Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:19 pm UTC

hendusoone wrote:Bardic Training - Gain Ritual Caster feat and perform one bard ritual per day without expending components.

It's right there, on my wonderfully-generated character sheet. So... looks like at least one class already has that sort of thing.

As someone who actually plays a bard--albeit only twice so far--I should have remembered that.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:26 pm UTC

The one thing I'm curious about - if you drop Ritual Casting for Alchemy and are a Bard... do you get one free alchemical product per day?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Vaniver » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:32 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Which I wish I could still find a copy of the nice rant I read quite some time ago on the 3.X Rogue, and how completely fucked over they were by the game mechanics and fellow player expectation.
The one Gno Interference wrote?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:16 am UTC

Background:
I am in the midst of designing a Gun Mage prestige class for my own campaign setting (the three classes of that name that I've found on the intarwebz don't agree with me, but the flavour does!) and I need some help on prerequisites.

My take on the Gun Mage is a very wild sort of combatant - a man waltzing across the battlefield, unloading his lead-belching mechanical contraptions every which way. Unlike the Arcane Archer (a class I detest), my Gun Mage is not the "cast spells through your weapon" type; that smacks too much of "wizard with firearm proficiency", which is easily done without a prestige class. Rather, he uses his arcane skills (alongside knowledge of alchemy and metal casting) to get around the limitations of Renaissance-era firearms, allowing him to wield a pistol like he's a supporting character in The Matrix. :D

In terms of flavour, humans possess the flexibility to acquire the wide range of skills required by the class, while gnomes (as lovers of mechany, alchemy, and the arcane arts) think it's about the coolest thing humans have ever come up with and are equally likely to take levels in the class.

In terms of game abilities (as opposed to RP), the Gun Mage is a path for arcane casters who want to use their existing skills to turn themselves into devastating ranged combatants. The Gun Mage's arcane spellcasting should be weaker by some margin than that of a pure caster, but he should have offensive options not available to any Wizard. Compared to an archer build (say a character with levels in Rogue and/or Fighter), the Gun Mage should have a shorter range, poorer defensive options (no armour or Evasion-type abilities), and no stealth capacity (his weapon obviously making stealth very, very difficult); but he should have a similar or higher capacity for sheer damage-dealing, as well as his spellcasting ability.

In terms of balance, that horrible concept, I don't expect my Gun Mage to live up to the phenomenal power granted 20th-level arcanists - but I do want him powerful enough to be an asset in a team.

Question:
I want to design the class so that it is almost exclusively geared towards human and gnome sorcerors, but I have a fundamental distaste for race and class as PrC prerequisites - I want anyone to potentially be able to take the class, just not be as good at it as a human/gnome Sorceror would be. What combination of feats, skills, and other prerequisites can I use to make it very difficult (if not impossible) for non-human/-gnome characters to take this class before level 11? And what abilities could I give the class that just makes it better if the character's a Sorceror rather than a Wizard or some other arcane caster?

I want the class to pretty much require that the character be a human or gnome, whereas I only want it to favour (not require) a Sorceror - not outright exclude Wizards, Bards, and other arcanists. I've already got a mechanism in place that (somewhat) favours Sorcerors over Wizards, and one that favours humans over other races, but I'd like to hear what y'all think. :)
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:02 am UTC

Well, you could base the class abilities on Charisma.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:46 pm UTC

Fair enough. (I sort of did, already, but didn't realise that's what I was doing.)

Anyone else?

EDIT: Actually, Maseiken, you make a great point there, because I would think a Bard (having a taste for the exotic) still more likely to take up the class than a Wizard.

I think you just pretty much solved half of my problem. :)
Last edited by henre on Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby d0nk3y_k0n9 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

The easiest way to favor humans over other races (in my opinion) is probably to make it require a higher number of feats to either get the class or to make it work well. That way humans (with their bonus feat at 1st level) can get to the prestige class or use it effectively earlier than everyone else.

I have no idea how to favor gnomes.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:00 pm UTC

Have you read the Gun Mage from the Iron Kingdoms setting released under the OGL? I can put up some of the details from that if you'd think it would help.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:00 pm UTC

Ugh, I haven't played 3.5 in too long to give specific hints on gnomes, but is there some gnomish racial feature that there is also a feat for? So either you're human, and that makes it easier to afford the feat, or you're a gnome, and you don't need it.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:04 pm UTC

By the same token, requiring lots of skill ranks also favours humans (particularly if the skills in question are cross-class, which is when it becomes really expensive to take skills you wouldn't otherwise just so you can take the PrC).

Gnomes have bonuses to alchemy, but I can't see how that can be used as a barrier to entry (because it's not ranks, see). Similarly, they get to cast arcane spells without even having a single level of spellcasting, but that doesn't really work either (as far as I can tell).

I have read the IK Gun Mage (in fact, I have it in PDF), and while there are some aspects that I find cute (like the whole gun-taking-damage thing, also the word "magelock pistol" :D), I don't like the class much.

I did think about feats. I think, at the end of the day, I might make firearms "gnome blackpowder pistol" and "gnome blackpowder rifle" and give gnomes weapon familiarity with them. Or something.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:17 am UTC

Well, if Gnome have an affinity for alchemy, you could make Alchemy central to the class.

Black powder falls under the alchemical purview after all.

Alternatively, you could give them one or two Illusion spells, which I believe Gnomes have an affinity for.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:01 am UTC

I guess I've got most of the answers now, thanks! :)

Two words: fuck Fourth.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:44 pm UTC

henre wrote:I guess I've got most of the answers now, thanks! :)

Two words: fuck Fourth.

Quite.


Ok guys, I am planning an EPIC stunt for both the Hunter and Exalted games I am currently in.

Or rather, WE are planning one. My brand new girlfriend and me!

Y'see, before we started dating (this week) we already knew eachother from just about every game we're in, BUT (and it's a big but), no-one else in these games know we're dating, AND our characters in both games are romantically intertwined (Yeah, subtext is fun). ALSO, these two games have different players, except for us two.





SOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I think you can guess what we're planning, but in case you can't, I'll spell it out for you.
We're going to RP a scene together, and then when our characters kiss in said scene, we will actually, physically make out. In front of everyone. This is how we're going to officially announce that we're dating.
Is this awesome? y/n?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Jessica » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:51 pm UTC

No, I don't think it's really awesome.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby setzer777 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:24 pm UTC

Eh, whatever. I wouldn't think much of it either way, though some people might not appreciate a make out session during their game session.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:25 pm UTC

Eh, fair enough, maybe I got caught up in the moment.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Which I wish I could still find a copy of the nice rant I read quite some time ago on the 3.X Rogue, and how completely fucked over they were by the game mechanics and fellow player expectation.
The one Gno Interference wrote?
That's the one. Shame the images are gone on his DM rant too.

Anyway, I don't think he was 100% right, but he did make some very nice points of which I vaguely recall. Things about how the rogue, who's primary save is Reflex, goes up against magical traps that usually attack fortitude or will. And how the rogue, with all the skillpoints they have, without something like a 16 int. end up with fewer skills than the fighter: the argument being that as the party rogue, you have to max out disable device, hide, move silent, sleight of hand, and so on.. and to be effective in combat, you have to max out bluff and tumble so as to get the sneak attacks - the end result being that of your 8+int skill points, you don't actually get to pick but one skill.

And, of course, you're a midline armor wearer being thrust into the frontline of combat. Sure, you're not wearing cloth, but what you are wearing isn't much better - and while that +4 to AC your dex gives you is nice, it's on the road to being outclassed by level 3 or so.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:57 pm UTC

SexxxyTalon, if you manage to find that article, will you please point me at it? Sounds like a good read. Since I'm designing a campaign setting, I'd like to better understand the way the game is put together. That article on TheAlexandrian about 'calibrating your expectations' (Google it) was an excellent read.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm UTC

It was a forum post that seems to be lost to the mists of time at this point. Unless the dude who wrote it kept a copy.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:48 pm UTC

Okay, so I'm reading over Geist now that it finally released (I never felt like sorting through all the prerelease material to find the part where White Wolf deigned to explain anything relevant).

First thought: I like the fuck out of this game. It's not the "Wraith: The Oblivion" release that I had initially hoped/dreaded, but if I'm honest with myself such a release probably would've just pissed me off. This deals with a lot of the same stuff, and does it in a way I find interesting, and that works for me.

Second thought: Between this and the immortals book, they've basically chopped up and redivided all of the thematic and supernatural elements of oWoD Mummy, so I'm pretty sure that won't ever be happening. Disappointing. But like Wraith, an actual straight-redo of Mummy would've probably just irritated me when they fucked it up. Still.

Third thought: This game just makes Forsaken an even more redundant game. So now we have *actual* ghost busters, making the werewolves just....sin-eaters with fur and animism. Fantastic.

Fourth thought that basically no one will get: Huh. It strikes me that the main character from Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service is basically a Sin-Eater. Like, to the point of kindof ridiculous accuracy. To the point where you could run a game based on that comic with five mortals and a sin-eater, and never miss a beat.

Overall, I like this game about as much as I like Changeling, and unlike Changeling (which was very pretty and very striking but that I had no idea what to do with), it actually gives me ideas......

Okay, so, this means that for me the nWoD is batting 4 for 8. That's a better average than it was...
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Jessica » Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:53 pm UTC

I want my geist :(
My friends picked it up at gencon and haven't gotten it to me yet.

for me nWoD
vampire +
Werewolf ?
Mage +
Promethean -
Changeling +
Hunter -
Geist ?

And I guess the core book is a ++++
Still happy with WoD.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:20 pm UTC

I may have to actually acquire geist in hardcopy. Soon.

Anyway, for me it's:

Core Setting+
Vampire+
Werewolf-----
Mage-
Promethean-
Changeling+
Hunter-
Geist+
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Jessica » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:25 pm UTC

One day you'll see my way of thinking on mage. one day.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby henre » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:05 am UTC

Okay, dudes, my Gun Mage PrC so far. Just looking to probe the waters, as it were - feel free to speak your minds on balance, flava, or any other matters.

Spoiler:
Hit Die: d6
BAB: as Rogue
Good Saves: Reflex and Will

Requirements
BAB +3
Craft (alchemy) 5 ranks
Craft (metal casting) 5 ranks
Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells
Point Blank Shot
Proficiency with musket or pistol

Class features
Proficient with musket and pistol.
+1 arcane spellcaster level per Gun Mage level.
Spellshot: expend one spell slot to add +1d6 force damage per spell level (+1d3 for cantrips) to next firearm attack's damage. Bullets fired using Spellshot are treated as having +1 enhancement bonus per 3 class levels.
Bonus feats at levels 3, 6, 9. Choose from: Quick Draw, Quick Stow, Rapid Reload, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus. (Italics: musket or pistol only.)
Target Lock: gained at level 3. Spell-like ability illuminates nearest known hostiles within field of vision (no more hostiles than the character has class levels), granting +2 to hit. Penetrates any cover or concealment less than total. Lasts two turns per class level.

To my untrained eye, it looks balanced (or too weak, but definitely not too strong) so far, but I'm wondering about some details. Considering that the character taking this will probably be a 6th-level arcanist, his BAB and hp are likely to be so low as to be dangerous for a fighting class (which is what the Gun Mage is). I'm considering upping the hit die, and/or giving the Gun Mage a special BAB just for firearms (like how the Monk has a special BAB just for unarmed strikes and Monk weapons). I might also tone down the arcane spellcaster level bonus - maybe omit it every 3rd or 4th Gun Mage level - as I don't want a Gun Mage to cast spells quite as well as a pure-blood caster of the same level.

"Quick Stow" lets you stow a weapon as a free action, though I might want to house-rule Quick Draw to include this feature instead. The idea is to allow the Gun Mage to make full attacks using firearms (as long as he has enough loaded firearms on his person).

In my campaign, pistols have a load time of a full-round action, a move action (if the character either has Rapid Reload, or uses powder charges), or a free action (if the character both has Rapid Reload and uses powder charges). Muskets have a load time of two full-round actions, a full-round action (if the character either has Rapid Reload, or uses powder charges), or a move action (if the character both has Rapid Reload and uses powder charges).

The class is intended to allow an arcane caster to sacrifice some arcane class abilities (like familiars and bonus feats) in order to gain powerful ranged combat capabilities. It is not intended to be an Archmage-like expansion of spellcasting ability. It is more like the Arcane Archer, though I find the "cast spells through your weapon" mechanic trite and boring.

Thoughts?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:35 am UTC

It looks a little underpowered to me but I'd have to see it in play.


As for Geist, I was livid about a few things when I saw the demo, and it looked utterly dull. Now that I have the book in my hands and I've read through it, I frigging love the thing. The Synergy system isn't perfect, since, imo, replacing Morality/Humanity/whatever with something so different when so much of nWod's themes are based around that mechanic... See, I like Synergy, but I don't think it should REPLACE Morality. Then again, you can only have so many statlines before the game gets too complex, and I only just got my head properly around the keys/manifestations.

As for the other systems;
Vampire: I am currently running, in Chicago, which is a massive boon since it's my first realspace campaign, having detailed characters supplied saves me a lot of time. My Players are really getting into it, my main problem is that they can socially blitz almost any encounter I put in front of them, but that'll change once they're dealing more withother vampires... I hope.+

Werewolf: Haven't read, sounds a little unsure of it's place. ?

Mage:Apparently there's a whole thing about how old mage was good and New Mage is bad, and looking at the book, I can see why you wouldn't like it. For me, to enjoy Mage, you have to ignore most of the book. You have to ignore the art, half the Lore, and most of the Rote spells laid out. The Art is misleading, the Lore is kinda corny (although cool stuff can be done with it) and the Rote spells are amazingly boring.

It seriously astonishes me how boring they managed to make Mages look. I could definitely see myself enjoying it though. Unfortunately, since I'm the only one that can convince the others it's worthwhile, they all want me to run it... grumblegrumble... So yeah, + on the game, - on how White Wolf presented it.

Promethean: Looks like it'd be annoying to run.-

Changeling: Oh, hell yeah, how can White Wolf so consistently manage to make Faeries awesome?+

Hunter: Pretty good actually. I've heard stories abut Old World Hunter, but nWod seems to have it about right. A few of the Conspiracies are annoying (Namely, Lucifuge), and seem to kind of defeat the purpose, but it kinda works. Then again, I freaking love my Hunter and the RP we get is pretty solid.+

And the Core setting? +, of course.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:55 am UTC

See, I like Synergy, but I don't think it should REPLACE Morality.


See, I'm fine with it because Morality isn't supposed to be a good/evil meter on your character, it's supposed to represent what is having a degenerative or deleterious effect on your sanity. And it just so happens that their synergy or disharmony with their geist has a much more immediate effect on a sin-eater's psyche than their adherence to a standard moral code.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:08 am UTC

henre wrote:Okay, dudes, my Gun Mage PrC so far. Just looking to probe the waters, as it were - feel free to speak your minds on balance, flava, or any other matters.

Thoughts?
It's... not as interesting to me as the Gun Mage basic class from Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms.

Anyway, possibly better hit die, better BAB progression, reflex and will saves... but requires a feat and some crafting that your magic types may not normally get, and as far as an arcanist is concerned - don't they get neato stuff for being arcanists? ie - is what you're offering equal to what they'd get?

That said... yeah, if I was playing a Bard, I might look in to something like this.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:07 am UTC

I'm not sure if what I did to my players today was awesome or just pissed them off. I think one was pretty irritated and the others handled it. However, in my defense, they did march up to one of the major lords in the city, who happens to have pretty much the entire City Watch in his pocket, and say "We're taking you in for treason, despite having no real physical proof." It's not really his fault he laughed and said, "Yeah, look, here's why you're not going to do that."

I think I have crafted a recurring villain, so that's a plus. And besides, the PCs can't hope to actually be destroying long-term threats to major cities at levels 1-4.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:03 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
See, I like Synergy, but I don't think it should REPLACE Morality.


See, I'm fine with it because Morality isn't supposed to be a good/evil meter on your character, it's supposed to represent what is having a degenerative or deleterious effect on your sanity. And it just so happens that their synergy or disharmony with their geist has a much more immediate effect on a sin-eater's psyche than their adherence to a standard moral code.

No, I agree with that, I just think standard Morality should also be having an effect, not completely removed.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:22 pm UTC

You could go ahead and track it if you want, and just not have it assign derangements ever. Have it reflect the distancing and dehumanizing effect of their new state, that morality becomes a distant concern that they can bother with or not. Have them be aware of their moral state and also aware that they only really care in an intellectual, conscious way, if at all....
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:09 am UTC

Hmm, fair enough. I dunno, I think I look at the Morality systems in a slightly different way than the books portray, I need to do some more thinking about it really...

One thought I had was having people roll when they act in direct opposition to their virtue, this is in my Vampire campaign, in which I'm having a particular focus on Humanity.
The Ventrue is trying to stay at 7 Humanity, but he's using Dominate a lot, so I have to consider that (Which I haven't yet), He's also using far-reaching Dominates (And consistently getting exceptional successes so I can't bring the characters back the next night, dangit...).
I'm also considering taking the still-human younger sister of one PC and having her Sister's Sire, Embrace her and keep her at high Humanity (Ideally 10) as an Invictus Humanity dump. (Close Invictus families only need to use the highest humanity in the family for the purposes of determining Torpor-length)

Also my Hunter is Degenerating at a Rapid rate right now, so I've been putting a lot of thought into nWod's Morality systems recently...
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:45 am UTC

I think I also tend to look at things in light of the way the old world worked, where the only place morality was really tracked were those games that were about moral degeneration/reparation. Which is to say, Vampire was (mostly) about the slow loss of humanity, so they tracked humanity. Demon was (mostly) about the slow, laborious attempt to claw yourself back toward humanity and decency, so they tracked torment (which was basically just inverse humanity). And Mummy was about hope and decency in general, and wanted its characters to have an incentive to stay decent, so it tracked morality too, in the form of balance. And all the games that weren't about that (werewolf, mage, changeling [iirc], etc) didn't track it at all, because it wasn't considered terribly relevant, or at least not relevant enough to dedicate a game mechanic to it.

So given that, and given that I don't feel that geist is about moral degeneration in the same way vampire is, I'm not overly fussed about them failing to track it closely enough. It seems like the nWoD has only changed in the sense that, if it's not tracking *anything else*, it goes ahead and tracks morality ('humanity') by default because it has nothing better to do.

If I'm not mistaken, werewolf serves as an example of that in the nWoD: they have a "morality" trait that is mostly unrelated to human morality, and has more to do with their accord to werewolf ethics and taboos. It's something I'm considering exporting with heavy changes and possibly tying to gnosis in the oWoD game. And like with geist, I'd be tempted to track human morality alongside it, just to drive home exactly how tangential their moral code is to conventional "morality", and how much their companions even seem to value their willingness to transgress against the latter, sometimes...

But not really for any other reason.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:15 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:I'm also considering taking the still-human younger sister of one PC and having her Sister's Sire, Embrace her and keep her at high Humanity (Ideally 10) as an Invictus Humanity dump. (Close Invictus families only need to use the highest humanity in the family for the purposes of determining Torpor-length)


I can't see how "close" they'd be if you forced her sister to be a humanity dump. Not only that how do you force someone to stay at Humanity 10? Thats in the "nicer than Jesus" category

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby t_catt11 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:34 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:I think I have crafted a recurring villain, so that's a plus. And besides, the PCs can't hope to actually be destroying long-term threats to major cities at levels 1-4.


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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:51 pm UTC

Well, no, I intended him to survive the adventure intact. My players are used to...well, winning, though. So it was fun to see them slowly give up. (In reality, I think they probably could have killed him off or brought him in to a competing authority and gotten rid of him, but they got played.)
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Maseiken » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:37 am UTC

Chen wrote:
Maseiken wrote:I'm also considering taking the still-human younger sister of one PC and having her Sister's Sire, Embrace her and keep her at high Humanity (Ideally 10) as an Invictus Humanity dump. (Close Invictus families only need to use the highest humanity in the family for the purposes of determining Torpor-length)


I can't see how "close" they'd be if you forced her sister to be a humanity dump. Not only that how do you force someone to stay at Humanity 10? Thats in the "nicer than Jesus" category

Well the point is that they don't force her to be a Humanity dump, that's impossible, you can only try to sustain it. They Embrace a child and try to make damn sure she doesn't lose any of her innocence if they can help it. Second, they don't need the older sister to be close, it's just easier to keep the younger one happy if she's there. Third, it's not a particularly bad life being a Humanity dump, it's not like they feed off her Humanity or anything, all they need is for her to exist, and be related to them.

So the proposition is basically "Hey, how'd you like to live forever and never have bad thoughts or be particularly unhappy?", the only nasty part is "Oh, by the way, you'll totally be a vampire."

Thirdly, I said "Ideally" 10. That's clearly not sustainable, but if they could keep her as high as possible, it gives the whole family just that little edge they might need over the others.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:23 pm UTC

It sounds bad as a mechanical thing, but story-wise, a group of vampires keeping one of them completely clueless about the danse macabre and trying to make them as good a person as possible, hiding them from nasty things... much like the Buddha before he escaped his walls.

It wouldn't last, but the tragic downfall would make a brilliant story.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:45 pm UTC

It would sortof seem noble to the vampires involved, but the invictus being the high-class better-than-you motherfuckers that they are, other vampires could easily see her entire existence as an example of extreme privilege (oh how nice for you that your bloodline could take the effort to insulate you from reality...) and set out to ruin it on purpose.

They could even tell themselves they were doing her a favor, and shafting her family was just a neat side effect.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Jessica » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:52 pm UTC

Belial wrote:It would sort of seem noble to the vampires involved, but the invictus being the high-class better-than-you motherfuckers that they are, other vampires could easily see her entire existence as an example of extreme privilege (oh how nice for you that your bloodline could take the effort to insulate you from reality...) and set out to ruin it on purpose.

They could even tell themselves they were doing her a favor, and shafting her family was just a neat side effect.
heehee. That would be pretty awesome, if you ask me.
And is something I enjoy about vampire. They're all a bunch of dicks.

I can't wait to run my changeling game. I have players. I have some NPCs roughly sketched out, and I have some plot ideas. I want to run!! :D

I'm kind of having the jitters from coffee...
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Belial » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:23 pm UTC

Man, changeling game. Yes.

On another note, I just got to the manifestations chapter in Geist.

Holy *FUCK* Sin-Eater powers are weird. I didn't think it was possible to make a power setup more weird and interesting and complicated than sphere magic, but Dr Tran bites the bullet and he does it Geist manages it somehow.

I can't decide if I like it yet.
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