Minecraft

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Steax
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:17 am UTC

Did... did we break the server, infina?
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_infina_
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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:05 pm UTC

Steax wrote:Did... did we break the server, infina?

restarting.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:16 pm UTC

Looks like the server is still down. Hopefully our lava procurement initiative isn't causing server death (it shouldn't, as it seemed to work quite well when dire used it in his smp series, but maybe the chunkloaders are loading something a bit more unstable?)
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:19 pm UTC

But the lava system wasn't on at the time, was it? The last thing I was doing was attach a bit of wire to the lava output to the rest of the machines. But I'm not sure how that could lead to instability; I'm quite sure I placed everything correctly, sans the fact that copper wire resistance probably killed any power before it led to the work shed.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:46 pm UTC

Well, we had just started running the system five minutes (or less) before the crash. The carts will run until the tank is full, which was rather clearly not the case. Still, the tank cart + mystcraft portals really shouldn't cause instability.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:36 pm UTC

Ah, so that's why I couldn't connect at all. I thought it was my firewall acting up and blocking some random outbound connections again.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:46 pm UTC

By the way rirez, when you got disconnected after the crash, did you also see a ".spam" as the reason for your disconnection?
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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:52 am UTC

Is the server still down? I can't connect, but I'm not sure if it's a problem on my end or the server's.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby CombustibleLemons » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:07 am UTC

yeah I can't connect either.
You, sir, name? wrote:Just make sure to consistently whack it in the ass, as that's one end it does not shoot fire out of. Be careless with the flame-magic and it may just shoot fire out both ends.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:08 am UTC

should be up now.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Minecraft

Postby gametaku » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:33 am UTC

_infina_, can I be whitelisted on the ftb server?

I"m thinking that I'll be a mage.

Username is cstruble

*I d sent a pm but nothing came of that.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:37 am UTC

Well, I still can't connect and It's not my firewall this time, so I'm not sure what's going on.

EDIT: and miraculously (3 minutes later) I can connect. Whatever, minecraft.
Last edited by eculc on Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:40 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:39 am UTC

gametaku wrote:_infina_, can I be whitelisted on the ftb server?

I"m thinking that I'll be a mage.

Username is cstruble

*I d sent a pm but nothing came of that.

You should be whitelisted already.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:40 am UTC

eculc wrote:Well, I still can't connect and It's not my firewall this time, so I'm not sure what's going on.

Crashing. Do not send minecarts through mystcraft portals.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Minecraft

Postby gametaku » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:42 am UTC

_infina_ wrote:
gametaku wrote:_infina_, can I be whitelisted on the ftb server?

I"m thinking that I'll be a mage.

Username is cstruble

*I d sent a pm but nothing came of that.

You should be whitelisted already.


it says that I'm not whitelisted when I try to join.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:59 am UTC

_infina_ wrote:
eculc wrote:Well, I still can't connect and It's not my firewall this time, so I'm not sure what's going on.

Crashing. Do not send minecarts through mystcraft portals.


:(
Very well, guess we'll have to find another way of powering everything. (Yay, time to experiment with something new!)

Are the portals themselves stable? I might want to set up a second tank in the nether, pump lava to it, and then use a full inventory of buckets to refill the one in the overworld when necessary.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:01 am UTC

There's an ocean, and I want it to not be there anymore. This sounds like a job for engineering.
Spoiler:
Step One: Fill ocean with sand. Thanks, Pandora sand machine!
Step Two: Torches everywhere.
2012-12-31_19.17.20.png
No mobs are spawning here, that's for sure.

Step Three: Break the ceiling.
2012-12-31_19.20.20.png
Falling sand/gravel.

2012-12-31_19.33.32.png
Moon!

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Steax
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:47 am UTC

Another FTB server crash because ONE block fell into a portal. We should probably ditch the portals entirely because we never know if any random item falls in one.

2013-01-01_13.44.35.png
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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:51 am UTC

has the error been reported to the FTB people? that might be important.

PRE-POST EDIT: Yeah, it's been reported. and in fact, Here we can get the (unofficial) hotfix for it. It might be worth looking in to until mystcraft gets updated.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:18 am UTC

So it's a known issue? Hope it gets sorted out soon, I much prefer portals to books.

And I hope the server comes back soon. =(
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:28 pm UTC

Ooh, well, if it is a known bug, hopefully that means that at some point in the future it will be fixed, and we will be able to use the rail+portal lava transfer method. It wasn't a complete waste of time to make those rails after all!
In the meantime, I'll deactivate every myst portal I can find and replace them with bookstands.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby CombustibleLemons » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:14 pm UTC

Is the server down for anyone else? I was have connection issues last night and now I can' connect at all.
You, sir, name? wrote:Just make sure to consistently whack it in the ass, as that's one end it does not shoot fire out of. Be careless with the flame-magic and it may just shoot fire out both ends.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

I can't connect either, I wouldn't be surprised if the server's still down from the crash last night.

Steax, you're probably right - portals should not be built (and any we have should be broken) until the bug is fixed to limit downtime.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

eculc wrote:I can't connect either, I wouldn't be surprised if the server's still down from the crash last night.

Steax, you're probably right - portals should not be built (and any we have should be broken) until the bug is fixed to limit downtime.

Fixed. I updated forge to 495...the server is on 1.4.7, but 1.4.6 connects perfectly. No changes are needed on your side.
Spoiler:
keozen wrote:It took us exactly 3 pages to turn a discussion of a loved children's book series into smut...
TheGrammarBolshevik wrote:Only if your friends know what rhino dong smells like.

Malo mbwa mwitu

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Re: Minecraft

Postby gametaku » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:32 pm UTC

_infina_ wrote:
eculc wrote:I can't connect either, I wouldn't be surprised if the server's still down from the crash last night.

Steax, you're probably right - portals should not be built (and any we have should be broken) until the bug is fixed to limit downtime.

Fixed. I updated forge to 495...the server is on 1.4.7, but 1.4.6 connects perfectly. No changes are needed on your side.



Still get the same error, about not being white-listed.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:37 am UTC

"Hey, did someone grief the nether with wool?"

*wool turns around*

OH FUUUUUUUUUU
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Xerillum » Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:16 am UTC

It looks like the moongates back to the shrine of spirituality in britannia are broken, they kept putting me below the platform.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:19 am UTC

... Hm.

Whoops!

Should be fixed, dropping you at 5 instead of 2. My bad there.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:19 am UTC

[FTB] Okay, I officially give up trying to set up the sorting system. I do know that we don't want any processing to actually take place within the sorting building; the building is purely where items arrive and are sorted, and all sorts of item preparation processes should take place elsewhere. What I'm not sure is how to setup the redpower pipes to handle this. In regular buildcraft I'd just have a long ring/line of pipes with diamond pipes every so often to pluck items out as they pass an item preparation station. But I'm not sure about the most optimal RP way, and I'm afraid about wasting precious materials on too many filters and stuff.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby halgdp » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:31 am UTC

Please everyone, do like Steax. If you write about FTB, start with "[FTB]".
Since I'm not really in for FTB.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:04 pm UTC

[FTB] I can set up something later today, steax. yesterday I got the sorter sending cobble to a barrel, and from there to a recycler and then a lava pit (cracked sand, sand, dirt and gravel are not going into a barrel but are also on this line). Also, the biogas tank needs to be expanded, I think. It's almost full ATM and it won't get any less so with more production.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:11 pm UTC

eculc wrote:[FTB] I can set up something later today, steax. yesterday I got the sorter sending cobble to a barrel, and from there to a recycler and then a lava pit (cracked sand, sand, dirt and gravel are not going into a barrel but are also on this line). Also, the biogas tank needs to be expanded, I think. It's almost full ATM and it won't get any less so with more production.


[FTB] Great! For now, I'm going to try adding another recycler or two. I may also try to push the recycling/massfab out of that building and use that purely for energy storage.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:16 pm UTC

halgdp wrote:Please everyone, do like Steax. If you write about FTB, start with "[FTB]".
Since I'm not really in for FTB.


If we're doing that, then throw a [Rippy] or [Talon] or even [Padorian] or something in when you're talking about the server I'm running, to differentiate it from regular vanilla single-player or some other server chatter.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby gametaku » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

[FTB]
gametaku wrote:
_infina_ wrote:
eculc wrote:I can't connect either, I wouldn't be surprised if the server's still down from the crash last night.

Steax, you're probably right - portals should not be built (and any we have should be broken) until the bug is fixed to limit downtime.

Fixed. I updated forge to 495...the server is on 1.4.7, but 1.4.6 connects perfectly. No changes are needed on your side.



Still get the same error, about not being white-listed.



It's fixed.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

[FTB] Alright, I've added a barrel for extra scrap storage (since we're producing more than we can use) and a transposer to remove UU from the massfab (since we filled it up and it shut off)

I also cleaned up some wiring, and we have a few extra fiber cables as a result.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meem1029 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:07 am UTC

[FTB]

You guys are absurd. I was off the server for what, 4 days? When I was last on we had a reasonable start, but nothing crazy. Now I log on and I have no idea what's happening anywhere. And I had a reasonable setup going on a different server so I mostly know industrialcraft/buildcraft. I do think I'm gonna need to open up a local world to play around with redpower as it looks pretty cool.
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Steax
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:16 am UTC

[FTB] I can show you around if you'd like. It's not too much new stuff, actually.

eculc, there's a critical problem with sorting machines. They will stop working whenever an item has a valid destination but the target can't accept it, like if there's ore in the enderchest but both furnaces are in use. We could add some buffers, but this still severely limits bandwidth and the consequence for failure (item loss) is too high. Buildcraft is not an option without insertion pipes, either. I'm considering a railcraft option, but those are very expensive. Any other ideas?

--

Update on the sorter situation.

Redpower pipes are extremely bad at high-bandwidth tasks because of how they deal with item stacks. If you command a sorter/filter to take just 1 cobblestone, it will proceed to take out cobble bit by bit. If you command it to take a full stack, it will not take it until it reaches one stack - which doesn't work when we need a "take all the cobble through pipe A and send everything else to B" since it just sends any amount of cobble under 64 to pipe B. The solution to this is adding additional filters on the enderchest, clock them at ridiculous speeds, and tell them to grab 1, 8, and 64 of cobble, so they'll opportunistically take whole stacks of cobble when they can.

Our current firehose of a measly three buildcraft quarries running on 8 magmatic engines easily overwhelms this - the sorter is far too busy pulling 1 cobble at a time, resulting in other items piling up and eventually overflowing.

It took me two filters running on timers of 200ms, pulling 1~64 bits of cobble, dirt and cracked sand, to ensure the system did not clog. Even so, it sometimes still started to fill up whenever the quarries hit a large vein of gravel or something like it. It takes the combined might of all three machines at top speed to operate THREE quarries.

This works - and will scale - for now. Since the filters opportunistically grab stacks at once, we can add a few more quarries and it will scale. It will not scale when we start getting items faster, or in burst. And since we plan to operate turtles, which deposit their items in large bursts, we cannot risk having 2 turtles deposit at once and have all the quarries overflow for a few seconds as the system struggles to cope.

This differs significantly to Buildcraft, whose engines will, by default, opportunistically grab as many of an item (up to a stack) as possible. This can also clearly be solved by adding more buffers (simple chests or otherwise) but these are quite resource-intensive as well. And messy, and quite possibly laggy, due to the many timers flashing all over.

--

I plan to construct a railway-based item processing pipeline. It goes like this:

1. Items from quarries and other sources are pooled into a giant master storage warehouse. This is unsorted. Multiple filters and sorters focus on the enderchests at this point to extract useless cobble and dirt from the system.
2. Multiple rails and item loaders pump items into waiting carts upon a rail called the "processing rail".
3. This rail passes several processing points, each of which unloads a certain item from the carts. Some points will also load items back into the processing rail, when they don't want to consume all the materials - for example, obsidian is needed in multiple locations, so the first obsidian plant (producing pulverized obsidian) will return half the obsidian it takes for use in the later "industrial diamond" plant. These plants may use any pipes or machines internally, the carts don't care.
4. After each plant finishes doing its thing, the results are sent to a second rail, called the "sorting rail".
5. Carts on the sorting rail bring items to the sorting building, where they are finally sorted.
6. Carts on the processing rail bring any unprocessed items back to the warehouse, where they are stored before later being loaded back. Engineers can check the warehouse to see which items are not being processed, and build suitable plants for them.

Now, this could be accomplished with buildcraft and diamond pipes. My main issue with buildcraft pipes is that they're very eager - they will dump all their diamonds on the floor if they can. We don't have insertion pipes, so we can't stop this from happening. Chest carts will wait as they deposit their items, if they are full. We can use signals to prevent this from clogging the system.

And trains are awesome. So.

Edit 2: On second (sane) thought, I think we can just use buildcraft pipes for this. At least for a while. Since the chunks will all stay loaded, it should be stable, provided large enough buffers. A monitoring room with wireless redstone can use item detectors to shut down the pumps if a facility overflows. And if the warehouse overflows, redpower item dtectors will tell the quarries to stop.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:48 pm UTC

[FTB] remember that the system isn't completely set up yet. There should be a filter pulling out 32 cobble, sand, gravel, cracked sand, and dirt set at one second. If we're running into congestion problems, then we need to figure out how to handle the load. That was actually one of the improvements to the sorting machine - one of the new modes added for PR6 gave them the ability to pull out as big a stack of whatever items were requested as it could. If we have relays on each of the machines (and maybe another macerator, and upgrading the furnaces to induction furnaces) with overclockers on each (and maybe a transformer upgrade so that we don't have to step down the voltage) we should be able to handle anything the quarries can throw at us, since we have more than enough power generation to handle it.

another thing to consider might be filtering out the cobble before it reaches the sorting system. If we send it to another location (even another chest to enter the system from) we should be able to take care of it without many problems.

EDIT: after checking the wiki, with a few (read: a lot) of upgrades, a system with relays above each machine to handle overflow will certainly be able to handle anything we can throw at it. 16 overclockers, 2 transformers, and a storage upgrade will reduce the action time of a macerator to one action per tick, macerating an entire stack in about three seconds. I'm pretty sure we don't need to go quite that fast, but it's an Idea and lets us use the work we've already done.
Last edited by eculc on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:56 pm UTC

[FTB] Yes, but I'm still apprehensive about the long-term scalability as our resources truly start filtering in; the "try to catch up" model might work temporarily, but there may be fatal edge cases, like a relay getting filled with 9 different dusts and, by coincidence, a tenth kind appears, waiting to be sorted. And yeah, I'm considering where to put a "sanitizer station" filled with enderchests and filters that try to suck things out, so the sorter stays relatively clean.

I'll probably still create the processing stations; once the sorting system is set, we can have it pass through the warehouse where the buildcraft pipes do some pre-processing, before entering the sorter.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby eculc » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:12 pm UTC

Steax wrote:[FTB] Yes, but I'm still apprehensive about the long-term scalability as our resources truly start filtering in; the "try to catch up" model might work temporarily, but there may be fatal edge cases, like a relay getting filled with 9 different dusts and, by coincidence, a tenth kind appears, waiting to be sorted. And yeah, I'm considering where to put a "sanitizer station" filled with enderchests and filters that try to suck things out, so the sorter stays relatively clean.

I'll probably still create the processing stations; once the sorting system is set, we can have it pass through the warehouse where the buildcraft pipes do some pre-processing, before entering the sorter.

If we're creating a station to remove things that don't need to be processed any more than be sorted, we might just want to filter out said materials that need to be processed and put those into the processing line, and let the rest go to another location where it can be sorted among our system so that we don't have things like RP2 gems or coal clogging up the processing line.

In reality, I think that with use of relays and machine upgrades (and maybe induction furnaces; they can smelt two different types of items at once, or two stacks of the same item) we'll be able to handle pretty much anything that our firehose can push at us. Still, it's something to consider; it might be worth modeling something in the creative age before we try to build it, though, as that kind of thing can have plenty of problems if you don't know exactly what you need to build it.

another thing: I suggest we get working on an MFFS system, mostly for killing mobs that get too close to the building. We don't want to have another interruption like we did yesterday when the creeper destroyed our sorting input.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.


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