Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:29 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:[Probably the old flash frost/snowcasting combo...but strictly speaking, I'm not aware of any official scry into the past sort of spells.


oh hey

It's level 9 and costs 1000Gp though.
You'll also have to message ("BAM! You're dead!") or detect evil the baby to specifically target him and start up the bunch of feats.

I find detect evil hilarious in that context (not evil? you are now! *fell drain*)

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:57 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:[Probably the old flash frost/snowcasting combo...but strictly speaking, I'm not aware of any official scry into the past sort of spells.


oh hey

It's level 9 and costs 1000Gp though.
You'll also have to message ("BAM! You're dead!") or detect evil the baby to specifically target him and start up the bunch of feats.

I find detect evil hilarious in that context (not evil? you are now! *fell drain*)


Well, that requires you be on the location...which isn't THAT big of a deal, but the bigger problem is that it doesn't target the baby. It's merely a "you gain information" spell, not a spell that allows interaction, as scry does. Therefore, there's no way to make the baby targeted.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby NoodleIncident » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:17 pm UTC

So what tabletop game should my friends and I start playing?

I've flipped through the new red box with my 11 year old sister, and our GM played some in high school, but most of the people in the group have never played before. Are there any games that you would recommend? Also, do you recommend starting with one of the basic Tolkien fantasy clone settings like DnD, or are there games in other settings that are better-balanced/more fun?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Dauric » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:47 am UTC

NoodleIncident wrote:So what tabletop game should my friends and I start playing?

I've flipped through the new red box with my 11 year old sister, and our GM played some in high school, but most of the people in the group have never played before. Are there any games that you would recommend? Also, do you recommend starting with one of the basic Tolkien fantasy clone settings like DnD, or are there games in other settings that are better-balanced/more fun?


This is a difficult question. It really depends on what you're looking for in a ruleset and a setting.

---Part 1: Rulesets---

My personal favorite is GURPS (Generic Universal Role Playing System) by Steve Jackson Games, currently in 4'th edition. The ruleset is heavy on character development (in a literary sense for 'character') and playing 'in character', so it's a bit of an improvisational theater game. It doesn't really have a built-in background, but is flexible enough to handle most settings you can imagine to throw at it, be they Tolkien-esque fantasy, sci-fi, modern conspiracy horror, magical etherium steampunk, etc. etc. etc. The character design system is just as flexible, rather than choosing classes that define your abilities you purchase abilities with a pool of points.

Not having a ready-built background though does mean there's an enormous amount of prep-work for the GM, an the rules are fairly "crunchy" (ie: there's a lot of number crunching, and ways of in-rules resolving most everything, even if it might be better abstracted). Also character generation and development is pretty in-depth, which means that GURPS is extremely not-forgiving to campaigns where frequent or casual character death is an expectation.

I'm big on designing my own game worlds, and I got in to RPGs with a bunch of theater geeks so the detailed character development appeals to me, which is why I favor GURPS myself, at least as a basic 'default' ruleset.

If you're in to giant-robot Anime, I recommend Mekton Zeta (get both the "Mekton Zeta" and "Mekton Zeta Plus" books at a minimum). The rules are long since out of print but you can still get the PDF files online for around the price of a basic set of anything else. R. Talsorian put out books for Bubblegum Crisis and Armored Trooper Votoms based on their Mekton Z rules but I think the licenses have expired as I can't find them for sale in PDF, Mobile Suit Gundam was supposed to be in the works, but R.Talsorian effectively went out of business before anything was finalized.

Battletech is good for giant robots with less of the Japanese anime feel, and Shadowrun is classic fantasy-cyberpunk. Both are published by Catalyst Game Labs

Traveller has a very extensive and detailed sci-fi setting, though I happen to find the game rules to be rubbish. In 2002 Steve Jackson Games published compiled Traveller sourcebooks for GURPS under license from GDW.

Beyond that I try to keep up with the latest edition of D&D if only because being the most popular game system it's the easiest to find players for.

---Part 2: Settings---

For beginning players I recommend Tolkien-esque fantasy. Primarily because if the GM says "You find a magical sword on the Orc" most people have the basic background information to know what is going on. If you're doing sci-fi and the GM says "the guard was carrying a Particle Omniblaster with Electrolaser settings and a mounted Enhanced Targeting Scope carried in a Power Holster", then there's a lot of additional explaining to do.

Not that any SF game wouldn't have that problem, but as a beginning player you're going to be having enough to do to remember how to resolve an individual attack dealing with relatively simple gear...
"I leap out of the shadows and stab him in the face with my sword"
"Okay, you've got a -5 penalty for the called shot to the face, and a -2 to hit for moving closer, but a +3 for catching the guard by surprise...."

...and the added complexity of even modern fighting equipment can make learning the basic concepts of an RPG difficult by adding all sorts of new layers of complexity.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Arrian » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:51 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:Battletech is good for giant robots with less of the Japanese anime feel, and Shadowrun is classic fantasy-cyberpunk. Both are published by Catalyst Game Labs

...

Beyond that I try to keep up with the latest edition of D&D if only because being the most popular game system it's the easiest to find players for.


Unless they've changed it in the latest release, Battletech is purely a wargame, no roleplaying. Mechwarrior is the RPG for the Battletech universe, and I figure it's probably about the same quality as Shadowrun since it came from the same people. Battletech is a great tabletop game: Pretty simple rules (that can get as complex as you want,) low requirements for minis or creating terrain, and you can create your own mechs if you want. The box set is what you want to start with since it gives you minis and maps.

For Tolkien-esque fantasy, I really like Pathfinder, and the Beginner Box is extremely accessible. There's also the Pathfinder Society organized play which hosts one shot games at local game stores. It's a great place to try out and learn a bit about the game with minimal investment (as long as you stay within the core rules when creating your character.) I think D&D has something similar called D&D Encounters.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:16 pm UTC

NoodleIncident wrote:So what tabletop game should my friends and I start playing?

I've flipped through the new red box with my 11 year old sister, and our GM played some in high school, but most of the people in the group have never played before. Are there any games that you would recommend? Also, do you recommend starting with one of the basic Tolkien fantasy clone settings like DnD, or are there games in other settings that are better-balanced/more fun?


There are kind of a lot of systems. It really, really depends on what you're looking for. D&D is a classic rules-heavy sword and sorcery system. If you want something a bit more narrative, and a bit lighter, 7th Sea is really fantastic in many ways.

If you like zany and hilarious, try out Paranoia.

If you want modern fantasy, try Dresden Files.

If you want dark horror, try Call of Cthulhu.

If you want non-magical modern, try D20 Modern, though I suggest scrapping the wealth system.

If you want casual fun without many rules, try Everyone is John.

There's a million more, really.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:25 pm UTC

If you want mice with swords (AWESOME) play Mouse Guard!
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Dauric » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:24 am UTC

Arrian wrote:Unless they've changed it in the latest release, Battletech is purely a wargame, no roleplaying. Mechwarrior is the RPG for the Battletech universe


The latest rules for Battletech have been compiled in to five rather massive volumes that are considered the "Core rules" for the current edition, the fifth of which ("A Time of War") is the RPG rules.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Thu May 16, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

I'm looking for comments on this Enterprise system for RPGs:

RPG Enterprise rules.

Enterprises have a SCALE and a SIZE.

A SCALE is a power of 10 in whatever currency units the RPG uses (so, gp in D&D).

A SIZE is a multiplier on the SCALE.

So a SIZE 5 SCALE 100 gp enterprise has a capital value of 500 gp.

SIZE varies from 2 to 19. If you gain SIZE beyond 19, you instead go up a SCALE and are now SIZE 2. Similarly, if you shrink below SIZE 2, you instead lose a SCALE and go up to SIZE 19.

Capital in a enterprise can be liquidated over a month as much as you like, but you lose half of the value of the enterprise. Similarly, you can "throw money' at a enterprise, but you lose half of it by default.

Each month the enterprise is active, you roll Xd6, where X is the SIZE of your enterprise.

Each ODD value represents a loss of 1 size.
Each EVEN value represents a gain of 1 size.

Both of these can change based on your actions that month.

Now, count how many 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s and 6s.
1s: Opportunity to Protect
2s: Divest
3s: Upkeep
4s: Dividends
5s: Invest
6s: Opportunity to Grow

For now, ignore the 1s and 6s.

Each 2 means you can sell 1 unit of SIZE at full value.
Each 5 means you can buy 1 unit of SIZE without paying double.

Each 3 means you owe the value of 1 unit of size in cash to keep the enterprise afloat.
Each 4 means you gain the value of 1 unit of size in cash.

You may also have an opportunity. You can only exploit one each month.

1s represent an ability to stop your shrinkage from odd dice this month. The number of 1s is the "length" of the adventure required to stop it, and the scale determines the "level". (use your games WBL/Reward charts to map between scale and level). (or it could be a shorter, higher level one, or a longer, lower level one)

6s represent an ability to double your growth from even dice this month. The number of 6s is also the "length", and the "level" is based off of the scale of your enterprise. (or it could be a shorter, higher level one, or a longer, lower level one)

---

The design goal is for your enterprise to randomly grow/shrink, and throw off adventure hooks which (if exploited) make your business grow handily.

An Enterprise can be a ship, a merchant fleet, a castle and surrounding ground being taken from the wilderness, a thieves guild, a magic item shop, or even a bank lending money to other folks. An opportunity to protect for a bank might be someone defaulting on a loan, and you can track them down -- an opportunity to grow for a homestead might be a nearby community asking for help from attacks of orcs, and offering at least some fealty if you help.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Kexizzoc » Fri May 17, 2013 12:26 am UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:If you want mice with swords (AWESOME) play Mouse Guard!


Mouse Guard is incredible. I'm currently running a game with my girlfriend that I both Storytell and play in. That sounds like a miserable idea, and in D&D it probably would be, but the beauty of Mouse Guard is that the story is totally driven by your successes and failures. It's hard NOT to derail things when your mouse rolled so badly that HE MADE IT RAIN.

I'm actually running a blog where I document this campaign fiction, but the spam rules here won't let me post the link until I have a bit more cred.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Ralith The Third » Fri May 17, 2013 5:13 am UTC

So this particular ruleset looks pretty cool. Like DnD 3.5 in a lot of ways only with a lot of the idiotic systems removed, and a supremely excellent multiclass/powerrace system and level-to-level balancing (that is, any two characters of a given level should contribute similiarly to a group.)

Going to try to convince some friend to let me run it for'em.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Coin » Fri May 17, 2013 9:28 am UTC

Yakk wrote:I'm looking for comments on this Enterprise system for RPGs:
RPG Enterprise rules.


Sounds like an interesting set-up! In the end the proof of the pudding is in the eating and a good round of play testing will straighten out any kinks in the system.
I would just sit down with the dice and just roll a couple of times to see what outcomes you get and try to explain them/build a suitable task around them to see how it goes, but I guess you've probably already done that =)
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Xanthir » Fri May 17, 2013 10:16 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:I'm looking for comments on this Enterprise system for RPGs:

I also think it sounds pretty interesting! A bit random-walky, but not too crazy, and the opportunities bias it towards growing and paying out more than you put in. I wouldn't mind seeing how it works in practice.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Coin » Fri May 17, 2013 11:01 pm UTC

After a bit of thinking I've come to the conclusion that I like it because it makes the enterprise a source of adventure rather than a simulation of what it would be like to run such an enterprise. It cuts micromanagement and affords the group of players more freedom. It doesn't hold you back.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Vaniver » Sat May 18, 2013 10:33 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:The design goal is for your enterprise to randomly grow/shrink, and throw off adventure hooks which (if exploited) make your business grow handily.

An Enterprise can be a ship, a merchant fleet, a castle and surrounding ground being taken from the wilderness, a thieves guild, a magic item shop, or even a bank lending money to other folks. An opportunity to protect for a bank might be someone defaulting on a loan, and you can track them down -- an opportunity to grow for a homestead might be a nearby community asking for help from attacks of orcs, and offering at least some fealty if you help.
I like this central idea, and how you have one simple measure of value which will make this accessible, even for people who don't like managing portfolios of assets. (I would totally be down for a fantasy asset management company game, though.)

I'm not sure I like that the variability behaves oddly around scale boundaries. A 2*100 g enterprise and a 19*10 g enterprise are only separated by 10 g, but the first has a new value ranging from 18*10 (a 10% loss) to 4*100 (a 100% gain), and the second has a new value ranging from 18*1 (a 90% loss) to 18*100 (a 847% gain). Both of those extreme values are very unlikely, but swings of larger size than are possible at size 2 are fairly likely.

The more serious concern is that size 2 enterprises have much more constrained options than size 19 enterprises. Mismatch between upkeep and dividends is more likely, opportunities are much less likely, and so on.

That suggests to me that a fixed pool of dice is a potential positive change.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Sun May 19, 2013 3:11 am UTC

Ya, I have been thinking about a 7d6 varient where duplicate dice indicate adventure hooks.

With maybe dice colors of small medium and large...

Or maybe die size changing with mini scale of dice.

10 scale seems too big, so I was thinking about a sub step of 3.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:50 am UTC

Anyone else pick up the new book on D&D -- "Of Dice and Men".

Written by an avid player and actual reporter who did a lot of research on history of the game.

The history is fascinating, that's about half the book. The other half is him explaining the game
and what its like to be a player. (nerd, shunned)

Good book.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Enokh » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:57 pm UTC

A nice shiny new something called The God Machine Chronicles (GMC)was released by White Wolf as an update to New World of Darkness (they asked to make a new version of WoD but CCP rejected it). The rules update is available for free here: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1 ... les-Update

You have to have an account to download it, but meh.

The God Machine has been hinted at or referenced for almost the entirety of New World of Darkness, and damn is it a cool story. They've also released something called Blood and Smoke: The Strix Chronicles, which is the GMC update for Vampire. It changes a bit, actually; revamps (hah) Disciplines on a not-insignificant level, makes the game feel. . .darker. Everything GMC is darker. nWoD, especially Vampire, always felt like it was living in the shadow of it's predecessor, but it's now finally it's own game. As of now, a Werewolf GMC and a Mage GMC book are scheduled, as well as a Covenant book for Vampire.

Perhaps the largest change is that buying up stats is now a flat cost. Whereas before it was New Dot x 4 XP for Attributes, it's just 4 XP now, whether it's the second or the fifth. You get XP way slower, though, so it's not quite as crazy as it sounds. But the amount of saving up you had to do in the last game was awful -- I wanted Mind 5 for a Mage game I was in and literally didn't spend a single point of XP for a good 5 sessions to get it, and we got XP REALLY fast in that game sometimes.

It's also interesting in that, for Vampire, buying up Strength costs 4 XP, but buying up Vigor costs either 3 or 4 depending on if it's in-Clan or out-of-Clan, so it's ALWAYS better to buy up Vigor now (one of the changes is that, for every dot of Vigor you have, you ALWAYS get an extra die to ALL Strength dicepools, plus Vigor has some neat other benefits)

In any case, just figured I'd toss this out there.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:59 pm UTC

Me and another engineering friend ran math about gold carrying and came to this conclusion:

as a rule of thumb, you are actually more constricted by carry weight, than you are by space.

we came to this after our dm gave us a HUGE pile of gold to carry (100,000 gp)

the standard weight for them is 50 gp per pound.

whole pile weighs 2000 pounds.

I had the tensers floating disk ability, and wanted to see how much i could feasibly stack on it without it falling off.

being back of char sheet estimates, i roughed alot of it.

4 coins stacked on top of one another will equal one square inch.

25,000 cubic inches = 14.4 cubic foot.

not too terribly big at all.

seperated between various characters backpacks, bags of holding, on the disk, etc, it became apparent that physical space was a non issue. weight however, was.

My bard, with a carry weight of around 50 pounds remaining after gear, can only hold about 2500 gold before suffering effects.

I know this whole thing goes in a bit of a loop and doesn't have a real point, but i found it ineresting, and teh calculations may help you guys out.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:34 pm UTC

So you are saying that gold is really dense?

Yes, gold is very dense.

If you watch robbery movies with gold bars, you see people grabbing 1 of them at a time. Because gold is *dense*.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Tomlidich the second » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:20 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:So you are saying that gold is really dense?

Yes, gold is very dense.

If you watch robbery movies with gold bars, you see people grabbing 1 of them at a time. Because gold is *dense*.

well yes.

but dense as in a weight of almost exactly 138.8 pounds per cubic foot.

Precision is important in these matters.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:28 pm UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:well yes.

but dense as in a weight of almost exactly 138.8 pounds per cubic foot.

Precision is important in these matters.


The real density of gold is something like 1200 pounds per cubic foot. D&D is almost an order of magnitude off or their coins are MUCH smaller that we'd expect. Maybe the gold coins we get in D&D are actually the size of dimes.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby PeteP » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:42 pm UTC

So some friends of mine - Or rather aquaintances and one friend, I know them over that friend and they seem nice but I don't know them well enough to call them friends - …Anyway they plan to try out D&D and I will take part. Thing is non of us has ever played D&D before, i fear even character creation will take forever. Any tips? Does it make sense to search for some prebuilt module?

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:22 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Tomlidich the second wrote:well yes.

but dense as in a weight of almost exactly 138.8 pounds per cubic foot.

Precision is important in these matters.


The real density of gold is something like 1200 pounds per cubic foot. D&D is almost an order of magnitude off or their coins are MUCH smaller that we'd expect. Maybe the gold coins we get in D&D are actually the size of dimes.
A bit bigger than dimes, but yeah, 470 cubic millimeters is smaller than most other coins.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:45 pm UTC

Last time I did coin physics for D&D, I made gp to be the size of dimes, silver pieces the size of quarters (and they had the thickness required to have the same weight).

Mithril pieces where also the size of dimes, floated in salt water (but sunk in fresh water), and where worth 1000x as much as gold pieces. Mithril armor/weapons where actually a mithril-steel alloy.

There where also platnium and gold imperials (larger then GPs both, and worth more), and copper pieces (same size, bit thicker than a sp, so same weight).
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Deva » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:10 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:So some friends of mine - Or rather aquaintances and one friend, I know them over that friend and they seem nice but I don't know them well enough to call them friends - …Anyway they plan to try out D&D and I will take part. Thing is non of us has ever played D&D before, i fear even character creation will take forever. Any tips? Does it make sense to search for some prebuilt module?

Which edition? Fourth?

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby PeteP » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:04 pm UTC

Deva wrote:
PeteP wrote:So some friends of mine - Or rather aquaintances and one friend, I know them over that friend and they seem nice but I don't know them well enough to call them friends - …Anyway they plan to try out D&D and I will take part. Thing is non of us has ever played D&D before, i fear even character creation will take forever. Any tips? Does it make sense to search for some prebuilt module?

Which edition? Fourth?

(Sidenote: One thousand posts. When does the first jelly arrive?)

I guess, or would you recommend one of the older editions? (Or an entirely different game, I guess I could suggest another game with a similar setting if it's more noob friendly or better.)

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:08 pm UTC

Really old editions of D&D are really easy to create characters, as do many clones.

Roll 3d6 6 times in order. Discard if incompetent (there are rules covering it: basically if you qualify for no classes).

Pick a class you qualify for. Buy gear and/or get assigned spells.

Wander into dungeon to seek your fortune.

Later editions have produced more "character creation" gameplay. This gives you lots of stuff to do while *not* playing, but can get in the way of *playing*.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:17 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:
Deva wrote:
PeteP wrote:So some friends of mine - Or rather aquaintances and one friend, I know them over that friend and they seem nice but I don't know them well enough to call them friends - …Anyway they plan to try out D&D and I will take part. Thing is non of us has ever played D&D before, i fear even character creation will take forever. Any tips? Does it make sense to search for some prebuilt module?

Which edition? Fourth?

(Sidenote: One thousand posts. When does the first jelly arrive?)

I guess, or would you recommend one of the older editions? (Or an entirely different game, I guess I could suggest another game with a similar setting if it's more noob friendly or better.)
It can be tough to make recommendations without really knowing what you want out of a game. And, of course, it can be tough for a group that's never played something before to have an idea of what they want.

BUT, as far as something I think is pretty friendly to new players and similar setting, I heartily recommend Dungeon World. It's pretty straightforward, the text for how to run it is great and if you're iffy you can take a look at the entire text of the book online thanks to it being released under a CC license: http://book.dwgazetteer.com/ Also, there's a pretty good online community for the game to help you get into it.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Deva » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:08 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:I guess, or would you recommend one of the older editions? (Or an entirely different game, I guess I could suggest another game with a similar setting if it's more noob friendly or better.)

Shrugs. Played few systems. Cannot comment.

Detailed character creation below. Used the Fourth Edition character sheet here. See page 30-31 of the Player’s Handbook for help, especially page numbers.


Definition: 2d6 = Roll two six-sided dice.

Level: 1, hopefully.

Classes: Splits them into four types.
- Controller: Offense. Specializes in large groups of enemies. May weaken enemies also.
- Defender: Tank. Penalizes monsters for targeting other party members.
- Leader: Support. Heals or bolsters other party members. Decent defense.
- Striker: Offense. Excels at single target.

Code: Select all

              Role Major Attributes
Cleric      Leader       Wis or Str
Fighter   Defender      Str and Con
Paladin   Defender       Str or Cha
Ranger     Striker       Str or Dex
Rogue      Striker  Dex and Str/Cha
Warlock    Striker       Cha or Con
Warlord     Leader  Str and Cha/Int
Wizard  Controller  Int and Wis/Dex

Str = Strength, Dex = Dexterity, Con = Constitution, Int = Intelligence, Wis = Wisdom, Cha = Charisma.
Lists three major attributes for classes in the player’s handbook. Glanced over each class. Edited it.

Supports two build types per class. Outlines each there. Suggests feats, skills, and powers under each build. Recommends reading both.

Paragon Path/Epic Destiny: Do not bother.

Race:

Code: Select all

           Attribute Bonuses      Speed                   Description
Dragonborn    +2 Str, +2 Cha  6 squares                 Dragon Person
Dwarf         +2 Con, +2 Wis  5 squares Short, tough mountain dweller
Eladrin       +2 Dex, +2 Int  6 squares                  Mystical Elf
Elf           +2 Dex, +2 Wis  7 squares        Slender forest dweller
Half-Elf      +2 Con, +2 Cha  6 squares          Half human, half elf
Halfling      +2 Dex, +2 Cha  6 squares                   Short nomad
Human          +2 to any one  6 squares                       Obvious
Tiefling      +2 Int, +2 Cha  6 squares                Demonic Humans

Possesses further powers and bonuses. Listed major ones.

Alignment: Indicates moral principles.
- Good: Freedom and kindness
- Lawful Good: Civilization and order
- Evil: Tyranny and hatred
- Chaotic Evil: Entropy and destruction
- Unaligned: No alignment

Deity: Optional for non-clerics. See page 21.

(Placed Initiative after this)

Ability Scores: Roll 4d6. Remove the lowest roll. Record it. Roll six scores total. Distribute them as you wish. Remember to add your race’s bonuses afterward.

Code: Select all

      Abil Mod
2-3         -4
4-5         -3
6-7         -2
8-9         -1
10-11        0
12-13       +1
14-15       +2
16-17       +3
18-19       +4
20-21       +5


Initiative: Affects when you attack. Place your dexterity modifier here. May receive other bonuses.

Hit Points: Health. See your class.
Healing Surge (and per day): See your class. Allows you to heal in and out of combat.

Skills: (Mostly) Out of combat skills. Fill in your ability modifiers first. May train skills for an additional +5 bonus. See “Trained Skill” at your class’s page. Tells you what can and cannot be trained.

Defenses: Fill in as directed.
- AC: Armor Class. Improves with armor.
- Fortitude: Use either strength’s or constitution’s ability modifier. (Pick the best.)
- Reflex: Dexterity’s or Intelligence’s modifier. Receives a bonus from shields.
- Will: Wisdom’s or Charisma’s modifier.

Action Points: 1. Grants a one-time extra action in battle. Receives them at the dungeon master's discretion.

Race/Class Features: See your class’s relevant page.

Attack/Damage Workspace: For frequent, specific attacks. Optional.

Basic Attacks:
Melee basic attack: Strength modifier versus Armor Class. Weapon Damage + Strength ability modifier.
Ranged basic attack: Dexterity modifier versus Armor Class. Weapon Damage + Dexterity ability modifier.
(Usually uses At-Will powers, however. Mentions those later.)

Feats: See pages 196-197. Details prerequisites and benefits.

At-Will Powers: Unlimited use per battle.
Encounter Powers: One use per battle.
Daily Powers: One use per day.
See your class for available powers. Choose two at-will powers, one encounter power, and one daily power (at first level). Gains some through race too. Does not count towards your allotted powers.

Useful terms:
- Blast X: Affects creatures in an X by X square. Must be adjacent to your character.
- Close Burst X: Affects all creatures within X squares of you.
- Wall X: Choose X squares for your wall. Allows non-straight walls. Must share a side (not a corner) with a least one other square of the wall. (Permits |_| walls, but not \/ walls.)

Inventory/Gold: Starts with 100 gold pieces. 1 gold = 10 silver = 100 copper. Must be proficient in a weapon/armor to use it without penalty. (Mentions that under your class.) Lists equipment starting on page 214.
Light armor: Add your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier when calculating armor class.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:18 am UTC

PeteP wrote:
Deva wrote:
PeteP wrote:So some friends of mine - Or rather aquaintances and one friend, I know them over that friend and they seem nice but I don't know them well enough to call them friends - …Anyway they plan to try out D&D and I will take part. Thing is non of us has ever played D&D before, i fear even character creation will take forever. Any tips? Does it make sense to search for some prebuilt module?

Which edition? Fourth?

(Sidenote: One thousand posts. When does the first jelly arrive?)

I guess, or would you recommend one of the older editions? (Or an entirely different game, I guess I could suggest another game with a similar setting if it's more noob friendly or better.)

4th Ed D&D has a "red box" starter set which isn't a terrible idea if none of you know what you're doing - includes streamlined character creation and a starter adventure, and is mostly compatible with other published adventures and the D&D Essentials line - it's not perfect - and not quite 100% compatible with any other D&D product - but it's a lot easier as a starting point than buying 3 rulebooks and an adventure module.

Pathfinder gets very good reviews and also has a "Beginner Box" that I've heard good things about - since Pathfinder is basically "D&D 3.5 with some of the holes patched and things generally done right" done by people who liked 3.5 and didn't like the direction 4th Ed took. As with the 4th Ed red box, the Pathfinder Beginner Box comes with everything you'd need for your first adventure and some ideas for how to continue. It includes sample characters, so character generation could be as simple as copying them onto the blank character sheets...

One of the big secrets of tabletop RPGs is that what system you use is fairly unimportant - a good GM can make just about any system work, and no system can make a bad GM good. There are some things that make some systems better or worse, but they tend to be fairly subtle differences...

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:34 am UTC

Er, what? Sounds like you are saying that all systems are essentially the same, but with subtle differences.

Subtle differences is Pathfinder to D&D 3.X.

Pathfinder and World of Darkness are about as similar as monkeys and wolves.

And then there's the even more off the wall stuff that is like comparing cows to meteors.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:02 pm UTC

What ST said. I've played a fair number of tabletop rpgs (50 or so) and I'm hard-pressed to pair any two of them together and describe them as having only subtle differences. Heck, even between editions most games have more than just subtle differences (with the exception of something like D&D 3/3.5/Pathfinder).
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:28 pm UTC

Yeah, while it may be true that people usually play RPGs for the story and other aspects that the quality of the GM can make or break, I think calling the differences intrinsic to the systems themselves "subtle" is a pretty extraordinary understatement.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Adam H » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:48 pm UTC

There's probably a bit of the connoisseur effect going on here. "Subtle" means different things to different people, and we're talking about a first time RPer here.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:58 pm UTC

Hate to pile on top of the guy but there really are huge differences between a lot of systems. That being said the idea that 'system doesn't matter' is quite a popular idea in RPG communities... it's just... completely wrong. I don't think it's a connoisseur effect. No one is saying there is leagues of difference between D&D editions or D&D and some other standard gamist d20 system. But to not recognise differences between D&D and, say, Universalis is something else entirely.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:02 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:There's probably a bit of the connoisseur effect going on here. "Subtle" means different things to different people, and we're talking about a first time RPer here.
Perhaps, but I think there's also a matter of wider or narrower experiences at play. If you've only ever played D&D and games with very similar mechanics to D&D, then even if you are a snobby connoisseur of that narrow range of games, you may admit that most of the differences would be fairly subtle to a complete newcomer. Just like if you're a connoisseur of a narrow range of wines or cheeses or anything else. As a self-aware connoisseur of, say, English stout beers you would probably admit that, among people with little to no experience with beer, the differences probably seem pretty subtle. But that doesn't mean there's anything terribly subtle about the differences between a very bitter, high-alcohol IPA and a low-ABV wheat beer, even among people who know next to nothing about beer.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:12 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Hate to pile on top of the guy but there really are huge differences between a lot of systems. That being said the idea that 'system doesn't matter' is quite a popular idea in RPG communities... it's just... completely wrong. I don't think it's a connoisseur effect. No one is saying there is leagues of difference between D&D editions or D&D and some other standard gamist d20 system. But to not recognise differences between D&D and, say, Universalis is something else entirely.
Heh, I almost posted that article, but Ron can be a bit polarizing at times, so I decided not to.

Needless to say, I agree with pretty much everything he put in that article.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:20 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:Hate to pile on top of the guy but there really are huge differences between a lot of systems. That being said the idea that 'system doesn't matter' is quite a popular idea in RPG communities... it's just... completely wrong. I don't think it's a connoisseur effect. No one is saying there is leagues of difference between D&D editions or D&D and some other standard gamist d20 system. But to not recognise differences between D&D and, say, Universalis is something else entirely.
Heh, I almost posted that article, but Ron can be a bit polarizing at times, so I decided not to.

Needless to say, I agree with pretty much everything he put in that article.


I don't really get why it is so polarizing, but I'm guessing it's something along the lines of why people can get so angry for others liking things they hate, or hating things they like. Ron's ideas about GNS and System don't exist to disparage any systems, they exist to set all systems in their appropriate context so all quality systems can flourish in their own right (and afaik, Ron doesn't make any grandiose prescriptivist claims, GNS is just one descriptive analysis among many).


Edit:
As an aside, I both read and do a lot of RPG and game mechanic analysis stuff but I've actually played very little amount of RPGs. Mostly because my gaming intent is completely at odds with virtually everyone I know who plays RPGs. I'm an Author-stance Character-exploring Simulationist who prefers Karma systems (but is fine with Fortune) which doesn't sound bad... but it's really in the implementation of how I experience my simulationist game intent.

I couldn't play a real life game with this intent, it's not enough time to get in the mind set and really feel the character. I need to play play-by-post and I spend hours pouring over the minutiae of my wording, ensuring that my character would actually say and act in exactly that way (at more than just a personality level, but considering her whole life's experiences), and focusing on experiencing the thoughts and emotions in incredible detail. Play-by-post is notorious for not working out and even then most other play-by-posters aren't in it for the same thing, so it's virtually impossible to find anyone who is looking for the same thing, let alone a GM who is looking to provide a immersive simulationist experience.
Last edited by Gelsamel on Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:27 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Tomlidich the second wrote:well yes.

but dense as in a weight of almost exactly 138.8 pounds per cubic foot.

Precision is important in these matters.


The real density of gold is something like 1200 pounds per cubic foot. D&D is almost an order of magnitude off or their coins are MUCH smaller that we'd expect. Maybe the gold coins we get in D&D are actually the size of dimes.


this makes sense in that case.

pushes it even further into the "calculate by weight and ignore the physical room" realm.

edit: as far as i know, they never published the actual physical size of the coins did they?
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