Left 4 Dead: 2!

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Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Awia » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:08 pm UTC

Left 4 Dead 2 has been announced, or as I prefer to call it, "Back 4 more"

So, why release a whole new game instead of going with the TF2 way of releasing new things?

Edit: Oh, and here is a trailer.
Edit2: Just announced on steam.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby aion7 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:20 pm UTC

GArARARARAGH!

What the fuck, Valve? Whatever happened to supporting your games for years before sequeling them? I probably won't get it because of the short gap between the release of the first and it.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby netcrusher88 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:35 pm UTC

Watch the trailer starting at about 0:30. I swear the second zombie that goes down (about :34) is Zoey.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby SoapyHobo » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:38 pm UTC

There are a couple of gameplay videos up here.

It doesn't look much different to the original and, being honest, looks like it could easily have been set for release as DLC rather than a sequel. That's not to say it doesn't look enjoyable and improved upon, merely that it looks like someone has decided somewhere along the line that this update is going to be upgraded and released as a new product.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:40 pm UTC

Relax. If it takes as long as TF2, L4D will be made completely obsolete before they even decide on a visual style.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby SoapyHobo » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:41 pm UTC

Yeah, if the development of this game were anything at all like TF2, which it isn't.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby aion7 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:48 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Relax. If it takes as long as TF2, L4D will be made completely obsolete before they even decide on a visual style.

They said November of this year.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ArchangelShrike » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:56 pm UTC

From a modder's point of view:
The amount of content that's being packed in is somewhat staggering. The biggest reasons why it'd possibly be turned into a stand-alone sequel are the number of gameplay changes that would wreck hell on balancing the current campaigns/maps/soon-to-be-released maps by the community. Not being able to use molotovs on biosuited zombies? Melee weapons instead of current attack? New Infected that could rip up teams of survivors in the current maps? Balancing all the campaigns to include such content would take just as much time as making a new game, and they'd still be limited, so they made a sequel with all of their ideas.

Also, as has been pointed out in other areas, the engine looks... nicer. This may be the next Source Engine, or it might simply be on top of the line hardware, but it looks much better than my L4D looks right now. Or console limitations - the space on harddrives, since Valve is also publishing their games for X360.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Still, with the ridiculously short length of time between the games, I'll be miffed if there isn't at least a discount.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ArchangelShrike » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:34 am UTC

I'd be pissed if they got me to buy it for more than 30 dollars. It's an incremental upgrade, allowing all of the ideas they locked up to go free, but it's not justified in buying it for 50-60. Even if I will, because I lurv zombie killing.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jesse » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:38 am UTC

I'll probably wait until a bargain weekend, but I'll be picking it up.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ajbleck » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:21 am UTC

WTF valve? I am not buying this right after it comes out. This should be a free update not a whole new game. It's less than a year after the game came out and you have a sequel? where is episode 3 and portal 2?
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Gojoe » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:30 am UTC

Does it suck? Yes, more updates would be nice, and I do not want to lose out on playing with half the user base, just because a bunch of people have not picked it up yet.

Will I buy it? Hells yes, I love me some l4d.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:45 am UTC

Gojoe wrote:Does it suck? Yes, more updates would be nice, and I do not want to lose out on playing with half the user base, just because a bunch of people have not picked it up yet.

Will I buy it? Hells yes, I love me some l4d.

Yeah. And great, you can get to New Orleans just in time to get smacked in the face by a hurricane.

Though, did they really need to make it even easier for team kick the shit out of pubs to melee through the map while walking?

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Naurgul » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:45 am UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:I'd be pissed if they got me to buy it for more than 30 dollars. It's an incremental upgrade, allowing all of the ideas they locked up to go free, but it's not justified in buying it for 50-60.
Actually, a price-tag of 50-60 is justified. The problem is, it would make the original seem like a huge rip-off in comparison. Also, many people thought L4D was lacking in content but decided to get it regardless because they assumed it would get regular updates. Finally, it looks like an incremental update (not much different from the stuff they release for free for TF2), except for the new campaign. It's pretty surprising that Valve can make a whole new campaign so fast. The whole thing feels like an expansion pack with an extended campaign mode, though. Not a move I would expect from Valve.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ArchangelShrike » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:58 am UTC

Naurgul wrote:
ArchangelShrike wrote:I'd be pissed if they got me to buy it for more than 30 dollars. It's an incremental upgrade, allowing all of the ideas they locked up to go free, but it's not justified in buying it for 50-60.
Actually, a price-tag of 50-60 is justified. The problem is, it would make the original seem like a huge rip-off in comparison. Also, many people thought L4D was lacking in content but decided to get it regardless because they assumed it would get regular updates. Finally, it looks like an incremental update (not much different from the stuff they release for free for TF2), except for the new campaign. It's pretty surprising that Valve can make a whole new campaign so fast. The whole thing feels like an expansion pack with an extended campaign mode, though. Not a move I would expect from Valve.

In that train of thought, yes. More and more it feels like L4D was the tech demo, a chance to try the stripped down basics and see if it could work, and lo and behold, it does. Now they can go crazy and input all the ideas they wanted to do, but weren't sure would work. A great way of dealing with this would be to find who has L4D already and offer L4D2 at say 0-10-20 dollars, comparable to TF2 today, and anyone that doesn't have L4D, the whole bundle at 80-100 (not including discounts), or L4D2 for the original retail price of 50-60, whatever it was. They already have a system to do that (Steam), and they've allowed us to give away games before (Orange Box/HL2), so it shouldn't be hard to give those of us with L4D a discount.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:12 am UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:so it shouldn't be hard to give those of us with L4D a discount.

I would be totally in favor of this and it would certainly make me want to buy the game a whole lot more, rather than waiting for the first huge sale.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Adacore » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:45 pm UTC

For once I'm glad I'm behind the curve. I've been intending to pick up L4D for months but haven't got around to it yet. Now this has been announced I'm just going to leave it and hold off until L4D2.

I have faith in Valve though - I think they'll find a way to make it not-a-ripoff for people who bought L4D last year.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby el_loco_avs » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

Yeah i only recently bought it. Kinda angry now.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby crucialityfactor » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:10 pm UTC

Knowing Valve they've probably already discussed these concerns and have some sort of plan in place to not fuck their loyal fan base. That's normally their priority numero uno.

Also...I'll be buying this, gotta keep up to date on all the latest zombie tactics so I am prepared for the inevitable mass infection.

Also giving away L4D2 for free/discounted based on who owns it doesn't really help those of us who have it for the 360, unless they release it via Arcade and then require that you have L4D1 in the cd drive...

Most important part of the preview:

there’s going to be a chainsaw.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby thicknavyrain » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:20 pm UTC

I personally feel they should spend every possible developing moment trying to get HL2: Ep 3 out...
Still, Left 4 Dead ending up being about £10 here during the sale so the next one won't be much more expensive...
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:07 pm UTC

I wouldn't mind it being handled a-la Lost Coast, where you have to buy another game running the same engine to play it. More people would buy L4D, giving mod teams even more incentive to work with the L4D engine, rather than the EP1 or OB engines.

Edit: the improvements they are adding to the AI Director are going to be fucking amazing!
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:26 pm UTC

crucialityfactor wrote:Most important part of the preview:

there’s going to be a chainsaw.

MY GOD MAN! DO YOU KNOW NOTHING? That's one of the worst weapons you can use. If you can call it a weapon. Hell, you should probably substitute the word "chainsaw" for "dinner bell."

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Coin » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:29 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
crucialityfactor wrote:Most important part of the preview:

there’s going to be a chainsaw.

MY GOD MAN! DO YOU KNOW NOTHING? That's one of the worst weapons you can use. If you can call it a weapon. Hell, you should probably substitute the word "chainsaw" for "dinner bell."


As long as it makes the blood fountain I think it's going to be pretty successful ;)
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby el_loco_avs » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:08 pm UTC

thicknavyrain wrote:I personally feel they should spend every possible developing moment trying to get HL2: Ep 3 out...
Still, Left 4 Dead ending up being about £10 here during the sale so the next one won't be much more expensive...



I think L4D is developed by a studio they bought, Turtle Rock. It's part of Valve now, but I'm assuming they do their own work :)
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby SpazzyMcGee » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:07 pm UTC

Between the new item unlock system for TF2 and the upcoming release of L4D2, I'm seriously having my faith in Valve tested. I feel like a Bible thumper who just lost sight of God. WTF Valve?

L4D was a cool game, but it lacked of content. Sure its environments were as large as any other comparable game, but the gameplay is very limited in L4D so Valve needed a few more maps to makeup for that and make it a full priced release onto itself. They followed through with their expected release by giving us a new mode and single tiny level to try it out along with rehashes of previous maps and opened up the oddly left 2 out versus maps. Overall they succeeded in making L4D worth its sticker price. However this is Valve. I don't expect to be merely satisfied. I expect to be blown away.

Now they are coming out with L4D2 a mere year after L4D. It will no doubt have the exact same gameplay offering little more than a slight increase in graphics (still behind the current standard given the Source engine's age), a few new maps (that given the limited gameplay will seem like a lot less than it is), new bosses (perhaps a redeeming quality but the jury is out), and the interesting addition of unique melee weapons. If I were a gaming critic I would label L4D2 as a refurbished L4D thrown out as quickly as possible to make a quick buck. Unless the new bosses and items offer a drastic increase in gameplay diversity I will not consider L4D2 on par with the industry quality standard, I will consider it to be sub par... which is utterly blasphemous to see coming out of Valves doors.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jebobek » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

Perhaps Valve Let the members of Turtle Rock keep developing their game with the influx of money, and they worked on the engine for the next game rather than the origional? They got alot of content out of the way in a fast amount of time, and it's about to be considered complete?

Look at Opposing Force. According to the Wiki, Valve selected Gearbox to develop OF so that they can work on future projects.

Half-Life was released in November 1998.
Opposing Force was announced April 1999 and released November 1999.

Left 4 Dead was released in November 2008.
Left 4 Dead 2 was announced June 2009 and will be released around November 17th? 2009.

Just thought it was interesting to compare the two up. Maybe Valve's got plenty of people working on their other projects?
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Bukkarooo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:40 pm UTC

aion7 wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:Relax. If it takes as long as TF2, L4D will be made completely obsolete before they even decide on a visual style.

They said November of this year.


you're acting as if all release dates ever given are final. games get pushed back, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:Perhaps Valve Let the members of Turtle Rock keep developing their game with the influx of money, and they worked on the engine for the next game rather than the origional? They got alot of content out of the way in a fast amount of time, and it's about to be considered complete?

Look at Opposing Force. According to the Wiki, Valve selected Gearbox to develop OF so that they can work on future projects.

Half-Life was released in November 1998.
Opposing Force was announced April 1999 and released November 1999.

Left 4 Dead was released in November 2008.
Left 4 Dead 2 was announced June 2009 and will be released around November 17th? 2009.

Just thought it was interesting to compare the two up. Maybe Valve's got plenty of people working on their other projects?

Also, lest we forget, Opposing Force was a pretty good game, and reasonably cheap iirc.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:12 pm UTC

Bukkarooo wrote:
aion7 wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:Relax. If it takes as long as TF2, L4D will be made completely obsolete before they even decide on a visual style.

They said November of this year.


you're acting as if all any release dates ever given are final. games get pushed back, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Bukkarooo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:
Bukkarooo wrote:
aion7 wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:Relax. If it takes as long as TF2, L4D will be made completely obsolete before they even decide on a visual style.

They said November of this year.


you're acting as if all any release dates ever given are final. games get pushed back, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was.


my mistake :P

I have to say that, while I'm surprised Valve is making a sequel so quickly, I trust them. They've not made a single game that I did not thoroughly enjoy playing. They know what they're doing, so I'm not gonna worry too much about this one.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby psion » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:47 pm UTC

I'm thinking L4D2 won't have the current L4D characters/levels so that the original L4D retains some value. Who knows, though... they might retrograde all the changes too.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby aion7 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:00 am UTC

Opposing force was also developed by an entirely different team.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ajbleck » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:03 pm UTC

another thing if they can push out a sequel in 1 year then why don't we have episode 3 yet or portal 2?
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jebobek » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:14 pm UTC

ajbleck wrote:another thing if they can push out a sequel in 1 year then why don't we have episode 3 yet or portal 2?
LFD2 is probably being pushed out by a different team! Perhaps Turtle Rock developers which Valve gobbled up!
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:45 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:
ajbleck wrote:another thing if they can push out a sequel in 1 year then why don't we have episode 3 yet or portal 2?
LFD2 is probably being pushed out by a different team! Perhaps Turtle Rock developers which Valve gobbled up!
Lies. All fanbois/grrls must be irrational beings that cannot take a second to come up with a semi-plausible reason to why any action is taken and instead foam at the mouth while handing over cash for drugs games.

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby Jebobek » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:03 pm UTC

You know, if they would have marketed it as "An expansion that you don't need the origional game for" People would be all like "Oh one year, thats reasonable!" That would mean the price is expected to be lower, however.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby ajbleck » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:20 am UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:
Jebobek wrote:
ajbleck wrote:another thing if they can push out a sequel in 1 year then why don't we have episode 3 yet or portal 2?
LFD2 is probably being pushed out by a different team! Perhaps Turtle Rock developers which Valve gobbled up!
Lies. All fanbois/grrls must be irrational beings that cannot take a second to come up with a semi-plausible reason to why any action is taken and instead foam at the mouth while handing over cash for drugs games.


i'm not really a fanboy. All i'm saying is yearly releases are as close to "episodic gaming" as you can come, not the 3+ years it's taken for episode 3. I thought valve said they wanted shorter release times and more games.
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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby crucialityfactor » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:07 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
crucialityfactor wrote:Most important part of the preview:

there’s going to be a chainsaw.

MY GOD MAN! DO YOU KNOW NOTHING? That's one of the worst weapons you can use. If you can call it a weapon. Hell, you should probably substitute the word "chainsaw" for "dinner bell."


Wow...troll much?

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Re: Left 4 Dead: 2!

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:58 pm UTC

Jahoclave is hilarious though, so all is forgiven.
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