaeron... now that fight is hilarious fun on a bear tank (which is my current main) because vengeance stacks fast and you basically stand there and occasionally taunt switch but other than that focus on dps/threat. It's mostly fun because you tank 200-250k hits with Break on you without dying. 'Course, you're the first one to die in phase 2, but w/e. We ended up getting the raid achievement for him due to a really lucky dodge string on me and a dodge/parry string on our OT pally on our first kill.

Got everyone else except for Nef who we should get tonight. And Nef is... well, a pain. He and Ony both hit like trucks, their Shadowflame breath is nutty and you have to tank them at least 60 yards apart. On ten man it's kinda difficult to manage to get the two dragons with their big ass hitboxes 60 yards apart while having the tanks be in range of the healers as you only have 3 and can't really split them up. But that's not really the hard part. The hard part is... Jumping on a ledge! Yes. Jumping onto the platforms when the magma rises before it+the mob on said platform blastwaves you+Nef shadowflame burst aoe. It's hard. It really is. And it's incredibly annoying.

EDIT: @Lucrece. WoW has LGBT friendly servers? Damn... wouldn't have expected that with the rampant amount of little kids/immature morons/homophobes that play. Cool to know.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:35 am UTC

Proudmoore is basically where the WoW GLBTA (A for Ally) community has rallied. Stonewall Champions on Alliance, Taint on horde. You have no idea how nice it is to be on a progression guild where "faggot" or using "gay" as a pejorative basically just doesn't happen. It's like way back when I was in high school and we had this LGBT support group that did a field trip to Parrot Jungle for a GLSEN convention, and to be in a bus full of people like yourself with no slurs or hostile environment just felt like a dream, which only made it so sad when the next day you had to go back to normal angst.

Taint particularly is HUGE. We have different branches, but I'm in Taint Invaders for progression raiding. We got Al'Akir tonight and on Monday we do Nef.

After that, hurray Dark Phoenix mount (in like a month when I get exalted guild rep XD) ;D~
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:13 pm UTC

Huh. Interesting. Glad to hear there's something like that on ANY video game, especially an MMO. (I'd hope there'd be one for FPS's but that might be a bit optimistic).
Also, gratz on Al'Akir! After we got him we said "Fuck that boss, we'll do him again once on heroic and that's it." Just such an annoying fight.
Enjoying Nef. 1.4% last night. The friggin ledge/jump phase is pretty much the hardest part of the fight. Once you have everyone make the jump and start interrupts it's pretty easy. But the initial is really bad because one interrupter not getting to the top instantly for that first interrupt kinda screws you because the blastwave+shadowflame barrage+magma damage is pretty much guarenteed to kill people.

EDIT: Also, fuck the retarded guild rep grind and DOUBLE fuck it for the fact it's not account wide. It takes waaaay to frickin long to level guild rep on every alt. Hell it takes forever on just your main.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

Is there any reason to grind up on multiple alts? The recipe's aren't BoP are they? The mounts aren't that big of deal, I guess?

Lastnight was the first good WoW night i've had all week. After a slew of only taking out 1-3 bosses per dungeon before everyone ragequits, and feeling like I was basically slowly, painfully converting gold to JP at a 5:1 ratio, lastnight I picked up a new helm from the vendor, got a boot, necklace, and bracer heroic drop, AND have that Hyjal helm enchant... So... hopefully things are a bit better.

Unfortunately, my spirit is still stupidly low (1700), and at virtually every boss fight I run oom. Sometimes, especially with a Pallie tank helping out a bit, it happens late enough that we can scrape by and finish the fight, but if DPS is lackluster and the tank hasn't held aggro well... Yeah, wipeskies.

Lately I've been in the habit of queuing as DPS anyway, and while I'm not topping charts, I'm doing 7-9k total by the end of the run, which as a shammie providing group buffs + CC and interupts, I feel is pretty solid. I just want to get to the point where I'm putting out more than 5k hps and tapping out halfway through a fight.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

This early into the expac and I feel like I'm already done with heroics. There's still some gear upgrades, valor points to earn, rep to get and such, but having only run each 2-3 times, I just don't feel up for it. Assuming full (good) guild group, I can expect it to take about 45 min to an hour. If I have to pug a few people? I'm expecting it to be more like 2 hours. The challenge was nice the first few times, and there are some pretty interesting heroics, but in the end, I just want to get in and get out. Guild also usually wants me to tank, and while I have a full set of feral tank gear, the few times I've done it went fairly terrible. I'm probably just doing something wrong, but I feel like my aoe threat/damage is atrocious, and my initial threat build up is slow. Seems like we're really gimped in the ways of getting a decent amount of starting rage, since our options are increase damage taken by 10%, or shapeshift for 10 rage (which isn't enough for anything).
Izawwlgood wrote:Lately I've been in the habit of queuing as DPS anyway, and while I'm not topping charts, I'm doing 7-9k total by the end of the run, which as a shammie providing group buffs + CC and interupts, I feel is pretty solid. I just want to get to the point where I'm putting out more than 5k hps and tapping out halfway through a fight.
Definitely respectable imo. 9k about where I start thinking "hey, they're doing fairly good". 7k is about where I stop thinking "I wonder if we could vote kick them".

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:30 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:This early into the expac and I feel like I'm already done with heroics. There's still some gear upgrades, valor points to earn, rep to get and such, but having only run each 2-3 times, I just don't feel up for it. Assuming full (good) guild group, I can expect it to take about 45 min to an hour. If I have to pug a few people? I'm expecting it to be more like 2 hours. The challenge was nice the first few times, and there are some pretty interesting heroics, but in the end, I just want to get in and get out. Guild also usually wants me to tank, and while I have a full set of feral tank gear, the few times I've done it went fairly terrible. I'm probably just doing something wrong, but I feel like my aoe threat/damage is atrocious, and my initial threat build up is slow. Seems like we're really gimped in the ways of getting a decent amount of starting rage, since our options are increase damage taken by 10%, or shapeshift for 10 rage (which isn't enough for anything).
Izawwlgood wrote:Lately I've been in the habit of queuing as DPS anyway, and while I'm not topping charts, I'm doing 7-9k total by the end of the run, which as a shammie providing group buffs + CC and interupts, I feel is pretty solid. I just want to get to the point where I'm putting out more than 5k hps and tapping out halfway through a fight.
Definitely respectable imo. 9k about where I start thinking "hey, they're doing fairly good". 7k is about where I stop thinking "I wonder if we could vote kick them".


I'm definitely at the "1 a day for points" stage already. Heroics are trivialized with the gear from them, which is a reasonable model. They are challenging with the gear you can get beforehand, and that's all I really wanted. My regular group clears most of them in 20-30 minutes with some exceptions (eg deadmines) so it's not that big a hassle anyway.

What I hate about randoms is not that their dps is low, it's the general slowness of everything. If your healer has close to full mana and the party is topped off, you should be pulling. And we seem to have swung completely the other way on CC, now randoms CC absolutely everything and really slow themselves down. If your healer is OOMing every trash pull, then yeah, CC more. But don't CC just for the sake of CC - it reduces incoming damage but also reduces outgoing damage of cleaves, causes the pull to take longer to set up and execute, forces the tank to get snap threat multiple times during the fight instead of just once, etc.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:40 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:This early into the expac and I feel like I'm already done with heroics. There's still some gear upgrades, valor points to earn, rep to get and such, but having only run each 2-3 times, I just don't feel up for it. Assuming full (good) guild group, I can expect it to take about 45 min to an hour. If I have to pug a few people? I'm expecting it to be more like 2 hours. The challenge was nice the first few times, and there are some pretty interesting heroics, but in the end, I just want to get in and get out. Guild also usually wants me to tank, and while I have a full set of feral tank gear, the few times I've done it went fairly terrible. I'm probably just doing something wrong, but I feel like my aoe threat/damage is atrocious, and my initial threat build up is slow. Seems like we're really gimped in the ways of getting a decent amount of starting rage, since our options are increase damage taken by 10%, or shapeshift for 10 rage (which isn't enough for anything).
Izawwlgood wrote:Lately I've been in the habit of queuing as DPS anyway, and while I'm not topping charts, I'm doing 7-9k total by the end of the run, which as a shammie providing group buffs + CC and interupts, I feel is pretty solid. I just want to get to the point where I'm putting out more than 5k hps and tapping out halfway through a fight.
Definitely respectable imo. 9k about where I start thinking "hey, they're doing fairly good". 7k is about where I stop thinking "I wonder if we could vote kick them".

You feel like your aoe threat as a bear is atrocious because it IS atrocious. Bear aoe threat right now is far and away the worst aoe threat of all tanks. It's laughable how bad it is. As for single target how are you having difficulty with snap threat? 1 Mangle and I produce over 30k threat, 60k if I crit. Our single target tps is the highest of all tanks by far, as well as our single target dps (I was pulling about 10-11k on Nef, vengeance and being an agi bear ftw). Best I've pulled is about 14k though single target. And for initial rage you should Enrage before the pull, but the 10% increased damage really isn't that bad, especially not in a heroic. And demo roar cancels it out anyway.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:42 pm UTC

I'm fine not CCing when the tank has the hp buffer for it, but as a healer, I think CC is clutch when I'm healing you from 20% to 80% every 5-6s. It's not MY issue at that point, it's the tanks.

I've heard some people talk about how heroics are easysauce, and I'm not seeing in; as far as I'm concerned, based on the general stupidity of WoW players and the ease of WotLK runs, they're actually quite difficult.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby ProZac » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:04 pm UTC

It's mostly just inexperience probably, but it's nice to know the our AoE is in the shitter. Enraging before pulling just feels like "doing it wrong" due to the increased damage, so I avoided it. All my threat issues single target came from going in and not getting much off before one of the dps jumped the gun and stole threat, which hurt rage gen more. It's just annoying when I can compare to tanking on my warrior, where I have a free rage gen, and charge generates rage, not uses it.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:16 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm fine not CCing when the tank has the hp buffer for it, but as a healer, I think CC is clutch when I'm healing you from 20% to 80% every 5-6s. It's not MY issue at that point, it's the tanks.

I've heard some people talk about how heroics are easysauce, and I'm not seeing in; as far as I'm concerned, based on the general stupidity of WoW players and the ease of WotLK runs, they're actually quite difficult.


Yeah, the gist of my post is 'Use CC when it's helpful, don't when it's not', people just assume it's always helpful. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Heroics are easy if a) you have decent gear (340+ ilvl, 350 pretty much trivializes) and b) your group is paying attention. Hey this mob has a long cast that hits the tank for 90k, maybe I should interrupt, etc. Randoms rarely have the latter, and the former is pretty based on luck.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:24 pm UTC

The first time I successfully healed a heroic on my shammie was when I had an ilvl of 340, but the tank was a paladin who dropped some self heals. Presently, at 346 or 347, I still occasionally can't heal a group if the tanks sort of squishy or if the dps is lackluster and the fight drags on.

Maybe I just haven't gotten the gyst of resto in cata, but compared to a Holy priest that I ran with lastnight who at ilvl 344 was never oom, and able to keep the entire group above 60% even with 15-16 stacks on Karsh... I dunno, maybe I do just suck at healing with my shammie now. Or maybe Holy is awesomely op'd for heals.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby mike-l » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:28 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The first time I successfully healed a heroic on my shammie was when I had an ilvl of 340, but the tank was a paladin who dropped some self heals. Presently, at 346 or 347, I still occasionally can't heal a group if the tanks sort of squishy or if the dps is lackluster and the fight drags on.

Maybe I just haven't gotten the gyst of resto in cata, but compared to a Holy priest that I ran with lastnight who at ilvl 344 was never oom, and able to keep the entire group above 60% even with 15-16 stacks on Karsh... I dunno, maybe I do just suck at healing with my shammie now. Or maybe Holy is awesomely op'd for heals.


I haven't tried healing on a shammy yet, but though I definitely had some mana issues around the 330 level on my druid, there really wasn't any point where I just could not heal an instance if things were executed properly. I did fail to heal few times at first because dps stood in way too much stuff and I would go OOM healing them, but now that I'm in 352 level gear I can keep people up through tons of avoidable damage, as long as it's not gib damage.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:48 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:The first time I successfully healed a heroic on my shammie was when I had an ilvl of 340, but the tank was a paladin who dropped some self heals. Presently, at 346 or 347, I still occasionally can't heal a group if the tanks sort of squishy or if the dps is lackluster and the fight drags on.

Maybe I just haven't gotten the gyst of resto in cata, but compared to a Holy priest that I ran with lastnight who at ilvl 344 was never oom, and able to keep the entire group above 60% even with 15-16 stacks on Karsh... I dunno, maybe I do just suck at healing with my shammie now. Or maybe Holy is awesomely op'd for heals.


I haven't tried healing on a shammy yet, but though I definitely had some mana issues around the 330 level on my druid, there really wasn't any point where I just could not heal an instance if things were executed properly. I did fail to heal few times at first because dps stood in way too much stuff and I would go OOM healing them, but now that I'm in 352 level gear I can keep people up through tons of avoidable damage, as long as it's not gib damage.

Well honestly...
This is because Shaman and Druids are mathematically the most underpowered of the two healing classes and also the worst scaling. Priests and Pallies are ridiculous right now and unless there are changes (and some are coming) then the gap is actually going to increase as gear increases.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:49 pm UTC

9k is good for an ele shaman, ele shaman dps right now unfortunately is terrible and has poor scaling. In our raid we top dps are pulling 18-23k dps while the ele shaman is constantly at 14k at best.

I find the whole guild leveling/rep leveling/rewards to be a fucked up thing maliciously designed to drain gold out of players. Those rewards basically are alt rewards, because you'll be in hard modes by the time cauldrons and happy hour are available. I see a good 2 months to exalted guild rep at this pace, which is absurd.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:25 am UTC

Lucrece, I just had a guild drama moment that reminded me of you, entirely, the whole way through. You wrote about that crafter who tried to rip you off in guild, and I had a similar experience; spoilered for irrelevant typical internet bullshit.

Spoiler:
About two weeks ago, a guild officer offered, out of no where, to make me an Elementium Stormshield, all I had to do was get 3x truegold bars and he'd take care of the rest. I thought that was pretty cool, and offered, a number of times, to toss him cash for the orbs, or get him elementium bars. He refused! He said it was no big deal, that getting a healer up to snuff was more important.

So cool, I think that's neat. I didn't get anything else from the guild, ever, either from vault or from other members. I do JC cuts at cost of mats, inscription for cost of mats, never charge guildies for the craft itself.

So this dude asks in gchat for an inscriptionist for three glyphs. I can do two. I switch toons, and offer him the two for 20% off AH. The officer gets pissy and says "I didn't charge you anything for that shield". So I correct him, saying he charged me the cost of the truegold bars. This escalates, and finally the officer tells me not to expect anything from the guild ever again, because I wasn't giving shit for free to guildies.

So, what the fuck, do people in WoW not realize that farming materials and putting them in your vault does NOT mean giving them away is a zero cost endeavor to you? Like, if I spend an hour mining and have 40 elementium ore, and someone needs 20 elementium ore, and elementium ore is 8g on the AH, if I give him 20 elementium ore, I just gave him 160g. Stuff you farm yourself isn't free! Fucking idiots.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:22 am UTC

I crafted a Dreamless Belt today and was advertising to sell it in trade chat. It sells from 8-10k usually, but someone whispered me 7500g and I agreed. As we were to meet up, he told me he got a dungeon pop, and to Cash on Delivery mailt it to him, that he'd pay after he got out. He has yet to pay 5 hours later and went offline after logging back on some time ago and ignoring my tells asking if he got my mail.

Sadly I suspect the bastard was just competition that tricked me in order to hold my belt hostage before it autoreturns to me in 3 days, and he can sell his own belt with less competition. I've opened a ticket but from what snooty people in the customer service forums tell me, it's not considered an offense to do that and that the GM's won't do a thing. I'm still keeping my ticket open.

I'm now at 1200g and I was really hoping for that belt to sell this weekend to buy 3 maelstrom crystals for my enchant and have spare gold for consumables in Monday's raid.


I really hate this game's shitty community.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby meatyochre » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:59 am UTC

High ilvl gear only trivializes a dungeon if everyone has it. Unfortunately pugs never have as good of gear as I do (ilvl 349, tuned mostly toward regen as a holy priest). I do miss the days of being able to carry a bad heroic group with my epic heals, but I appreciate that everyone (it seems) is running recount now, most people are ccing regularly, and groups are more willing to kick the worst dps instead of blaming the healer for everything.

Unfortunately, it seems like people in my guild are worse at dungeons than puggers. Their dps is better, but their concept of group play is negligible. I managed to finish a H Lost City pug in decent time last night with zero wipes, and one of our members wasn't even breaking 5k dps... I don't know how. Really bad player I guess. The tank was topping dps, sadly. But still, even that was better than when I do heroics with my guild. Where baddies still don't think they need to cc, that great heals can carry them through shit play, and pull aggro every single pull. Q_Q

oh and don't take care of their hp by eating FREE mage cakes between pulls. No, no, we must all run ahead to the next pull and stand around picking our asses while the healer drinks, catches up, heals us all to full, and drinks again.

That is the WORST.
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Lucrece, I am sorry that happened to you, but take care of yourself first. Never COD to strangers. Do CODs really return in 3 days? Because I thought it was 30.
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I had some delightful drama of my own when a guildmate was using my truegold cds (for free) 4 days in a row. Which is cool, I was the first max alch in my guild and I don't mind helping out guildies at a cost to not selling cds in trade. When I asked him what he was planning to make with the truegold I was making him, he said he was selling them on the auction house.

WHAT
THE
FUCK?

Anyway, I told him unceremoniously that it would not continue. I told the gm about it. And that was that, I didn't make a stink in gchat and he's still a member. But come on, that is so fucking slimy... and this was a guy that I thought was pretty cool. Now I found out he has like 50k gold while I'm still scraping my way up from 10k to make myself the alchemy mount. My blood still boils over that a bit.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Vyn » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:03 am UTC

meatyochre wrote:High ilvl gear only trivializes a dungeon if everyone has it. Unfortunately pugs never have as good of gear as I do (ilvl 349, tuned mostly toward regen as a holy priest). I do miss the days of being able to carry a bad heroic group with my epic heals, but I appreciate that everyone (it seems) is running recount now, most people are ccing regularly, and groups are more willing to kick the worst dps instead of blaming the healer for everything.

Unfortunately, it seems like people in my guild are worse at dungeons than puggers. Their dps is better, but their concept of group play is negligible. I managed to finish a H Lost City pug in decent time last night with zero wipes, and one of our members wasn't even breaking 5k dps... I don't know how. Really bad player I guess. The tank was topping dps, sadly. But still, even that was better than when I do heroics with my guild. Where baddies still don't think they need to cc, that great heals can carry them through shit play, and pull aggro every single pull. Q_Q

oh and don't take care of their hp by eating FREE mage cakes between pulls. No, no, we must all run ahead to the next pull and stand around picking our asses while the healer drinks, catches up, heals us all to full, and drinks again.

That is the WORST.
--
Lucrece, I am sorry that happened to you, but take care of yourself first. Never COD to strangers. Do CODs really return in 3 days? Because I thought it was 30.
--
I had some delightful drama of my own when a guildmate was using my truegold cds (for free) 4 days in a row. Which is cool, I was the first max alch in my guild and I don't mind helping out guildies at a cost to not selling cds in trade. When I asked him what he was planning to make with the truegold I was making him, he said he was selling them on the auction house.

WHAT
THE
FUCK?

Anyway, I told him unceremoniously that it would not continue. I told the gm about it. And that was that, I didn't make a stink in gchat and he's still a member. But come on, that is so fucking slimy... and this was a guy that I thought was pretty cool. Now I found out he has like 50k gold while I'm still scraping my way up from 10k to make myself the alchemy mount. My blood still boils over that a bit.

Ouch man. Wasting truegold CD's is annoying.
If you're low on gold though (and 10k is waaaaaay low) and you're an alchemist... flasks. Farm and make flasks. They're selling like crack candy right now.
That and just raw herbs and DMC decks. I can't say about your server but on mine a stack of Whiptail or Jasmine is still 300g+ and a DMC deck is 20k. Flasks of the wind and mind are both 400-500g+ though the other two less so.
Dreamcloth/epic leg enchants are 800-1k as well.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:50 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:High ilvl gear only trivializes a dungeon if everyone has it. Unfortunately pugs never have as good of gear as I do (ilvl 349, tuned mostly toward regen as a holy priest). I do miss the days of being able to carry a bad heroic group with my epic heals, but I appreciate that everyone (it seems) is running recount now, most people are ccing regularly, and groups are more willing to kick the worst dps instead of blaming the healer for everything.

Unfortunately, it seems like people in my guild are worse at dungeons than puggers. Their dps is better, but their concept of group play is negligible. I managed to finish a H Lost City pug in decent time last night with zero wipes, and one of our members wasn't even breaking 5k dps... I don't know how. Really bad player I guess. The tank was topping dps, sadly. But still, even that was better than when I do heroics with my guild. Where baddies still don't think they need to cc, that great heals can carry them through shit play, and pull aggro every single pull. Q_Q

oh and don't take care of their hp by eating FREE mage cakes between pulls. No, no, we must all run ahead to the next pull and stand around picking our asses while the healer drinks, catches up, heals us all to full, and drinks again.

That is the WORST.
--
Lucrece, I am sorry that happened to you, but take care of yourself first. Never COD to strangers. Do CODs really return in 3 days? Because I thought it was 30.
--
I had some delightful drama of my own when a guildmate was using my truegold cds (for free) 4 days in a row. Which is cool, I was the first max alch in my guild and I don't mind helping out guildies at a cost to not selling cds in trade. When I asked him what he was planning to make with the truegold I was making him, he said he was selling them on the auction house.

WHAT
THE
FUCK?

Anyway, I told him unceremoniously that it would not continue. I told the gm about it. And that was that, I didn't make a stink in gchat and he's still a member. But come on, that is so fucking slimy... and this was a guy that I thought was pretty cool. Now I found out he has like 50k gold while I'm still scraping my way up from 10k to make myself the alchemy mount. My blood still boils over that a bit.


I've found that the people with lots of gold were usually not nice about collecting their little fortune. I don't even know why you would need a fucking economy in the game other than to create greater time sinks, but oh well.

And just when I spent my 4k justice points on heirlooms they announce making crafting items available by jp vendors. At least my worgen spriest looks like a total cutie though.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:I don't even know why you would need a fucking economy in the game other than to create greater time sinks, but oh well.

If you don't need an economy, they should just take out crafting altogether.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Lucrece » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:40 pm UTC

Crafting itself is just that, a time sink.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:21 pm UTC

I mean, everything in the game sort of is. If you're going to strip it down to just constituent game components, there's a lot of stuff to remove.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Midnight » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:08 pm UTC

...everything in the game sort of is?
If you remove the "amusing-to-some-people time sinks", there wouldn't be a game.
uhhhh fuck.


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