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Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:54 pm UTC
by GuitarFreak
Surprised I haven't seen this here yet.
http://digg.com/pc_games/Modern_Warfare ... PC_version

Call of Duty community manager Rob Bowling, also known as 'fourzerotwo', has confirmed in a podcast that the PC version of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 will not support user-created mods. Worse, it will not support dedicated servers. PC gamers will have to suffer peer-to-peer connections, just like their console-owning cousins.

Mr. Bowling could offer no defence for this move, and simply stated that: "The team's focusing on having it very equal on every platform" and "We're doing a lot of work on the back end."

Previous PC versions of CoD have supported dedicated servers. Their absence will apparently make the game "much more accessible to the PC community as a whole."


This basically kills competitive gaming on CoD and ruins MP. A whole lot of people are canceling their pre-orders. The petition is here if you want to sign it: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... i?dedis4mw

Re: CoD:MW2: No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:24 pm UTC
by Ixtellor
DAMN.

I hope this changes.

I bought my pre-order this weekend for the PC.

Was even thinking of taking that day off from work and playing online the whole day.


Ixtellor is my name.
CoD is my game.
"Rush, Plant, Win!" is my fame.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:55 pm UTC
by Gellert1984
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw

A petition for some changes to the PC version of MW2 exists, 70,000+ signatures already and I dont think its been up 48 hours yet, not that its likely to change anything mind...

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:15 pm UTC
by GuitarFreak
Well considering how long that petition has been up, I can see that hitting over 100k by tonight or tomorrow morning. That's over 4% of the total pre-orders and $6 million. Not an insignificant amount. Hopefully they'll listen.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:39 pm UTC
by aion7
I would be pissed if there weren't already a multitude of reasons for not buying it.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:44 am UTC
by BlackSails
I dont get what anyone gains from not having dedicated servers.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:16 am UTC
by peter
aion7 wrote:I would be pissed if there weren't already a multitude of reasons for not buying it.
Like what?

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:26 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
peter wrote:
aion7 wrote:I would be pissed if there weren't already a multitude of reasons for not buying it.
Like what?

Last I heard, they were planning to sell the PC version at $60 RRP.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:28 am UTC
by Axman
Pshaw. The cost of games hasn't gone up in over a decade, it's far behind inflation.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:48 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:04 am UTC
by tacticus
BlackSails wrote:I dont get what anyone gains from not having dedicated servers.

They can control what servers you see
So no custom maps or mods showing in the wonderful matchmaking

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:32 am UTC
by Gellert1984
tacticus wrote:
BlackSails wrote:I dont get what anyone gains from not having dedicated servers.

They can control what servers you see
So no custom maps or mods showing in the wonderful matchmaking


Also you cant change the limits on score or timing, normal, hardcore or arcade, the maps being played or the upper limit on the number of people playing, go have a look at how many players were supported in a multiplayer map on PS3, then compare it to PC.

I've heard nothing but shock from 2 of my friends who both play COD4 on PS3 about the sheer customisability of dedicated PC servers, it came up in conversation when they mentioned they had to buy the new maps PC owners got for free.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:52 pm UTC
by aion7
Amnesiasoft wrote:
peter wrote:Like what?
Last I heard, they were planning to sell the PC version at $60 RRP.
This, and that the gameplay does not appeal to me. Killstreaks and deathstreaks imbalance the game and feel unfair. Better weapons unlocking for people that play more artificially widens the gap between experienced and unexperienced players more than is necessary and very spray-y weaponry takes out a lot of the skill involved in playing FPS. I had all these grievances with the first Modern Warfare, and it does not appear that they are going away.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:57 am UTC
by Intercept
Plus there's just all of those general reasons to hate activision.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:49 am UTC
by Axman
Such as...

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:03 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
Image
If you need real reasons, I'm sure I can find some somewhere.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:34 am UTC
by LuNatic
Amnesiasoft wrote:Image
If you need real reasons, I'm sure I can find some somewhere.


How is that not a real reason?

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:18 am UTC
by GuitarFreak
Amnesiasoft wrote:Image
If you need real reasons, I'm sure I can find some somewhere.


Wow, I can't believe I never heard about him. I'm never buying another activision game as long as he's the CEO. What a dick.
For those of you who don't know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Kotick

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:26 am UTC
by LuNatic
Oh, I just thought that was a comment on the guitar hero franchise. That article explains a lot though.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:14 am UTC
by aeiss
http://www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activision’s-bobby-kotick-hates-developers-innovation-cheap-games-you/
Here's a good reason to hate him

Or rather, another compilation of.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:37 am UTC
by Jesse
You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:50 pm UTC
by Ixtellor
Why does the fact the boss is a dick matter?

I buy games based on their enjoyment. Now if the boss were a nazi or a grand dragon of the klan, maybe I would not buy a great game on principle... but being profit driven and pushing your employees hard... ?

CoD4 was AWSOME, so I will be buying modern warfare 2. (I already pre-ordered).

The whole no-dedicated server thing.. not sure how that is going to work out.

I really like the fact I can be a regular on a server and build up 'stats' and a reputation as a ruthless headshot machine.
Is this even possible without dedicated servers? or is it going to be a random group of strangers every time you log on with no continuity?

Ixtellor

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:55 pm UTC
by Amnesiasoft
Ixtellor wrote:Why does the fact the boss is a dick matter?

That's why I said I can probably find a real reason.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:51 pm UTC
by Kag
BlackSails wrote:I dont get what anyone gains from not having dedicated servers.

Jeff Gerstmann basically explained it in this week's Giant Bombcast (also he totally called it, apparently).

They're locking down profiles, which in theory will prevent piracy, meaning more sales (CoD4 was a HUGE target for piracy, no surprise they're trying to do something).
No more mods means they can sell more DLC.
Paid DLC means more money.

The amount of sales they're losing on this is negligible compared to the profits they're gaining by being dicks. It's Activision. It's what they do.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:00 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
Ixtellor wrote:Why does the fact the boss is a dick matter?

I buy games based on their enjoyment. Now if the boss were a nazi or a grand dragon of the klan, maybe I would not buy a great game on principle... but being profit driven and pushing your employees hard... ?
When the developer comes to the boss and says "Hey, we've been kicking around an idea about a time-traveling Princess from the 1700s who went back to 700 to learn the Viking ways then forward to 2700 to kill aliens with her Cherokee Samurai sidekick, and we actually got Neil Gaiman to sign up for writing the backstory, and we've got a prototype engine up and running already" and the boss says "That's cute. If you waste any more company time I'm firing the lot of you. Now fuck off and finish the Guitar Hero 6 setlist"...

The boss is directly affecting you, the gamer. And it matters.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:43 am UTC
by GuitarFreak
Jesse wrote:You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.


Fine with me. They haven't put out a game I'd play anyway. I don't like RPGs.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:27 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
Jesse wrote:You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.

That's fine with me as well, seeing as how I lost any interest in Diablo III when they dropped LAN play.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:33 am UTC
by Jesse
GuitarFreak wrote:
Jesse wrote:You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.


Fine with me. They haven't put out a game I'd play anyway. I don't like RPGs.


What? Are you actually saying that all you can think of that Blizzard has released is RPGs?

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:50 pm UTC
by Ixtellor
SecondTalon wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:Why does the fact the boss is a dick matter?

I buy games based on their enjoyment. Now if the boss were a nazi or a grand dragon of the klan, maybe I would not buy a great game on principle... but being profit driven and pushing your employees hard... ?
When the developer comes to the boss and says "Hey, we've been kicking around an idea about a time-traveling Princess from the 1700s who went back to 700 to learn the Viking ways then forward to 2700 to kill aliens with her Cherokee Samurai sidekick, and we actually got Neil Gaiman to sign up for writing the backstory, and we've got a prototype engine up and running already" and the boss says "That's cute. If you waste any more company time I'm firing the lot of you. Now fuck off and finish the Guitar Hero 6 setlist"...

The boss is directly affecting you, the gamer. And it matters.


That doesn't mean the game dies though. Programmers frequently leave their company to start a new one based on a game concept. I personally think all the Guitar hero games are boring, but clearly I am in the minority. If a boss has a billion dollar idea and his employees want to go rogue and start a "I had a cool idea video game" that might appeal to a fringe gamer group... I don't see a problem with the boss making sure that the masses get the "precious'es".

Your analogy could be the same in any industry. Is it better than Ford engineers work on making an awsome new Mustang or better for them to brainstrom and come up with Trarn 9000 ( A barn / Truck hybrid that can transform into a disco room).

At the end of the day the boss is responsible for making sure all the employees continue to get a paycheck and health insurance, if he thinks the princess gamer idea will jeopardize that....


Ixtellor

P.S. The Trarn 9000 is under copyright review so don't even think about it.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:35 pm UTC
by GuitarFreak
Jesse wrote:
GuitarFreak wrote:
Jesse wrote:You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.


Fine with me. They haven't put out a game I'd play anyway. I don't like RPGs.


What? Are you actually saying that all you can think of that Blizzard has released is RPGs?


Well, RTS's too. But going by this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_E ... ent#Titles they're pretty much all RPG's/RTS's. And I don't like either, so I don't care about Blizzard.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:56 pm UTC
by Xeio
Console gamer here, all but nigh affected. :mrgreen:

I also pre-ordered on amazon because they're offering a $20 coupon towards another game.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
by Token
SecondTalon wrote:When the developer comes to the boss and says "Hey, we've been kicking around an idea about a time-traveling Princess from the 1700s who went back to 700 to learn the Viking ways then forward to 2700 to kill aliens with her Cherokee Samurai sidekick, and we actually got Neil Gaiman to sign up for writing the backstory, and we've got a prototype engine up and running already" and the boss says "That's cute. If you waste any more company time I'm firing the lot of you. Now fuck off and finish the Guitar Hero 6 setlist"...

The boss is directly affecting you, the gamer. And it matters.

This seems like a slightly simplistic idea of what the game development process involves. Now, if you're working with a few friends over the internet creating a comparatively low tech but innovative game, then design and coding are likely to be handled by everyone, and probably no one even thinks the word "feasibility". However, big game developers (as in the corporate sense) operate like other big companies - with division of labour and a defined methodology for creating a new product. As Ixtellor says, you don't get everyone in the company round a table and say "So, what'd be a cool idea for a game? I know - time-travelling Viking princesses!" This is a stupid idea if you plan on continuing to be a multi-billion dollar company.

Rather, there is a multi-stage process which will already be fairly advanced before the first bit of code is compiled. This features such crazy things as market research, feasibility studies and cost-benefit analysis. This is entirely necessary if you are going to invest the kind of time and money into the rest of the development process that a big company (e.g. Activision) is going to do. Small, niche games are the province of small, niche developers. Big companies make big products.

Now, has our hypothetical game developer done any kind of marketability study as he presents his idea to their boss? If so, hurrah! Princess Gudrid And Sensei Awenasa Fuck Up Some Evil Martians is a potentially workable idea and is starting down the long and rocky road to being made. If not, and he's gone so far as to not only code a prototype before it's even known that to be worth it, but actually sign up a big-name writer, then he's probably lucky that his boss only threatened to fire him, and barely even swore at all. I agree that your hypothetical situation is ridiculous, not because Evil Bobby Kotick is simultaneously crushing both innovation and the souls of a million gamers beneath his toecapped jackboot, but because of the way this theoretical developer fails to understand what the company that employs him exists to do.

Fundamentally, it's the miracle of capitalism in a nutshell. Activision doesn't exist to provide a service to gamers by making innovative games, it exists to provide a service to its shareholders by making money. You, however, are free not only to NOT buy Modern Warfare 2 or Guitar Hero 5 if you don't want to, but to go out and set up your own company to hire Neil Gaiman and make your perfect game. But don't expect Activision to ignore the risk involved in making such a game - I'm pretty sure you wouldn't.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:26 am UTC
by aion7
Yes, it is quite idiotic to be angry about company practices that are bad for consumers. That's not how capitalism works. Capitalism works by everyone buying Activision products, because they have put a lot of time into them and how do you think they would feel if you didn't buy them.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:48 am UTC
by Xeio
aion7 wrote:Yes, it is quite idiotic to be angry about company practices that are bad for consumers. That's not how capitalism works. Capitalism works by everyone buying Activision products, because they have put a lot of time into them and how do you think they would feel if you didn't buy them.
Actually, in a good market, if they put out shit games, they make no money because people don't buy them. This isn't some magical fair land where they make money because people buy the games because they feel sorry for the company for making shit games...

Exactly what are you arguing anyway? You want to be angry at a company for putting out good games that don't support a feature you like a lot, fine, don't buy the game, but apparently the company thinks the feature won't hurt their bottom line. If anything the fact that there are people that complain about this and still buy the game anyway is the problem. Not to mention the fact that it only affect the PC gamer audience, since consoles already had the server limitations, so thats a good portion of their market that could care less. I support games I like by buying them, and ones I don't by not, it's a pretty good system. :P

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:01 pm UTC
by stormbringer_951
Only hardcore gamers will notice the absence of dedicated servers. I know I will. The unwashed masses (so to speak) don't even know what a dedicated server is, what's the difference between peer hosting and dedicated server hosting. Although I'm sure if I tell them that the host will fvck them over every single time in a game, they would notice.

Has anyone played games where one player hosts? It's a snafu, with him having 0 ping and therefore a significant advantage over everyone else.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:04 pm UTC
by Xeio
stormbringer_951 wrote:Only hardcore gamers will notice the absence of dedicated servers. I know I will. The unwashed masses (so to speak) don't even know what a dedicated server is, what's the difference between peer hosting and dedicated server hosting. Although I'm sure if I tell them that the host will fvck them over every single time in a game, they would notice.

Has anyone played games where one player hosts? It's a snafu, with him having 0 ping and therefore a significant advantage over everyone else.
I haven't noticed this consistently enough in modern warfare 1/halo 3 on the 360. I think it's quite well balanced (it helps that I can laugh at myself when I do something stupid, rather than blame it on lag/the game). It was quite noticeable in GoW1 though I haven't played enough of 2 online to gauge whether or not that has changed. For the most part though, I haven't noticed it in any recent games I've played as they generally user Peer-to-Peer rather than Single-Host.

Also, the dude from the podcast talking about the matchmaking seems like he has no clue wtf he's talking about, or at least, he doesn't know any of the technical details (i.e. all the stuff that's actually important). Has infinity ward actually made a statement on any of the technical details...?

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:53 pm UTC
by Kag
The quality of the experience is essentially dependent entirely on the netcode, yes.

Also, which dude? I haven't heard anyone on any podcast even pretending to know about technical details. IW obviously isn't going to talk about them.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:04 am UTC
by Vaniver
Yeah, I don't really understand disliking Kotick either. Yes, it's a shame that Activision doesn't produce a wide swath of innovative titles- but it's not like they have a monopoly on gaming. They exist to produce franchises, and to develop those franchises. And so if you're the sort of person who thinks that paying $5 a month to have a current version of Madden is reasonable, then you're the sort of person Activision is catering to. If you're not, that's what all the other game companies out there are for.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:39 am UTC
by aion7
Kag wrote:The quality of the experience is essentially dependent entirely on the netcode, yes.
In an online game, this is true. If KoF12 had a good netcode, for example, people could buy it without having to worry about finding someone nearby to play it with. When the majority of play expected from a game is online, a bad netcode can break the whole thing.

Re: Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2 - No Dedicated MP Servers

Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:50 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
Jesse wrote:
GuitarFreak wrote:
Jesse wrote:You do realise that Blizzard merged with Activision, so now you have to hate Blizzard too.
Fine with me. They haven't put out a game I'd play anyway. I don't like RPGs.
What? Are you actually saying that all you can think of that Blizzard has released is RPGs?
Blizzard makes RPGs?