Overrated Games (spoilers)

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby thecommabandit » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:56 am UTC

Yeah, I played HL2 first and felt like I had missed some huge backstory that explained how Gordon knew all these people. Then I played HL. At one point there was a black scientist and a security guard who were telling me how to get to Xen... is that Eli and Barney? And pretty much every scientist that didn't have the Einstein moustache sounded like Kleiner, so I don't know where the hell he was. HL2 made it sound like they were all good friends but I don't even know who the hell they were.

That being said, Xen was stunning. I can't wait for Black Mesa: Source to be released to see it in higher graphical fidelity.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SoapyHobo » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:07 pm UTC

aion7 wrote:Yeah, Doom may not have aged too well
Doom is awesome, especially in co-op, it's like Left 4 Dead only 15 years earlier and with more special zombies. Doom 1/2, Quake 1/2, Duke3D, etc are all still amazingly fun in co-op and in my opinion none too shabby in singleplayer either.

The original Half-Life was brilliant for it's time, what with all the set pieces and complete lack of cutscenes keeping you involved, but playing it today it's not so good and falls down to a similar level to Doom 3 with the near constant respawning of enemies behind you, even once you've 'cleared' the area. It also succumbs to that age old game design trick, "let's take all the weapons from the player halfway through the game for no reason", they still did that in HL2, no idea why the hell they think that's a great choice when making a game.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:29 pm UTC

They never took away the player's weapons in HL2, unless you count the super-gravity-gun level at the end, but that is entirely forgivable due to the infinite awesomeness of launching combine soldiers at each other.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SoapyHobo » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:50 pm UTC

Why would I not count the super gravity gun bit at the end? They took away all your weapons didn't they? It doesn't matter that they gave you one awesome gun afterwards, they still did it.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:31 pm UTC

So? The point I was making is that the "taking away all your weapons" thing was actually pretty well done in HL2 because you were left with a scenario that was arguably more fun than the rest of the game combined, and they don't make you re-earn all your weapons back. That's like faulting a Wallace and Gromit puzzle game for using moon logic, even though it is only used once and achieves something hilarious in the process.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby BlackSails » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:31 pm UTC

Pokemon - the original grind fest!

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby thecommabandit » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:09 pm UTC

Somehow, I don't believe that Pokémon was the first ever game that required grinding. It feels like saying Star Trek was the first piece of science fiction.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:41 pm UTC

Pokemon only required grinding if you were trying to make a balanced, well planned out party. That's not my style...

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby aion7 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:08 pm UTC

I loved the original Half Life. I found the atmosphere to be amazing and immersive and the set pieces to be well done. The guns were well done and the level design was good. To this day it remains one of the most immersive game I've ever played.

The part of doom that has not aged well is the controls. The lack of vertical aiming in vertical environments feels weird and unnatural in this day and age, and using mouselook breaks the game, thus forcing a control style that feels archaic and generally not as fun.

Pocket Monsters Aka and Midori came out in 1996. Dragon Quest came out in 1986.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby infernovia » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:58 am UTC

SSF2T Does remain unique and awesome, but I would say whether or not it is the best fighting game of all time depends entirely on personal taste. Everyone plays fighting games differently.

People hailing it as the greatest fighting game of all time would be over-rating it, however I think then we would have every ok game as overrated. I think that SF2T controls well and still very fun. If its not the TOP, it will still exists in most of the top ten list of fighters out there. Not just because it was the original, but because it is what other games built out of.

I don't think its close to the games people rave about but is filled with mediocrity like FF7, blahtiblahblah.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SoapyHobo » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:56 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:So? The point I was making is that the "taking away all your weapons" thing was actually pretty well done in HL2 because you were left with a scenario that was arguably more fun than the rest of the game combined, and they don't make you re-earn all your weapons back. That's like faulting a Wallace and Gromit puzzle game for using moon logic, even though it is only used once and achieves something hilarious in the process.
Well...yeah, I'd criticize any game that included moon logic, no matter the outcome (I've no idea why you specifically mentioned Wallace and Gromit); it's illogical and frustrating and usually results in hitting a brick wall when it comes to progress. Regarding HL2's weapon theft, they've effectively reduced your choices in combat down to one and no matter how cool that one option is I'd still like to have the oppurtunity to shoot a rocket in someone's face/pin them to the wall with a crossbow bolt/disintegrate them with a plasma ball/etc as well as having the SGG.

Doom's controls do suck these days, true. I hadn't really thought about that too much haven grown up playing games with solely keyboard control as standard. Hell, I was playing UT sans mouse when I first played it...
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Shadic » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:44 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:Pokemon - the original grind fest!

The original games required absolutely no grinding whatsoever, unless you're counting trainers. If you have a halfway decent party, sweeping all the gym leaders and Elite Four is pretty easy. I beat the game in something like nine hours, but I'm fairly sure I could cut that down quite a bit, as I had forgotten most of the map when I played.

Seriously though, a Venusaur/Jolteon/Lapras/Snorlax/Alakazam/Fearow party will send you far. You could cut that down to just Venusaur/Fearow/Alakazam if need be - And you'd have stronger individual Pokemon in that case.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Tommy2995 » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:06 pm UTC

I think Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem, all of those kinds of games are terrible! And yet, everybody seems to love them! It's stupid.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Larry » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:34 am UTC

aion7 wrote:The part of doom that has not aged well is the controls. The lack of vertical aiming in vertical environments feels weird and unnatural in this day and age, and using mouselook breaks the game, thus forcing a control style that feels archaic and generally not as fun.


May I recommend Doom Legacy? You'll need to own the original game/s. Adds opengl, mouselook, crosshairs, basically makes it feel like quake.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:56 pm UTC

Tommy2995 wrote:I think Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem, all of those kinds of games are terrible! And yet, everybody seems to love them! It's stupid.
... okay, I'll bite.

Why? Why are they terrible games? I'm not asking you to justify your opinion in a "If you can't back it up, it's invalid" kind of way, but surely you have some reason as to why you find them terrible. And why you're listing 13+ year old games.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Jebobek » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:34 pm UTC

Well many can list FF7 as being Overrated (I personally feel that you need to list other games along with FF7 for a balanced breakfast RPG background) and thats around 12 years old. Wouldn't call it terrible though. Maybe if I picked it up for the first time today I would call it terrible. I guess if I never saw or heard of W3D, or understood its implications in future FPS's, I would wonder what all the fuss is.

Sidenote, a few weeks ago I saw a cartridge for Doom II for the SNES and I tried it out. Man that was bad. PC version is much better.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:50 pm UTC

Eh, I can talk about FF7. As near as I recalled, I played an incredibly bland, uninteresting blond kid with a sword while some other dude had an awesome machine gun. Alright, whatever.. sword obsession, I'm fine. But while everyone else seemed interesting either because they were just so damn chipper or were gruff or whatever, the guy I was playing - the guy I was supposed to be empathizing with - seemed to be a completely blank slate. Not in the mute protagonist way, where I'm free to make up my own dialog or whatever (See: Freeman's Mind for an example) but literally a guy who most of the time couldn't say anything. A completely socially awkward kid with a sword.

While I can empathize with the awkwardness and so on that comes with life, he was being treated by his friends as some sort of badass, tactical genius and fighting master, who's words they were following and who was cool, suave, and totally with it. This awkward, essentially mute character apparently has incredible amounts of charm in his awkward stutters and silences.

And I really had no interest in playing the role of a complete social reject that was nevertheless totally cool and ultra popular. I mean, throw in something about how he has to pay people to hang out with him, or give him a personality beyond cardboard and we'll talk. As is, I suffered through the first disk and hung it up after that.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Cecilff2 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:56 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:And I really had no interest in playing the role of a complete social reject that was nevertheless totally cool and ultra popular. I mean, throw in something about how he has to pay people to hang out with him, or give him a personality beyond cardboard and we'll talk. As is, I suffered through the first disk and hung it up after that.


I made it through 7 but when I noticed the character in 8 was even worse than this regard I couldn't take it anymore. 8 is still the only Pre X FF game I haven't beaten because I didn't care anything for the characters. Thankfully 9 changed all that.

While I haven't quite finished it yet. I'm finding Bioshock to be overrated. It's not bad, it's just not that good either. Nothing's really caught my attention, and the game doesn't creep me out or anything.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby lu6cifer » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:29 pm UTC

I think Doom is a bit overrated; a much better game of that time period was Marathon, produced by Bungie, and quite underrated. Marathon had wonderful gameplay, an immersive plot, and graphics that made Doom's graphics look pisspoor. The reason it wasn't as popular was because it was a Macintosh game...

Ironically, five years or so later, Bungie produced Halo, which many people consider very overrated.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby aion7 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:52 pm UTC

I found Marathon's level design to be atrocious, similar to all other Bungie games I have played.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby CogDissident » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:07 am UTC

lu6cifer wrote:I think Doom is a bit overrated; a much better game of that time period was Marathon, produced by Bungie, and quite underrated. Marathon had wonderful gameplay, an immersive plot, and graphics that made Doom's graphics look pisspoor. The reason it wasn't as popular was because it was a Macintosh game...

Ironically, five years or so later, Bungie produced Halo, which many people consider very overrated.

To be fair, Marathon 1 came out almost exactly a year after Doom 1 did. So it is much better to actually compare it with Doom2, which had "slightly" improved level graphics, but only slightly.
I agree with your graphics comparison though, adding some links to back you up.
Doom 2:
Image
Marathon 1:
Image

Also, the reason Halo "was" so popular is because it was a major Xbox launch game. Microsoft bought out Bungee for this express purpose. Halo was a finished game, or very close to it, when they got bought out. Halo was roughly a year or two older than it should have been when it finally came out on the xbox, which would have made it a much more visually impressive shooter. Especially considering the alpha-videos they showed for the mac had levels that were five times larger than actual levels on the xbox, due to the fact that it had been planned as a more high-end game.

Marathon one and two's level design was more realistic to how an actual ship would be set up, which may not make for good gameplay, but made levels more believable. And their level design didn't really become awful till they made the third game. There is no excuse for being able to "accidentally" wander from the first stage to the last, skipping all the middle item-gathering-stages, with no way back except an entire new game.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Ghavrel » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:45 am UTC

Maybe it's just because I played Doom a bit when I was younger and never played Marathon, but I don't think those graphics are better at all. Sure, maybe the individual sprites are better drawn, but in the Doom screenshot I can see that you're on a narrow pathway with corpses in front of you and monsters to the left and right. The HUD is minimalistic, letting me see a large amount of the screen. In the Marathon screenshot, I'm in a... doorway... shooting... alien Beedrills? Granted, I'm sure a better screenshot would be easier to understand, but there's absolutely no excuse for having an HUD that takes up well over a third of the screen (actually, it looks like it's approaching a full half), even if it has radar. Pretty? Yes. Useful?

Let's just say it looks like not much has changed with the Mac.

...*runs*
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby lu6cifer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:17 pm UTC

Ghavrel wrote:Maybe it's just because I played Doom a bit when I was younger and never played Marathon, but I don't think those graphics are better at all. Sure, maybe the individual sprites are better drawn, but in the Doom screenshot I can see that you're on a narrow pathway with corpses in front of you and monsters to the left and right. The HUD is minimalistic, letting me see a large amount of the screen. In the Marathon screenshot, I'm in a... doorway... shooting... alien Beedrills? Granted, I'm sure a better screenshot would be easier to understand, but there's absolutely no excuse for having an HUD that takes up well over a third of the screen (actually, it looks like it's approaching a full half), even if it has radar. Pretty? Yes. Useful?

Let's just say it looks like not much has changed with the Mac.

...*runs*



Well, to be honest, I've only played Marathon with AlephOne, which I think is an emulator or something related. The HUD doesn't take up so much space with AlephOne:
Image


Also, the reason Halo "was" so popular is because it was a major Xbox launch game. Microsoft bought out Bungee for this express purpose. Halo was a finished game, or very close to it, when they got bought out. Halo was roughly a year or two older than it should have been when it finally came out on the xbox, which would have made it a much more visually impressive shooter. Especially considering the alpha-videos they showed for the mac had levels that were five times larger than actual levels on the xbox, due to the fact that it had been planned as a more high-end game.

Marathon one and two's level design was more realistic to how an actual ship would be set up, which may not make for good gameplay, but made levels more believable. And their level design didn't really become awful till they made the third game. There is no excuse for being able to "accidentally" wander from the first stage to the last, skipping all the middle item-gathering-stages, with no way back except an entire new game.


I agree with you about Halo, I was just pointing out the slight irony.

Out of the series, I thought Marathon two had the best levels and best campaign gameplay. Marathon one was enjoyable, but sometimes you had no idea what the hell you were doing or where you were supposed to go. I'll take your word for Marathon 3, cause I haven't gotten past the first level, which is a bit confusing.

But as far as multiplayer goes, Marathon 3 wins in that department, and actually has an active multiplayer base.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:07 pm UTC

Re: The Marathon Screenshot.

Couldn't you fullscreen it beyond that? I mean... well, a lot of the screenshots you see for System Shock show this enormous hud that takes up most of the screen...
Spoiler:
Sshock1.gif


But.. you could fullscreen it beyond that and still have access to all of the buttons and knobs and do-hickies you needed, and it looked much better.
Spoiler:
sshock2.png
So.. wasn't Marathon the same way? I remember playing a demo of the game on a Mac in highschool (that's right, Kids.. I was a high school freshman (Year 9) in '94), and I don't recall that crap on the side..
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby CogDissident » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:25 am UTC

All the other screenshots available on the net use the newer interface from the xbox version, or are actually screenshots from Marathon Infinity (marathon 3) which came out 3 years after the Xbox. Basically, the differences are that Marathon has actual shading on the ground, and clearer resolution floors/walls. It doesn't show up well in screenshots, but playing the actual games you will notice a moderately large graphics jump.

But yes, you can fullscreen it and get rid of the stuff on the side, it certainly was in the options.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby lu6cifer » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:38 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Re: The Marathon Screenshot.

Couldn't you fullscreen it beyond that? I mean... well, a lot of the screenshots you see for System Shock show this enormous hud that takes up most of the screen...
Spoiler:
Sshock1.gif


But.. you could fullscreen it beyond that and still have access to all of the buttons and knobs and do-hickies you needed, and it looked much better.
Spoiler:
sshock2.png
So.. wasn't Marathon the same way? I remember playing a demo of the game on a Mac in highschool (that's right, Kids.. I was a high school freshman (Year 9) in '94), and I don't recall that crap on the side..



Sorry, I didn't have Marathon installed on the computer on which I was posting it...the screenshot is via google.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:05 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Re: The Marathon Screenshot.

Couldn't you fullscreen it beyond that? I mean... well, a lot of the screenshots you see for System Shock show this enormous hud that takes up most of the screen...
Spoiler:
Sshock1.gif


But.. you could fullscreen it beyond that and still have access to all of the buttons and knobs and do-hickies you needed, and it looked much better.
Spoiler:
sshock2.png
So.. wasn't Marathon the same way? I remember playing a demo of the game on a Mac in highschool (that's right, Kids.. I was a high school freshman (Year 9) in '94), and I don't recall that crap on the side..

I was only two years behind you. In high school we played Warcraft 2 on the networked Macs back when you could install a multiplayer-only client and the discs were combo Mac/Windows. It was pretty awesome.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby setzer777 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

Epic necro, I know.

I don't understand why people rave about KotOR so much, I couldn't really get into it. Yeah, the story is interesting enough, and it's cool having a Star Wars rpg, but the gameplay is just so simplistic - there are never any interesting decisions to be made in combat, and a lot of the Force powers seem ridiculously situational and/or obviously suboptimal.

I understand that some people play RPGs for the story instead of the gameplay, but if you're going to make it a video game you might as well try to make the most prevalent gameplay challenging in interesting ways.
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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:54 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:I don't understand why people rave about KotOR so much, I couldn't really get into it. Yeah, the story is interesting enough, and it's cool having a Star Wars rpg, but the gameplay is just so simplistic - there are never any interesting decisions to be made in combat, and a lot of the Force powers seem ridiculously situational and/or obviously suboptimal.


What I really disliked with Kotor is that they took an already simple system (D&D3 D20) and watered it the fuck down. Now the "strategy" is reduced to "oh, this fight is hard, I'll have to use some consumables", just like Spiderweb games.

Also Kotor2 had much better characters but still pretty bad gameplay.

Compare to ME3, where it's the reverse: good gameplay, terribad characters (who the hell is that angsty teen space magic ninja with "make everyone else idiots in cutscenes" powers and why is he sending me xbox-live worthy hatemail?), and terribad plot (why are half the important informations DLC? why is everyone so dumb? this ending is silly).

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby EmptySet » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:18 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:I don't understand why people rave about KotOR so much, I couldn't really get into it. Yeah, the story is interesting enough, and it's cool having a Star Wars rpg, but the gameplay is just so simplistic - there are never any interesting decisions to be made in combat, and a lot of the Force powers seem ridiculously situational and/or obviously suboptimal.


Balance in KotOR is pretty much non-existent. There are entire classes which are useless, skill points are useless because your minions can do everything for you, and as noted the Force powers are all over the shop.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Nylonathatep » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:37 am UTC

For those that said FF7 is over-rated, remember it was the first Final Fantasy in 3D. The plot is also heavy with symbolism(Especially Norse and Jewish mythology):

http://new-shinra87.livejournal.com/29362.html

http://www.angelfire.com/yt2/zforce6455/lit/ff7.html

Essencially Cloud being lifeless and without a personality was done on purpose, because He wasn't truely the person he claimed to be (He's not Zack, and never was in SOLDIER. Part of the reason why no one recognizes Cloud when he 'return' to the village). This was also the reason why Sephiroth easily controlled him in their first two confrountation. Cloud only came to this realization when he fell into the lifestream.

Perhapse having too much lore reference in the backstory made it obscure to the casual fan, but one would have his mind completely blown and go "oh suddenly everything makes sense!" if you dig deep and understand the themes the story is trying to make reference to.

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Re: Overrated Games (spoilers)

Postby Dark567 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:For those that said FF7 is over-rated, remember it was the first Final Fantasy in 3D. The plot is also heavy with symbolism(Especially Norse and Jewish mythology):
A Kotaku journalist who had never played through, played it through the first time a couple of years ago and wrote about it. Afterwards he basically thought it mostly lived up to hype.

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2 ... to-mi.html
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?


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