Minecraft

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Ishindri
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Ishindri » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:46 pm UTC

A friend of mine introduced me to this a few days ago... it's possibly the worst thing I could have discovered at the very beginning of finals week.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Pianodog » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:47 pm UTC

I found this a while ago, and it held me like nothing has for years.

Thankfully, frustration over excessive monster spawns forced me to take a break and I've been in recovery since. I don't know if they've been fixed. I don't want to know. I just know that at some point I'm going to fall back into the abyss and loose myself there again.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Sleipner » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:21 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:You started out with the fact that you got in trouble for playing the game in class, now you're just making things up - "studying" Minecraft, indeed.

And you can't study something by testing it? I'll admit that I go off the track on these things occasionally, but I stand by it being perfectly viable research most of the time. The problem isn't in playing, it's in playing responsibly.

See, when I play Minecraft, I'm studying two things: first, player interaction and behavior within a sandbox world (Minecraft being the definition sandbox game this side of Garry's Mod), and second, programming. Admittedly, the second one is usually me messing around -with- Minecraft instead of inside it, but the game provided me a golden chance to actually begin to understand Java with a motivation beyond 'because the tutorial says so', much like Garry's Mod did for me with Lua.

I admit I'm bitter, but I also see that my anger stems from a fallacy and a persisting prejudice. The fallacy is that there is nothing to learn from video games, despite being in Digipen's Game Design & Animation class (not the college, a Skills Center) designed to teach people about video games and the creation process thereof. The persisting prejudice is that games are immediately bad in any and all practical senses. Games are as useful, potentially artistic, and viable as an entertainment medium as books or movies have ever been, and those get used in class all the time.

Let me make a truce: I stop shooting my mouth off like the indignant, socially inept student I am, and we move on to other things. After this post, I'll shut the hell up about games in class in this thread, provided we all do.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Awia » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

Does anyone have any idea what would cause a server to have 30 second lag spikes nearly every minute? I've does a quick search for forest fires and there aren't any, so it can't be that, I don't think it's the mods it's running and monsters are off.
It's really really annoying.
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Sleipner
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Sleipner » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:34 pm UTC

Awia wrote:Does anyone have any idea what would cause a server to have 30 second lag spikes nearly every minute? I've does a quick search for forest fires and there aren't any, so it can't be that, I don't think it's the mods it's running and monsters are off.
It's really really annoying.

Servers set up on iffy computers can be an issue, as can the owner running the server and playing on it from the same computer (my friend does this, though he has always-on broadband and no one has any issues with lag). Other than that, it could be the internet connection of the server, but it's most likely an issue on that end. If nothing else, ask other people who use your same server and see if they have the same problem. Someone might have a fix.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Awia » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:10 pm UTC

Sadly the server is a proper dedicated server in a farm from Multiplay which was bought to stop the low bandwidth lag of the bedroom server we were using before.
The only reason we haven't complained the multiplay yet is because other people report nothing but butterflies and rainbows from them with their minecraft servers, so I'm assuming it's something wrong with how we've set up our server.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:11 pm UTC

So, if I set up a server for XKCD folks, would you join me?

For now it'd be on my desktop, but we could look into moving it to something more real in the future.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby uncivlengr » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:10 pm UTC

I definitely would, though I'm likely not going to have much time over the holidays.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kirby » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:47 pm UTC

I'd join the XKCD server.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Technical Ben » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:51 pm UTC

Awia wrote:Does anyone have any idea what would cause a server to have 30 second lag spikes nearly every minute? I've does a quick search for forest fires and there aren't any, so it can't be that, I don't think it's the mods it's running and monsters are off.
It's really really annoying.

Not sure iff the lighting bug is fixed yet. On server side lighting calculations, it gets stuck in a loop. This either jams the CPU or snowballs until it gets bogged down. The quick fix is to have it "halt" or reset the lighting calculation after running for so long with in a loop. Hence the lag after a min, then back to normal, then lag, etc.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Amalith » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:30 am UTC

I'd definitely join an xkcd server.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Ishindri » Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:19 am UTC

As would I.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Rippy » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:36 pm UTC

I don't own the game yet, but assuming I do buy it before the 20th (when it's supposed to go out of alpha and become pricier?), I'd play on the xkcd server.

Also, RE: the Dwarf Fortress comparison, I think the main reason DF is less popular is because Toady is pursuing what he wants to see from his game. He'd rather add more features than make the UI more accessible. It's admirable in a way, but I find it kind of unfortunate that the game stays obscure largely because it's too intimidating to newbies (not even just intimidating to casual gamers, but to serious ones as well). I get the feeling that's how they want it, though.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:55 am UTC

Sleipner wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:You're the student and therefore you do as told by God. If he doesn't want you playing video games, then you damn well don't play video games. If he tells you to write a minimum five-page essay with an annotated bibliography then you write a five-page essay with an annotated bibliography and for the love of God it would help if you didn't f'ing suck at it.

Corrections in bold.

So, I hope everyone had fun bashing the student. This post in particular really pointed out the hostile attitude towards students who try to look ahead in their classes when a) they're finished with the work set for them, b) the teacher is nowhere near the lecture podium and is instead helping individual students, and c) they're FUCKING DONE WITH THEIR WORK.

Look at the comments people kept making: 'the teacher is God', 'it's fucking rude', 'it's about respect'. Fuck respect, okay? Yes, it's a part of human interaction, but I'm trying to learn something from a game design class and playing and studying a very successful game that I just happen to be able to carry with me shouldn't be punished. Not with the sound off, or while I'm in the corner of the room. I'm not distracting anyone, it's just the teacher being insecure about his authority and bringing down the banhammer while an entire forum backs him up.

* I study a game in game design class, as allowed per class rules.
* Teacher gets onto me about said game.
* Forum full of usually quite intelligent people goes ape shit defending him.
*** People are jerks.

Quad Erat Demonstrandum, fuckers.

Okay, bit of a response to this. I doubt you've ever been a teacher, otherwise you might understand exactly the problem here (aside from the fact that you're correcting a forum post for grammar and not even doing so correctly). Instructors have to put up with an already incredible amount of crap and just because they're not at the lecture podium doesn't mean you have carte blanche to do whatever. It is still their classroom no matter where in the classroom they are. You weren't supposed to be playing that game in class and you were playing that game in class. If the instructor allows that to happen then that does run into problems of authority if other people start doing the exact same thing. Even if you normally are allowed to do so, he told you not to do something in class and you threw a conniption fit. That's the exact opposite of good decorum. Even your comment about him being on an authority trip kind of shows your disrespect for his authority. And last, don't Q.E.D. something when you're wrong. It's in bad taste.

As for that prejudice against games, it's not as existent as you'd think, and I've read a good handful of theory papers on video games and composition. I've even contributed to the research ideas for some.

As for an xkcd server, I'd totally go on that.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:03 am UTC

So, in the short term, I don't have a proper server to host this on, and would be running it on my desktop. I'm not sure if that's going to be sustainable, so please understand that it's on a see-if-it-works-ok basis only. If I do decide to close it down, I'll make the save available afterwards.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:07 am UTC

I've ended up with a VPS that's rather over-spec'd for what it's doing, it can probably handle a small-to-moderate minecraft server if needed.

*grumble grumble * stupid ex *grumble grumble* shared projects *grumble grumble* hosting contracts
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Re: Minecraft

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:37 pm UTC

So, I keep ignoring it thinking that it'll just go away. And it keeps coming back up.

So, for now, we're all going to shut the hell up about playing a game in a classroom during normal classroom hours, and move on.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:21 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:I've ended up with a VPS that's rather over-spec'd for what it's doing, it can probably handle a small-to-moderate minecraft server if needed.

*grumble grumble * stupid ex *grumble grumble* shared projects *grumble grumble* hosting contracts


If you don't mind, that'd be better than my desktop. I've got a save file that I just created; it's sort of neat because there was some sort of bug in the initial region leading to giant cliffs with sea caves, I've done some building of a fort a short ways to the north of spawn, but not much else. We could use that, or we could start fresh, whatever you prefer.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kirby » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:49 pm UTC

Whoever ends up hosting the server (I would, but my desktop has seen better days), I'd recommend that we install the hey0 server mod. There's a lot more features and whatnot, plus it has a public API and plugin support.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:38 am UTC

OK, server can be ready to go more or less whenever, although I'm thinking of waiting until the 20th/21st, as it's expected that's when the beta will be released.

Anyways:
What kind of server would people like to see? Peaceful, with lots of options for building stuff and crafting-type plugins? OMG-hard with lots of death and no handouts? Something in between? Any particular plugins that people would like to have available (ideally things that plug into hey0)? Ideas for a name?

I've also taken a look at the map Meteorswarm sent me. Depending on what kind of world people want, it may or may not work - it's slightly developed already, but not much, and otherwise looks pretty neat. It's probably only an issue if there's a real demand for hardcore survival.

(Also, if we don't want to use that, I know how to bugger a world to get the same sort of random cliffs and such, so we can still do that. It's pretty awesome.)
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Josephine » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:53 am UTC

BiomeTerrain mod. It's a much better, very customizable world generator. I would prefer less survival. I'd like to be able to just build.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Goldstein » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:20 am UTC

nbonaparte wrote:I would prefer less survival.


I was with you until I realised you meant 'less survival-oriented'.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Malle » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:57 am UTC

I'd probably be interested in playing on the server. I prefer peaceful and don't care much about how you do with handouts, but having access to diamond tools from the start would be nice.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:37 am UTC

Goldstein wrote:
nbonaparte wrote:I would prefer less survival.


I was with you until I realised you meant 'less survival-oriented'.


Agreed, the survival game needs a reason to play past half way through the first day when you make shelter.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Technical Ben » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:53 pm UTC

Well, Notch says he is working on towns, and such with NPCs. Also a main quest (optional) which could be collect, find or kill something. Who knows.
I hope they do ship the final product with a creative mode as well...
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Rippy » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:28 pm UTC

Just bought the game last night. I'd be down for playing on the server, but I don't really know what I'm doing yet so I don't know enough to vote for any settings.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Josephine » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:35 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
Goldstein wrote:
nbonaparte wrote:I would prefer less survival.


I was with you until I realised you meant 'less survival-oriented'.


Agreed, the survival game needs a reason to play past half way through the first day when you make shelter.

My opinion is this: Shelters are easy to make. Monsters are simply annoying after the first day or so. I'd rather not grind, digging through huge amounts of rock to find what I need, because what really draws me to the game is building stuff.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby DocStrong » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:44 pm UTC

I'm new to the Minecraft world, but so far i am having a blast playing it. I am looking for a server to be whitelisted into. Anyone have any good servers?

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Rippy » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

nbonaparte wrote:My opinion is this: Shelters are easy to make. Monsters are simply annoying after the first day or so. I'd rather not grind, digging through huge amounts of rock to find what I need, because what really draws me to the game is building stuff.

Yeah, I've been playing survival mode today and I'm already sort of sick of the mining involved in making something big (in this case, a huge obelisk to mark my spawn for when I wander). Then again, it feels like more of an accomplishment to have done something with gathered resources. Sorta feels like cheating to have unlimited of everything. Since I haven't (up until now at least) had any plans for massive constructions, I prefer survival mode.

What if the server were survival mode, but with lots of handouts? That way those who want to deal with monsters can do that, and those who are building stuff will have the equipment to defend themselves and not get too distracted from building.

Edit: Also, fucking ghasts. I made a portal and was trying to build a stairway to the ceiling to gather lightstone, but the damn things are everywhere and their fireballs destroy blocks. I need to load up on a crap-ton of arrows and head back for revenge.

Edit 2: One more thing: is there any way to speed up the furnace? Making a batch of 64 glass involves plopping in the coal and sand and then going to make yourself lunch for ten minutes.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby uncivlengr » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:30 am UTC

Rippy wrote:One more thing: is there any way to speed up the furnace? Making a batch of 64 glass involves plopping in the coal and sand and then going to make yourself lunch for ten minutes.
Make more furnaces - they're dirt cheap, and you can just split up your coal/sand between a bunch of them and get them working at the same time.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:24 am UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:OK, server can be ready to go more or less whenever, although I'm thinking of waiting until the 20th/21st, as it's expected that's when the beta will be released.

Anyways:
What kind of server would people like to see? Peaceful, with lots of options for building stuff and crafting-type plugins? OMG-hard with lots of death and no handouts? Something in between? Any particular plugins that people would like to have available (ideally things that plug into hey0)? Ideas for a name?

I've also taken a look at the map Meteorswarm sent me. Depending on what kind of world people want, it may or may not work - it's slightly developed already, but not much, and otherwise looks pretty neat. It's probably only an issue if there's a real demand for hardcore survival.

(Also, if we don't want to use that, I know how to bugger a world to get the same sort of random cliffs and such, so we can still do that. It's pretty awesome.)


I propose keeping it light survival - giving out stuff that's annoying, like mine carts and tracks when we get around to building a subway or skyrail system, or materials for building something cool, and maybe coal, or diamond tools, but preferring self-obtaining. This is a little hypocritical since I cheated to get all the stone for the fort I built, but... I like that fort. Of course, if you don't want to use that world, I can still play on it, so whatever.

I've got some experience building rail systems, so a rail line connecting people is definitely a priority of mine.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:25 am UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:
PhoenixEnigma wrote:OK, server can be ready to go more or less whenever, although I'm thinking of waiting until the 20th/21st, as it's expected that's when the beta will be released.

Anyways:
What kind of server would people like to see? Peaceful, with lots of options for building stuff and crafting-type plugins? OMG-hard with lots of death and no handouts? Something in between? Any particular plugins that people would like to have available (ideally things that plug into hey0)? Ideas for a name?

I've also taken a look at the map Meteorswarm sent me. Depending on what kind of world people want, it may or may not work - it's slightly developed already, but not much, and otherwise looks pretty neat. It's probably only an issue if there's a real demand for hardcore survival.

(Also, if we don't want to use that, I know how to bugger a world to get the same sort of random cliffs and such, so we can still do that. It's pretty awesome.)


I propose keeping it light survival - giving out stuff that's annoying, like mine carts and tracks when we get around to building a subway or skyrail system, or materials for building something cool, and maybe coal, or diamond tools, but preferring self-obtaining. This is a little hypocritical since I cheated to get all the stone for the fort I built, but... I like that fort. Of course, if you don't want to use that world, I can still play on it, so whatever.

I've got some experience building rail systems, so a rail line connecting people is definitely a priority of mine.

So I can have unlimited tnt? Because, I seriously am going to figure out how to build me one of those giant cannon thingies so I can launch pig carts into space.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:55 pm UTC

Well, this should be a community decision, but I don't see a problem with TNT as long as you're not demolishing stuff other people have built. Also, launching pigs into orbit is certainly an admirable goal.

Particularly if we have monsters off (which I support, they're annoying), there would be no way to get gunpowder for TNT
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Re: Minecraft

Postby luvnotwar » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:13 pm UTC

Hey, do you think I could please be whitelisted on your server? Mostly I just explore and go spelunking and wander aimlessly, but occasionally I get kind of ambitious with a construction project. Haven't played multiplayer yet.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Rippy » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:33 pm UTC

When the server's up, I'm looking to challenge someone to a gentlemanly around-the-world-style race. We get teleported a significant distance from the spawn and, equipped with nothing but a compass, boat, workbench and rudimentary tools, race back. It'd be even better with monsters somehow.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Technical Ben » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:55 pm UTC

And balloons. We need hot air balloons!
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Rippy » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:10 pm UTC

Technical Ben wrote:And balloons. We need hot air balloons!

I was thinking this too. Then you could just fly anyway anywhere you want... as long as that place is directly North of you :P.

I'm impressed with how big the world generated is, but I sorta wish it were small enough that journeying to the edge of the world were possible. By someone's calculations it takes 45-ish hours to reach it without cheats. If it were 10 hours then you could reach it with some persistence.

Oh and thanks for that multi-furnace suggestion. I actually didn't even know you could run a furnace without supervision...

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:15 pm UTC

Rippy wrote:
Technical Ben wrote:And balloons. We need hot air balloons!

I was thinking this too. Then you could just fly anyway anywhere you want... as long as that place is directly North of you :P.

I'm impressed with how big the world generated is, but I sorta wish it were small enough that journeying to the edge of the world were possible. By someone's calculations it takes 45-ish hours to reach it without cheats. If it were 10 hours then you could reach it with some persistence.

Oh and thanks for that multi-furnace suggestion. I actually didn't even know you could run a furnace without supervision...


I've heard that the maximum surface area (defined by the size of a Java floating point...) is something like 8 times the surface area of the earth - it would take a reeeaaaalllyyy long time to walk there.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby RoadieRich » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:20 pm UTC

Rippy wrote:
Technical Ben wrote:And balloons. We need hot air balloons!

I was thinking this too. Then you could just fly anyway anywhere you want... as long as that place is directly North of you :P.

I'm impressed with how big the world generated is, but I sorta wish it were small enough that journeying to the edge of the world were possible. By someone's calculations it takes 45-ish hours to reach it without cheats. If it were 10 hours then you could reach it with some persistence.

Oh and thanks for that multi-furnace suggestion. I actually didn't even know you could run a furnace without supervision...


World size also dependant on directory size limits and diskspace - you can create new chunks until there's too many files within the world directory, or the disk is full. The maximum size of the world will therefore vary on different operating systems and filesystems. I seem to remember reading "6 days constant walking" somewhere.

What might be fun is to try and sym-link the world into a torus, just to see if it works.

Furnaces work unattended as long as you stay within 10 chunks of it (160 horizontal meters). If you go further than that, the chunk is unloaded, and all processing on it stops.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby uncivlengr » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:24 pm UTC

Rippy wrote:When the server's up, I'm looking to challenge someone to a gentlemanly around-the-world-style race. We get teleported a significant distance from the spawn and, equipped with nothing but a compass, boat, workbench and rudimentary tools, race back. It'd be even better with monsters somehow.

I had a similar idea for racing, but it was vertical rather than horizontal. I can't remember if I described this in the thread already, but basically I'd go to some high elevation, then dig a single pipe straight down until I hit the bottom.

Then I'd jump-fill the pipe with TNT until I reached the surface, and set it off - what results is a very deep, irregular tube, and then the goal is to make it to the bottom, spelunking-style, as quickly as possible without losing any hearts. Allowing some building material is optional, and barring the use of the cavern waterfalls that are produced can also be optional.
I don't know what to do for you


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